VGCollect Forum
VGCollect Site Stuff => Video Game Database Discussion => Topic started by: vivigamer on January 20, 2023, 05:57:48 pm
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Hi,
I've taken a great amount of time to sort out images for the listings over the years - Mostly scans from websites but I do make effort to crop or neaten them up with Photoshop at the very least. I just wanted to address some of the issues I am having here recently.
Admin comments: Missing corner holofoil label
I've uploaded many images before that have not had te holofoil label and it's been fine. What annoys me is when I upload are accepted then quickly overwritten by someone who is taking poor quality photos. Here are some examples:
https://vgcollect.com/item/231970 - I uploaded a replacement image a few weeks ago and it was denied then replaced with a poor quality photo at an angle.
https://vgcollect.com/item/97101 - I replaced this image which had a mannual cover and it has been replaced with another image altogether With the Holofoil (but lesser quality).
https://vgcollect.com/item/97050 - I repalced this image as the colour looked really faded yet it has been reverted back to the previous design in an instant.
There are a lot of examples of this, I don't want to harp on but there are times when I look back at my collection on the site and suddenly see a garrish image stick out. Is the protocol really to preference poor quality photos with glare or at an angle to a decent scan? Is the only way for me to fix this to place my game covers in a scanner CIB?
Photos of the manuals instead of the inlay
This is also a big problem, I find a lot of the images have the manual images rather than the inlay - The main indication is the gap on the bottom left corner.
Full Case Display - Do we included the full inlay with the sides or the Plastic Embossed strips at the side.
I'm not making this post to whine, I just don't want to keep wasting my time when I see the work I put out replaced like this - Othertimes I have posted images with minor faults on them and I appreciate the admin team making such notes.
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Hey Vivigamer, I just wanted to say thank you for all your time and hard work. I know how it feels to spend a lot of time editing an image just right, just to have it be denied or replaced entirely.
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Most, if not all, of the replacement images or edit rejections were done by me.
Under the current style guide rules, the holofoil is important information and should be considered as a component to complete artwork as it is a formal part of the packaging. For PlayStation and PlayStation 2 EU items, the holofoil is not always (but is usually) present, so providing the best image information to showcase packaging information is a detail in accordance to our guidelines. Something else to consider is that cases are often swapped on secondary markets, so knowing which items actually include a holofoil label is a detail many would find helpful.
What annoys me is when I upload are accepted then quickly overwritten by someone who is taking poor quality photos.
Outlined in the Item Images post (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10837.msg177804.html#msg177804) of the Advanced Style Guide, there is a tier system for images that determines which images are most ideal for entry art. While holofoil-less art is fine to submit and will be approved if it is a higher tier or better quality of a same-tier image, it should be understood that, at any time and by any other user, a user's image can be replaced if a better image is submitted. Had I known you weren't just uploading saved images without any degree of editing involved, I probably would have reached out to you. With that said, I do make a strong effort to find the best quality image of the highest tier that I can for any entry I contribute information for—images are generally taken from cropped photos, since most of the work I do relates to items I don't own. The chief reason I do this is because online scans regularly omit information and stock art is almost always outdated, so relying on a photo of the actual item itself ensures that the entry art is accurate. However, sometimes I find scans that are ideal, although, for this category, it is generally only for back cover art.
Like you mentioned, the quality of entry artwork for PlayStation EU is poor overall. For many entries, the front image slot either features a generic image that omits details such as holofoil label, game rating, and front item number information or a scan of the actual artwork that omits the holofoil label. There are too many instances of poor images, so I've stopped replacing every problematic front art and now am only updating the field for when the images are wrong entirely. Another aspect to consider is that most PlayStation EU items have a unique front item number (usually repeating barcode information) that relates to the regional release, but that information is generally difficult for edit queue mods to confirm due to the small image quality that is shown during the submission process, unless there are other regional differences present that are easily identifiable.
https://vgcollect.com/item/231970 - I uploaded a replacement image a few weeks ago and it was denied then replaced with a poor quality photo at an angle.
