VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => Modern Video Games => Topic started by: bikingjahuty on January 21, 2024, 09:56:07 pm
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This topic has come up numerous times recently in various Facebook groups I belong to as well as in a livestream I was watching this evening. Being a collecting site, I figure most VGcollect people are not happy about the inevitable digital only future of modern gaming, but I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone's feelings are towards this topic, and how, if at all, will this change the way you purchase and play modern games?
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Even though I've taken a big step back from collecting for the past few years, I'm still a huge proponent of physical games and actual ownership of the games you purchase. Currently, I only buy digital games when they are on sale for dirt cheap (Steam Summer Sale, GOG Holidat sale, ect). I rarely have ever spent over $10 on any digital game or DLC since my trade off for the lack of real ownership is investing as little as possible into the game I bought. Luckily up until now I've had the luxury of physically owning most of the games I have a desire to play. I have to thank places like Limited Run Games or Special Reserve Games for enabling me to do this with smaller, more niche releases, but also even AAA games.
Before I get into what I plan on doing once all modern gaming goes digital only, I do want to address the issue of many modern physical games, particularly on the PS5 and Series X/S, being little more than beefed up CD keys. I say this because the discs are definitely more than CD keys, however without downloading the rest of the game which 90% of them require, the game will either not work at all or be in an unplayable state. I've seen this with various PS4 games as well, although it is less egregious than on consoles from the current gen. What this essentially means is the longevity of collecting for the PS5, Series X/S, and even PS4 and XBONE is severely in question. I'm hedging on Sony and Microsoft not keeping the servers for their older platforms up forever and someday making all those necessary downloads and patches unavailable, more or less turning your modern console collections into paperweights inside a blueray case. I've taken a step back from accumulating any sort of substantial PS5 collection as a result, and have even started swapping out my PS4 copies of certain games for their Switch equivalent assuming the game isn't substantially compromised due to being on less powerful hardware.
But with that out of the way, once the pretense of physical ownership and distribution is completely gone, I am mostly going to abandon modern gaming. I say "mostly" because I do plan on buying some games digitally, but only when they've gone on sale substantially. I'm also unlikely to buy any new consoles from Sony or Microsoft, especially Microsoft since their XBOX and PC library of titles is nearly identical now. I feel like the only question mark towards everything going digitial next gen is what the successor to the Nintendo Switch will do. While I do think there is a possibility it may continue to use physical media, I think the odds of it adopting some sort of Gamepass SAAS model is far more likely. I know Nintendo likes to try and innovate, and I can see them offering a cloud based gaming service that allows you to play their games on essentially any platform, but of course they'll offer their own hardware to play it on and offer some sort of benefits and exclusivity for using it. I guess we'll see, but I'm barely any less bleak over what's in store for Nintendo. But I will still go on only spending <$10 on digital games, and on very rare occasions I may spend around $20, but only if it's a game I really, really want to play. Without being able to own my games, the desire to purchase them at all is significantly diminished for me.
Luckily I still have a crazy amount of retro games I can play, but there's something very somber about not being able to get excited about modern gaming. I've been gaming for nearly my whole life and assuming I live to be in my 70s or 80s, I'll have to live the last half of my life as someone who doesn't really care about new, hot releases. Given, gaming might look significantly different in 10 to 20 years than it does now, where the idea of sitting at your computer or in front of a TV and playing games, might seem outdated and antiquated, when some sort of Neurolink device allows you to think you're actually inside of a game (think of the Matrix), but even that sounds fairly scary and unappealing to me if I'm being honest. I guess we'll see what happens next gen, but for the most part I am mostly bowing out of modern gaming once next gen's consoles start coming out.
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Assuming I'm still alive in five years, I'm planning to walk away from modern gaming when it goes digital only. I'm already not impressed with a majority of what the industry is pumping out anyway. I expect it's quite possible the digital only future will happen with the next generation. Luckily, I have 40 years of gaming that I know I've enjoyed and can revisit.
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I wonder if digital prices being dirt cheap would continue or if that being the only option the prices may not drop as much.
I still prefer physical somewhat but I'm not buying nearly as many games as I used to. When you can often find digital games complete with all their DLC for under $10 its hard to justify picking the physical version over it. I'd rather have all the content than buy the physical version. Physical "complete" editions are rarer now than they were early in the PS4 gen.
For your point about Nintendo, I gotta disagree completely. That doesn't sound like Nintendo at all. Their games actually sell, they aren't going to put them on a subscription service anytime soon. Nintendo's also notoriously terrible when it comes to online infrastructure. Nintendo wouldn't want their games on another platform. They make a bunch of money on Switch's hardware sales success where Xbox and PlayStation's margins are slimmer with hardware alone. Xbox series X|S are sold at a loss costing them as much as $200 per sale. PS5 doesn't sell at a loss but they don't profit as much from hardware as Nintendo does.
