Suggestion = Multiple Pictures in 1 version

[turtlepm]

Hello, everyone
This is the first time I'm giving a Feedback/suggestion in this website.
I've been adding and editing covers and information to this website for, mostly, the European Users few months/years (idk) ago.

Now there is something that confuses me a lot. It's mostly about [EU] games, but it might apply to other regions.
First of all, personally, I hate when a game is already created but someone still replacing them by their "personal photos". It started with The Sexy Brutale and Rad Rodgers, now it's Ni No Kuni II. It had a standard cover, corresponding with every requirement: why did someone just replaced it for a home photo of the game with a Plastic reflecting to the camera? It might be cool for that person, but it's awful for people that want their collection here with the same "standard".

So, I'd like to suggest this: Only one game per edition and region. Let's face it: my portuguese edition with a Portugal symbol is the same edition from people in UK or Poland. The only difference is a sticker and I don't need to create a new item to this database just because I want to show you all that I own a portuguese edition of the game. And nobody needs to do that :/

Just an Example:
God of War [EU] PS4
God of War - Limited Edition [EU] PS4
God of War - Collector's Edition [EU] PS4

These are the only 3 versions confirmed (til now) for PS4 in Europe. Each European country has its own sticker, so if each user from this site created a different game of their own country, we would have 90 different variations of these 3 games. North America doesn't have this problem, as far as I know.

Therefore, it would be interesting that a "standard" game has multiple covers inside it and Each user could select the one he prefers to show in his collection. If that happened, I could, for instance, upload a Portuguese cover to the database (instead creating a new one), and select it to show in my profile collection without affecting others collection.
Edit: Forgot to mention - Same goes for PEGI or other type of rating used in Europe, again, same thing, different sticker (but I don't buy games not being PEGI lol)


For last:
lately I've seen people creating DVD MOVIES in the database, into Swag. Am I mistaken or this section is ONLY for DVD related to Videogames? Or are you guys accepting personal DVD collection into this database?

What do you guys think about that? And specially, what Administrators and other responsables think about this and how (im)possible would it be to do?

Thank you all for your time

[tripredacus]

Your idea is sound, but the method you outline is not the correct one. Like it or not, we will have variations and/or different entries for the different countries. Also, just because you personally have no care about whether your game has a different language on it, or has a label, does not mean that no one does. There may be a collector who wants all of the games on that console including the different versions, or perhaps someone who collects a game or game series and wants the same thing. So we offer this ability to the users of the site and I don't see that going away anytime soon.

What can be changed is how the information is delivered. I had been putting off creating a complete logic chart for how such a system would work and also I do not know how exactly the data is constructed... It may not be possible without a full re-create and/or many hours of work.

BUT I am fully aware that collectors that have the need or want for the detailed variations to be covered in the database (and in the collecting world in general) is very small in comparison to those who just want 1 game. And I am also aware that in EU, some collectors would just get any version that supports their language and consider it to be the same. For example, a person who collects English language games could buy most of the non-UK editions of games because most just have the English language game inside of region specific packaging. There is a similar scenario in the US and it is why Canadian releases are not covered that well. There is also this problem relating to Australian collectors, where their games are typically EU releases with labels on them or just different covers.

So the appropriate way would be to ask the user what type of collector they are. There could be three options, and all three options would deliver information differently. For example:
- just games: would show one game per region and you could only add the game into your collection, but not the individual parts
- just games of a specific language: would show one game per region with the specified language, including the individual parts.
- show everything

So basically the idea is to not remove the things that you don't care about, but give an option to hide those things from you.

EDIT: An alternate stop-gap (for EU at least) would be to split EU category into separate countries.

It is feasible, but would require some changes that I'd like to see. The ability to select release countries to add to an item, and the ability to add languages to an item. If this information is present, it would allow for us to do more advanced things.

For movies, they should only be specifically related to games. If you see any entries where you think the item should not be in the db, put into the Listing Errors thread. You can also post into there any issues you want to bring up relating to item images.

