VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => Hardware and Tech => Topic started by: evilnick on September 30, 2014, 02:14:08 pm
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Okay, before I get into this, let me illustrate my current set-up.
Panasonic Plasma TV in the center.
Sharp CRT TV off to the side.
Much shelving.
There is an Onkyo receiver set up, but there aren't enough ports on it for everything. So there are three splitters plugged into different ports in the back of the receiver. One splitter shares 16-bit and 32/64 bit systems. One shares a variety of systems, and another shares HD consoles in order to split the audio to the surround sound.
Older consoles (all Atari, TG-16, NES, etc) are routed to the CRT TV and use RF switches.
None of this crap is ideal. What I'd truly like would be a "super splitter" or a receiver with, literally, and unrealistic 40 or so ports on the back. But again, that's unrealistic.
How do others handle having such a multitude of consoles ready for playing? The Onkyo receiver is bizarrely fussy these days. Can I build something like a super splitter that splits HDMI, Component, and AV cables? My solution and set-up is admittedly half-assed, but it works. However, it creates untold levels of clutter, and can take several minutes to get, say, the Genesis powered up and running.
Anyone have any suggestions? Are there bigger splitters out there than just the 4-port ones?
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I use a JVC JX-S700, which has seven inputs and four outputs (though I only use five / two of those.) Since it's powered, there's no signal loss or degradation. Ideally you'd get a few of those, plug their output into a single splitter, then run that. But it might be a bit too costly.
I got mine for cheap a few years ago, but these can sell for quite a bit of cash nowadays.
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I'd be delighted to help you optimize your setup. I just love efficiency.
If you would please give me the model numbers of your receiver and televisions as well as a list of everything you want to hook up, I can give you some solutions.
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I'd be delighted to help you optimize your setup. I just love efficiency.
If you would please give me the model numbers of your receiver and televisions as well as a list of everything you want to hook up, I can give you some solutions.
Wow, outstanding. Well, first, I do have a weird issue with my Onkyo TX-SR606 in that it does not smoothly switch between the audio. As in, I press, say, the "Game" button to switch to the stuff plugged into the "Game" port, but it will not switch unless I head into some menus. It's possible maybe, that, given all the splitters and stuff hooked up, it just takes the signal a while to go through, and my messing around just takes up time. This might actually be one of the most cobbled-together set-ups you'll ever imagine.
There are three splitters, two standard def, and AV, one HD. I have my three HD consoles hooked up with component cables rather than HDMI (so the picture isn't quite as sharp), and they are in the other HD splitter. The Onkyo has, I think, 5 HDMI inputs, but I'm not using them, because the Onkyo outputs to a DVD Home Theater system, and all the audio goes through there. So, all audio and video into the Onkyo, then all audio out from there to the DVD Home Theater, and all video out to the TV in one of three (might be two) channels.
My Onkyo receiver has no speakers of it's own, and was purchased used from a Pawn Shop. I've often wondered if it may be faulty.
What I've most wanted was a way to reduce the number of switches to reduce clutter, possible signal interference, and to make switching between things faster and easier. Ideally, I'd love if everything could go through the receiver, but it just doesn't have enough ports.
At one point, I was annoyed by the lack of ports on these things, then realized that, "oh right, most people aren't trying to cram 40 game consoles into this at once." I'm wondering if I can do HDMI into the receiver, then audio out to the DVD home theater, and remove one set of switches entirely. I actually have no shortage of HDMI cables. I worked seasonally at Best Buy one year and made sure to load up on HDMI cables while I could still get 'em for $3.
I would also (and I may be getting greedy at this point) love it if I could get my far older systems to run on the HD. The 2600, 5200, Master System, TG-16, etc. Weirdly, the the Jaguar is also hooked up in this way, but those are all on a CRT television next to the whole thing.
Currently wired through my beastly set-up:
SNES, Genesis, Xbox 1 (the original one), X360, Dreamcast, 3DO, GameCube, N64, PS3 (the PS2 gets unplugged when the PS3 is used, so it's just sitting there, not plugged in at all), PS1, Wii U. Offhand, I'm not even sure where the Saturn is hooked up. I have no plans to remove the old CRT entirely because, well, what if I want to play old light-gun games? I need that TV, then!
Going to the CRT:
NES, TG-16, 2600, 5200, 7800, Jaguar, Master System, possibly the Saturn. I'd like the option to put these on the plasma TV, but only have RF switches for them, which--especially for the older ones--does not appear to work. It was like the TV didn't know what to do with so few pixels the time I plugged the 2600 into it.