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I don't really think it's gonna happen, in the sense that there's absolutely zero physical games. So it becomes a niche market, but it's not the end. They still print books, they still make CDs, DVDs, there's a vinyl boom still happening in 2024. I can only foresee the biggest of greediest corporations going scorched Earth on physical, and ultimately trying (as Ubisoft and others would clearly prefer) moving to a purely subscription based "you own nothing" model, not even a download. But to Hell with them, I don't really care.
I know there will always be publishers of physical media, even if it's niche and limited. I'll probably continue to buy those sorts of products. I have Steam, so if I absolutely need to experience a release or two per year, I might make a purchase on there. I certainly don't collect downloads, and never will.
Simple as that, really.
I've seen no reason to believe the figure of physical PS5 games which require an Internet connection would be anywhere near 90%. Perhaps when your PS5 is connected to Internet, 90% of your games will download instead of installing, but I'm more inclined to believe 90%of PS5 games don't require it for one reason or another to be playable. I think there's a misconception that all physical games today come with the equivalent of Cyberpunk 2077 quality assurance for the version that's on the disc, but I don't think that's true either (in fact, there's a new and improved edition of Cyberpunk on PS5 that just got a physical release). And again, you can always let your games download and store the latest revisions on an external hard-drive, as another means of preserving them.
An interesting watch on modern game preservation - https://youtu.be/E40lcitQoAs?si=gz1S8jjoE0bTC7Xp&t=246
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That Ubisoft quote about being comfortable about not owning games is not as harsh with the full context.
The full interview: https://www.gamesindustry.biz/the-new-ubisoft-and-getting-gamers-comfortable-with-not-owning-their-games
"The point is not to force users to go down one route or another," he explains. "We offer purchase, we offer subscription, and it's the gamer's preference that is important here. We are seeing some people who buy choosing to subscribe now, but it all works."
Quote is literally from the same interview. The interviewer then asks him "what is it going to take for subscription to step up and become a more significant proportion of the industry?" So he gave a full reasonable answer to which one sentence was plastered everywhere. He's even sympathetic in the rest of the quote relating it to the ownership of DVDs.
"One of the things we saw is that gamers are used to, a little bit like DVD, having and owning their games. That's the consumer shift that needs to happen. They got comfortable not owning their CD collection or DVD collection. That's a transformation that's been a bit slower to happen [in games]. As gamers grow comfortable in that aspect… you don't lose your progress. If you resume your game at another time, your progress file is still there. That's not been deleted. You don't lose what you've built in the game or your engagement with the game. So it's about feeling comfortable with not owning your game.
"I still have two boxes of DVDs. I definitely understand the gamers perspective with that. But as people embrace that model, they will see that these games will exist, the service will continue, and you'll be able to access them when you feel like. That's reassuring.
So clearly, in the full context, he's not saying it needs to happen he's answering the question of what it would take for it to happen.
Separately, there's also this interview quote from October 2023 from Ubisoft's SVP of Business Development, Chris Early:
https://news.ubisoft.com/en-us/article/wy4gKUmOdRRoO5Uvlr8CA
There’s a collector edition market. There’s the aspect of gifting physical items and allowing access for people to be able to easily purchase a game in a store and gift them to their friends or family. Some people will always want to own a physical disc. I just don’t think it’s going away. Do I think physical sales might get lower over time? Sure, but will it ever completely go away? I don’t think so.
Ubisoft does not deserve most of the hate they get. If you hate Ubisoft for making online focused games, the same franchises over and over, microtransactions, whatever then why not support Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown? First non-mobile Prince of Persia game in 14 years, many 9/10 reviews, $50 launch price, free demo across all platforms.. if this is the direction people want from Ubisoft it's out now ready to be bought and owned physically or digitally.
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I pick up both digital and and physical releases already, so not a lot will change. For me, I'd be less inclined to pick up certain games right away, like a lot of stuff I grab on console tend to be singleplayer game experiences I'm not as likely to replay, mostly PS5, so like God of War, Last of Us, Spider-Man, and then I beat them and trade them in to pay for another game. Not that I don't like the games, they were good, I'm just not as likely to replay them and don't really need to keep them. So instead, for stuff like that in a digital only landscape, they'd turn into waiting on a sale, or being something I play only on a Game Pass type service. There are absolutely games I'd rather own physically, Nintendo will probably be doing it for a long while still no matter what and would likely be the last bastions of it.
Physical products don't mean much to games I want to play, I'll play them no matter what as great new games are coming out all the time, I'd probably just play a little less and focus on the ones I really want as it's not like I'm ever short on something to play.
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I've begun thinking that an all-digital future won't happen. At least, not until worldwide internet infrastructure becomes more widely available with higher quality. Below is a comment I've made elsewhere:
People also overlook many other areas of the world such as parts of Europe, Africa, and Asia in addition to rural North America, even. I doubt we'll truly see a digital-only console anytime soon, because regions like these won't be able to support a digital-only system. If decisions like to make certain games digital-only is to come, then they'll just be missing out on sales while certainly not gaining any more.
