General and Gaming > Off Topic
The Comic Book Thread
burningdoom:
Yes, there were holograms, and speculators, and big events in the 90s. But people wanted to read them. Image was hot because Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee were incredible artists. Death of Superman was hot because it was a story comic fans were flocking to. Venom and Carnage overload was because fans wanted to see more Symbiotes.
Nowadays something gets hot because there's a leak of a movie coming out. Or because it's a first appearance of Spider-Man's cousin's girlfriend that he met once. It's not driven at all by comic fandom and popularity, but rather by speculation only. A lot of people could care less about the content inside.
burningdoom:
--- Quote from: Cartagia on August 04, 2020, 08:27:30 am ---
--- Quote from: Flashback2012 on August 04, 2020, 08:11:34 am ---
--- Quote from: burningdoom on August 03, 2020, 04:09:48 pm ---Many comic fans love the story, the artwork, the characters, the continuity, etc. and are readers through and through. Other comic fans just collect for cover art.
But in the last few years I've noticed that the comic market seems to be driven mostly by flippers. Those that speculate on key issues in the hopes that they will go up in value so they can sell those issues later for value.
--- End quote ---
The specullectors/flippers have been around in comics for a good 30 years now. The market was rife with these morons in the early to mid 90's when Image comics was the hot new publisher. The bottom fell out and they retreated back to the sports card market they unceremoniously ruined, then started making their way back in in the 2000's when the dust had settled. It's the same jackasses who are ruining the video game market as they have more money than sense and only see things as investments.
--- Quote from: burningdoom on August 03, 2020, 04:09:48 pm ---It seems like ANYTHING that might have any bearing on future stories spikes immediately. And as soon as T.V. or movie news leaks, anything related skyrockets. It's really frustrating as a real comic fan that just wants to read the stuff. But at the same time, I've sold a few issues in my collection that happen to go up to fund other stuff, so I'm not totally against it.
--- End quote ---
I literally just had this happen to me a couple of weeks ago. The latest issue of Catwoman supposedly has a first appearance of a new character and all of the flippers have snatched up every copy they can and dumped them on eBay. It doesn't help that DC switched away from Diamond to a new distributor and I have a semi-inept shopkeep at my LCS. Long story short, I didn't get that issue when I should have because of an ordering snafu and now I'm stuck either having a hole in my run or paying some asshat an inflated value. >:(
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I've been seeing a lot of it in Magic the Gathering and action figures lately - we discussed the NECA TMNT figures over in the toys thread. NECA has really boned the distribution on those.
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--- Quote ---It just feels like it's a lot. It feels like it's getting worse than it was in the 90s. At least in the 90s when a book was hot, it got hot to begin with because it was something comic fans wanted to read.
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You and I remember the 90's somewhat differently it seems. One of the things that wore me out to comics and caused me to take a decent sabbatical from them was the never-ending hype Hype HYPE for everything. It wasn't just DC and Marvel, it was Image and damn near everyone else. If they weren't trying to build the next universe, they were looking for ways to outdo themselves with the next bigger and badder thing. Superman "died" and Batman was "broken but let's make Green Lantern go crazy and make Aquaman angsty with a hook hand! X-Men are HUGE so let's give them 4 regular books + one-shots AND minis to boot. Spider-Man comes out almost weekly and since Venom is too popular let's make a truly evil symbiote with Carnage but let's not stop there and make copycats of our own characters! Dark Horse, Malibu, and Valiant all want to build universes. Image was...well it was a mess...
Besides the inter-company crossovers (of which there were plenty in the 90's), I had to pretty much go cold turkey on collecting regular series till the early to mid 2000's. :P
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I agree. Until we start seeing 5 variant covers, one with special hologram technology I don't think it will be quite like the 90s.
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We do. We see like 20 variants, now, and it doesn't even have to be a special issue. Every issue is like that. Then they get 2nd and 3rd printings with new variants. Variants are the new gimmick covers.
