General and Gaming => Classic Video Games => Topic started by: jcalder8 on January 28, 2013, 12:42:59 am
Title: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jcalder8 on January 28, 2013, 12:42:59 am
Yup I said it. I don't mean that it will be dead in a week or anything but I am calling it now that it will be dead within two years(really one and a half years since it is more likely to die over the summer than around Christmas)
Over the last year I have seen the posts and interest on 3 of the forums that I frequent drastically decline. Long time users no longer posting and a lack of new users joining(of course this site is awesome(because of me.... and a little bit of soera) so it is still growing). What this says to me is that interest is starting to fade. It happened with sports cards and comics and it will happen with retro video games.
Over the course of the year I think we will start to see an increase in the number of Ebay sales, everything from low end to high end, sales will be strong and people who are late to collecting will continue to buy or collectors will still need to pick up the missing items to their collections. The sales will increase because of the bump in resellers it is now more common knowledge that video games are worth uber monies(lol). This will over saturate the market and as the demand decreases resellers will end up being stuck with items they can't give away ex: SMB/DH. When this happens it's only a matter of weeks until the whole market crashes.
The expensive items will always hold their value but, for example, Final Fantasy VII will plummet in price because there are so many of the damned things(lol).
So what do you think? Am I on the money? Do you think it will happen sooner? Later? At all?
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: soera on January 28, 2013, 12:55:04 am
Heh first off thanks for the props! :D
But in seriousness, I tend to see that its not necessarily going to die ... but its going to move onto a different kind of retro. Cartridge people are one brand of people and, for the most part, a lot of the serious hardcore collectors have gotten what they were looking for. Not all, but a lot. Soon its going to get into another type of retro collecting and thats going to be disk game collectors. They arent the type of people that are going to be scrounging the thrift stores and what not looking for nice CIB games cause, honestly, they arent to be had often at places like that. They are going to be the crowd that grew up with internet and are going to be buying every single piece of their collection on Ebay/Amazon/Craigslist and what not. And they arent going to be visiting websites looking for games cause every one of them is going to be on those places they search. I tend to see Dreamcast/Saturn/PS1/Gamecube stuff rising a lot soon.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: hexen on January 28, 2013, 07:30:40 am
No. Retro collecting is far from dying... if anything it is becoming way too mainstream. The ludicrous price jumps over the last couple of years on pretty much EVERYTHING is pretty solid evidence to this, I would say.
However, if you are right and people are becoming less interested in collecting old gaming stuff, I welcome it. I welcome it with open arms. If I can go somewhere and not have grandpa think his copy of Space Invaders for the Atari 2600 is worth $50... if I can go somewhere and not have a reseller buy up everything he sees and mark it up 1000%... then it will be some kind of miracle. However, while this nice little scenario you've laid out would be ideal, it isn't happening. Prices will continue to go up as hipsters with no idea of what things are worth continue to buy things at prices that are absurd and make people think it's ok to sell them for such prices.
TL;DR: No, it's not dying.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jobocan on January 28, 2013, 08:10:56 am
I frankly don't think so. Maybe something will happen so that prices might start going back down in price to something more reasonable... But this is a fad that won't end for a while, especially with all the youtube channels and websites dedicated to retro collecting like the Game Chasers and such.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: htimreimer on January 28, 2013, 09:00:31 am
its not dying but it is slowing down and i can see what soera said happening which is not a bad thing, it will still take 2 to 8 years before the market stable again but it will happen
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: darko on January 28, 2013, 10:38:48 am
I don't see it dying completely. Video games are a huge defining characteristic for Generation Y (and the later years of Generation X). There will be a nostalgia factor there until we're all dead and gone. Collecting might slow down, but I highly doubt it will ever die off completely. Video games are a massive entertainment empire now. As long as we have video games being made there will be new blood brought into collecting. The numbers will more than likely dwindle as time moves on, as those interested in playing the older titles grow up in a world without physical media. As far as in the next 2 years? No.
Most collectors are between the age of 25 & 35 that I've met (getting to the point where they have some disposable income). I think this is the key factor when it comes to looking to the future of collecting. You have the SMS/NES collectors (those who grew up with the systems as their primary) that are now between the ages of ~ 30-35+, the 25-30 age range out looking for SNES/Gen nostalgia, and the 20-25 year olds looking for N64 & PS1 stuff. My ages might be a little off but I think you can see the picture I'm trying to draw. I realize that most of us on this site are collecting across platforms and generations, but not everyone does this. The biggest price divergence at the moment seems to be in the SNES world, where games have basically doubled or tripled in price over the past year or so. The same thing was going on in the NES world several years ago. We'll see the same thing going on with the N64 & PS1 libraries soon enough.
I think another system that is about to see a hefty price bump is the GBA. Consider this: if you're favorite system is the SNES (which seems to be the retro system in the highest demand at the moment), you're more than likely going to like the offerings from the GBA library. At the same time, you're going to have collectors that grew up with the GBA as their primary handheld coming into the marketplace. (we're going to have an overlap in interest). Thus, a price spike in GBA games. I don't think GBA titles will get totally out of control, but I think they will be inflated for a year or so while the overlapping interest drives up demand.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jcalder8 on January 28, 2013, 10:53:41 am
No. Retro collecting is far from dying... if anything it is becoming way too mainstream. The ludicrous price jumps over the last couple of years on pretty much EVERYTHING is pretty solid evidence to this, I would say....
This is why I am saying that it is dying. To use a Yogi Berra quote "Nobody goes there anymore it's too crowded" Everyone knows that they are worth so much but from what I have seen there aren't as many people collecting. Having more people selling than buying is never a good way to keep value up.
I don't think collecting well continue on much past the SNES. Gaming in general was more mainstream by the time the N64 was done it's lifespan so unlike previous console generations most people who wanted it had it. Also in my opinion SMB holds up better than Mario 64. I have an easier time getting my son to play classic 2d gameplay than dated 3d. I think most people who grew up playing Goldeneye and the like have moved on the COD and Halo. I went back and tried to play some Goldeneye and it was fun for the nostalgia but honestly I would just rather play a modern FPS if I was in the mood and I think the same can be said of most 3d games.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: htimreimer on January 28, 2013, 11:29:48 am
the biggest problem with the snes and the reason i dont have one is because the prices for the console and games are way too high for a something that was as mass produced as it was and i think the reason for the high prices is this retro gaming fad thats not going away anytime soon
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: turf on January 28, 2013, 11:34:01 am
Do I think collecting is goonna die? No. Do I think there is a "bubble" that is going to pop? Absolutely.
Prices are becoming overly inflated and too many people are buying games as an investment. People buy stuff up and try to flip the games for a quick buck. Sound familiar? This is the housing market about 2005.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: darko on January 28, 2013, 11:40:39 am
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I don't know anyone who's out getting a sub-prime loan to "invest" in video games :)
Which brings me to another point - if you are in this thinking that you're (not you Turf, the collecting world) going to someday turn a big profit, you're wasting your time and money. Seriously. If you get lucky and find a copy of EB for $5.00 then good for you, sell that crap. If you're holding out for the peak of video game collecting to unload, you might have missed it. If you're spending money on collecting for personal reasons (like the nostalgia factor, want to have a hobby that the whole family can participate in/enjoy, etc) then carry on!
Video game collecting is a very inexpensive hobby when compared to most other things. Collecting isn't going to make any of us rich (unless one of us starts up a store or something that turns into the next GameStop).
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on January 28, 2013, 11:45:17 am
I have an easier time getting my son to play classic 2d gameplay than dated 3d.
As much as I love my Saturn, I'd say anything in the N64, Saturn, PS1 era has a hard time holding up and doesn't age well. Though PS2 games and Xbox games seem to be more resistant to aging, in my opinion. I can play PS2 games all day long and not have any issues with them looking crappy. ha.
I agree that there is a bubble, but I don't think collecting is going to die, not as long as new systems come out and games remain physical objects. IF the console market moves heavy into digital, I'll eventually think of their games in the same light I think of most PC games. "worthless". Not worthless as in resale value, but more in the need to worry about keeping back ups and whether or not I'll lose my collection to hard drive/hardware/DRM failure.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jcalder8 on January 28, 2013, 11:54:50 am
Do I think collecting is goonna die? No. Do I think there is a "bubble" that is going to pop? Absolutely.
Prices are becoming overly inflated and too many people are buying games as an investment. People buy stuff up and try to flip the games for a quick buck. Sound familiar? This is the housing market about 2005.
You're right, it's not going to fully die but the bubble is about ready to burst.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. I don't know anyone who's out getting a sub-prime loan to "invest" in video games :)
Some people have, just like they did with comic books. Also it's not the hoarders that is the problem it's the people who are trying to make a quick buck. At the second hand store I used to work at I would price video game items ridiculously high because I knew one reseller would buy it no matter what. The highest I hit was 39.99 for a loose N64 console which he bought as soon as he saw it. I dropped the prices back down after that because I felt guilty about it. This is the kind of person that is going to burst the bubble because he will never get back his investment and kids who wanted the N64 growing up got one for the most part so they don't feel the need to get it like the SNES and NES generation.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: htimreimer on January 28, 2013, 11:58:27 am
when it comes to all digital download games, i think sony and microsoft will go all in for it but i doubt nintendo will go all in
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: darko on January 28, 2013, 11:59:19 am
Totally disagree. The reason the housing market collapsed has very little to do with the people buying and flipping houses. It had mostly to do with predatory lending practices and horrible, horrible banking rules and government regulatory decisions. It's true that there was a supply/demand imbalance, but that "bubble" was only possible because of the artificially inflated purchasing power of the consumer. There's a big difference between running up a couple of grand on a credit card and owing $500,000 - $1.5 million on a home. Ebay doesn't run like Freddie Mac.
Totally disagree. The reason the housing market collapsed has very little to do with the people buying and flipping houses. It had mostly to do with predatory lending practices and horrible, horrible banking rules and government regulatory decisions. It's true that there was a supply/demand imbalance, but that "bubble" was only possible because of the artificially inflated purchasing power of the consumer. There's a big difference between running up a couple of grand on a credit card and owing $500,000 - $1.5 million on a home. Ebay doesn't run like Freddie Mac.
I will freely admit that there was a lot more factors that went into the housing crash but I was looking at it from people who know nothing about houses are buying houses. Just because you can go out and spend 60 on FFVII doesn't mean that it makes good sense to do it in the same way that with the banks poor lending practices people were able to go out and spend 600,000 on a house that is either A not worth it or B they are not able to afford.... yeah let's just say that comics are a great example and move on :D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: turf on January 28, 2013, 12:53:43 pm
I was talking about the supply>demand factor in new housing. Not lending practices. I know there is a lot more to an actual problem than over inflated video game prices. There are a ton of people buying games and jacking up the price to flip them.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: darko on January 28, 2013, 01:04:36 pm
Ha. Apologies guys. I'm just feeling a little over technical today.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: turf on January 28, 2013, 01:57:58 pm
It's fine. I should've been more clear on what I meant.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: soera on January 28, 2013, 02:38:30 pm
WTF? I thought my mom deleted all those childhood pics. :(
Whatever...that was taken less than a week ago and you know it :)
Whether it is childhood or not I don't want to know why you have pictures of soera in his underwear on your computer!
That's not underwear, that's his usual garb.
Call it what you want but you're still the one with the picture!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on January 28, 2013, 10:58:16 pm
I agree that we are in a bubble. I've thought the same thing for a while. We just had a discussion that Earthbound was artificially overpriced. Moreover, the amount of limited editions is beginning to get similar to the foil cover comics of the 90s. The thing that really makes me think that there is a bubble is the amount of collectors who buy new, and leave the game sealed while it is in their backlog, and check prices before they start playing. This is the definition of prospecting. Either you would open it or you would wait until you were ready to play. Games decrease in value SO quickly now. Wait two months and you can get most games for $20 on amazon. It would be cheaper in the long run.
The collecting won't die but it will become more niche. This happened with comics. They are from from dead. When I lived in Denver I would frequent mile high comics. One of the biggest stores I have ever seen. In Tulsa, there are probably 20 comic shops (This is counting vintage stocks). But the prices are no longer unbelievably insane. I have purchased crazy awesome comics I thought I would never afford back in the 90s. This is the collecting I like.
I actually grew up a Nintendo kid. The genesis started winning me over and the Dreamcast cemented my love of SEGA. But one of the main reasons I collect for the Genesis is that if there was a bubble for that, it already popped. I have been picking up carts for a quarter. I recently picked up X-men 2, comix zone, rocket knight adventures, vectorman, and batman and robin in a bundle for $5. I can't do this as easily with Nintendo. I for one would welcome a bubble burst. Earthbound is not worth $200 cart only. I do not know of a single saturn game that is really worth what it goes for complete.
Comic collecting is live and well. It just left the mainstream. I do not miss stores being filled with prospectors. I do not miss paying $6 for a common back issue. Back issues should decrease in price, not increase. Moreover, the comic collecting community is tighter than ever before. I would not complain if the game collecting bubble burst.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: gecko101 on January 28, 2013, 11:34:02 pm
I personally HOPE that it dies. Prices are crazy now 'a' days. I could have sworn, I saw games dirt cheap to what I see them as now. Sometimes I will add a game to my wishlist on amazon, come back to it in a year, and its 7 dollars more expensive! I wouldn't mind if everyone else suddenly lost interest.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: madmax on January 30, 2013, 01:20:47 am
We are probably in a bubble. What I've come to realize lately is that collecting video games is really expensive. With the economy, lack of jobs, fiscal cliffs .etc Not everyone can afford such an expensive hobby.
If retro collecting slows down, prices should drop and then we can reap the benefits :D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: darko on January 30, 2013, 09:33:27 am
We are probably in a bubble. What I've come to realize lately is that collecting video games is really expensive.
Honestly, it's not that expensive of a hobby. Most other hobbies cost more than video game collecting. I think that's why it's so popular. It's accessible to many and the barrier of entry is pretty low.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jcalder8 on January 30, 2013, 10:00:34 am
We are probably in a bubble. What I've come to realize lately is that collecting video games is really expensive.