Of course, this issue could just be ignored with companies deciding to cut their losses in some markets, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. I've not seen anyone else make this sort of argument, so perhaps that is only wishful thinking.
"One of the things we saw is that gamers are used to, a little bit like DVD, having and owning their games. That's the consumer shift that needs to happen. They got comfortable not owning their CD collection or DVD collection. That's a transformation that's been a bit slower to happen [in games]. As gamers grow comfortable in that aspect… you don't lose your progress. If you resume your game at another time, your progress file is still there. That's not been deleted. You don't lose what you've built in the game or your engagement with the game. So it's about feeling comfortable with not owning your game.
"I still have two boxes of DVDs. I definitely understand the gamers perspective with that. But as people embrace that model, they will see that these games will exist, the service will continue, and you'll be able to access them when you feel like. That's reassuring.
Like the person being interviewed mentions, the majority of people have grown comfortable with subscription-based models for music, movies, and TV. However, that's not to say they enjoy it, as there are so many issues with how it's being managed now, with licenses being sold regularly from party to party. A recent video from videogamedunkey (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhv7bgmz64) pokes fun at this ridiculousness in a way which only strengthens the argument.
That said, I'm now envisioning a future which has games being treated the same way. While before there were only a handful of major streaming services for visual media, there are dozens of dozens now. Games could easily fall into that model, with individual publishers releasing their own subscription services or, at the very least, selling their licenses to the highest bidder with them being traded around routinely to others. This could easily mean that one game within a series be exclusively available on one service, whereas a second game in that same series be exclusively available on another. So, to play through the entire series, consumers could very well be forced to subscribe to a multitude of models.
The person being interviewed also doesn't mention (from what you've provided as excerpts, anyway) the very real possibility of games being de-listed across all platforms far in the future, which is not uncommon for other forms of media now.
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Ubisoft does not deserve most of the hate they get. If you hate Ubisoft for making online focused games, the same franchises over and over, microtransactions, whatever then why not support Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown? First non-mobile Prince of Persia game in 14 years, many 9/10 reviews, $50 launch price, free demo across all platforms.. if this is the direction people want from Ubisoft it's out now ready to be bought and owned physically or digitally.
I do want to get the new Prince of Persia. I'm certainly not a full boycotter, but Ubisoft is one of the biggest offenders for releasing physical single-player games with an Internet requirement, which don't have a sound reason to require it, they're just being buttholes about how their games work, like The Crew Motorfest. You can play it single player, but you've GOT to have Internet connectivity just to do that because of they way the game relies on their in-game sales model, I guess. I'm almost positive that if you'd don't have Internet connectivity, you can't even launch the game. That kind of thing supremely sucks. Every game should be playable without Internet, even multiplayer focused games, if you so wanted. Ubisoft and EA are the leaders in doing this, and also in giving the general public the impression that games nowadays don't work anymore without Internet, but it's largely just their greed driven endeavors of in-game sales and massively bug ridden day one releases. That's where the hate comes in, and I think it is a bit deserved.
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If everything does end up going digital, I'll just be more picky in what I'll get. and preferably would buy stuff on sale.
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I've basically been living the all digital life on PC for years now with Steam. I do prefer Steam more than the other platforms, mostly because the other clients have so much overhead packed into them. I can still play older games on older systems and computers so that really hasn't changed.
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I already refuse to pay full price for something I have much less ownership rights over what I had with offline DRM physical games. Not more than 20€. Imho for a good 10 years the majority of physical copies are already made pointless because of online DRM. You get a dust collector with the same ownership right you have for the digital release.
When digital only mutates into subscription service only, and that will happen, don't hold onto any illusions about it, I'll quit playing modern games.
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I don't really think it's gonna happen, in the sense that there's absolutely zero physical games. So it becomes a niche market, but it's not the end.
The main reason I doubt this is going to happen is looking at the state of physical media right now when we do still have physical alternatives, at least for gaming. I can't remember where I read this, but it said that the majority of games sales are now digital which does not surprise me at all. Streaming has killed physical movies/TV and music, and before that digital distribution (iTunes, Pay-Per View). Best Buy is getting rid of all their physical movies as we speak, and the selection at places like Target and Best Buy is sparse at best. Look at these store's selection of blueray/dvd players too; there is a very small section of about 4 or 5 blueray players to choose from now. With something like a game console, a significant portion of RnD has to go into adding physical media capabilities, and that's not to mention the added costs of making sure distributors and manufacturers can produce the games for your console. I guess what I'm trying to say is, why would Sony or Microsoft even bother with the added hassle of making sure their new consoles can play physical media when there is less of a demand, while still requiring the additional expense of catering to a minority of customers?
I don't think the console makers are going to keep things physical for a niche group of people. And if there's no way of playing physical media, this takes companies like Limited Run out of the picture, unless they are somehow releasing games on older consoles that have the ability to play physical media still. I don't know, I hope you're right, but it just seems like we are going in a very clear direction that other forms of media have already gone over the past 10+ years.