Actually, this is a new entry I submitted, and I also handled your front image edit submission for it. The same issue happened—your submitted image omitted the holofoil label, so approving that edit would have brought the field information down a tier as it would have removed crucial information. The entry has only ever had one front image, as evident by the entry history.
https://vgcollect.com/item/97050 - I repalced this image as the colour looked really faded yet it has been reverted back to the previous design in an instant.
The front art was not reverted. The original image was a generic image which omitted both the holofoil label and front item number in addition to the "PlayStation" text being positioned incorrectly. Your submitted image is the same as the current artwork but it omitted the holofoil label.
Full Case Display - Do we included the full inlay with the sides or the Plastic Embossed strips at the side.
If I am understanding what you mean, then no. Spines should be not be a part of either the front or back art slot. The case packaging in its entirety should also be absent, unless there is some variance between multiple releases that relates to which type of case was used for each item while sealed.
Is the only way for me to fix this to place my game covers in a scanner CIB?
If you are wanting high quality images that can replace the current images such as with entry 231970, then probably so. Personally, I prefer submitting image information with the highest tier possible that is available to me. This allows for fewer future updates to the field so that work can be done elsewhere for other entries. Have you considered taking a similar approach? Scanning artwork like you suggested may not be an option for you, but collecting decent quality photos through online classifieds such as eBay is still an option that anyone can do. Again, I am only suggesting this because, given the image tiers that you have been submitting, the images can at any time still be updated by anyone at anytime.
Hey vivigamer, I just wanted to say thank you for all your time and hard work.
I'd like to echo this sentiment. I feel as if it isn't often made clear here that user-submitted work is appreciated for the efforts involved, but it certainly is.
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@dhaabi, So... if i have better scans of game cover, but without holofoil, no need to try to update the image, because even if image are bad, but with holo, it better? As i see, all PS2 holofoils placed on DVD-case, while i'm scanning covers...
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These are holograms not holofoils. Holofoil is a completely different type of printing than holograms.
Any image that has a bad quality BUT actually represents the item (meaning it has the hologram present) can only be replaced with another image that also has the hologram present.
We do want better quality images, but not at the loss of information.
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I agree with vivigamer here.
This is a really bad change
allot of listings look really poor now.
https://vgcollect.com/item/226806
https://vgcollect.com/item/231238
https://vgcollect.com/item/19385
https://vgcollect.com/item/233763
Where not hiding any info by not including the plastic box. any pal collector knows this. You'll see way less of the actual images this way. your just scanning the plastic box.
Imagine if you where to do this for usa versions of disc based games like dreamcast or ps1 it will just downgrade the images, your scanning the box art through a plastic box
Didn't notice this sooner, but we suddenly got allot of items with very poor images
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I agree with vivigamer here.
This is a really bad change
allot of listings look really poor now.
https://vgcollect.com/item/226806
https://vgcollect.com/item/231238
https://vgcollect.com/item/19385
https://vgcollect.com/item/233763
Where not hiding any info by not including the plastic box. any pal collector knows this. You'll see way less of the actual images this way. your just scanning the plastic box.
Imagine if you where to do this for usa versions of disc based games like dreamcast or ps1 it will just downgrade the images, your scanning the box art through a plastic box
Didn't notice this sooner, but we suddenly got allot of items with very poor images
+1
I agree
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Tried to replace these with decent quality covers that lack these imperfections. but allot of them got rejected for missing the hologram.
The above quote is from your other post in the error listings thread. Despite my only mentioning the absence of the hologram in your submission images, most of them were just incorrect for other reasons. Like I detailed above in this topic, a lot of these "quality" scans are either of the front insert, instruction booklet, or are just outdated stock art that different from the actual front cover art. In many of these images you prefer, the front item number which is an expected detail in PS1 EU items is often omitted in addition to the "PlayStation" text being usually formatted incorrectly.
Like I mentioned in the PM I sent to you, we are interested in maintaining all information present found on items. We do not want to sacrifice any information at the cost of less detailed but higher quality art, as it is disingenuous. Some items include hologram labels, and some do not. Just like other items, we want to preserve all detail found on items.
As you will see from your last approved edit submission, it is possible to scan high quality images of these items with the hologram still present. Here is the previous and newly-approved art for an item.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDBaQVC.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/829QuFg.jpg)
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Tried to replace these with decent quality covers that lack these imperfections. but allot of them got rejected for missing the hologram.