Honestly, it's not that expensive of a hobby. Most other hobbies cost more than video game collecting. I think that's why it's so popular. It's accessible to many and the barrier of entry is pretty low.
I agree with darko on this one, you can start a collection without too much money.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: insektmute on January 30, 2013, 10:47:44 am
I'm someone who started getting the itch only somewhat recently, but grew up with (and unfortunately sold) a lot of my NES, SNES, and PS1 stuff a long time ago.
One thing I've noticed though, is that everyone's definition of "retro" varies a bit. I don't have any interest in systems like Atari, Colecovision, NES, or N64, for instance, but have spent a lot of time figuring out which NeoGeo AES, PS1, PS2, Dreamcast, and Saturn games to hunt down, particularly Japanese imports. If I could afford it/had space, I'd be going for PCBs of Cave shooters, too. Point being, there's no singular "retro scene" in place, just a whole bunch of different niche markets, and supply/demand moves like the tides.
A lot of the ridiculous pricing is just down to certain series/games developing a particular reputation over time, along with sometimes low print runs (Ogre Battle on SNES, Valkyrie Profile on PS1, tons of Atlus games, etc), and sellers keep those prices jacked up because people are willing to pay that much. I don't like seeing so many $150+ sellers out there, but I also generally won't pay more than around $80 for anything.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: soera on January 30, 2013, 11:43:36 am
I think the variation of retro definition depends on the nostalgia. If you grew up with an NES, then that ends up your retro system ... same thing for SNES/Dreamcast/PS1 and what have you.
I have only paid $100 or more for 2 games in my entire collection. One of them is actually Ni no Kuni but the other one is Suikoden II with guide. I dont like seeing games that sell for more than that either cause, in the end, it really is just a video game and when it comes to it my backlog is so huge that if I dont pick up the super expensive ones, my library wouldnt know the difference.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on January 30, 2013, 12:21:18 pm
I still say Retro is anything that isn't manufactured any longer. :P
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jcalder8 on January 30, 2013, 12:32:17 pm
I only put retro in the topic because I don't think current gaming is going anywhere. When collecting started to move from NES to SNES the NES collectors were still active and then the SNES collectors joined in. What seems to have happened, at least in the forums that I have gone to in the past is that the NES and SNES have moved on to other interests and there has been no major injection of N64 collectors. It seems like the majority of the community is leaving or has already left but resellers are still buying and pricing games higher than what the market will be able to hold.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: insektmute on January 30, 2013, 01:30:27 pm
I think the variation of retro definition depends on the nostalgia. If you grew up with an NES, then that ends up your retro system ... same thing for SNES/Dreamcast/PS1 and what have you.
Which is basically what I was driving at. I'm in my early 30's, so I grew up mainly with the classic Nintendo, Sega, and SNK (a friend actually had a Neo!) stuff, as well as a pretty thriving arcade scene. So it makes sense that I'm mostly interested in 2D, 16-bit JRPGs, shmups, and fighting games :)
I'd imagine some of the shifts that happen in the market are old-school gamers dipping their toes into new stuff more heavily once in awhile, or newer gamers deciding to check out old stuff and having no proper frame of reference, too. Seems to also be a lot of variation between people who are OK with loose carts/discs vs. those of us who will only buy stuff in the box, near-mint, etc.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: libernullmal on January 30, 2013, 03:34:19 pm
I don't know because they keep coming up with machines that play snes/ genesis/nes or the atari with 1000 games or whatever. This would put them back in manufacturing in away.. but I don't believe Retro will die... because this kinda way seems to be done for years. I mean Antique Malls are still around.. an who would need an old ice pick other than to have it or holding paper towel roll.. darn you mom an your weird antique collections. You see Collecting old stuff will always be around..
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: tripredacus on January 31, 2013, 09:03:47 pm
I personally HOPE that it dies. Prices are crazy now 'a' days. I could have sworn, I saw games dirt cheap to what I see them as now. Sometimes I will add a game to my wishlist on amazon, come back to it in a year, and its 7 dollars more expensive! I wouldn't mind if everyone else suddenly lost interest.
This is happening with a lot of hobbies. The ones I am involved in: video games, transformers (action figures), arcade... I can see it but I know why it is happening. A big part of the problem is those "reality" shows that give uneducated opinions and often inflated facts. This is something worse than the Ebay age where people looked at listing price and not completed price. Now many people have an over-inflated sense of value on their stuff, which is causing this price hike problem.
Ebay is worse now because of fools and shills. There was one well documented case of an uncommon Transformers bootleg selling for hundreds of dollars more than it was worth, partly because of this. Let's not even bring up that NES-001 thing.
Another problem is that some cities have gotten retro retail shops, like mine, that is over-inflating prices on things they sell. Who in their right mind would buy SMB3 (NES) for $25? Well the shop near me sells it at that price. Its a problem and I'm not sure if the market will correct itself soon. I certainly hope so!
It is still worrisome.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: gecko101 on January 31, 2013, 10:39:27 pm
oh yes, these retro game stores that inflate prices have to stop, I really don't come into a store that has prices like ebay, I'll go to ebay for that.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on January 31, 2013, 10:42:58 pm
Goodwill is pretty much the only place I can find good deals on video games anymore. Even the local flea market sellers thinks they have gold on their hands if they come across an NES cartridge.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: libernullmal on January 31, 2013, 11:40:42 pm
retro games stores seem to base their price on ebay or Amazon.. I once walked into Pawnshops that do the same thing... It was like really your going to sell me this PSP for 150(awhile back) an I could get this from ebay for 125?? Really I couldn't get him to go below 140 an pretty much left the place with a sour taste in my mouth....
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: darko on January 31, 2013, 11:59:03 pm
I was pondering video game pricing earlier this evening. It's pretty much a given than if you collect you more than likely grew up playing video games. Video games are more than likely going to continue on as one of Generation Y's (and younger) primary sources of entertainment. This will, in turn, provide a fairly stable marketplace and a perpetual pool of collectors for years to come. The number of rare titles will diminish as we progress further away from physical media, but there will more than likely always be some form of demand present. Video games are part of what define Generation Y and most of us will continue to purchase and play video games until we are physically or mentally unable to do so.
Demand will fluctuate from console to console and from game to game. Prices will (obviously) follow demand. However, I have a very difficult time believing that we are in a true "bubble". As those of us who collect continue to grow older and our disposable incomes increase, it will become easier and easier to justify the price of what we want be it video games, cars, houses, etc. This should keep prices pretty stable on an average basis. Does this mean that Earthbound will always be over $200 for cart only? No. However, I highly doubt it will permanently fall below the $60-$100 range.
History tells us that the best time to buy games at a discount is during the first few years of a new console cycle. When new systems come out the games for their predecessors drop as stores make way for new inventory. It's all about supply versus demand coupled with what someone is willing to pay. Unfortunately, I don't see an enormous bubble like many of you seem to.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: soera on February 01, 2013, 09:38:27 am
Every place now is jumping on the bandwagon as far as selling games for ebay prices. One of the Goodwills in my area recently got DW 1-4 in box as well as a copy of Sword master in box. I was damn excited ... til I saw the price.
I tend to agree that this bubble will never totally pop. Ill get Earthbound one day but its going to be a lucky find day. Same with Rayearth and Centy.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 01, 2013, 07:24:49 pm
I was pondering video game pricing earlier this evening. It's pretty much a given than if you collect you more than likely grew up playing video games. Video games are more than likely going to continue on as one of Generation Y's (and younger) primary sources of entertainment. This will, in turn, provide a fairly stable marketplace and a perpetual pool of collectors for years to come. The number of rare titles will diminish as we progress further away from physical media, but there will more than likely always be some form of demand present. Video games are part of what define Generation Y and most of us will continue to purchase and play video games until we are physically or mentally unable to do so.
Demand will fluctuate from console to console and from game to game. Prices will (obviously) follow demand. However, I have a very difficult time believing that we are in a true "bubble". As those of us who collect continue to grow older and our disposable incomes increase, it will become easier and easier to justify the price of what we want be it video games, cars, houses, etc. This should keep prices pretty stable on an average basis. Does this mean that Earthbound will always be over $200 for cart only? No. However, I highly doubt it will permanently fall below the $60-$100 range.
History tells us that the best time to buy games at a discount is during the first few years of a new console cycle. When new systems come out the games for their predecessors drop as stores make way for new inventory. It's all about supply versus demand coupled with what someone is willing to pay. Unfortunately, I don't see an enormous bubble like many of you seem to.
I think what you say makes sense. However, I do not think that generations beyond Gen Y will be too into collecting games (EDIT: games before their time). I am in Gen Y (at least in some definitions of beginning year ranges... I was born in 86) and I have absolutely no interest in collecting atari, colecovision, etc. People rarely collect what they did not have growing up.
Also, as years go on. More people leave collecting than get into it. The comic shop I go to every wednesday will fairly often get boxes upon boxes donated by customers whose wives (and sometimes husbands... but mostly wives) demand they get rid of those boxes of useless %*^&.
With disposable income comes the potential to collect. With life comes the abandonment of collecting. Just in the short time I have been collecting, I have seen numerous people sell off their collection. There is even a youtube tag going around asking "how much is too much". You can see a lot of people on the fence about keeping their collections and the frustrations they have.
At some point, more people leave than get into the hobby.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: tripredacus on February 01, 2013, 08:14:51 pm
Goodwill is pretty much the only place I can find good deals on video games anymore. Even the local flea market sellers thinks they have gold on their hands if they come across an NES cartridge.
Thrift stores are primarily where I get my games from nowadays. Most of the time the people there are older and don't know what things are. For example, I got Pokemon blue for a quarter last year sometime. The only difference is Goodwill actually knows what some things are, since they have that auction site. But that doesn't mean some deals still can be found.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 09:16:34 pm
Some people have, just like they did with comic books. Also it's not the hoarders that is the problem it's the people who are trying to make a quick buck.
Massive flashbacks here to the 90's "speculator boom" that practically killed the entire industry. I remember a lot of companies who went under as a result, too - all that money coming in, then poof, all gone, and tons of companies left with thousands upon thousands of overprinted books that you couldn't even give away to people once the dust cleared.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 01, 2013, 09:52:52 pm
Some people have, just like they did with comic books. Also it's not the hoarders that is the problem it's the people who are trying to make a quick buck.
Massive flashbacks here to the 90's "speculator boom" that practically killed the entire industry. I remember a lot of companies who went under as a result, too - all that money coming in, then poof, all gone, and tons of companies left with thousands upon thousands of overprinted books that you couldn't even give away to people once the dust cleared.
Heh, I'm a big collector of both comics and video games. And if retro games are anything like comic books, then in just a few years retro-games will be dirt cheap when the market busts (except for those truly rare games that really do deserve a high price, the same can be said for comics).
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 01, 2013, 09:56:41 pm
Some people have, just like they did with comic books. Also it's not the hoarders that is the problem it's the people who are trying to make a quick buck.
Massive flashbacks here to the 90's "speculator boom" that practically killed the entire industry. I remember a lot of companies who went under as a result, too - all that money coming in, then poof, all gone, and tons of companies left with thousands upon thousands of overprinted books that you couldn't even give away to people once the dust cleared.
Although, to be fair, I think the companies killed the industry more than the speculators. Speculators are probably a sign of a thriving pop culture medium.
The comic industry was killed a little by the direct market distributors. Comics were no longer able to be sent back to the publisher (encouraging back issue bins) and the amount of books needed to order was cut back. This allowed several smaller shops into the fray that were not able to sustain. Two-thirds of all direct-market stores shut down largely due to this.
Marvel's bankruptcy didn't help either. However, this wasn't due to finances as much as Ron Perelman buying the company with dummy corporations.
The publishers messed things up by not keeping track of delays of their crossovers. The Deathmate crossover is largely considered one of the biggest reasons of the bubble busting. The first issue sold well. Stores preordered mountains of the second issue, but it was delayed so long no one cared. Stores were left with many unsellable comics. Deathmate is not the only instance, but the magnitude of this one example is staggering.
The video game market is very different. The distribution system for games and comics are VERY different. And Limited editions are no where near the level of danger. The limited editions, in most cases, are reserved for preorders to protect the shops.
Speculators did not kill comics. The comic industry killed comics. I would suggest reading Fred Van Lente's Comic Book Comics if interested. He also goes over an insanely fascinating exploration of why comics flourished in Japan and started to die in the USA. http://www.amazon.com/Comic-Book-History-Comics-Lente/dp/1613771975/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359773562&sr=8-1&keywords=fred+van+lente+comic+book+comics
Ultimately, I think the word "bubble" is being used in two different ways on this thread. Some are saying that the industry will crash. Some say that due to high prices, people will slowly just look elsewhere, causing the retro gaming medium to shrink considerably. But ultimately, most shops and the industry are not tied to the success of retro games nearly as much as comics were.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: wag on February 03, 2013, 04:48:32 am
There's going to come a point in time, when collectors can not get what they want (unopened, boxed, manual, no scratches, etc.). It then comes down to how much cash it takes to separate a fan from the game they want to own. I would not buy a game if I didn't intend on playing it, so I guess in that regard I am not a true collector -- but if I see something I want, I build up a solid amount of determination to get it.
I own a few games, mostly disc-based, but I know for a fact I think every so often about which of those titles I absolutely could not be separated from. I'm going to play them again. When I was younger, I cycled through game via the Gamestop trade-ins, just to get the newest whatever game it was. I gave up some gems, and I regretted it when I suddenly found myself wanting those games back -- usually shelling out more than the original cost to re-acquire. I haven't traded in or sold a game since recognizing that as a possibility. How many others feel this way, and will not be selling games anymore?