There is also a Neo-Geo X here, but that only has an HDMI cable.
There is also the aforementioned DVD Home Theater system (a Magnavox, 5-disc changer, which may be ready for retirement), a VCR not currently plugged in, and an Aiwa record player. Yes, a record player. With the vinyl Bioshock soundtrack sitting on it. I am potentially getting a PS4 later this year, and will need to accommodate that as well.
There's the mouthful. After being shown the JVC JX-S700 up top with the first response, I'm looking into possibly getting that, or a bigger one if they make a bigger one.
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I'm looking at some 8-port selectors online, but holy crap are they ever pricey. Still considering, though. The component one is a bit unnecessary, but the 8-port AV would work really well.
Currently, my splitters are all 4-port to allow for 12 devices to be wired into my receiver.
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Assuming my assumptions are correct, I believe you can hook up everything in a much better way with what you have on hand. This is only a preliminary idea, mind you. I welcome your feedback and revisions to my plan. It looks something like this:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/sjkyiuz3xmxg2t1/setup.png)
First, the receiver needs to be the last stop all signals make before going to the TVs. The receiver should be connected to the plasma with a single HDMI cable, nothing more. This is because whether you know it or not, you have an extremely nice receiver. It can upscale composite video so that it looks nice on a flatscreen. However, you aren't getting that because having that POS Magnavox DVD player between the receiver and the TV is ruining everything. The receiver connection to the CRT should be as follows:
composite monitor out ---> video in
zone 2 line out ------------> audio in
Then make sure zone 2 is on. This way, you can send any non-HDMI signal to either TV and still get sound.
The SNES, NES, Genesis, Xbox, Dreamcast, 3DO, Gamecube, N64, PS2, Ps1, and Saturn can all be hooked to your selector boxes via composite video. I assume you have the cables to do so. The three selector boxes can then be connected to the GAME/TV, CBL/SAT, and VCR/DVD inputs on the receiver. This will allow you to play any of these systems by first selecting it on its selector box and then selecting the input on the receiver that corresponds to that box.
The WiiU, PS3, Neo-Geo X, and PS4 can be connected to the HDMI inputs on the receiver. The DVD player can be connected to the bottom of a garbage can. The Xbox is a better DVD player than any Magnavox junk pile.
The TurboGrafx, 2600, 5200, 7800, Jaguar, and Master System can be daisy-chained to the back of either TV with RF connectors. The TG16 and Jag had optional bits that allowed composite out, but I will assume you don't have them. The difficulty you described in connecting these systems to the plasma TV sound to me like a faulty cable. I know that they will play on that TV; as a matter of fact the Atari 2600 looks weirdly great on flatscreens.
The record player can be connected to the CD input on the receiver. You will be able to listen to it through the CRT, I guess. That is very stupid, but it brings me to my next point:
Get some speakers.Having speakers will make the dumb zone 2 connections and turntable-via-TV idiocy unnecessary. Plus, as I said before, your receiver is extremely nice. Not utilizing its full capabilities is a crying shame, and its best feature is ass-kicking audio. I use an Onkyo TX-DS838 myself. It does 5.1 surround, and now that I have that I could never go back to anything else. Yours can do 7.1 surround sound. Hook that beast UP.
Here's a link to your receiver's instruction manual, just in case you want to give it a thumb-through: http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-sr606_manual_e.pdf (http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-sr606_manual_e.pdf)
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I was going to draw a picture, but was working on something else while writing that post. Nice job!
So, it looks like my DVD player may be the biggest problem in this set-up. The DVD Player has it's own speakers, would I be able to plug those into the Onkyo? That is probably something you cannot know offhand, so I might just have to try it and see if the speakers can handle the receiver. At one time, my focal point on my set-up was always incorporating a multi-disk DVD player home theater system, but watching actual DVDs has diminished greatly in recent years making this thing almost as obsolete as the VCR.
This has evolved over time from using an old Aiwa stereo that had AV inputs to this beastly set-up with old ideas still tied in where they don't need to be.
Your sketch very helpful, so thanks for that. To simplify, everything should go into the receiver, the receiver should output to the TV with a single HDMI cable, all speakers go to the receiver.
It does currently use Zone 2, but I have never understood why that works, and the manual you found is way bigger than the one I found a couple years ago. I clearly should've kept searching as I didn't realize I grabbed some small "summarized" manual. Man, what the hell did I download?