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I don't really think it's gonna happen, in the sense that there's absolutely zero physical games. So it becomes a niche market, but it's not the end.
The main reason I doubt this is going to happen is looking at the state of physical media right now when we do still have physical alternatives, at least for gaming. I can't remember where I read this, but it said that the majority of games sales are now digital which does not surprise me at all. Streaming has killed physical movies/TV and music, and before that digital distribution (iTunes, Pay-Per View). Best Buy is getting rid of all their physical movies as we speak, and the selection at places like Target and Best Buy is sparse at best. Look at these store's selection of blueray/dvd players too; there is a very small section of about 4 or 5 blueray players to choose from now. With something like a game console, a significant portion of RnD has to go into adding physical media capabilities, and that's not to mention the added costs of making sure distributors and manufacturers can produce the games for your console. I guess what I'm trying to say is, why would Sony or Microsoft even bother with the added hassle of making sure their new consoles can play physical media when there is less of a demand, while still requiring the additional expense of catering to a minority of customers?
I don't think the console makers are going to keep things physical for a niche group of people. And if there's no way of playing physical media, this takes companies like Limited Run out of the picture, unless they are somehow releasing games on older consoles that have the ability to play physical media still. I don't know, I hope you're right, but it just seems like we are going in a very clear direction that other forms of media have already gone over the past 10+ years.
There's a big market for DVD and Bluray collecting still, the casuals might have moved on from owning movies a long time ago but there's still the demand for physical, so every new movie, show, or anime is still getting physical releases to this day. The presence at a retail level goes away or diminishes and gives the impression that "it's dead", but it's products that you can still order online. There's a shocking amount of amateur musicians and bands, which you still buy physical CDs or Vinyl from directly from their merch store, or specialty sites. Anyone who has a real following, has physical media probably dropping right this minute. Relatively speaking, record players aren't exactly abundant at retail, but there's a market for them and they'll always make them.
It's rumored that the next iteration of PS5 / XBOX will not include a built-in disc drive, but have the capability to connect an external one, like modern day laptops or PCs without a disc drive. Really all it does is read and install from a disc, what developmental capabilities are they spending resources on to allow for that? It's a device that's functional through a USB. Isn't a PS5 built off of common, non-propitiatory architecture anyhow? I'm struggling to see how it's difficult for Sony to implement external drive reading compatibility like any other piece of hardware on the market, going forward. Doesn't seem like it would be, particularly if that's the way they do end up going later on with the PS5. With Microsoft, I kinda think Xbox might not even be a thing next generation. They clearly don't want to continue in the traditional sense. Nintendo doesn't know how to manage a online network, I don't see them going digital.
I dunno, every other form of media has survived the onslaught of digital to various degrees and I think games will in a way, as well. Not entirely, but there will be an option. It might even be something that's not even in the picture currently that comes about to pick up the slack. I struggle to see Sony or Nintendo going all digital, with no physical compatibility. I think the best thing to do, is rid the defeatist attitude that it's all over. Keep buying physical games, cake up that market and make it worthwhile for publishers to keep doing what they've always done. Unfortunately we can't rely on physical retail space anymore, but you can still buy online. If I didn't have such a retro fixation, I'd be picking up a lot more modern games.
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I don't think this topic is new around here, as I believe we've had this discussion before in some fashion. But sure, what are my plans when everything goes digital only?
I'll sail away and set an open course for the Virgin Sea 'cause I've got to be free—free to face the life that's ahead of me.
I never thought I'd quote that, but I mean it without an ounce of shame.
(https://i.imgur.com/jP2DksU.gif)
Jolly japeries aside, I already have one foot out the door as far as modern gaming is concerned; I can't help but keep losing interest in it with every passing day. But, in all seriousness, by the time this doomsday scenario becomes a reality, I'm quite confident that you, me, and possibly everyone here will either have become worm food or we'll be so damn senescent and senile that none of it will even matter.
[...] I can't remember where I read this, but it said that the majority of games sales are now digital which does not surprise me at all. [...]
But, if I'm not mistaken, those statistics are conflating not only PC AND digital-only downloads but also DLC and its ilk, with, I believe, mobile games on top of it, so I think that "majority" is wholly innacurate and, more than anything, disingenuous. All those articles spread about the 'net are painting the wrong picture.
All of this is a nonsensical boogeyman. Sure, the industry is desperately pushing for digital, so I'll grant you that we'll inevitably see this happening, but not yet—not in our lifetime, I believe. There are still too many hurdles, and, even though corporate greed is the devil in this scenario, it is also a contributing factor preventing this from happening. The people who are basically insinuating that by 2028, physical media will go the way of the dodo or will at least be less prevalent are spewing nothing but pundit hokum. This whole thing feels like the GameStop debate, where nearly every year its fate is discussed ad nauseum, but now let's add to that the "whether games will be digital-only or not by 20XX" circlejerk.