The above quote is from your other post in the error listings thread. Despite my only mentioning the absence of the hologram in your submission images, most of them were just incorrect for other reasons. Like I detailed above in this topic, a lot of these "quality" scans are either of the front insert, instruction booklet, or are just outdated stock art that different from the actual front cover art. In many of these images you prefer, the front item number which is an expected detail in PS1 EU items is often omitted in addition to the "PlayStation" text being usually formatted incorrectly.
Like I mentioned in the PM I sent to you, we are interested in maintaining all information present found on items. We do not want to sacrifice any information at the cost of less detailed but higher quality art, as it is disingenuous. Some items include hologram labels, and some do not. Just like other items, we want to preserve all detail found on items.
As you will see from your last approved edit submission, it is possible to scan high quality images of these items with the hologram still present. Here is the previous and newly-approved art for an item.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDBaQVC.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/829QuFg.jpg)
I altered a couple of the really bad ones, but it is allot more work for info which I'd argue many would ignore. plus this new rule will result in allot of poor listings that looked perfectly fine prior to this
it's not scanned with the hologram btw you just insert a hologram of a box on an actually high quality scanned item that wasn't in the plastic case. it's impossible to scan it nicely in the orginal case even if said case was in flawless shape.
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I altered a couple of the really bad ones, but it is allot more work for info which I'd argue many would ignore. plus this new rule will result in allot of poor listings that looked perfectly fine prior to this
it's not scanned with the hologram BTW you just insert a hologram of a box on an actually high quality scanned item that wasn't in the plastic case. it's impossible to scan it nicely in the original case even if said case was in flawless shape.
+1
sworddude, thanks for trying to explain about scanning things to dhaabi.
Here is a suggestion:
I think the site should use the nice looking covers (providing they are the correct artwork) without the holograms. And, a note should be placed in the description field that stating that "a hologram is located on the bottom left corner of the jewel case front", that way no data would be lost in the database.
The data field we are discussing is "Front Box Art", to me (and I think most users) a hologram placed on the front of the jewel case is not actually part of the "Front Box Art". If the hologram is physically attached to the artwork (not the jewel case) then it should be seen in the "Front Box Art" picture.
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The data field we are discussing is "Front Box Art", to me (and I think most users) a hologram placed on the front of the jewel case is not actually part of the "Front Box Art". If the hologram is physically attached to the artwork (not the jewel case) then it should be seen in the "Front Box Art" picture.
exactly, no other database did this. even specialised ones like psxdata center didn't do this. and nobody scanned pictures with said hologram because it would result in terrible images considering the average plastic ps1 case ain't in the best shape plus said plastic is pretty thick. Let alone even in pristine shape you'll notice the downgrade.
Here is a suggestion:
I think the site should use the nice looking covers (providing they are the correct artwork) without the holograms. And, a note should be placed in the description field that stating that "a hologram is located on the bottom left corner of the jewel case front", that way no data would be lost in the database.
I 2nd this, seems like a good solution if some on here really care about said hologram that much (are there any actual pal collectors that care). Because images like these are just unacceptable. There is no way that such a downgrade is justified just because it has a hologram lable that almost nobody cares about
(https://i.imgur.com/7cDh6dC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eHesVat.jpg)+
On a extra note, can we at least have some standards before a hologram edit is accepted. Just edit a hologram on an already nice quality scanned front cover if you have to. It's painfull to see all these low quality pics being accepted which where perfectly fine prior to this :P
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Tried to replace these with decent quality covers that lack these imperfections. but allot of them got rejected for missing the hologram.
The above quote is from your other post in the error listings thread. Despite my only mentioning the absence of the hologram in your submission images, most of them were just incorrect for other reasons. Like I detailed above in this topic, a lot of these "quality" scans are either of the front insert, instruction booklet, or are just outdated stock art that different from the actual front cover art. In many of these images you prefer, the front item number which is an expected detail in PS1 EU items is often omitted in addition to the "PlayStation" text being usually formatted incorrectly.