I do not have composite cables for the pre-HD consoles, just AV right now. My Best Buy mention earlier covered largely generic cables, and one Wii component cable which made the Wii look surprisingly good on an HD screen. It was still 480, but it was crisp. Daisy-chaining the old RF Switches on the legacy consoles (and a lot of these cables may have individual problems) seems to result in signal loss.
Man, thanks for all the help. I wasn't certain if the problem was the receiver or the DVD/home theater, and this indicates it's very likely the DVD player.
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If you really wanted to spend a ton of money, there are companies out there that build selectors with tons of inputs and outputs. They are made for professional use at TV stations, etc. I can't think of any manufacturer names off the top of my head though.
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The DVD player's speakers are compatible with the receiver, but I sincerely doubt that they will last very long plugged into it. Your receiver is monstrously powerful, and those cruddy little Magnavox speakers will probably do little more than die screaming.
The best piece of advice I can give you is to spend your money on some nice speakers and a powered subwoofer rather than a bunch of expensive selector boxes you don't really need. Having a receiver like that with no decent speakers is like having a Corvette in the garage with no wheels on it. You are really missing out.
and yes, daisy chaining destroys the signal if taken too far. I tend to just put the more important consoles at the front of the chain and not worry about stuff like the 2600 looking bad because it always does, but if you want it to be the best it can, you can pick up an RF signal booster somewhere. They made a ton of them back in the 80's, so they're not hard to find at thrift stores or on eBay.
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The DVD player's speakers are compatible with the receiver, but I sincerely doubt that they will last very long plugged into it. Your receiver is monstrously powerful, and those cruddy little Magnavox speakers will probably do little more than die screaming.
The best piece of advice I can give you is to spend your money on some nice speakers and a powered subwoofer rather than a bunch of expensive selector boxes you don't really need. Having a receiver like that with no decent speakers is like having a Corvette in the garage with no wheels on it. You are really missing out.
and yes, daisy chaining destroys the signal if taken too far. I tend to just put the more important consoles at the front of the chain and not worry about stuff like the 2600 looking bad because it always does, but if you want it to be the best it can, you can pick up an RF signal booster somewhere. They made a ton of them back in the 80's, so they're not hard to find at thrift stores or on eBay.
I'm most likely going to have to use the Magnavox speakers to start with, and be prepared for their imminent demise via the receiver. Might be nice to actually be able to hear them as it is. For some reason, past the level 25 volume setting, the Magnavox DVD player decides "this is hard work, making sound" and emits a whirring noise that I assume are fans having to deal with pushing higher volumes to the speakers. I'll keep my eye out for some speaker deals in the meantime.
This will either be a project I start tonight after work, or this weekend with my kid. Removing the DVD player will also give me a new shelf for consoles.
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Any Bang for the Buck AV receiver recommendation? JVC JX-S700 has been getting a little inconsistent in price and finding it.
My current Set up is PS3(Hdmi), 360(Blue, Green cord), OG Xbox, Wii, Snes,Nes (Possible replacement with Retron 5), and when I get more space I'm hoping to add top loader (If any switcher/receiver have any RF), Dreamcast, Ps2 and Genesis.
Current: (1 Hdmi, 1 (whatever the green Blue Cord are called, I'm assuming they're somewhat of a HDMI kind of cord, 4 (RYW).
Future: (2 HDMI, 1 360 Cord, 5(RYW).
Nothing fancy but something to get the job done without degrading sound/image.
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Your best choice of selector box or receiver will depend on your television. If you have two HDMI inputs and one component input (that's the red, blue and green cords) available at the back of your TV, just use them and any composite (yellow, white, red) selector box you find on Amazon.
If your TV inputs are inadequate and you would require a selector that accommodates HDMI, component and composite, I suggest getting a better TV.
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Your best choice of selector box or receiver will depend on your television. If you have two HDMI inputs and one component input (that's the red, blue and green cords) available at the back of your TV, just use them and any composite (yellow, white, red) selector box you find on Amazon.
If your TV inputs are inadequate and you would require a selector that accommodates HDMI, component and composite, I suggest getting a better TV.
Alright, The TV is adequate but I was trying to make it more convenient. Do any selector box have any RF? The RF on my Tv is not working correctly.
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Again, I suspect that the true culprit is not the TV, but rather a faulty cable. These things (http://atariace.com/images/atariace.com/nintendo/images/nes_rf_adapter.jpg) have a high failure rate, so if you're daisy chaining them be sure to test each one beforehand.