Flashback2012:
--- Quote from: burningdoom on August 04, 2020, 09:43:05 am ---Yes, there were holograms, and speculators, and big events in the 90s. But people wanted to read them. Image was hot because Todd McFarlane and Jim Lee were incredible artists. Death of Superman was hot because it was a story comic fans were flocking to. Venom and Carnage overload was because fans wanted to see more Symbiotes.
Nowadays something gets hot because there's a leak of a movie coming out. Or because it's a first appearance of Spider-Man's cousin's girlfriend that he met once. It's not driven at all by comic fandom and popularity, but rather by speculation only. A lot of people could care less about the content inside.
--- End quote ---
I realize this falls into semantics but it's COULDN'T care less. If they could care less, it means they would but I don't think that's what you were intending. ;)
Now, I get what you're saying and we're probably agreeing on our points. I think our tones would be better understood if we were having this discussion in person...lack of context can be killer on a forum. :P I'm just saying the speculation existed back then for a lot of the same reasons. Additionally, people might have been more invested (not materially anyway) because things like the Death of Superman was a pretty radical idea for the time. DC was solidly 2nd fiddle until Image came along and they were sliding into 3rd or worse. They absolutely needed that punch to the gut to stay relevant. His "death" succeeded in getting the attention of non comic fans but in the long term I think it hurt the industry more than it helped because once you kill him off then bring him back, where do you go from there? :o
Image certainly managed to catch lightning in a bottle. With A TON OF little help from Wizard Magazine, the Image founders were portrayed as the plucky underdogs who dared to tell Marvel NO. I mean, there's a shred of truth in that, Marvel thought it was too big to fail (something that Robert Kirkman recently pointed out still goes on to this day). They figured that these guys would fail and then come crawling back to Marvel with their tails tucked between their legs begging for the fealty they once had. Despite the delays they managed to succeed and Marvel even hired back Liefeld and Lee to help them spearhead the whole Heroes Reborn thing (to which we got super Chonkyboi Captain America from ;D). Amazing art might have been what made them succeed at first but they started putting out too much stuff (especially the Liefeld group) and the books had too many clone-artists who just weren't as good as the founders. Then the infighting started and they kicked Liefeld to the curb and by then I was pretty well done with Image. :P
Rambling aside, I think the frustration you're seeing is because superheroes have permanently been woven into the fabric of pop culture thanks largely in part to the MCU being the success it has been. On top of the jackasses who were there that essentially destroyed the sports card hobby, it's going to draw attention from a whole new sect of seedy individuals looking to capitalize. It doesn't help that there's nonsense like grading and "fans" out there who display their rare comics as decorations/conversation pieces.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about
I mean it's his/her/its money to do with however they want but that's not something I would do with such expensive books. I do have a dedicated Superman Shelf in an Ikea Detolf which has a facsimile copy of Action Comics #1 on display but that's barely worth the paper it's printed on. ;)
burningdoom:
Unpopular opinion:
Infinite Crisis was a great follow-up to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Well-planned set-up, legendary characters, old favorites return, awesome covers, epic scope, and brutal battles. My only complaint is that the main mini-series could have been longer.
Flashback2012:
--- Quote from: burningdoom on January 29, 2021, 01:08:21 pm ---Unpopular opinion:
Infinite Crisis was a great follow-up to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Well-planned set-up, legendary characters, old favorites return, awesome covers, epic scope, and brutal battles. My only complaint is that the main mini-series could have been longer.
--- End quote ---
Ehh...it was at least somewhat easier to follow than Final Crisis was. Of all of the things that've followed it such as Final Crisis, Multiversity, Dark Nights and Death Metal; Infinite Crisis felt the closest to an actual Crisis if that makes sense. Multiversity could have pulled it off but I think Grant Morrison got sidetracked and let's NOT get into DK or DK:DM. :P
I've been slowly ditching floppies for trades and at some point I wouldn't mind picking up the TPB of Infinite Crisis. I've got COIE and Final Crisis in trade already but I've not stumbled across IC in that format for a price I want to pay. :P
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