There's a good chance, that with more and more digital collections, there will be some who are willing to part ways with there physical copies, with such huge cash gains on certain games. Still, there's the idea of owning something physical. Digital is only available as long as your console works, and as long as Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony continue supporting them online. For that reason, physical will continue to dominate the libraries, but there's no way that all collectors can get what they want. Expectations will lower, and the bar will be reset. Something, something, something... don't even know what the original topic was.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: insektmute on February 03, 2013, 01:59:45 pm
Although, to be fair, I think the companies killed the industry more than the speculators. Speculators are probably a sign of a thriving pop culture medium.
The comic industry was killed a little by the direct market distributors. Comics were no longer able to be sent back to the publisher (encouraging back issue bins) and the amount of books needed to order was cut back. This allowed several smaller shops into the fray that were not able to sustain. Two-thirds of all direct-market stores shut down largely due to this.
Marvel's bankruptcy didn't help either. However, this wasn't due to finances as much as Ron Perelman buying the company with dummy corporations.
The publishers messed things up by not keeping track of delays of their crossovers. The Deathmate crossover is largely considered one of the biggest reasons of the bubble busting. The first issue sold well. Stores preordered mountains of the second issue, but it was delayed so long no one cared. Stores were left with many unsellable comics. Deathmate is not the only instance, but the magnitude of this one example is staggering.
I don't really see the two as mutually exclusive, so much as wrapped up in bed together. It's sort of like Call of Duty or casual games - it starts as a sign of a healthy, thriving industry, until the market shifts too dramatically to accommodate that audience. Endless streams of variant covers, chromium covers, Bad Girl comics that wanted to be the next Shi or Lady Death, dozens upon dozens of #1 issues and product lines designed to play into that "first issues sell more" idea, and so on. I remember going to conventions back then, and as the craze took off, most vendors (and publishers) were trying to cash in on that market, get a piece of the pie. I'd walk the tables, and literally had a dozen places to choose from if I wanted to pay anywhere from $15-75 for just about any of the "hot" comics at the time.
For a little while, it seemed healthy. A lot of new blood coming in, especially pre-teens and HS kids, many of whom were attracted by the blood and boobs that became commonplace. I won't deny that I was pretty sucked in by it for a little while. The problem with an industry boom is that it's unsustainable - delays, as you mentioned, played a role, but so did declining quality. In my case, by the time 1997 rolled around, I'd grown up enough to where it suddenly occurred to me, "Wow. A lot of this stuff... really really sucks!" So I stopped buying it. All of it, until I got back into comics in the mid-2000's. When I looked back, dozens upon dozens of companies and retailers had died before the end of the decade or just shortly after, and Marvel and DC floundered like crazy for much longer than I'd expected.
When publishers, retailers, and fans are all focused so heavily in one direction, there's going to be an eventual fallout of some kind, if not necessarily a crash. Retro and niche games, I think, are fairly safe - things ebb and flow with supply and demand, but I've seen a number of threads on vgcollect and other forums that make it pretty clear that regardless of pricing trends, there is and will always be an enthusiastic and thriving scene. Modern, current/next gen games, on the other hand? I'm much less optimistic.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 03, 2013, 02:24:07 pm
I don't really see the two as mutually exclusive, so much as wrapped up in bed together. It's sort of like Call of Duty or casual games - it starts as a sign of a healthy, thriving industry, until the market shifts too dramatically to accommodate that audience. Endless streams of variant covers, chromium covers, Bad Girl comics that wanted to be the next Shi or Lady Death, dozens upon dozens of #1 issues and product lines designed to play into that "first issues sell more" idea, and so on. I remember going to conventions back then, and as the craze took off, most vendors (and publishers) were trying to cash in on that market, get a piece of the pie. I'd walk the tables, and literally had a dozen places to choose from if I wanted to pay anywhere from $15-75 for just about any of the "hot" comics at the time.
For a little while, it seemed healthy. A lot of new blood coming in, especially pre-teens and HS kids, many of whom were attracted by the blood and boobs that become commonplace. I won't deny that I was pretty sucked in by it for a little while. The problem with an industry boom is that it's unsustainable - delays, as you mentioned, played a role, but so did declining quality. In my case, by the time 1997 rolled around, I'd grown up enough to where it suddenly occurred to me, "Wow. A lot of this stuff... really really sucks!" So I stopped buying it. All of it, until I got back into comics in the mid-2000's.
When publishers, retailers, and fans are all focused so heavily in one direction, there's going to be an eventual fallout of some kind, if not necessarily a crash. Retro and niche games, I think, are fairly safe - things ebb and flow with supply and demand, but I've seen a number of threads on vgcollect and other forums that make it pretty clear that regardless of pricing trends, there is and will always be an enthusiastic and thriving scene. Modern, current/next gen games, on the other hand? I'm much less optimistic.
None of what you say do I really disagree with. But I can't say that the modern industry will die or that I am even a little reserved about the modern industry. What's happening now is the same that was happening before.
I think this generation of gaming is the best it has been in years. This is all a case of opinion. But I have actually looked at this generation as a new 16-bit generation in terms of quality. Dead Space, Elder Scrolls, Batman, Uncharted, Halo, etc are fantastic series. And spread over several studios. I actually feel very optimistic.
In terms of Call of Duty. Activision cashes in. That has been their MOs for a long time. They just do yearly releases. Call of Duty is on the same schedule as Madden. A new game every year (Black Ops on even years MW on odd years). Activision has always been about cash-ins. I mean, look at Activision's game library in the 80s (LJN anyone), the 90s a lot of movie cash ins, then they cashed in on Tony Hawk, then Guitar Hero, now Call of Duty. In all honesty, the call of duty cash in seems the most reserved Activision has been. I'm just waiting for an Activision EA merger. The perfect marriage.
The mid 2000s were FANTASTIC for comics though. Brian K. Vaughan, Joss Whedon, Kirkman. Fantastic stuff.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: insektmute on February 03, 2013, 04:23:51 pm
I think this generation of gaming is the best it has been in years. This is all a case of opinion. But I have actually looked at this generation as a new 16-bit generation in terms of quality. Dead Space, Elder Scrolls, Batman, Uncharted, Halo, etc are fantastic series. And spread over several studios. I actually feel very optimistic.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are tons of great games this gen. What worries me is more related to industry behavior. Being required to login to a 3rd party site outside of Live/PSN, for example. What happens to your ability to play that game after a certain point? At what point will we lose the ability to download patches, DLC, or re-download purchased games once the PS3 and 360 are retired? How many more games will be relegated to digital-only release due to being 2D or only offering Japanese voiceovers?
As far as COD goes, it's not a new thing for them to cash-in and milk the crap out of their franchises, but companies like Activision and EA have a strong tendency to oversaturate the market with garbage and overshadow niche games and new series. Look at stuff like Mirror's Edge or Beyond Good & Evil - people have been waiting years for sequels, and things get pushed back further and further and further in favor of focusing on first-person shooters and casual mini-games. Put simply, for every gigantic money-grubbing franchise, there's a Valkyria Chronicles out there that's lost in the shuffle. I get that these are businesses and they want to make money, and this isn't a new thing, but as a gamer, it's just really sad to watch.
You could argue that people buy what they like and the market responds, but people just aren't that smart or proactive. Most people respond to what's being waved in their face, and will pick from the options presented to them, not from the options they've researched and chosen. Japan and Europe aren't any different, it's just that companies generally offer different options to those audiences based on what their marketing departments think they'll be receptive enough to sink millions of dollars into year after year.
Quote
The mid 2000s were FANTASTIC for comics though. Brian K. Vaughan, Joss Whedon, Kirkman. Fantastic stuff.
Very true, and that's really what brought me back to comics. I was absolutely overjoyed to read stuff like Y: The Last Man, Queen & Country, and Transmetropolitan, and see that sort of thing actually selling relatively well.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 03, 2013, 04:31:43 pm
I think this generation of gaming is the best it has been in years. This is all a case of opinion. But I have actually looked at this generation as a new 16-bit generation in terms of quality. Dead Space, Elder Scrolls, Batman, Uncharted, Halo, etc are fantastic series. And spread over several studios. I actually feel very optimistic.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are tons of great games this gen. What worries me is more related to industry behavior. Being required to login to a 3rd party site outside of Live/PSN, for example. What happens to your ability to play that game after a certain point? At what point will we lose the ability to download patches, DLC, or re-download purchased games once the PS3 and 360 are retired? How many more games will be relegated to digital-only release due to being 2D or only offering Japanese voiceovers?
As far as COD goes, it's not a new thing for them to cash-in and milk the crap out of their franchises, but companies like Activision and EA have a strong tendency to oversaturate the market with garbage and overshadow niche games and new series. Look at stuff like Mirror's Edge or Beyond Good & Evil - people have been waiting years for sequels, and things get pushed back further and further and further in favor of focusing on first-person shooters and casual mini-games. Put simply, for every gigantic money-grubbing franchise, there's a Valkyria Chronicles out there that's lost in the shuffle. I get that these are businesses and they want to make money, and this isn't a new thing, but as a gamer, it's just really sad to watch.
You could argue that people buy what they like and the market responds, but people just aren't that smart or proactive. Most people respond to what's being waved in their face, and will pick from the options presented to them, not from the options they've researched and chosen. Japan and Europe aren't any different, it's just that companies generally offer different options to those audiences based on what their marketing departments think they'll be receptive enough to sink millions of dollars into year after year.
Quote
The mid 2000s were FANTASTIC for comics though. Brian K. Vaughan, Joss Whedon, Kirkman. Fantastic stuff.
Very true, and that's really what brought me back to comics. I was absolutely overjoyed to read stuff like Y: The Last Man, Queen & Country, and Transmetropolitan, and see that sort of thing actually selling relatively well.
Agreed.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: htimreimer on February 04, 2013, 02:13:59 am
cod is a sad series of games because its the same game every time with very little improvements every year and reviewers give these games score and people buy these games because the score the reviewers gives it and its funny to see these reviewers trying to find something good to say about the newest cod game and this year was the moral choice system something that every game has
I think this generation of gaming is the best it has been in years. This is all a case of opinion. But I have actually looked at this generation as a new 16-bit generation in terms of quality. Dead Space, Elder Scrolls, Batman, Uncharted, Halo, etc are fantastic series. And spread over several studios. I actually feel very optimistic.
i have not played most of those games but i did play a bit of oblivion and completed the story line in skyrim and these games are full of bad business practices that we should not be supported like not bug testing the game properly and there weird hate against game patches also they rehash plot points in there story like the player being a prisoner and i'm sorry to say but oblivion and skyrim are mediocre games and thats how i feel about this generation of gaming, its was mediocre
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: akhero47 on February 18, 2013, 03:23:41 pm
Hopefully it is. Less demand = lower prices for us hardcore collectors :D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: jcalder8 on February 18, 2013, 09:28:48 pm
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: thegamecollector1 on February 24, 2013, 04:42:58 am
Here's my story as a collector who collected (via presents), stopped collecting, started again (not picky, collecting everything in sight), stopped again, started again (CIB only), stopped again and is now planning to start yet again (only certain titles that I've really really enjoyed and liked my experience so much that I either know I want to play them all the way through again, or have already done so many times):
I am the type of person who loves to collect video games because when I was a kid I was always allowed to keep all my games and systems to replay later. My grandparents were smart and knew if I did that it would save them tons of money on games. Instead of buying me a new game every week or month and trading in old games for pennies, they would only give them to me on birthdays, Christmas or occasional yard sale finds and make sure they chose well. Because of this method I almost never got any bad or boring games in my youth and had plenty of time to become fully interested in each.
In my mid teenage years my grandma went into the hospital and my grandpa was always going there too busy for me, so I started to buy my own games from used game stores and still seemed to have good luck. Then I found out about emulators and sold everything I had that could be emulated well. Basically everything pre-Saturn.
When I got my Safeway job I started buying physical games again, this time having an interest in collecting consoles and getting as many games as I could play on them. I started with Atari 2600 and worked my way to expensive items like Neo Geo AES which I only ever had 3 games for - the ones that came in my system lot. The worst was when Game Crazy started liquidating all their "classic plastic" and I bought every single game I didn't already have since they were so cheap at $1 or less each. I tried every game for about 5 minutes to see which ones were good, mediocre or bad.
Losing my Safeway job and regretting filling up my shelving with junk I decided to get rid of the whole cart/disc only collection and any CIB games I didn't like. I eventually got my first caregiving job and started to collect CIB only, using funds from the carts to get me started. I mainly went after games I had in my original childhood collection and it was great to look at boxes and manuals for games I had cart only as a kid. The problem was that I bought these games too fast. Thinking I'd keep my job forever I started to use credit card funds to get everything "now" while I can still find it and pay it back later. Well that put me in debt, my hours were cut, I lost my job to another employee she liked better and had to look for a new one. I started selling games I had spent all that money on just to support myself and never did pay off those credit cards all the way.
Before I had my apartment I was cooped up in this little room at my current job. I didn't have room in here to collect so I continued my sales even though my cashflow was much higher. Unable to stand working 7 days a week and wanting my own space I had my days cut and got my current apartment. It was just great for a while but then my hours got cut and I started getting low on money. In this time I've sold off almost my entire CIB game collection for everything before this new generation and the one before it + Gamecube (not so easy to run burn discs or run ISOs for that system), turning to modded systems, flashcarts and burned games to keep gaming on through hard times.
With a new job starting and the knowledge that I will have greater income again I will start again, but this time the collection will be much more refined, protected and better displayed. I would like these complete in box top titles to have video game box protectors, guides when available, cart & disc only copies & loose manuals for regular use and maybe even complete in box import versions and re-releases (example - both gold & gray Legend of Zelda & Zelda II + japanese FDS packaging whether the floppies still work or not). And most important of all: decrease the frequency at which I buy games so I can take the time to play or re-play every single game I get. I'd like to record my footage and edit it for some type of series. Having physical differing packaging to show in these videos plus manuals and guides would make it so much more interesting as it would be a bit different from some emulation gamer just doing another boring Let's Play. My girlfriend doesn't have much experience with console games so it is also interesting to her if I would let her play these games as I get them too.