And yes, there are RF selector boxes, but don't bother with them. You want something like this instead. (http://www.pctstore.com/v/vspfiles/photos/PCTNGNII3TB-2.jpg) Get yourself a handful of these bad boys (http://files.cablewholesale.com/hires/30x3-03220.jpg) to go with them and you can ditch those lousy RF adapters altogether.
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Again, I suspect that the true culprit is not the TV, but rather a faulty cable. These things (http://atariace.com/images/atariace.com/nintendo/images/nes_rf_adapter.jpg) have a high failure rate, so if you're daisy chaining them be sure to test each one beforehand.
And yes, there are RF selector boxes, but don't bother with them. You want something like this instead. (http://www.pctstore.com/v/vspfiles/photos/PCTNGNII3TB-2.jpg) Get yourself a handful of these bad boys (http://files.cablewholesale.com/hires/30x3-03220.jpg) to go with them and you can ditch those lousy RF adapters altogether.
Oh geez, why didn't I think about this for my RF consoles? I have several coax splitters.
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The DVD player's speakers are compatible with the receiver, but I sincerely doubt that they will last very long plugged into it. Your receiver is monstrously powerful, and those cruddy little Magnavox speakers will probably do little more than die screaming.
I have rewired the majority of my set-up. The Magnavox speakers work fine in the Onkyo receiver so far. I'm going to have to do a bit more work, but I'm encountering an issue my personal troubleshooting can't address:
I have only two HDMI devices plugged in: The Wii U and the PS3. The receiver can only seem to handle one at once if they're both plugged in, it will always show the Wii U, not the PS3.
The Wii U is plugged into the DVD HDMI port and the PS3 is plugged into the VCR HDMI port. This doesn't seem to matter as I switched which port they both went to, and still the Wii U worked, but the PS3 did not.
I plugged the PS3 directly into my TV and it's settings are all correct (after I remembered what a pain in the ass it is to switch between component and HDMI on these things). I'm not even sure how to look this up online via Onkyo's support. Everything else works, and as of right now, I'm going to have to remember to shut off the N64 and Genesis in a few minutes.
Both the DVD and VCR HDMI ports are set to automatically recognize a connection, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Any thoughts on this one?
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You must manually assign each HDMI port to an input selector before using them, so make sure the HDMI ports are assigned properly. Pages 22 and 43 of the instruction manual contain the information pertinent to this procedure.
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You must manually assign each HDMI port to an input selector before using them, so make sure the HDMI ports are assigned properly. Pages 22 and 43 of the instruction manual contain the information pertinent to this procedure.
I was sure I had done this before I noticed it was automatic. Is it possible that it's not saving these settings? I suppose the other option is that after I set them, I accidentally set them to automatic. I'll check it again.
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Sounds like you're after a matrix switch. We use them all the time at the TV station I work at. We were getting ready to replace our current unit with a larger one (a 128x128, all HD) that was going to run almost $90k. But you certainly don't need something that big. Looking at some of the drawings, a 24x2 composite/analog audio would do nicely (it would probably end up being something like a 24x12 but you don't have to use all of the outputs). With nearly all of the TV stations and high-end conference rooms moving away from analog you can pick up used matrix switches for a fraction of the cost they once were. One thing to keep in mind is that the audio block on these things tend to be screw terminals or pinch terminals; you'd want to build an adapter that would take the RCA plug to the bare wires so you don't mess up your console cables. Autopatch, Extron, Evertz, Kramer, Pesa and Utah Scientific all make matrix switches. A quick jaunt through eBay showed stuff ranging from $20 to ~$5k depending on configuration. You'll want to steer clear of the HD-SDI and SDI stuff (not compatible with composite video without special adapters). Might even be worth a call to some of your local TV stations. Sometimes they have a bunch of obsolete gear sitting around in engineering that they haven't disposed of yet.