For the sake of transparency, I will say this: given that both Sony and Microsoft already released digital-only consoles and we've basically demoed that future, were the full transition actually come to pass in the next generation, it's not crazy to see a big scandal over it, somewhat similar in effect to when Sony wanted to shut down the PS3 and PSVita digital storefronts, more so given, as randomstranger pointed out, the argument over ownership and potentially even pricing. I'm not sure how things would unfold, but even if it's the "minority", people who prefer physical media still make up a big piece of the pie. But as I mentioned before, it's already a 50/50 deal for me, so the moment this does become our reality, I'm bailing out and won't look back.
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Either pirate or quit engaging in the "everything".
I can't actively condone illegal activity on a public forum, but I can advocate for actually owning the things you buy.
E.g., Louis Rossman has a video on Sony's content (video) licenses expiring and them yanking content out of our library that you paid for and planned to keep. Given that alone, I'm not trying to sink any more money into the PlayStation ecosystem. Sure, I'll collect the previous gen console when the new one comes out and get the exclusives, but I will never invest myself into an ecosystem that I know is going to decline in quality further than it already has.
Or how about that other time when Louis Rossman did a video on Netflix not providing the image quality they said they were.
Not only that, everything is quickly becoming a service, or it's "as a service". Sure, it was whatever when Netflix exploded during the seventh generation. Streaming from my house beat going down to the local blockbuster or Redbox literally around the corner.
The problem is now HBO, Disney (Hulu), NBC (Peacock) also want $10 a month. I'm sorry Peacock, but I'm not giving you $10/month to watch House M.D.
I could pay $40 a month for lesser quality and not own it or I could pay less than $10 a month for a VPN. Hard choice.
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I can't figure out how to delete this message so instead of wasting space with a quote I'll just put my edit to the statement above down below.
There's a saying going around that's something along the lines of "if buying isn't owning, than pirating isn't stealing". I can't say I outwardly agree with that, however it's certainly food for thought.
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I already refuse to pay full price for something I have much less ownership rights over what I had with offline DRM physical games. Not more than 20€. Imho for a good 10 years the majority of physical copies are already made pointless because of online DRM. You get a dust collector with the same ownership right you have for the digital release.
This plays a huge factor for me. I'm (generally) not going to pay full price for a digital only title, but if it gets dirt cheap I'll pick something up.
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First things first: I've been hearing that "the video game's industry will go full digital in the next five years" for the past fifteen years or so...
That said, I just recently bought my first digital video game ever: Project Wingman on the PS5! I only bought it because I have absolutely no hopes of it ever being released physically, but I have to admit it's pretty convenient not having to deal with disc swaps whenever I feel like playing it. I don't consider it part of my collection and will never add a digital download to my catalogue here though...
I think that even if most of the industry goes mostly digital in the future, as long as companies sell consoles that take some sort of physical media, collectors will continue buying physical games.
In the end, physical games may become more and more of a niche in the years to come, but I don't see Sony and/or Nintendo dropping discs/cards/whatever in the near future. Let's see...
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Right now I never buy Digital except for a few exceptions. I really want the new Allen Wake game but refuse to get it digital. I suppose when everything switches over to digital I'll just play what I already have and save a lot of money lol.
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I've got enough games (as many do on this site) to last a lifetime. If things go completely digital, dedicated hardware might as well disappear also. We're really at the point of diminishing returns with gaming and entertainment as it is.
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In the end, physical games may become more and more of a niche in the years to come, but I don't see Sony and/or Nintendo dropping discs/cards/whatever in the near future. Let's see...
I can see it for Nintendo, but sony is kinda following xbox in terms of digital. + majority usually not on discs anymore with big titles and digital only consoles.
Nintendo doesn't come close to most of that. ps5 might just be the last gen for physical sony.
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the switch is my final system and thats for an reason they can stuff their digital future where the sun doesnt shine I am out
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I've begun thinking that an all-digital future won't happen. At least, not until worldwide internet infrastructure becomes more widely available with higher quality.
I'm realizing I never actually answered the question, so I'll do that. If physical game items stopped being manufactured, it's not as if I would stop playing games, whether that be ones already released or upcoming ones. There are only a few franchises I actually care about which would be upsetting to not physically collect for, but the lack of physicality overall would be fine. Like many have said, I'd be inclined to purchase a digital-only game at a reduced price, but I'm already doing that for modern physical games. Right now, any game I purchase new is because it's being published as a limited or online-exclusive product, which I seldom collect for, anyway.
I think one aspect people tend to overlook is the sheer amount of indie games only released for PC at a marginal price or even free. For many of these games, in my opinion, their quality outperforms games published by major studios, although that's an effect caused by publishers rushing developers to meet deadlines. I'd be playing more indie games, for sure.
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As each manufacturer goes digital only whether game-by-game or the entire console being digital-only, they are saving me money. As a collector, I buy many games and related merchandise. I'm old fashioned and want that tangible item. I've seen too many times how movies, shows, games, etc. get removed where you can no longer access them. Yeah, my copy of Overwatch may be defunct now and essentially a coaster, but I still have that book, statue, etc. that it came with.