So yeah it would be great if prices were lower when I start up again, but since I will be focusing less on quantity and more on quality experiences (so I don't have another sell-back nightmare of hard work) I will spend less on games each month, making prices for each not matter as much and allowing me to build up some financial cushion reducing the probability that I will have to sell anything again at all. Another good thing about this is that my collection will take up less space, being a bit smaller. If someone could stay dedicated to just one retro game a month and really go all-out collecting items related to just that one game, all of a sudden that one set becomes more attractive and impressive than a giant horde of games that are in random condition and not taken care of. The games become more taken care of and treasured rather than unappreciated junk someone got just to say they have a lot. If someone was to sell a game complete in box with guide and any other related goodies, they can usually get a premium for it rather than just a regular price. People will pay more to get those extra maps and guides that not every CIB copy comes with.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sens on March 02, 2013, 02:13:35 pm
I don't see why this is surprising. It's disappointing, yes, but every market does this. Even after markets reach a maturity, then become over saturated, then die down, and repeat.
If you just like collecting games, go to flea markets and thrift stores (sometimes craigslist). Those people don't know or care really what the current market value for games are (with exception of select titles), so you can get them for dirt cheap.
I got mega man X2, TMNT IV, Yoshi's Island, and Captain Commando for a grand total of $18. Someone even gave me a free copy of Intelligent Qube. Granted that's mostly luck, but pricing hikes only exist in Markets that are saturated with products like Ebay where the buyer is the one that created the price and demand for those "Rare games" in the first place. It only takes one person to pay a high price for a game on auctions sites like that to set a precedent for sellers and buyers that whatever game they are looking for is worth that high price.
If you're a re-seller. Do the same thing. As far as online/collecting markets go it's the perfect time to sell. Most games can be found for dirt cheap and turned around and sold on ebay for pure profit. The games don't even have to be in great condition to get someone to pay market price for it. It's a sellers market right now if you can find products cheap. Depending on the game a good collector can take 3-4 games out of their collection and make $200.
If anything would have effected the market right now it would be virtual consoles and roms of any game known to man. That hasn't hurt the market hardly at all. I can download every Snes game ever made for free but people are still dropping $200 on Wild Guns, Earthbound, and Megaman x3.
Nostalgia isn't going anywhere until our generation dies. Older games are most likely going to hold some intrinsic value based on that. It's not like games now where you can find a box full of Sealed GOW 3 for $50. Retro games weren't as mass produced then so their numbers are always going to be increasingly limited. Add that with Nostalgia and theres always going to be a market for it. Same goes with collecting.
Try not to take it so seriously. They're just games afterall.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: disgaeniac on March 02, 2013, 03:52:35 pm
I don't see why this is surprising. It's disappointing, yes, but every market does this. Even after markets reach a maturity, then become over saturated, then die down, and repeat.
If you just like collecting games, go to flea markets and thrift stores (sometimes craigslist). Those people don't know or care really what the current market value for games are (with exception of select titles), so you can get them for dirt cheap.
I got mega man X2, TMNT IV, Yoshi's Island, and Captain Commando for a grand total of $18. Someone even gave me a free copy of Intelligent Qube. Granted that's mostly luck, but pricing hikes only exist in Markets that are saturated with products like Ebay where the buyer is the one that created the price and demand for those "Rare games" in the first place. It only takes one person to pay a high price for a game on auctions sites like that to set a precedent for sellers and buyers that whatever game they are looking for is worth that high price.
If you're a re-seller. Do the same thing. As far as online/collecting markets go it's the perfect time to sell. Most games can be found for dirt cheap and turned around and sold on ebay for pure profit. The games don't even have to be in great condition to get someone to pay market price for it. It's a sellers market right now if you can find products cheap. Depending on the game a good collector can take 3-4 games out of their collection and make $200.
If anything would have effected the market right now it would be virtual consoles and roms of any game known to man. That hasn't hurt the market hardly at all. I can download every Snes game ever made for free but people are still dropping $200 on Wild Guns, Earthbound, and Megaman x3.
Nostalgia isn't going anywhere until our generation dies. Older games are most likely going to hold some intrinsic value based on that. It's not like games now where you can find a box full of Sealed GOW 3 for $50. Retro games weren't as mass produced then so their numbers are always going to be increasingly limited. Add that with Nostalgia and theres always going to be a market for it. Same goes with collecting.
Try not to take it so seriously. They're just games afterall.
QFT!
Nice post :)
I found myself liking & agreeing with just about all of it!
Btw - Welcome to the site, Sens! 8)
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on January 07, 2014, 12:24:08 am
I started collecting in 2008 (not really hardcore until 2010, but whatever) and when I started retro games were abundant all over the place. I remember walking into goodwill stores and seeing people's entire NES and SNES collections, sometimes hundreds of games just sitting on the shelf out in the open. At the time I didn't collect for either, but I remember seeing games like Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy III, TMNT4, and even Chrono Trigger on several separate occasions. That is because few people were collecting and even fewer were reselling old games. Gradually since around 2010 it has gotten harder to find games cheap and certain games have become insanely overpriced, many of them common. The worst part is that people are actually paying these insane prices, encouraging more and more sellers to price their games even higher! There is a local second hand store sort of like Entertainmart or Go Hastings that gets a healthy amount of retro games in, however they price almost all of them 30% to 200% higher than some of the highest BIN on ebay. And still, these games rarely last for more than a week on the shelf. What this tells me is that retro collecting has become so popular and in demand that people are no longer caring that they are dropping $100 on a fairly common game because they want it that bad. Sadly I don't think the boom in retro game collecting has even hit its peak. Now will it die down eventually, yes. But when is totally unclear, and what I am seeing right now is the exact opposite of a hobby that is losing steam.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on January 07, 2014, 08:15:51 am
First off, I did not know about this post until Bikingjahuty commented to re populate it. Thanks Bikingjahuty :) I have sat and read this entire forum and now (20 minutes later), and found this forum probably the most interesting, exciting, depressing and mysterious forum yet on this site. It has me thinking about a lot of different things like: maybe I should stop buying games and save that money for a house, or for retirement or something, but my other voice lets me remember I love games regardless. Physical games that is.
Oh, the war between Darko and Soera had me cracking up so bad that I woke up my wife and got cursed out for being on this stupid game site again lol ;D
We never know what the future holds and time changes every day, but I know I read an article literally 2 weeks ago about a guy who has been collecting games since the 80s, and holds over 300,000 games and consoles in his collection. He was pricing his collection to current markets, and his collection is valued at 700 to 800 thousand dollars. Basically, it's a retirement investment at this point. He said he is still collecting but is in his late 30s and is considering selling half of his collection to have investment or savings money because who knows if health care, 401k, and all that stuff will even exist when we are old (matter fact, even if the earth will exist). But the universe is so huge and massive that humans are just a small part of it anyways.
But this has me thinking...I know last year I was at a good will looking at a 64 in the store, and this kid probably about 12 came up to me and asked if I play old games. I told him I love them and he was asking me questions about them. He said he has a 64 and plays games for it all the time and does not play new stuff. I had to educated him that there were systems before the 64 and ps1 because he had no idea. He was so amazed that there were systems before the 64 era that he wanted to play them. I had a regular NES controller in my hand I found and I gave it to him and told him what it was for and he was so excited. I think as long as there is always younger kids that were born in the year 1998 and beyond playing video games, there will always be a market.
I do personally feel like the 360, ps3 and Wii era is the last successful era of video games. I think that if the ps4 and xbox one are not the last physical game consoles, that what ever comes out after those will be the last physical consoles and it will all be pc gaming or digital some how and that it will kill the then-current market but even at that time, I feel there will still be a market for retro collecting and playing even at the time of no new physical gaming.
Anyone born after 2010 will entire a brand new world that they will eventually build a new world of digital. Probably by the 2030s, most things we seen on sci fy movies may start to happen. Maybe then when the generation from kids born between 2020-2025 are grown, there will be no retro collecting...
Just as a side note if anyone is interested, I think that even tho' it used to sound crazy, the thought of robots or Cylons becoming into existence as a regular massive population just does not seem crazy to me anymore. Every day, they try to find some type of technology that is so far from humans. Google glass, Smart Cars , netflix, smart phone apps that can lock and unlock your house door, some people have digital chips installed into them already, its getting crazy. I get so tired of going places, and everyone expects me to have a facebook, tablet, a smart phone, etc. and laugh at me when they find out I don't have either one and that I still own a vcr/dvd recorder combo and I still actually watch VHS tapes sometimes. My own kids asked me how did I survive as a kid since there was no internet back then? They were under the impression that the internet controls electricity and everything in the world.
How much can video games really improve from the ps4 and xbox one????
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: Jakandsig on January 08, 2014, 11:54:43 am
You do have a very interesting point, but it only applies to certain companies, every saturation point Atari consoles seem to never go through and that may be fans are usually buyng and reselling more than resellers, this also applies to the 3DO, TG16(although a few of the cd games are hmm.) and the Genesis, although the Genesis is seeming to get closer having had price raises the last two years.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: theflea on January 10, 2014, 05:35:34 am
I remember a time when people thought it was stupid to collect old video games, But I still did because it's what I loved. Now its one of the biggest collecting craze on the planet, I personally love to talk to people who share my passion. And if the classic Game collecting bubble bursts and prices drop and less people collect, It won't change me. I'll be still hunting down those games missing from my collection and still enjoy playing new and old games. I collected video games before it was popular and I'll continue even if everyone stops and no one cares about them.
I collect these classic (and modern) games and consoles because I love them, even the bad ones. I love to play them, the art, the designs and the history. A collector should be collecting these games because they love them not because its the latest "fad".
If retro collecting died tomorrow and prices plummeted how would this effect me? Not in the slightest bit. I would end up buying many games that escaped me because the prices where to high. I would keep on collecting because it was what I loved to do. ;)
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on January 10, 2014, 08:01:52 am
I remember a time when people thought it was stupid to collect old video games, But I still did because it's what I loved. Now its one of the biggest collecting craze on the planet, I personally love to talk to people who share my passion. And if the classic Game collecting bubble bursts and prices drop and less people collect, It won't change me. I'll be still hunting down those games missing from my collection and still enjoy playing new and old games. I collected video games before it was popular and I'll continue even if everyone stops and no one cares about them.
I collect these classic (and modern) games and consoles because I love them, even the bad ones. I love to play them, the art, the designs and the history. A collector should be collecting these games because they love them not because its the latest "fad".
If retro collecting died tomorrow and prices plummeted how would this effect me? Not in the slightest bit. I would end up buying many games that escaped me because the prices where to high. I would keep on collecting because it was what I loved to do. ;)
:)
Got a question to you Flea. I know you have a huge collection. What was the first type of games that you started collecting if you remember? Like what system, series, type, etc.? I thing thats a cool question to ask some one with a massive collection
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: stethebubble on January 10, 2014, 11:45:03 pm
I remember a time when people thought it was stupid to collect old video games, But I still did because it's what I loved. Now its one of the biggest collecting craze on the planet, I personally love to talk to people who share my passion. And if the classic Game collecting bubble bursts and prices drop and less people collect, It won't change me. I'll be still hunting down those games missing from my collection and still enjoy playing new and old games. I collected video games before it was popular and I'll continue even if everyone stops and no one cares about them.
I collect these classic (and modern) games and consoles because I love them, even the bad ones. I love to play them, the art, the designs and the history. A collector should be collecting these games because they love them not because its the latest "fad".
If retro collecting died tomorrow and prices plummeted how would this effect me? Not in the slightest bit. I would end up buying many games that escaped me because the prices where to high. I would keep on collecting because it was what I loved to do. ;)
you're pretty much my gaming hero
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: ffmaniac2050 on January 14, 2014, 09:45:04 am
This thread is definitely awesome. I've been telling a buddy of mine that prices are so inflated we will begin to see people start selling everything off. I actually manage a retro game shop and I am starting to see customers who purchased retro consoles and games return them because they grew bored. It is only a matter of time before disc based games are the new fad.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on January 14, 2014, 07:33:25 pm
Now its one of the biggest collecting craze on the planet, I personally love to talk to people who share my passion.
If retro collecting died tomorrow and prices plummeted how would this effect me?
These two sentences stood out to me. I would be a little sad if retro collecting died tomorrow. I currently live in Dallas which surprisingly has a lot of culture for retro game collecting. If it did die, I would miss this.
I have to admit to missing some things about comic collecting. Back when Wizard and Toy Fair were big magazines. Malls had comic shops. There was always someone to talk to and share your hobby with. Now there are the same 5 people who go to my local comic shop every wednesday...
Thanks Flea. I kind of neglected the good things that being in a craze brings.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: slothingXPIG on January 15, 2014, 12:48:04 am
You know I hate to say it but I'm one of those guys who don't get on much but I still collect and would never stop but I'm not sure what made me slow down on being on this site.. It is awesome and I would like to start posting more on here but some things pulling me away... Honestly I hope it does die down.. So I can get better deals and make hunting for them more fun... I hope this site never dies down tho..
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: karyann on January 15, 2014, 08:35:44 am
These two sentences stood out to me. I would be a little sad if retro collecting died tomorrow. I currently live in Dallas which surprisingly has a lot of culture for retro game collecting. If it did die, I would miss this.
I have to admit to missing some things about comic collecting. Back when Wizard and Toy Fair were big magazines. Malls had comic shops. There was always someone to talk to and share your hobby with. Now there are the same 5 people who go to my local comic shop every wednesday...
Thanks Flea. I kind of neglected the good things that being in a craze brings.