[turtlepm]

Thank for your feedback

Don't get me wrong, but... allow me to disagree, in part, some stuff you pointed.
I understand when you say that I may not care about something, but that was an example I gave. The point is: do I or anyone else have to create a single game every time someone changes information and/or the picture of the game, just because we don't like that "item" in our collection? If someone creates an item that already exists but for a strict country, it doesn't affect me; but if I submitted a "Rad Rodgers" or "Ni No Kuni II" and someone simply uploads his own photo (with plastic) because that's the way s/he likes, that affects me and everyone that don't want that kind of "image". We are obliged to create a new item in the database.

Back to my previous example, if this "thing" I'm proposing existed, I would use portuguese covers. I don't use them now because I want to know how many people have that game in Europe, that particular "standard" or "collector's" editions. It would be easier if someone adds their own country in a standard item and each of them select which they want to show in their profile. They own the same version in multiple languages? No problem, users are already allowed to add the same item in their collection as many times they want - now just open each of them and select the picture of the version you already have

Guess this last paragraph answers about your alternative to create different lists to every country: you would need to create all games in this db x30. And personally, it would create another unnecessary tab under each console: PlayStation 4 [EU][UK]; PlayStation [EU][PT]; PlayStation 4 [NA].

Attention: I'm just suggesting, it might not be worth it or not interesting, but I thought I had to share this. I spend some time weekly adding stuff to the db and editing confirmed information, because I do like your site and concept. But sometimes I see stuff being uploaded in a way like "why is it here?".
I apologize for my honesty, if I said something in a bad way, and thank you for your feedback, once again.

[tripredacus]

So your complaint is that, for example this Rad Rogers entry:
https://vgcollect.com/item/140698

The item pictures show the game sealed? And we know it is sealed because you can see the security strip in the image.

We have no requirement that the box images must show the item sealed, with exception to items that have a label on the outside of the plastic. In this case, it would appear this game does not have any such label. Anyone can try to upload a better picture, but it must be of the exact item. A stock photo would not be allowed int he case of Rad Rogers because a stock photo is not better than an actual photo.

If we added country categories for EU, they would only be for non-UK releases. There would be no duplicates in the db anywhere, so no items would have multiple entries.

[metshael]

All this talk just makes me remember about the suggestion of nullifidian and the more i think about it the more i think it would be the best idea to make the database less "crowded". A parent item where all variants and editions can be added, a "default item" can be added to a collection for people who don't care about what variant they have and all items would still exist, just not showing directly in the database only in the parent items and in collections (going for a system like gamefaqs maybe, with item number, barcode and release date, but each line would still redirect to the child item, we can even go to a more developed page with a synopsis and screenshots on the top, maybe even let the users be able to write review... but yeah all of this would require a lot of work ).

For last:
lately I've seen people creating DVD MOVIES in the database, into Swag. Am I mistaken or this section is ONLY for DVD related to Videogames? Or are you guys accepting personal DVD collection into this database?

Are you maybe talking about the movies i've added (eXistenZ, Ultimate Game, Gamebox 1.0 and Tron) ? They're not directly based on a video-game but their themes is related to video-games in general and i thought it was accepted since we already had movies like Gamer, Grandma's Boy or all the others Tron variants already in the database. I'm glad the subject is addressed before i start checking the anime side of my collection (a lot of series related to video-games directly comes into my mind: .Hack, Sword Art Online, Log Horizon, Overlord... and i don't even want to start thinking about what have been created based on visual novels: Kanon, Clannad, Steins;Gate, Fate...).

So basically what others users think we should accept in the "Swag - Promo Videos/ Movies" section of the database ? For me, well... i've already added movies not directly based on a video-game so my thoughts are simple: anything related to video-games can be accepted. But like always i will follow the community and if those items need to be deleted i wouldn't mind  .

[turtlepm]

A stock photo would not be allowed int he case of Rad Rogers because a stock photo is not better than an actual photo.