Microsoft is pulling the trigger mid-gen it seems with the updated Series X releasing later this year sans disc drive. Their intentions are clear, especially given that they've had retailers pulling Starfield from stores (but not the DLC in the Steelbook), announced Senua's Saga as digital-only and being mum whether Indiana Jones will have a physical version. I'll keep Gamepass to play the few games I want such as future Halo games, but other than that they can kiss my hairy ass.
The same will apply for Sony and Nintendo if/when they follow. I really wanted to play Baldur's Gate III, but refused to pay $60 for a digital fart. Same for Alan Wake 2. Since BGIII has a physical edition finally coming, I ordered it. If Alan Wake 2 gets an eventual physical release, I'll buy it then and only then.
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Microsoft is pulling the trigger mid-gen it seems with the updated Series X releasing later this year sans disc drive. Their intentions are clear, especially given that they've had retailers pulling Starfield from stores (but not the DLC in the Steelbook), announced Senua's Saga as digital-only and being mum whether Indiana Jones will have a physical version.
At its core, the main difference between a Series X and Series S is the disc drive's presence. That the upcoming redesigned Series X is being reported (https://www.pcmag.com/news/xbox-series-x-ditches-the-disc-drive-in-october-2024) to still be $200 more expensive than the Series S is laughable.
The only positive to this mid-gen downgrade is that curating the database's Xbox Series X sections will be much easier. Its library was already small, even.
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https://www.purexbox.com/news/2024/01/xboxs-physical-games-departments-reportedly-affected-by-microsoft-layoffs
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I do want to address the issue of many modern physical games, particularly on the PS5 and Series X/S, being little more than beefed up CD keys. I say this because the discs are definitely more than CD keys, however without downloading the rest of the game which 90% of them require, the game will either not work at all or be in an unplayable state. I've seen this with various PS4 games as well, although it is less egregious than on consoles from the current gen. What this essentially means is the longevity of collecting for the PS5, Series X/S, and even PS4 and XBONE is severely in question.
I was reminded of the site DoesItPlay? (https://www.doesitplay.org/), which I'm sure you'll find interesting. The site is vastly far away from making any noteworthy dent in the grand scheme of things, but it should provide a general overview of how many games actually are fully playable without an internet connection.
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I can see it for Nintendo, but sony is kinda following xbox in terms of digital. + majority usually not on discs anymore with big titles and digital only consoles.
Nintendo doesn't come close to most of that. ps5 might just be the last gen for physical sony.
Good grief... If your prediction is correct, it means I will end up turning from a Nintendo hater to a Nintendo fanboy.
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I do want to address the issue of many modern physical games, particularly on the PS5 and Series X/S, being little more than beefed up CD keys. I say this because the discs are definitely more than CD keys, however without downloading the rest of the game which 90% of them require, the game will either not work at all or be in an unplayable state. I've seen this with various PS4 games as well, although it is less egregious than on consoles from the current gen. What this essentially means is the longevity of collecting for the PS5, Series X/S, and even PS4 and XBONE is severely in question.
I was reminded of the site DoesItPlay? (https://www.doesitplay.org/), which I'm sure you'll find interesting. The site is vastly far away from making any noteworthy dent in the grand scheme of things, but it should provide a general overview of how many games actually are fully playable without an internet connection.
Trying to check out this site but the filters are just not working for me at all.
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My backlog is huge. I intend to play and enjoy it. :)
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This topic has come up numerous times recently in various Facebook groups I belong to as well as in a livestream I was watching this evening. Being a collecting site, I figure most VGcollect people are not happy about the inevitable digital only future of modern gaming, but I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone's feelings are towards this topic, and how, if at all, will this change the way you purchase and play modern games?
PC only, DRM-Free only (basically means GoG but some titles on steam are actually DRM-Free as well)
I tend to agree with what bunnybear said about many of the new-releases not even being worth your time. It's like they begin with basic structural mechanics like shooting and movement and then just figure out how to make them as addictive as possible so they can monetize the hell out of them. A few years back a friend and I played several Ubisoft titles (IIRC it was the first GR Wildlands and the original Division) because they had them on trial and I was genuinely left yelling at my friend about how boring and pointless they were and how I couldn't fathom how they'd each individually sold millions of copies. Prior to that I'd played several Ubisoft titles and enjoyed many of them but since that experience I literally haven't paid a single one of their titles any mind.
I fully expect streaming-only to come (relatively) shortly after digital-only, at that point I won't even bother, I'd rather make my own games at that point.
Like you said, as of the current generation many games are essentially no better than coasters and the same holds true for many games from the PS4/xbone generation as well.
I've begun thinking that an all-digital future won't happen. At least, not until worldwide internet infrastructure becomes more widely available with higher quality. Below is a comment I've made elsewhere:
People also overlook many other areas of the world such as parts of Europe, Africa, and Asia in addition to rural North America, even. I doubt we'll truly see a digital-only console anytime soon, because regions like these won't be able to support a digital-only system. If decisions like to make certain games digital-only is to come, then they'll just be missing out on sales while certainly not gaining any more.