Don't worry, even if the big fad dies, there will always be people who like to collect. Those following the fad will stop, those who love collecting because they love collecting will stay! And I believe when the fad dies, Vgcollect will still be there. So we'll still have each other ;D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: turf on January 15, 2014, 11:42:20 am
And I believe when the fad dies, Vgcollect will still be there. So we'll still have each other ;D
This makes me feel all warm and fuzzy
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: justin8301 on January 15, 2014, 09:46:07 pm
This may sound horrible, but I hope it does die. There are too many people out there collecting right now just because its "in" or "cool" causing the prices to become over inflated. I blame the hipsters, they pay too much for everything they buy! If Urban Outfitters sold video games I think we'd see Earthbound at $400 for cart only. Once the fad dies off I might be able to afford the games I want!. Sorry for my stupid and illogical rant.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: stethebubble on January 15, 2014, 10:32:48 pm
This may sound horrible, but I hope it does die. There are too many people out there collecting right now just because its "in" or "cool" causing the prices to become over inflated. I blame the hipsters, they pay too much for everything they buy! If Urban Outfitters sold video games I think we'd see Earthbound at $400 for cart only. Once the fad dies off I might be able to afford the games I want!. Sorry for my stupid and illogical rant.
nothing stupid and illogical about this. i cant wait for the prices to drop. thats why im carrying on with my ps3 360 ds collection
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on January 16, 2014, 01:28:45 am
This may sound horrible, but I hope it does die. There are too many people out there collecting right now just because its "in" or "cool" causing the prices to become over inflated. I blame the hipsters, they pay too much for everything they buy! If Urban Outfitters sold video games I think we'd see Earthbound at $400 for cart only. Once the fad dies off I might be able to afford the games I want!. Sorry for my stupid and illogical rant.
nothing stupid and illogical about this. i cant wait for the prices to drop. thats why im carrying on with my ps3 360 ds collection
I also cannot wait until this retro gaming fad runs its course and video games are cheap and accessible again. There are too many gamers and resellers looking for games, making it hard for anyone to find these games. Eventually, hopefully, this fad will pass and at that point maybe 95% of games won't cost nearly as much as they do.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: badATchaos on January 28, 2014, 09:56:35 pm
Anyone who looks at price charting can see its getting bigger than ever.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on January 28, 2014, 11:54:30 pm
Anyone who looks at price charting can see its getting bigger than ever.
I find Price Charting to be fairly unreliable for specific prices, however it does capture trends nicely with their overall pricing graphs. It is currently huge, and I think this recent media attention surrounding the NWC cart that sold for nearly 100g is just going to make things worse in terms of interest in the hobby as well as people trying to sell their common NES or N64 games for a fortune. I remember how bad it got after that idiot on Storage Wars said he found a "super rare" NES model 001 or whatever, and then everyone thought their Mario/Duck Hunt was worth hundreds!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: MJMaranan on January 29, 2014, 12:09:12 am
This may sound horrible, but I hope it does die. There are too many people out there collecting right now just because its "in" or "cool" causing the prices to become over inflated. I blame the hipsters, they pay too much for everything they buy! If Urban Outfitters sold video games I think we'd see Earthbound at $400 for cart only. Once the fad dies off I might be able to afford the games I want!. Sorry for my stupid and illogical rant.
nothing stupid and illogical about this. i cant wait for the prices to drop. thats why im carrying on with my ps3 360 ds collection
I would anticipate for that day... I see eBay and Amazon sellers overpricing some of the games I'm looking for.
As for current video games, I am becoming inclined towards digital copies since physical copies don't even have manuals anymore.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on January 30, 2014, 11:00:10 am
This may sound horrible, but I hope it does die. There are too many people out there collecting right now just because its "in" or "cool" causing the prices to become over inflated. I blame the hipsters, they pay too much for everything they buy! If Urban Outfitters sold video games I think we'd see Earthbound at $400 for cart only. Once the fad dies off I might be able to afford the games I want!. Sorry for my stupid and illogical rant.
nothing stupid and illogical about this. i cant wait for the prices to drop. thats why im carrying on with my ps3 360 ds collection
I would anticipate for that day... I see eBay and Amazon sellers overpricing some of the games I'm looking for.
As for current video games, I am becoming inclined towards digital copies since physical copies don't even have manuals anymore.
True, but at least you actually own the game when you at least have the disc (assuming there is no DRM crap on the game). There is zero ownership with digital, only the illusion of it.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on January 30, 2014, 12:13:06 pm
There is zero ownership with digital, only the illusion of it.
This!
I'll always go physical vs digital. If there is the option. If it ever comes to digital only consoles, I'll retire from new game buying and l look to retro stuffs only.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: disgaeniac on January 30, 2014, 12:14:46 pm
There is zero ownership with digital, only the illusion of it.
This!
I'll always go physical vs digital. If there is the option. If it ever comes to digital only consoles, I'll retire from new game buying and l look to retro stuffs only.
Hear hear!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: soera on January 30, 2014, 12:21:58 pm
Im not really going to sweat the possibility of the world going to digital gaming. Its a fad thats not going to survive long in gaming. People are going to want the option to trade a game, sell a game, etc. Consoles are going to break and people are going to want their games back. Plus if it does finally get to that point, there is absolutely no shortage of games I want to play/replay in my library already that I honestly dont have to buy another game for the rest of my own eternity and could fill all my extra space with what I have now.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on February 01, 2014, 12:10:38 pm
There is zero ownership with digital, only the illusion of it.
This!
I'll always go physical vs digital. If there is the option. If it ever comes to digital only consoles, I'll retire from new game buying and l look to retro stuffs only.
I have decided the same thing as well. In fact if it were not for the Wii U, I would have retired after this last generation (PS3. 360, Wii), mostly because developers are chopping games up more and more with DLC, season passes, and piss poor excuses for single player campaigns. And don't even get me started on DRM and always online BS. The industry is becoming way too greedy and it is showing signs of coming back and hitting them in the face. But that is another rant lol.
Sadly, I do believe all media, including games, are going digital only, mostly. While I do not believe there will be absolutely no more physical games, I see physical gaming being a small minority of game sales in about 10-years from now. One thing I am really hoping for is mass development for retro consoles coming back, like dozens of new Genesis or N64 games released each year. Sort of the same thing as Vinyl making a comeback as a medium from music. But I am completely and 100% okay with going retro only if I have too. I have the majority of games I could ever want (or possibly play), and there are still around 300 titles I don't have that I hope to pick up over the years.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on February 01, 2014, 12:22:56 pm
I've taken a physical only stance on a lot of things. Other than video games, for example, I am staunchly CD only now when buying music. I have a huge list of albums I had bought digital of that I am in the process of slowly buying CDs for. Sire I use an iPod to listen to my music, but everything I own will be in disc format. There is nothing better than opening a new album, popping the disc in the player and listening through it.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: disgaeniac on February 01, 2014, 02:04:34 pm
I've taken a physical only stance on a lot of things. Other than video games, for example, I am staunchly CD only now when buying music. There is nothing better than opening a new album, popping the disc in the player and listening through it.
I agree with you 100% on this -and- I also still strictly buy my music 'physically' by buying the CD's ;D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on February 01, 2014, 04:00:08 pm
I've taken a physical only stance on a lot of things. Other than video games, for example, I am staunchly CD only now when buying music. I have a huge list of albums I had bought digital of that I am in the process of slowly buying CDs for. Sire I use an iPod to listen to my music, but everything I own will be in disc format. There is nothing better than opening a new album, popping the disc in the player and listening through it.
Agreed. I have over 60 physical real cd's (not bootlegs) and I actually have about 30 vinyl albums as well from Hendrix to the Beatles to Madonna to Redman and Methman on vinyl. I love music :D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on February 01, 2014, 04:41:31 pm
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on February 01, 2014, 05:22:06 pm
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
May I ask, is there any special reason for the cds or is it just simply the idea of you like to take it out the actual case and put it in the cd player?
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 01, 2014, 06:29:35 pm
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
May I ask, is there any special reason for the cds or is it just simply the idea of you like to take it out the actual case and put it in the cd player?
I can't speak for him. But being an album collector, I can say that it's no different than wanting physical media video games over digital games. You get the actual artwork with the credits, lyrics, and any extras; and it's yours forever to do with what you wish whether that be copy it, sell it, or let it sit on the shelf all pretty like.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on February 01, 2014, 07:07:41 pm
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
May I ask, is there any special reason for the cds or is it just simply the idea of you like to take it out the actual case and put it in the cd player?
I can't speak for him. But being an album collector, I can say that it's no different than wanting physical media video games over digital games. You get the actual artwork with the credits, lyrics, and any extras; and it's yours forever to do with what you wish whether that be copy it, sell it, or let it sit on the shelf all pretty like.
:) That sounds like me. When I get a new CD or vinyl, I will actually sit there and read the inserts and stuff. Very cool. With vinyl, I love that analog sound. Tho' I do want to get an old skool late 70s or 80s record player because I think the quality of those are a lot better than the new ones. I got mine in 05, and it has no equalizer and you cannot add speakers or anything. It kind of sucks but it works.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on February 01, 2014, 07:15:22 pm
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
May I ask, is there any special reason for the cds or is it just simply the idea of you like to take it out the actual case and put it in the cd player?
I can't speak for him. But being an album collector, I can say that it's no different than wanting physical media video games over digital games. You get the actual artwork with the credits, lyrics, and any extras; and it's yours forever to do with what you wish whether that be copy it, sell it, or let it sit on the shelf all pretty like.
Yup this.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: disgaeniac on February 02, 2014, 09:27:59 am
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
May I ask, is there any special reason for the cds or is it just simply the idea of you like to take it out the actual case and put it in the cd player?
I can't speak for him. But being an album collector, I can say that it's no different than wanting physical media video games over digital games. You get the actual artwork with the credits, lyrics, and any extras; and it's yours forever to do with what you wish whether that be copy it, sell it, or let it sit on the shelf all pretty like.
Yup this.
This again!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: stethebubble on February 05, 2014, 08:59:10 pm
it will not die as long as people can make money selling to places like game exchange and people buy off ebay at stupid prices
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: exonerator on February 11, 2014, 02:36:58 pm
Nice, I'm sitting at just under 200 cds. I have a wishlist of over 100 more that need to be bought, including digital ones that need replacing.
May I ask, is there any special reason for the cds or is it just simply the idea of you like to take it out the actual case and put it in the cd player?
I can't speak for him. But being an album collector, I can say that it's no different than wanting physical media video games over digital games. You get the actual artwork with the credits, lyrics, and any extras; and it's yours forever to do with what you wish whether that be copy it, sell it, or let it sit on the shelf all pretty like.
Yup this.
This again!
Hear, hear! I've been starting to collect albums as well lately, because having a physical, perfect-quality version of an album is, to me, to be desired. The same thing goes for video games. It's not just for the collection and conversation piece aspect, it's because it's the perfect way to enjoy the medium; on the native hardware.
Also, I agree with Hexen. I await the day the market crashes. Vintage gaming will never die, but a big price drop is bound to happen. It's only the calm before the storm. (http://puu.sh/6SmFx.png)
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: turf on February 11, 2014, 03:42:06 pm
How can retro collecting die if we are all the "real" collectors that will be here to pick up pieces when it finally kicks the bucket?
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 11, 2014, 04:19:14 pm
Also, I agree with Hexen. I await the day the market crashes. Vintage gaming will never die, but a big price drop is bound to happen. It's only the calm before the storm.
Any reasoning behind this theory? I'm not saying I disagree, but I was just curious why this would come about?
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 11, 2014, 04:35:58 pm
Also, I agree with Hexen. I await the day the market crashes. Vintage gaming will never die, but a big price drop is bound to happen. It's only the calm before the storm.
Any reasoning behind this theory? I'm not saying I disagree, but I was just curious why this would come about?
Because all collector's market's bubbles have burst when a trend has made them bigger than usual. Comic books and baseball cards in the 90s are a prime-example of this. Both of those got bigger than they had ever been, and non-fan collectors hoping to make money bought a bunch of it up until the market collapsed on itself. And both comics and baseball cards are now cheap as hell to get a hold of (not counting the obvious rarities).
We're approaching that point in retro-game collecting, too. Due to the popularity of internet personalities like AVGN and Classic Game Room; and the plethora of collecting websites out there; retro-gaming is more popular than it ever has been. So those that have been around for a while, and aren't re-sellers or trend-followers, are waiting for this bubble to burst.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: exonerator on February 11, 2014, 05:22:54 pm
Also, I agree with Hexen. I await the day the market crashes. Vintage gaming will never die, but a big price drop is bound to happen. It's only the calm before the storm.
Any reasoning behind this theory? I'm not saying I disagree, but I was just curious why this would come about?
It's been discussed earlier in the thread, but here's my theory. Here's a little timeline using NES as an example. I have a good friend who runs the game trading part of a popular local comic shop, and we've discussed this many times over the past years, and some of our theorycrafting has come to light. Even though it's a theory, it's an informed one.
Production, 1985-1995: NES games are available at Zellers, Woolworths, Macy's, etc. Super Mario Bros. 3 cost around $45 new. Obsolescence, 1995-2006: Newer consoles are released. The NES becomes obsolete. The majority of NES games become available for dirt cheap on the free market. It was common to see Super Mario Bros. 3 and Legend of Zelda carts in pawn shops and grottos for ~$5 in the early 2000's. Trends, 2006-Now: Demand slowly goes up because of recent trends (8-bit aesthetic, AVGN, Let's Players, etc). It has yet to peak. but signs of slowing within the few years are possible, but that will be discussed later. Hoarding, 2008-2009: Soon-to-be resellers buy all the stock at these unassuming stores. NintendoAge is the epicenter for these resellers. Market Spike 2010-Now: Resellers take advantage and spike the market. Unassuming hipsters keep purcahsing at ridiculous prices. Small stores catch on. Super Mario Bros. 3 is $30 at my local video store.
There are two ways the economy can die after this.
Redistribution of Wealth: The demand goes down because it's just a trend for most people, then the prices will in turn go down as well, as resellers perform damage control on a dying market and liquidate their stock. This is where we come in and roll around in games like Scrooge McDuck (metaphorically of course, but we would have that many games after this happens.) (http://puu.sh/6SyQ6.jpg) Back to the Future Part 2 Theory: (Worst case scenario! Grab your light guns, stand your ground, and vote R.O.B.ublican) Though that copy of Jaws in the window might not cost $100 in 2015, it might in 2020. The demand skyrockets (Let's Plays and the like still being popular for years to come), supply will go down, in time prices will go way too far up, and the demand will slowly die as no one will buy a copy of SMB3 for $80. It'll be hard for new collectors to enter the game, and old collectors will already have the games that are expensively priced.