I don't know if a "stock" photo is the same "stock" photos across 99% of the database images: downloaded images from internet or scans of the oficial releases.
This is another game I submitted (not 100% sure): https://vgcollect.com/item/123666
- Rad Rodgers was "acceptable" compared to this. You want this kind of pictures for each game in the db?

All this talk just makes me remember about the suggestion of nullifidian and the more i think about it the more i think it would be the best idea to make the database less "crowded".

From what I red from that original topic, what I'm asking is not something like Gamefaqs. You can still add different region games (NA, EU, JAP, AU), the only thing I'm saying is to make only one "default" for each version of the game (Collector's, Limited, Gold, Standard) for each region. Gamefaqs gathers all information in only one default page, whatever region, whatever version of the game.

They're not directly based on a video-game but their themes is related to video-games in general

Ok, now I understand why they exist  It's not something I would add to my collection on this site, honestly, specially (again) with "FR" or "PL" on it I never watched ExistenZ and never knew it was a videogame related/themed. If it was Stay Alive or Jumanji, I would get it, but if some people like me don't know any of these movies, they might think "ohh I can add my 1000 DVD and 500 BR collection here too" 

[metshael]

From what I red from that original topic, what I'm asking is not something like Gamefaqs. You can still add different region games (NA, EU, JAP, AU), the only thing I'm saying is to make only one "default" for each version of the game (Collector's, Limited, Gold, Standard) for each region. Gamefaqs gathers all information in only one default page, whatever region, whatever version of the game.

Well... like desocietas said on the other thread, the goal of the site is to catalog all variants so i still think that idea would be the best way to please everyone. One default version (the parent item) in the database that anyone can add to their collection if they want and all the variants inside the parent item so that anyone who want to add their own variants can add it to their collection. But hey that's just my thoughts 

Ok, now I understand why they exist  It's not something I would add to my collection on this site, honestly, specially (again) with "FR" or "PL" on it I never watched ExistenZ and never knew it was a videogame related/themed. If it was Stay Alive or Jumanji, I would get it, but if some people like me don't know any of these movies, they might think "ohh I can add my 1000 DVD and 500 BR collection here too" 

Well... that's something i collect and since it's related to video game i think it has a place here too, and one day if people start to add movies non-related to video game we just have to explain it to them that we only accept video games related movies and we will delete the movies they added. I also think it's great for another reason: to make the others users discover movies related to their hobby they didn't knew before, i never watched Grandma's Boy for exemple and you didn't knew about eXistenZ (you should check it if you can it's a pretty good movie by the way  ).

[tripredacus]

I don't know if a "stock" photo is the same "stock" photos across 99% of the database images: downloaded images from internet or scans of the oficial releases.
This is another game I submitted (not 100% sure): https://vgcollect.com/item/123666
- Rad Rodgers was "acceptable" compared to this. You want this kind of pictures for each game in the db?

Having a picture is better than no picture. If you don't like how the image looks, take a better picture of it and replace it.

In regards to making a default game, who gets to choose? Why does one get to be default and not another? Then people will ask, why is this the default and not this other one?

The better choice is to use the parent entry as previously suggested OR allowing the user to choose what is chosen for themselves. Forcing a default view, even if voted on by the users, for everyone would not be an ideal solution.

[Agozer]

My two cents for what it's worth:

-Some picture is better than no picture at all. However, if an entry has a "home photo", it should be replaced with  proper scan (no glare, wonky cropping, orientation, etc.) at some point in the future, and as quickly as possible.

-One game, one entry: I have to agree with triredacus. Who gets to decide? Yes, you could make the argument that the standard for EU should be the Uk release. Even if it's put to a vote, there will be those who are not happy with the decision. I like the idea that VGCollect goes out of its way to list every specific version of a given game, even though the differences are miniscule at times, and that those are indivudual entries.

Yes, North America doesn't have this problem, for obvious reasons.

[mastafafik]

I don't know if a "stock" photo is the same "stock" photos across 99% of the database images: downloaded images from internet or scans of the oficial releases.
This is another game I submitted (not 100% sure): https://vgcollect.com/item/123666
- Rad Rodgers was "acceptable" compared to this. You want this kind of pictures for each game in the db?