Of course, this issue could just be ignored with companies deciding to cut their losses in some markets, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon. I've not seen anyone else make this sort of argument, so perhaps that is only wishful thinking.
"One of the things we saw is that gamers are used to, a little bit like DVD, having and owning their games. That's the consumer shift that needs to happen. They got comfortable not owning their CD collection or DVD collection. That's a transformation that's been a bit slower to happen [in games]. As gamers grow comfortable in that aspect… you don't lose your progress. If you resume your game at another time, your progress file is still there. That's not been deleted. You don't lose what you've built in the game or your engagement with the game. So it's about feeling comfortable with not owning your game.
"I still have two boxes of DVDs. I definitely understand the gamers perspective with that. But as people embrace that model, they will see that these games will exist, the service will continue, and you'll be able to access them when you feel like. That's reassuring.
Like the person being interviewed mentions, the majority of people have grown comfortable with subscription-based models for music, movies, and TV. However, that's not to say they enjoy it, as there are so many issues with how it's being managed now, with licenses being sold regularly from party to party. A recent video from videogamedunkey (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvhv7bgmz64) pokes fun at this ridiculousness in a way which only strengthens the argument.
That said, I'm now envisioning a future which has games being treated the same way. While before there were only a handful of major streaming services for visual media, there are dozens of dozens now. Games could easily fall into that model, with individual publishers releasing their own subscription services or, at the very least, selling their licenses to the highest bidder with them being traded around routinely to others. This could easily mean that one game within a series be exclusively available on one service, whereas a second game in that same series be exclusively available on another. So, to play through the entire series, consumers could very well be forced to subscribe to a multitude of models.
The person being interviewed also doesn't mention (from what you've provided as excerpts, anyway) the very real possibility of games being de-listed across all platforms far in the future, which is not uncommon for other forms of media now.
Nobody cares about the regions without access to quality internet. African, South American, and Middle Eastern region releases do exist but the markets are extremely small to begin with (and likely has a large crossover with the ones that can afford high speed internet).
Companies like MS were arrogant enough to say "stick with 360" more than a decade ago when pressed on the topic, arrogant execs certainly haven't gone extinct.
It's also in the best interest for companies like Microsoft, Facebook, and Google to deliberately build out that sort of infrastructure in those places so that they can be the first ones to capture the wider market as their populations gradually get richer.
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2024/01/xboxs-physical-games-departments-reportedly-affected-by-microsoft-layoffs
I'm fully expecting Sony to be next and Nintendo to follow after that. Hopefully we get a PS6 with a disc drive but it's possible they axe it by the PS5 Pro.
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I was reminded of the site DoesItPlay? (https://www.doesitplay.org/), which I'm sure you'll find interesting. The site is vastly far away from making any noteworthy dent in the grand scheme of things, but it should provide a general overview of how many games actually are fully playable without an internet connection.
This is an invaluable resource for modern game collectors, and one I'd invite anyone skeptical about modern game longevity to look into. Evidently, only 11% of games globally in their database don't install fully off of the disc/cart. That's lower than I honestly expected. Internet requirement to play is only at 4%.
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Not that this group needed another signal flare, but Spec Ops: The Line was removed from pretty much all digital marketplaces (it was still on GOG last I looked) without warning because the music licenses expired. The publisher said they have no plans to relist, but knew this was coming and still said nothing until after it was removed.
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https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/several-european-retailers-are-reportedly-no-longer-stocking-physical-xbox-games/
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I mean, Gamepass is super popular. Most casuals see no point to buying the games anymore, physical or digital. Congratulations Microsoft, we know it's what they wanted anyhow since they suck at curating talent to make games, and they lack broad appeal as a result. Might as well just make it the easiest platform for accessing slop, as that's all it's really been for a while now.
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Not that this group needed another signal flare, but Spec Ops: The Line was removed from pretty much all digital marketplaces (it was still on GOG last I looked) without warning because the music licenses expired. The publisher said they have no plans to relist, but knew this was coming and still said nothing until after it was removed.
Since its digital removal, I've learned about just how interesting this game actually is, especially in the context of when it was released. I doubt I'll ever play it, but it's worth looking into for anyone keen on the shooter genre.
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I picked it up a while back on the cheap. Digital distribution is garbage, but also, people loose their minds over FOMO. Look how many copies of this game sell PER DAY now. A month prior, nobody would give it a second thought.
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Either pirate or quit engaging in the "everything".
I can't actively condone illegal activity on a public forum, but I can advocate for actually owning the things you buy. [...]
There's a saying going around that's something along the lines of "if buying isn't owning, than pirating isn't stealing". I can't say I outwardly agree with that, however it's certainly food for thought.
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[...] but I have to admit it's pretty convenient not having to deal with disc swaps whenever I feel like playing it.