However, it could always stay the same. It's unlikely because of how the market fluctuates, and with trends still being popular as ever, or more so, but it always could become a mobius strip of prices falling and rising, never going anywhere. Fear the future.
EDIT: burningdoom, you hit the nail on the head. Can't believe I forgot to make the comic comparison.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 11, 2014, 06:34:30 pm
I was skeptical of a bubble before. I was more of a fluctuation type of guy. Prices are high before they settle. However, the recent troll bidding on the NWC's driving up the prices of actual NWCs sold, mixed with the Flintstones crap, mixed with Gamester81 stating he doesn't collect for the NES anymore because of the prices has me thinking there is something more happening.
I got out of Nintendo collecting years ago because of how the scene changed. I've mentioned that before. However, I did not think too much about it. I have a low tolerance for that crap. But when someone like Gamester81 stops collecting for something, that makes me think things are really bad.
I still stand by, I don't think retro gaming is a bubble that will pop. I think Nintendo/Sony collecting is a bubble that will pop. SEGA collecting still feels like it and Nintendo collecting was in the 90s. There are a few exceptions for really high profile games. But it is a handful. Meanwhile boxed SNES games being over $100 is not uncommon at all.
Side note: Wow, exonerator. Someone loves evangelion.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 11, 2014, 06:40:38 pm
I think some of your guy's theories are correct, but overall I think prices will continue to rise.
I sell toy collections as a side business.
As the average person continues to make more money in each year the value of items will continue to rise too. Ever since Ebay, Craigslist and Amazon became household names people have seen that they can take valuables that were once only found in garage sales, pawn shops and flea markets and reach a huge audience worldwide. The more people your items can be seen by the more likely you will get more demand - this is how advertising works.
This current state of video games is different in my opinion than Comic Books and Baseball Cards because those two had high dollar investors actually using these items like stocks. They soon found out that a commodity like this doesn't work the same as real stocks or precious metals. The reason is because value is determined by scarcity. The more comic books became popular the more issues the companies printed.
Some games over time may fluctuate and go through trends, but on a whole the more rare an item is the value will continue to rise. For example - I could buy a pristine Sega Master System complete with box and all papework 14 years ago for $20. Now that same system could fetch a few hundred dollars or more because now they are hard to come by. 14 years ago a Neo Geo in pristine condition with box and all paperwork was selling for a few hundred dollars now they sell for twice that or more. Ebay and other sites have allowed people to find an audience that loves collecting these items and as the scarcity goes up you will see collectors fighting over the remaining items available.
I don't think we will see a real downturn in the video game market until video games themselves lose their popularity or until a future generation finds a different way of enjoying them (such as all consoles fail and IOS takes over the world).
Actually comic books are a perfect example of this. Even though comics books have been around since the early 1900's and their popularity have fluctuated up and down over the years. The value of early rare comic books continue to go up.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 11, 2014, 06:48:40 pm
^ You're completely right. The rare items will continue to stay rare and climb in value. The same can be said for comic books and baseball cards.
What we're talking about are the common games being touted as "rare games" and being sold at outrageous prices. Like Mario games for example. Nothing rare about those at all. Yet they still garner a high resell value. The same thing happened in the 90s with comic books and baseball cards, like was pointed out. An issue of Wolverine that had a high printing run, and sold well, that came out only few months earlier; would skyrocket in value just because it was a popular story (but there would be nothing significant about the issue to justify the rise in price).
We're hoping these resellers that artificially raise the value of many games will go away when the bubble bursts.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 11, 2014, 06:55:56 pm
^ You're completely right. The rare items will continue to stay rare and climb in value. The same can be said for comic books and baseball cards.
What we're talking about are the common games being touted as "rare games" and being sold at outrageous prices. Like Mario games for example. Nothing rare about those at all. Yet they still garner a high resell value. The same thing happened in the 90s with comic books and baseball cards, like was pointed out. An issue of Wolverine that had a high printing run, and sold well, that came out only few months earlier; would skyrocket in value just because it was a popular story (but there would be nothing significant about the issue to justify the rise in price).
We're hoping these resellers that artificially raise the value of many games will go away when the bubble bursts.
I agree. If those sellers are selling games for more money than the market can bare then yes the prices will come down. Unfortunately I have seen many people paying these prices. There are more people collecting games than I can remember 10-15 years ago. You could buy sealed NES and SNES games for dirt cheap back in the late 90's early 2000's. Relatively though those were only the 3rd generation console users buying at that time. Now we have a few decades worth of video game fans buying retro games and I believe will continue to do so unless the market drastically changes.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on February 11, 2014, 07:03:58 pm
I was skeptical of a bubble before. I was more of a fluctuation type of guy. Prices are high before they settle. However, the recent troll bidding on the NWC's driving up the prices of actual NWCs sold, mixed with the Flintstones crap, mixed with Gamester81 stating he doesn't collect for the NES anymore because of the prices has me thinking there is something more happening.
I got out of Nintendo collecting years ago because of how the scene changed. I've mentioned that before. However, I did not think too much about it. I have a low tolerance for that crap. But when someone like Gamester81 stops collecting for something, that makes me think things are really bad.
I still stand by, I don't think retro gaming is a bubble that will pop. I think Nintendo/Sony collecting is a bubble that will pop. SEGA collecting still feels like it and Nintendo collecting was in the 90s. There are a few exceptions for really high profile games. But it is a handful. Meanwhile boxed SNES games being over $100 is not uncommon at all.
Side note: Wow, exonerator. Someone loves evangelion.
I really want to hear your point of view because its always good; however, I am not fully understanding what you mean. Is Gamester81 a user on VGCollect that you are referring to? What do you mean you think there is more happening? How is it really bad?
Can you explain your theory in a different way? Maybe I can understand what you mean.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 11, 2014, 07:12:29 pm
^ Gamester81 is a popular YouTube gamer. He reviews rare systems and accessories and such, and even the occasional game review.
But that's crazy he said he wouldn't collect NES games anymore due to price. No doubt prices have been rising on them. But the stuff he has way outclasses NES games. He spends a small fortune every week, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: spac316 on February 11, 2014, 10:37:39 pm
It is ridiculous. It's getting more and more difficult to buy old games with the over blown prices they go for. Games that are considered rare are probably not as such. The problem is that people search eBay for prices and ebay should not be the "going rate", ebay is a site where any price can be determined by the seller and is a far cry from being either stable or a fair price for any game, rare or not. It's decided upon by unprofessional price gougers, not by some collective authority of any worth. Anyone who sets a price based on a lazy ebay search is going to the wrong source for this information and it's not what the majority accepts as the standard rate, it's what individuals (most of whom are resellers who use shady methods in the first place) decide all on their own. There's only one reason anyone working at a retail store or pawn shop would search ebay for a price on something, and that's so they can set the bar 10% higher than the highest thing they can find, and get away with it.
Of course it doesn't help that some people do pay for those prices like the suckers they are...
I also hate to say that the YouTube gaming community that often glorify retro gaming are to blame for these prices. Sorry to say but that's part of it to me. :-\
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on February 12, 2014, 01:24:32 am
It is ridiculous. It's getting more and more difficult to buy old games with the over blown prices they go for. Games that are considered rare are probably not as such. The problem is that people search eBay for prices and ebay should not be the "going rate", ebay is a site where any price can be determined by the seller and is a far cry from being either stable or a fair price for any game, rare or not. It's decided upon by unprofessional price gougers, not by some collective authority of any worth. Anyone who sets a price based on a lazy ebay search is going to the wrong source for this information and it's not what the majority accepts as the standard rate, it's what individuals (most of whom are resellers who use shady methods in the first place) decide all on their own. There's only one reason anyone working at a retail store or pawn shop would search ebay for a price on something, and that's so they can set the bar 10% higher than the highest thing they can find, and get away with it.
Of course it doesn't help that some people do pay for those prices like the suckers they are...
I also hate to say that the YouTube gaming community that often glorify retro gaming are to blame for these prices. Sorry to say but that's part of it to me. :-\
I agree with most of what you said, but resellers and collectors are sort of left to their own standard for what a game is worth; some use Ebay completed listings, some use Amazon, and others use sites like Price Charting to determine the value of a game. There is no gold standard unfortunately, so you have prices all over the place, however 98% of games tend to gravitate around a certain price at any given time, and that is usually what I base whether or not I am getting a fair price.
A lot of resellers and game stores do sadly look at the highest completed listing price and use that to price their games, or they add 10 to 50% onto it. Over the past year I have seen at least five places i used to score at all the time do this and it sucks for everyone. One place has a $30 copy of Perfect Dark on the N64 that they have had for 2-years now, nobody will buy it. It is getting out of control and even hipsters that pride themselves on the image of owning an SNES rather than actually having an SNES wont even pay these insane prices.
And yes, popular youtubers are at least partially to blame for the price inflation. I know one of the managers at a local game store pretty well and he said that if AVGN does a review of a game, any copies that he has will generally sell out within a week. Increases in prices on some of his reviewed games are also evidence of this. And don't even get me started on the hidden gems videos that James an Mike did, Hagane is now insanely overpriced because of that video, as are the other games that appeared on those videos.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: tripredacus on February 12, 2014, 01:16:45 pm
I'm not sure if game prices are indications that the bubble will burst. I was thinking the other day when I read that Amazon is going to release a game console similar to OUYA. It might be true that the 80s crash could be related to the upcoming one based on the number of consoles available. Too many options and people's limited attention spans are what will probably cause it. Now you can play games on PC, in a browser, phone, OUYA, PS3, PS4, Vita, Wii, WiiU, Xbox 360, Xbox One, retron clones, Steambox, this Amazon thing. Heck I think I can even play games on my satellite box. Too many companies getting in on the market and I don't think the demand is there to keep it up. It might even burst when the Retron5 comes out, presuming it actually works on HDTVs like they say it will. Nintendo stuff might even go higher in price than it is now!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 12, 2014, 02:14:51 pm
I'm not sure if game prices are indications that the bubble will burst. I was thinking the other day when I read that Amazon is going to release a game console similar to OUYA. It might be true that the 80s crash could be related to the upcoming one based on the number of consoles available. Too many options and people's limited attention spans are what will probably cause it. Now you can play games on PC, in a browser, phone, OUYA, PS3, PS4, Vita, Wii, WiiU, Xbox 360, Xbox One, retron clones, Steambox, this Amazon thing. Heck I think I can even play games on my satellite box. Too many companies getting in on the market and I don't think the demand is there to keep it up. It might even burst when the Retron5 comes out, presuming it actually works on HDTVs like they say it will. Nintendo stuff might even go higher in price than it is now!
For newer games the bubble has already burst in a way. Game prices have not really gone up much in the past 30 years although inflation has. With more and more free games on phones and multiple "gaming systems" available we see games come down in price from $60 to $20 normally in a matter of months. This same trend is happening to movies.
Only tentpole games are able to prosper in the retail marketplace now at full price. (Same thing is happening with movies)
As more and more of the new generation of gamers are raised on IOS, android, web browser games, etc... we will continue to see the dwindling of new retail games and the prices they are able to maintain.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if a company like Nintendo catered to the retro market and actually produced a vintage style NES game in original packaging and everything. It will never happen because the cost to manufacture a NES cartridge will not yield the same kind of return as producing a DS game or something similar.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 12, 2014, 06:36:15 pm
But that's crazy he said he wouldn't collect NES games anymore due to price. No doubt prices have been rising on them. But the stuff he has way outclasses NES games. He spends a small fortune every week, I'm sure.
That's my point. The dude has crazy stuff. Granted he may be more of a hardware collector than anything. But it certainly tells me that the NES is overpriced.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: exonerator on February 12, 2014, 07:09:27 pm
I'd be lucky if I get much more than the 250 NES games I have within the next 2 years.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 12, 2014, 08:16:01 pm
NES games aren't expensive, though. Unless you're going for the World Championship Cart or something.
One of the best games on the system, Super Mario Bros. 3, goes for around $15:
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 12, 2014, 09:26:07 pm
Everyone of those games are expensive. Mario 3 is not a $15 dollar game. It is not that rare. Dragon Warrior is not a $6 game. The Game X Change in Tulsa used to have stacks of those. Dragon Warrior is a $2 game.
A world where Mario Bros Duck Hunt is $5, is a world with expensive NES games.
$5.34 shipped seems to be the cheapest. http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-Cent-Game-Super-Mario-Bros-Duck-Hunt-Nintendo-NES-1985-/221368285599?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item338a93f99f
For a comparison: check out Funcoland http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/vr/image/1376/97/1376977095816.jpg
Mario 3 = 2.99 Stadium Events = 0.39 That's the way it should be. 8)
OK Stadium Events is an oversight (kinda). But Mario 3 at $2.99 is dead on. Today it should be $5-$8 max. Most NES games are twice what they should be. Honestly, $15 for one of the most popular cart only games on a popular console from 30 years ago is insane. It may not be a lot of money. But it is overpriced. $100 should buy more than 8 of the classic NES games.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: exonerator on February 12, 2014, 09:34:40 pm
Agreed on all points, sin2beta. A comparison could be made that $4 isn't a lot of money, but for a pack of M&Ms, it's insane.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 13, 2014, 12:23:57 am
Yeah, it'd be nice to buy NES & SNES games at those prices. But when those prices were listed (in the 90s), that was just last-gen for then. And we can get last-gen games at those kind of prices right now. PS2, Xbox, and GameCube games are dirt-freaking cheap at the moment. That's something that's always been a trend in gaming.
I'm just saying that NES games really aren't as bad as people are making it in this thread. I mean it's not like Saturn, TurboGrafx-16, Sega CD, or SNES games. Those are the wallet-killers to collect for.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 13, 2014, 01:17:15 am
Agreed on all points, sin2beta. A comparison could be made that $4 isn't a lot of money, but for a pack of M&Ms, it's insane.