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Sounds like you're after a matrix switch. We use them all the time at the TV station I work at. We were getting ready to replace our current unit with a larger one (a 128x128, all HD) that was going to run almost $90k. But you certainly don't need something that big. Looking at some of the drawings, a 24x2 composite/analog audio would do nicely (it would probably end up being something like a 24x12 but you don't have to use all of the outputs). With nearly all of the TV stations and high-end conference rooms moving away from analog you can pick up used matrix switches for a fraction of the cost they once were. One thing to keep in mind is that the audio block on these things tend to be screw terminals or pinch terminals; you'd want to build an adapter that would take the RCA plug to the bare wires so you don't mess up your console cables. Autopatch, Extron, Evertz, Kramer, Pesa and Utah Scientific all make matrix switches. A quick jaunt through eBay showed stuff ranging from $20 to ~$5k depending on configuration. You'll want to steer clear of the HD-SDI and SDI stuff (not compatible with composite video without special adapters). Might even be worth a call to some of your local TV stations. Sometimes they have a bunch of obsolete gear sitting around in engineering that they haven't disposed of yet.
I didn't even realize anything like this actually existed. But it makes sense for something like TV stations. Man, they're pricey. Do you happen to have any model numbers to make the search easier, by chance? This would do well to augment the improvements I'm making to my setup from byron.
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You must manually assign each HDMI port to an input selector before using them, so make sure the HDMI ports are assigned properly. Pages 22 and 43 of the instruction manual contain the information pertinent to this procedure.
I was sure I had done this before I noticed it was automatic. Is it possible that it's not saving these settings? I suppose the other option is that after I set them, I accidentally set them to automatic. I'll check it again.
I don't think it's saving the settings. When I re-enter them, the default settings are shown, not the ones I set.
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According to Google, confusion over un-saved settings is not an uncommon problem. I'm willing to bet the receiver is not at fault, but I'll be damned if I can tell you what the solution is.
This sounds like a job for... Customer Support!
(http://ronnieherrema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Businessman-Superhero.png)
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According to Google, confusion over un-saved settings is not an uncommon problem. I'm willing to bet the receiver is not at fault, but I'll be damned if I can tell you what the solution is.
This sounds like a job for... Customer Support!
(http://ronnieherrema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Businessman-Superhero.png)
Ha, I suppose that's my next step. Thanks again with all the advice so far.
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I discovered that the Onkyo receivers, like mine, have a defect in them that essentially causes it to lose the ability to switch between inputs smoothly, in in really bad cases, prevents it entirely. I may be able to replace some capacitors inside on the HDMI board myself, get it repaired, or graduate to a newer receiver. I've had this one for about 4 years.
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That's a tough break, I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully the HDMI board is reasonably accessible and you can fix it yourself. If you've never done it before, replacing capacitors is no big deal.
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I found a YouTube video showing how to do it, because YouTube shows us how to do literally everything these days, and I know people who have soldered before.
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On an update to my splitter questions and upgrading notes:
I have removed three 4-device AV splitters from the set-up, and replaced them with one (eventually two) 8-device switches. I found one on Amazon that is remarkably sturdy and well-made. It currently has NES, SNES, N64, GameCube, Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, and 3DO plugged in.
Currently, the PS1, PS2, PS3, Ouya, Xbox, and GameStick (GameStick is also not in the console database on the site, and maybe there should be an Android console section to include this, Ouya, Shield, and Fire TV) are not plugged into the main set-up. The secondary TV still utilizes coaxial input games, but I moved the NES to the plasma TV, cleaned it with ye olde fashioned NES cleaning kit, and finally it seems to be working as expected again.
I have essentially confirmed that the receiver badly needs the capacitors replaced, as it is very slow and chunky to switch HDMI ports. However, the Wii U runs quite beautifully on the HDMI now.
I removed nearly a dozen cables from behind the entertainment center.
I discovered an anomaly I did not consider before. I purchased an unpowered HDMI splitter and discovered that only the Wii U is able to punch through it with ease. The PS3 can't get a signal through it at all, and the X360 can't play DVD's through it, but can play games. Go figure. I will have to upgrade to a powered HDMI splitter from here on. Eventually.
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Your best choice of selector box or receiver will depend on your television. If you have two HDMI inputs and one component input (that's the red, blue and green cords) available at the back of your TV, just use them and any composite (yellow, white, red) selector box you find on Amazon.
If your TV inputs are inadequate and you would require a selector that accommodates HDMI, component and composite, I suggest getting a better TV.
I received new capacitors in the mail yesterday, went out and bought a soldering iron, and replaced the noted capacitors in my receiver. Holy crap, what a difference. I didn't even realize that there was a Setup screen that was supposed to be on the TV when going through Setup options. It works quite brilliantly now.
No wonder this thing was in a pawn shop all those years ago when I bought it, but this saves me from buying a new one, and I'm roughly 80% of the way to the set-up you illustrated in your original help. I still need a powered HDMI splitter, but that's about it.