Well, you could say that convenience has been there ever since emulation, but I obviously get what you mean. At least this instance helps your understanding of why some people prefer that format over the other, so it's nice you went through it even if it's just once solely for that, especially given how you would snoot at digital games in the past.
I think that even if most of the industry goes mostly digital in the future, as long as companies sell consoles that take some sort of physical media, collectors will continue buying physical games.
As long as those "physical" games don't end up being full-blown glorified coasters, then sure; otherwise, why bother? We'll see...
I think one aspect people tend to overlook is the sheer amount of indie games only released for PC at a marginal price or even free. For many of these games, in my opinion, their quality outperforms games published by major studios, although that's an effect caused by publishers rushing developers to meet deadlines. I'd be playing more indie games, for sure.
Oh, definitely, without a doubt and 100%: most indie games, I'm of the same opinion as you, have no problem kicking 'AAA' games to the curb; it's a universal truth at this point, I feel. This, I think, can be particularly likened to Pokémon, where fan games, especially ROM hacks, often tend to be of far superior quality, offering a better experience than the main games in the series have in the past decade; in fact, some of the people behind those projects went on to create and develop games of their own, with Monster Crow (https://store.steampowered.com/app/830370/Monster_Crown/), Anode Heart (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1592750/Anode_Heart/), and CountryBalls Heroes (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1083870/CountryBalls_Heroes/) being some recent examples.
My original post was geared mainly toward the "mainstream" side of the industry, given that their reason for pushing digital so fervently is insincere; they see it as a casino of sorts, and it's therefore driven not only by greed but also by the corporate side of it, which worsens it. In truth, I don't have a problem getting games digitally; the majority of indie games, after all, began and often continue to be distributed that way. But the difference between the two sides is, to use a simple analogy, like me choosing water over soda to quench my thirst, so I can't in good conscience go with the least healthy, less satiable option when what they're offering me boils down to renting a license key at a premium that they can in turn revoke anytime they want due to licensing issues or what-have-yous. If the main point of their argument for pushing digital-only distribution by 20XX is cutting costs, then the least that they should do is pass those savings on to their customers since there literally won't be anything tangible in exchange. They want the maximum amount of profit by exerting the least amount of effort, which is irrefutable at this point, I believe.
Truthfully, I've always been of the opinion that modern gaming as we know it began its slow descent into mediocrity ever since the 7th generation, going further downhill as the years passed, so to put it bluntly, whatever these companies end up doing has no immediate impact on me—I'm a shameless cheapskate anyway, if you catch my drift.
One last thought: never give up your freedom for the sake of convenience.
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2024/01/xboxs-physical-games-departments-reportedly-affected-by-microsoft-layoffs
https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/several-european-retailers-are-reportedly-no-longer-stocking-physical-xbox-games/
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Slowly but surely, the transition continues.
Let's wait a bit and see if the few rumors that purport that Nintendo's next console is digital-only are true, and then I guess we can sit here to ponder this far more critically. After all, as I said, we tasted the waters already with Sony and Microsoft releasing consoles without disc drives, so my way of thinking is if the third dog in the race, who's stubbornness knows no bounds and has often shown to be staunchly stuck in the past, does end up following the same approach as its competitors, then that would change things, for sure. If, in the next generation, the three biggest names in the industry release digital-only consoles, then I guess we could begin to fully embrace the digital era...maybe. We can count on there being opposition if that were to happen because, as I said, even if it's a "minority", people who prefer physical media still make up a big piece of the pie. But we'll see, I guess. Full disclosure, though: given Nintendo's "always late to the party" way of doing things, I don't see them going all-digital yet, mainly because I don't think Japan cares as much as the West does for digital media.
[...] I do want to address the issue of many modern physical games, particularly on the PS5 and Series X/S, being little more than beefed up CD keys. I say this because the discs are definitely more than CD keys, however without downloading the rest of the game which 90% of them require, the game will either not work at all or be in an unplayable state. I've seen this with various PS4 games as well, although it is less egregious than on consoles from the current gen. What this essentially means is the longevity of collecting for the PS5, Series X/S, and even PS4 and XBONE is severely in question. [...]
Overall, in most cases, for modern physical releases, the game is included on the disc, especially when it comes to single-player titles. It's when developers push day-one patches to account for an unfinished game, cut corners because the game files were too big, or implement always-on DRM that factors in the idea of the discs being "glorified license keys", or rather "glorified coasters", for a far better-sounding descriptor. A game that would require a day-one patch to add missing content or essentially the full game due to being released unfinished will be nothing but utter trash in the future once the servers hosting those files go under—I'm looking at you, Tony Hawk Pro Skater 5. This is what separates Nintendo from the other two: Nintendo Switch releases have the full game on the cartridge and, barring a patch or two, are playable straight from the package. A recent example is Star Ocean: The Second Story R, which I posted derisively about given that it happens to state on the cover that a download is required only for it to be just for a language pack, the game being fully playable offline.
My backlog is huge. I intend to play and enjoy it. :)
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