I totally agree with this! The cheap prices we are used to for NES are not around for really anything any longer. You can't buy a comic book for under $3 now. You can't buy a pack of gum for less than a $1. Yet somehow NES games are supposed to stay $3 for a common game?
As minimum wage raises across the country (a lot of states already have laws in place that minimum wage goes up every year) your cost of goods will continue to rise. The more people make the more things cost - simple economics. It is what will always keep the poor poor and the rich rich.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: elraiser on February 13, 2014, 12:28:38 pm
Everyone of those games are expensive. Mario 3 is not a $15 dollar game. It is not that rare. Dragon Warrior is not a $6 game. The Game X Change in Tulsa used to have stacks of those. Dragon Warrior is a $2 game.
The local game store near me is way overpriced as well. SMB3 sells for $25. Tecmo Super Bowl is $30 or something. Any Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Castlevania (you know the big series) are marked up to an insane premium. It is ridiculous and the price gouging is usually just the Nintendo games. They also put weird prices on foreign games, especially they sell Derby Stallion 96 with no memory pack for $10. Well they try, that one has been sitting in the display case for over a year now. ;D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on February 13, 2014, 03:44:57 pm
Anyone remember when Baseball Cards were very popular to collect in the 90s? Now, they're not worth a lick. That bubble popped...
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 13, 2014, 06:44:49 pm
Yeah, it'd be nice to buy NES & SNES games at those prices. But when those prices were listed (in the 90s), that was just last-gen for then. And we can get last-gen games at those kind of prices right now. PS2, Xbox, and GameCube games are dirt-freaking cheap at the moment. That's something that's always been a trend in gaming.
I'm just saying that NES games really aren't as bad as people are making it in this thread. I mean it's not like Saturn, TurboGrafx-16, Sega CD, or SNES games. Those are the wallet-killers to collect for.
It wasn't last gen. Those prices were on the cusp of the dreamcast. The NES was 2.5 generations old.
It has to be looked at in multiple ways to try and minimize the apple to oranges comparison. First, compare with contemporaries. Have most other consoles at that time experienced a similar jump in prices. Not really. The Master System and Atari are still fairly cheap. The TG-16 only recently began climbing in price. If you look at the collecting trends, people have been finishing their NES collections and moving to TG-16 or SNES primarily. It's the same group causing most of that cost increase.
You also have to look at it in terms of percentage of price then and price now. Ultimately, a cart only game from 25 years ago is 25% the cost of a brand new retail game. It is 50%-75% the cost of a new retail game approximately 1 year after release. To me, this is fairly telling.
You also have to look at it in terms of inflation. In 1998 Mario 3 was $3. In 2014 it is $15. The best that I can find reliably is 2013 dollars, so we have to go with that. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics $1 (1998) = 1.42 (2013). This implies Mario 3 should be $4.26 absent outside market influences. I stated earlier they were twice what they should be. That was taking into account some level of nostalgia driving the price up for people. 200% seems reasonable. A 352% increase from the inflation adjusted price seems overpriced.
So, comparing them to both the older consoles and modern consoles, the NES ranks on the high end.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: turf on February 13, 2014, 07:36:19 pm
You also have to look at it in terms of inflation. In 1998 Mario 3 was $3. In 2014 it is $15. The best that I can find reliably is 2013 dollars, so we have to go with that. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics $1 (1998) = 1.42 (2013). This implies Mario 3 should be $4.26 absent outside market influences. I stated earlier they were twice what they should be. That was taking into account some level of nostalgia driving the price up for people. 200% seems reasonable. A 352% increase from the inflation adjusted price seems overpriced.
So, comparing them to both the older consoles and modern consoles, the NES ranks on the high end.
I love math people. Keep on my brother. Keep on.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: tripredacus on February 14, 2014, 01:44:20 pm
Anyone remember when Baseball Cards were very popular to collect in the 90s? Now, they're not worth a lick. That bubble popped...
Actually this is incorrect. The entire market is smaller than what it was then, but Baseball cards are the #1 market for cards right now. Those cards from the 80s and 90s are pretty much junk but current cards are very much in demand.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 14, 2014, 02:00:36 pm
Anyone remember when Baseball Cards were very popular to collect in the 90s? Now, they're not worth a lick. That bubble popped...
Actually this is incorrect. The entire market is smaller than what it was then, but Baseball cards are the #1 market for cards right now. Those cards from the 80s and 90s are pretty much junk but current cards are very much in demand.
#1 card? Magic: The Gathering is what I see dominating the card racks at my local comic shop. They're freaking everywhere with gigantic ad posters and stuff.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on February 14, 2014, 02:13:45 pm
Yup, even my local sports memorabilia shop is mostly a Magic and games dealer now.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 14, 2014, 03:22:44 pm
Thanks for the analysis! It is pretty solid!
I would add that the inflation % since the NES time period is roughly 120%.
Cartridges actually sold high for used games back in the 80's they then plummeted all through the 90's. Ever since the 2000's they have risen back up and are now more expensive than they were in the 80's. Due to the 120% inflation some of that is accounted for. Some of the newly added value is the scarcity of the item. Some of the added value could be due to "a bubble" in the market.
Also I would like to note that not all games have gone up 350% in the past 10 years. I have some games I bought back in 2003 and these are the prices. Super Mario Bros. 3 for $5. Adventures of Lolo 3 for $20. Now these games are respectively $15 and $35.
Makes me wonder if games that hold more nostalgic treasure for someone who played it when they were young are driving some games to insane prices. Where as some of the less known games are less than doubling in cost.
It wasn't last gen. Those prices were on the cusp of the dreamcast. The NES was 2.5 generations old.
It has to be looked at in multiple ways to try and minimize the apple to oranges comparison. First, compare with contemporaries. Have most other consoles at that time experienced a similar jump in prices. Not really. The Master System and Atari are still fairly cheap. The TG-16 only recently began climbing in price. If you look at the collecting trends, people have been finishing their NES collections and moving to TG-16 or SNES primarily. It's the same group causing most of that cost increase.
You also have to look at it in terms of percentage of price then and price now. Ultimately, a cart only game from 25 years ago is 25% the cost of a brand new retail game. It is 50%-75% the cost of a new retail game approximately 1 year after release. To me, this is fairly telling.
You also have to look at it in terms of inflation. In 1998 Mario 3 was $3. In 2014 it is $15. The best that I can find reliably is 2013 dollars, so we have to go with that. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics $1 (1998) = 1.42 (2013). This implies Mario 3 should be $4.26 absent outside market influences. I stated earlier they were twice what they should be. That was taking into account some level of nostalgia driving the price up for people. 200% seems reasonable. A 352% increase from the inflation adjusted price seems overpriced.
So, comparing them to both the older consoles and modern consoles, the NES ranks on the high end.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on February 14, 2014, 03:57:57 pm
Anyone remember when Baseball Cards were very popular to collect in the 90s? Now, they're not worth a lick. That bubble popped...
Actually this is incorrect. The entire market is smaller than what it was then, but Baseball cards are the #1 market for cards right now. Those cards from the 80s and 90s are pretty much junk but current cards are very much in demand.
I could be wrong of course but I know that I have thousands of baseball cards. Some from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. I remember back in the year 2000 when I was a teen, I was pricing them thinking of getting rid of them, and I had some individual cards worth over 200 and 300 dollars each at that time. I had a local card shop offer me 2,000 for all my cards. My dad talked me out of it saying that I should wait till I'm old because they may be worth 20x what they were then. Last year I tried selling my collection on Ebay and it would not sell. I looked up the prices on some of the more valuable one's and they were not selling more than 10 dollars a card.
My local sports memorb. shop acts like they do not even want all my cards. They offered 100 dollars for my whole set and thats it. Their baseball selection is very minimal and they just clearly said the demand for baseball cards is not high right now.
I figured the bubble must have popped on it, and I'm just holding them till when Im 60 or so, to see if the market changes for them at that time.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: exonerator on February 14, 2014, 04:35:36 pm
Yup, even my local sports memorabilia shop is mostly a Magic and games dealer now.
Same here. A store around here called "Cards, Coins, and Collectibles" just sells boxes of MtG and Yugioh, and rare singles. They're as expensive as ever, and that's not even counting truly rare cards like Black Lotus. Tarmogoyf is still $150 minimum, and Mecha Phantom Beast Draccosack is still like $75 or so. With prices like these, you'd think that MtGox was a site that traded MtG cards and showed daily highs and lows.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: scott on February 14, 2014, 04:40:24 pm
I'd love to own a Black Lotus, just to have it. :(
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: exonerator on February 14, 2014, 05:29:36 pm
I'd love to own a Black Lotus, just to have it. :(
I just wish it was reprinted à la Modern Masters, or at least a card with the same effect as a proxy. The price would still be the same for Alpha/Beta/Unlimited because it's the principle of the thing; no one's buying it to play, it's because it's Alpha/Beta. But the card, if one were to play it, oh my god. I played a game of EDH with some friends a year or two back, and we made proxy cards by using a common card and slipping a printed Black Lotus inside of the sleeve. I ran a Blue/Red recycle/goblin rush deck, and won after like, 20 turns.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: atarileaf on February 14, 2014, 10:40:03 pm
Retro gaming is not dying but independent George is
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 15, 2014, 08:22:01 pm
^ Gamester81 is a popular YouTube gamer. He reviews rare systems and accessories and such, and even the occasional game review.
But that's crazy he said he wouldn't collect NES games anymore due to price. No doubt prices have been rising on them. But the stuff he has way outclasses NES games. He spends a small fortune every week, I'm sure.
Just today Gamester81 posted on this
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: DreamsDied13101 on February 16, 2014, 12:31:37 am
Sin2Beta - thanks for posting the clip. The way he says "Taito" was a little hard to endure, but it was an interesting take on the "NES Bubble".
BTW - like your youtube channel. I had never checked it out, but I love SG1000 games!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: burningdoom on February 16, 2014, 12:43:05 am
I saw this today.
Personally, I'm not the kind of collector that goes for the games he's talking about. Most people aren't going out looking for Stadium Events or Flintstones. I can understand Gamester81 not wanting to collect for NES, those type of games are probably exactly the ones he still needs with his crazy impressive collection. Me on the other hand, am still looking for affordable common games like Gradius and Double Dragon II.
But to be honest, most systems have games like this. Panzer Dragoon Saga, Earthbound, Elemental Gearbolt, etc.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: atarileaf on February 16, 2014, 06:44:05 am
Well, common or rare, the average price of any game with the name "Nintendo" has really increased over the last 5 years. I started my current collection in 2008 and started with the NES in 2009 and I could find games like DD, Wrecking Crew, Ice Climber, Bubble bobble, etc, all for $3 or $4 each - in the game stores. Thrifts and Value Villages had them for 50 cents or a buck each.
Same with SNES and N64 and gamecube games were in the same price range as xbox and ps2 games. I think what Gamester81 is lamenting is the general price frenzy over the NES that is driving the average price several times what it was when people like he and I started collecting.
I've been collecting on and off for over 20 years. I can't even begin to describe the difference in collecting in the wild now and back in the early 90's. It's enough to make a collector weep.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on February 16, 2014, 10:51:56 am
Well, common or rare, the average price of any game with the name "Nintendo" has really increased over the last 5 years. I started my current collection in 2008 and started with the NES in 2009 and I could find games like DD, Wrecking Crew, Ice Climber, Bubble bobble, etc, all for $3 or $4 each - in the game stores. Thrifts and Value Villages had them for 50 cents or a buck each.
Same with SNES and N64 and gamecube games were in the same price range as xbox and ps2 games. I think what Gamester81 is lamenting is the general price frenzy over the NES that is driving the average price several times what it was when people like he and I started collecting.
I've been collecting on and off for over 20 years. I can't even begin to describe the difference in collecting in the wild now and back in the early 90's. It's enough to make a collector weep.
It is sad how expensive and sought after Nintendo stuff has become. I started collecting right before it got really big and I remember walking into Goodwill stores and seeing stacks of SNES games with titles like Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy for $2 a piece. And the flea market I go to had one video game reseller back in 2009 when I started going, now there are about 10. It has become insanely competitive and expensive over the past 2-years, so much so I have seen people drop out of the hobby months in because how how bad it is. I'm glad I own 95% of all the games I could ever want or else I might have joined them lol.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: sin2beta on February 16, 2014, 03:04:05 pm
BTW - like your youtube channel. I had never checked it out, but I love SG1000 games!
Thanks man! I was a big fan of Chrontendo, and noticed that he started the SEGA portion at the master system. It just seemed odd to have that whole segment virtually left out. Thanks for watching!
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: negatron1000 on February 16, 2014, 03:37:03 pm
I believe the opposite will happen simply because most of the newer stuff will start going digital. Older games (in good condition) will definitely be hard to find and for guys like myself who don't have a decent retro gaming library, it will be quite difficult and costly to build it. however, if we go completely digital then I can only focus on retro games. ;D
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: atarileaf on February 16, 2014, 04:24:25 pm
I'm glad I own 95% of all the games I could ever want or else I might have joined them lol.
Agreed. My main collection now is done and I'm branching out to other interests like retro computers or even newer gen stuff. If I had to start over I doubt I'd bother. I simply couldn't afford to start again the way prices are.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: Warmsignal on March 07, 2014, 09:25:17 pm
@OP
I think the shriveling of forums is basically just due to Facebook soaking up all internet traffic. First there were Internets, now there is Facebook. Facebook Facebook Facebook, what's so great about it? Humbug.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: teck on March 14, 2014, 04:04:34 am
I'm going to call shenanigans on this retro is dying thing by simply citing my job as an example.... In 2010 the store I work at was opened on August 19 at 11:05 in the morning.... I started working for the owner in April of 2011.... I was the only employee for a period until February of 2012.... We now have 3 locations and we're worried that we can't stock fast enough.... We have consistently sold more games than we buy with November of 2013.... Every year since the first we have made significantly more money each month than the year before.... We're likely to go out of business only because our supply can't keep up with our demand.... Granted I'm hoping this is just a trading lull and that it'll pick back up, but around here there are more collectors than ever....