Having a picture is better than no picture. If you don't like how the image looks, take a better picture of it and replace it.

In regards to making a default game, who gets to choose? Why does one get to be default and not another? Then people will ask, why is this the default and not this other one?

The better choice is to use the parent entry as previously suggested OR allowing the user to choose what is chosen for themselves. Forcing a default view, even if voted on by the users, for everyone would not be an ideal solution.

I made those photos the best I can at that time and replace them, because stock photos of those games were not correct and I couldn't find better on the internet.
@ Turtlepm  If you have better quality photos and CORRECT ones, you can edit those entries and for sure we will approve them.

[turtlepm]

Okay, there are some things that are misunderstood here 

1. If "stock photo" is the abstention of picture (I don't know, never heard that word before), sure, any picture/image is better.

2. About uploading a better picture:



The picture on the left was the downloaded image I got for this game and uploaded here.
Weeks later after released, someone bought the game, took a picture of his selled game and replaced it.
Now, considering these kind of images are spread through all internet with great resolution, aren't these better than any other photo taken with a camera?

3.

In regards to making a default game, who gets to choose? Why does one get to be default and not another? Then people will ask, why is this the default and not this other one?

I already talked about it before or my english is terrible or I'm being misunderstood again 

Nobody has to decide anything. There are "default" versions from creators or publishers.

Same example in "Playstion 4 [EU]":
God of War
God of War - Limited Edition
God of War - Collector's Edition

Now, each of these will have inside their page a downloaded picture for each country or rating (like PEGI).
If I have the portuguese collector's edition of God of War, I'll use the God of War - Collector's Edition [EU] item to upload my portuguese cover and add to my collection. You're french and you own the same version of the game? Ok, use God of War - Collector's Edition [EU] item as well and upload your french cover there, instead of creating a new Item called "God of War - Collector's Edition [FR]".
Now, if each of these Default item have their own tab to upload a picture for each country and rating, the user can choose (select from a menu or button like those to ADD Collection/wishlist) which Picture he wants to show in their collection.

Back to "The Sexy Brutale" image:
Default picture sould be the official PEGI english version of the game, the first one being shown after announced (the Left Image above). After it's release, people can upload their photos or scan their covers (the Right Image Above). This includes the same version of the Default picture, just like both Images above). Therefore people can choose what picture they want to show on their profile in a click of a button: a default internet cover or a picture taken of their games.

[tripredacus]

The Sexy Brutale image example you used is incorrect because it does not have the square part found on the actual release indicating it comes with a CD. This is why the stock photo is allowed to be replaced in this situation, because it does not accurately represent the actual physical item.

Regarding your other point, it is a "usability" point and doesn't actually effect the database itself. Currently, the site is not able to do what you ask for, so we will take it in as a suggestion.

We would still have individual entries for all the different localised items, whether you like it or not. And I think at this point, you won't convince any of us here to do otherwise. But what you ultimately are asking for is the ability to hide these extra things, so that you can just search for God of War Collector's Edition, and then pick the one you have. Instead of searching for that game and seeing 7 different versions all at once. This is a usability request and I think a lot of others are thinking you want us to just get rid of all the French or Spanish games or something.

When we get to the time when we can do the work to make a different and/or personalized user experience, we will see about making something like that, but for now, we have to make the best of what we've got.

[turtlepm]

Sure, I’m suggesting something to be considered, not to be ready tomorrow

And no, you don’t need to get rid of data already created, it’s just and addition of buttons to allow us to choose what’s the cover we want to use. Cause, like I said before (and this time my personal preference), I rather have the The Sexy Brutale cover I first uploaded without that square (in low resolution that is displayed in the page of the game) than an uploaded photo. I mean, the user that uploaded that photo could scan the cover and uploaded... that plastic is just disturbing to my eyes - yes, I’m OCD in some points.

But yeah, I’ll be waiting for a new visual custom profile that would be cool