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on March 15, 2014, 01:26:35 am
I'm going to call shenanigans on this retro is dying thing by simply citing my job as an example.... In 2010 the store I work at was opened on August 19 at 11:05 in the morning.... I started working for the owner in April of 2011.... I was the only employee for a period until February of 2012.... We now have 3 locations and we're worried that we can't stock fast enough.... We have consistently sold more games than we buy with November of 2013.... Every year since the first we have made significantly more money each month than the year before.... We're likely to go out of business only because our supply can't keep up with our demand.... Granted I'm hoping this is just a trading lull and that it'll pick back up, but around here there are more collectors than ever....
I am pretty close with some of the indi-game stores in my area and they've had similar problems, especially with more people buying then trading in, particularly with games prior to gen 5. Even with incentives like double trade in credit for SNES and NES games, nobody is trading them in. I think a lot of people are hoarding these games because they are either collecting or they are hoping the prices will go up more. I can't see this lasting forever, but retro collecting is definitely the most popular it has ever been.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: Warmsignal on March 15, 2014, 12:50:10 pm
I'm going to call shenanigans on this retro is dying thing by simply citing my job as an example.... In 2010 the store I work at was opened on August 19 at 11:05 in the morning.... I started working for the owner in April of 2011.... I was the only employee for a period until February of 2012.... We now have 3 locations and we're worried that we can't stock fast enough.... We have consistently sold more games than we buy with November of 2013.... Every year since the first we have made significantly more money each month than the year before.... We're likely to go out of business only because our supply can't keep up with our demand.... Granted I'm hoping this is just a trading lull and that it'll pick back up, but around here there are more collectors than ever....
I hope you're not talking about Play N Trade. If you are, I wish you luck. As franchise stores, they have an unusually high failure rate and only typically last 3 - 5 years before shutting down with no help from overhead to keep games stocked or even have accesses to new releases.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: teck on March 16, 2014, 03:15:53 am
I'm going to call shenanigans on this retro is dying thing by simply citing my job as an example.... In 2010 the store I work at was opened on August 19 at 11:05 in the morning.... I started working for the owner in April of 2011.... I was the only employee for a period until February of 2012.... We now have 3 locations and we're worried that we can't stock fast enough.... We have consistently sold more games than we buy with November of 2013.... Every year since the first we have made significantly more money each month than the year before.... We're likely to go out of business only because our supply can't keep up with our demand.... Granted I'm hoping this is just a trading lull and that it'll pick back up, but around here there are more collectors than ever....
I hope you're not talking about Play N Trade. If you are, I wish you luck. As franchise stores, they have an unusually high failure rate and only typically last 3 - 5 years before shutting down with no help from overhead to keep games stocked or even have accesses to new releases.
Oh dear god no.... In my state, ALL of them have gone out of business except one as far as I know.... We're no franchise.... Play N Trade's biggest problem is that they are attempting to compete directly with Gamestop too much.... They invest quite a bit into stocking new games and end up taking big hits on unsold stock.... We don't really stock much new unless it is requested.... I actually hired an ex-PnT employee and from what I gathered it seems that the owner over there was a decent enough business man, but knew nothing about the gaming industry specifically.... I presume this to be a continuous issue.... I monitor all our costs and sales and compare them to our previous years and I can see no signs of danger right now other than drying up stock.... Judging from a handful of other game stores over the years, I can say that the ones that saw success all managed to get into the black by the end of their first operating year and kept stable sales.... Even if there were not "great" sales, stability seemed to be a common factor....
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: disgaeniac on March 16, 2014, 08:26:42 am
If I ever start up/open a gaming store of my own (which, btw, isn't a pipe dream for me...just something that I'm giving A LOT of thought & time studying, researching, and - in general...just learning as much as I can about all of the facets that you don't become knowledgeable about by default - just from being a gamer & a collector); so far, I've thought of a few *Fun* ideas for some potential store names:
A. GameStopped,
B. GameStopper, and or
C. GameStopping ==>
==>you all get the idea...something along those lines (unless those names would be illegal or some shit, due to their being so close to "Gamestop" ;)
Actually, a few weeks ago, a...*not* really a friend so much as...I guess, someone that I've had multiple profitable (for both of us (gaming-related)) business transactions with over the last 6 or 7 years, or so - make me a (what, to me, is a Blatantly obvious & very transparent) "Too-Good-To-Be-True" offer/proposal for terms and a price to buy & take over his current store + all of his current inventory.
This is, most likely, where the *serious* thought of me doing something gaming-related like that might be fun to run as a hobby kind of thing, and (hopefully) get tons of old & rare games brought to me!
The fact that I wouldn't be relying on the business/profits for my well-being & to support myself, I think, is what could make it fun.
I'd love to hear all of your thoughts/suggestions about something like this...
Oh.
And...No.
I'm not gonna be buying his store because:
- I don't like its location,
- it already has a reputation as being a pretty sleazily owned & operated "Pawn Shop" of everything electronic (spy cams, computers, etc + I don't *know* anything about these types of things), and
- well...like I said - In real life; "too good to be true" is *Always*...too good to be true. :P
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: bikingjahuty on March 16, 2014, 07:06:56 pm
For a brief period I too thought of opening a game store and did my own research as well and picked the brains of several game store managers and owners I know. They expressed that while they all get a fair amount of traffic coming in and out of the store, much of their business is done online through Ebay or Amazon. The store's main purpose more than anything is to serve as a hub for people to take their games in and sell them to you so you can turn around and sell them for a profit. One game store I frequently go to does about 70% of their overall business on Ebay, while the rest comes from customers actually coming in and buying stuff. And when people do buy stuff in the store, 90% of the time it is very common, but sought after games like Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy, and those sort of games. Almost all the game store employees I know say that they get at least 10 people a day coming in asking for either Mario Kart, Mario Party, Super Smash Bros, or Zelda.
So overall I think it is a cool idea, but there is one major drawback of owning a game store besides having to pay for the space, employees, lights and all that other overhead. Especially with older games, which is a HUGE money maker right now for the local game stores, they are getting brought in less and less. It is getting so bad that many of these stores have to go on Ebay or offer crazy incentives to get people to sell their retro games. One store gets about 80% of their pre 6th gen merchandise online and barely makes money of it. It is more a tool to get people in the store rather than make money, which is pretty smart. Most of the stores I talk to say they are still getting a healthy amount of PS2 to current gen games/consoles brought in and haven't had to go the online route with these consoles yet. Still, you have to make money to keep the store open, and it's hard when you are only making about $5 off a copy of Super Smash Bros.
But it's a very hard business to survive in, especially when competing with other used game stores in the area. I have seen many stores go under since I have been gaming, and the most of the stores that are still around say they just get by most months. I have come to the conclusion that the best business model you can have as a game store is to not have a retail/warehouse location, but to somehow get people to bring the games to you without it. I have yet to find out what method would be just as good or better than having a store for people to bring their games in, but if you could figure it out and be an online only retailer you'd be in a very good spot to make a lot of money. But anyhow, that is what I have found out. Let me know if you have any other questions :)
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: teck on March 16, 2014, 07:15:07 pm
For a brief period I too thought of opening a game store and did my own research as well and picked the brains of several game store managers and owners I know. They expressed that while they all get a fair amount of traffic coming in and out of the store, much of their business is done online through Ebay or Amazon. The store's main purpose more than anything is to serve as a hub for people to take their games in and sell them to you so you can turn around and sell them for a profit. One game store I frequently go to does about 70% of their overall business on Ebay, while the rest comes from customers actually coming in and buying stuff. And when people do buy stuff in the store, 90% of the time it is very common, but sought after games like Zelda, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy, and those sort of games. Almost all the game store employees I know say that they get at least 10 people a day coming in asking for either Mario Kart, Mario Party, Super Smash Bros, or Zelda.
So overall I think it is a cool idea, but there is one major drawback of owning a game store besides having to pay for the space, employees, lights and all that other overhead. Especially with older games, which is a HUGE money maker right now for the local game stores, they are getting brought in less and less. It is getting so bad that many of these stores have to go on Ebay or offer crazy incentives to get people to sell their retro games. One store gets about 80% of their pre 6th gen merchandise online and barely makes money of it. It is more a tool to get people in the store rather than make money, which is pretty smart. Most of the stores I talk to say they are still getting a healthy amount of PS2 to current gen games/consoles brought in and haven't had to go the online route with these consoles yet. Still, you have to make money to keep the store open, and it's hard when you are only making about $5 off a copy of Super Smash Bros.
But it's a very hard business to survive in, especially when competing with other used game stores in the area. I have seen many stores go under since I have been gaming, and the most of the stores that are still around say they just get by most months. I have come to the conclusion that the best business model you can have as a game store is to not have a retail/warehouse location, but to somehow get people to bring the games to you without it. I have yet to find out what method would be just as good or better than having a store for people to bring their games in, but if you could figure it out and be an online only retailer you'd be in a very good spot to make a lot of money. But anyhow, that is what I have found out. Let me know if you have any other questions :)
Ah, I didn't mention this before, but my store is brick and mortar only.... We do not buy or sell online at all.... Despite this, we are still doing well....
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: Warmsignal on March 22, 2014, 12:53:34 pm
I think the best name for running your own store is GameSpot, lol. Just send spies in to check GS current prices and trade values, then try to beat them by a small measure. Problem is, as a small business, distributors won't cater to you. Some games you won't be able to get day one, you also won't make, but loose money on new games. Your model will rely entirely on used game and consoles. Everything is out of pocket and you're competing with an entity that has endless pockets and aggressive sales strategies that you likely don't know anything about and can only hope to copy. If you deal in classic games, that's a whole other ballpark. Clientele are fickle and jaded, not to mention stock is scarce and hard to find at resell-able prices.
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: 90snostalga on March 23, 2014, 08:16:14 pm
How about Wii-R-Games for your retail store name?
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: teck on March 23, 2014, 08:26:29 pm
I think the best name for running your own store is GameSpot, lol. Just send spies in to check GS current prices and trade values, then try to beat them by a small measure. Problem is, as a small business, distributors won't cater to you. Some games you won't be able to get day one, you also won't make, but loose money on new games. Your model will rely entirely on used game and consoles. Everything is out of pocket and you're competing with an entity that has endless pockets and aggressive sales strategies that you likely don't know anything about and can only hope to copy. If you deal in classic games, that's a whole other ballpark. Clientele are fickle and jaded, not to mention stock is scarce and hard to find at resell-able prices.
Distributors are indeed a complete pain in the ass.... I have to deal with Hyperkin quite often and it is always a pain.... As far as new games, the answer seems to be just don't deal in them.... I've found that just being cheaper than Gamestop in every scenario is simple enough and does the trick.... If anyone has recommendations for the rapidly evaporating retro stock issue then please do enlighten....
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: Warmsignal on April 04, 2014, 09:57:06 pm
One sign to indicate retro collecting is in fact "dying" is the way that everything out there seems to have been already "collected". There is no collecting, if there's nothing left to collect.
I drove an hour out of my way to hit a stop I used to depend on a few years ago just today, and wow, my mind was blown. They had nothing. I actually said out loud and didn't mean to "the stock has definitely shrunk here", and pretty sure they heard me. Everything was picked through, mostly just crap left. I went in thinking "okay, I'm not going to get carried away and spend too much here" to thinking "isn't there one thing I can buy here?!" There wasn't, I left empty handed. The other nearby stop I used to make near there relocated out of state last fall. Definitely feels like the wells are drying up. Same story elsewhere, other spots I know of that I hit this year, stock didn't change from the last time I was there. Looked like nothing sold, and nothing new.
I feel like I got into this just before everyone wanted to jump onboard all at once. I had a couple of good years where finding anything was reasonable and people at yard sales didn't know "Nintendo is collectable now". Oh well, I'm past the half-way mark to where I want to be anyway. I don't mind buying most the rest of it online really, but it was fun finding things when you took a drive out to look around. :-\
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: teck on April 05, 2014, 06:15:52 pm
One sign to indicate retro collecting is in fact "dying" is the way that everything out there seems to have been already "collected". There is no collecting, if there's nothing left to collect.
I drove an hour out of my way to hit a stop I used to depend on a few years ago just today, and wow, my mind was blown. They had nothing. I actually said out loud and didn't mean to "the stock has definitely shrunk here", and pretty sure they heard me. Everything was picked through, mostly just crap left. I went in thinking "okay, I'm not going to get carried away and spend too much here" to thinking "isn't there one thing I can buy here?!" There wasn't, I left empty handed. The other nearby stop I used to make near there relocated out of state last fall. Definitely feels like the wells are drying up. Same story elsewhere, other spots I know of that I hit this year, stock didn't change from the last time I was there. Looked like nothing sold, and nothing new.
I feel like I got into this just before everyone wanted to jump onboard all at once. I had a couple of good years where finding anything was reasonable and people at yard sales didn't know "Nintendo is collectable now". Oh well, I'm past the half-way mark to where I want to be anyway. I don't mind buying most the rest of it online really, but it was fun finding things when you took a drive out to look around. :-\
It sounds to me that your definition of "retro collecting is dying" is simply counter to mine.... The fact that things are drying up means that collecting has gone up.... Even if I have a full COMPLETE collection, does not mean collecting died.... I would still be a collector, but it would just be a complete collection.... I view collecting as going up as scarcity continues.... So that's where I'm coming from.... I get how our views differ now....
Title: Re: Retro collecting is dying!
Post by: Warmsignal on April 05, 2014, 09:23:31 pm
Well I'm not the OP just commenting its harder to do now because resources have dried up. The desire for this stuff will never actually die out. If you think about it, classic games are more finite than most other old collected things. Unless reproductions start coming out which I'm not opposed to by any means.
It sounds to me that your definition of "retro collecting is dying" is simply counter to mine.... The fact that things are drying up means that collecting has gone up.... Even if I have a full COMPLETE collection, does not mean collecting died.... I would still be a collector, but it would just be a complete collection.... I view collecting as going up as scarcity continues.... So that's where I'm coming from.... I get how our views differ now....