Like I mentioned in the PM I sent to you, we are interested in maintaining all information present found on items. We do not want to sacrifice any information at the cost of less detailed but higher quality art, as it is disingenuous. Some items include hologram labels, and some do not. Just like other items, we want to preserve all detail found on items.
As you will see from your last approved edit submission, it is possible to scan high quality images of these items with the hologram still present. Here is the previous and newly-approved art for an item.
(https://i.imgur.com/FDBaQVC.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/829QuFg.jpg)
I altered a couple of the really bad ones, but it is allot more work for info which I'd argue many would ignore. plus this new rule will result in allot of poor listings that looked perfectly fine prior to this
it's not scanned with the hologram btw you just insert a hologram of a box on an actually high quality scanned item that wasn't in the plastic case. it's impossible to scan it nicely in the orginal case even if said case was in flawless shape.
This isn't any new rule. I am merely enforcing a rule that has long existed. We have always prioritized the most accurate image information over lesser ones.
On that note, do not submit edited images like these. Finding images or the means to scan these items is not difficult to do. Submitting doctored photos for this one type of item that you prefer being done is a bad precedent for all items within the database.
I have rejected your other edit submissions you've since sent in submitting fake images like these and have reverted the Harvest Moon: Back to Nature art. It should also be publicly stated again aside from just my provided admin comments that many of your edited images were just wrong. What was wrong about them is that there is more than one kind of hologram label, and you were editing incorrect labels onto image mockups. It is for reasons like these that edited photos are not permitted and will be rejected if it is known they are edits.
(https://i.imgur.com/hj3nadL.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/7YejqkP.jpg)
With that said, it is impossible to tell which hologram was originally featured for a hologram-present item without observing a sealed copy. So, unless a sealed copy is observed, we must use good judgment in seeing what is shown online on sites such as eBay.
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I altered a couple of the really bad ones, but it is allot more work for info which I'd argue many would ignore. plus this new rule will result in allot of poor listings that looked perfectly fine prior to this
it's not scanned with the hologram BTW you just insert a hologram of a box on an actually high quality scanned item that wasn't in the plastic case. it's impossible to scan it nicely in the original case even if said case was in flawless shape.
+1
sworddude, thanks for trying to explain about scanning things to dhaabi.
Here is a suggestion:
I think the site should use the nice looking covers (providing they are the correct artwork) without the holograms. And, a note should be placed in the description field that stating that "a hologram is located on the bottom left corner of the jewel case front", that way no data would be lost in the database.
I understand your side of the matter. Of course, everyone prefers higher quality art that is free from glare, cracks, and so forth. But, the hologram is a part of the full product. None of our members collect the same—generally, there are three kinds of collectors: loose, open but complete, and sealed. Obviously a sealed copy will contain the most information in every circumstance, which is why if there is valuable sealed only information present, we prefer those images. It is no different than the hologram label for these items.
We already allow using the Description field like this. There are other entries which currently state when any image detail is not present in the existing art but isn't actually shown for whatever reason. But, as has been already mentioned, gathering images complete with hologram is without issue, so there are some entries which feature them. If the quality is bothersome, then submitting higher quality but same tier images is always an option which we will gladly approve (if authentic, as I explained before.)
Front/Back art slot image type priority for physical items
We prioritize the best quality image for each slot, however if a better quality image is submitted that is a tier below the existing image (even if the existing image is poor or lesser quality) it will be rejected.
1. Sealed
2. Not sealed but complete
Items that have multiple layers of packaging, should have the outer layer represented in the images. Front or back cover may have labels present.
Examples:
Ape Escape (https://vgcollect.com/item/12959) on PlayStation has a square PlayStation hologram label on the front cover.
(https://vgcollect.com/images/front-box-art/12959.jpg)
3. Not sealed but missing labels and/or obi strip
4. Any picture of the physical item
5. Post release stock photo
6. Pre-release stock photo
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(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/025/543/eca.jpg)
Whatever, I'm done with edits, i'll just accept the shitty quality of future edits it's like talking to a brick wall anyway
I can't recall the database being such a hassle a few years back miss those times
Very dissapointing though. sorry for sounding ungratefull but this is definitely a change that's pretty sizable for the worse.
Also is there legitimately any pal collector on this site that cares about it.
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Whatever, I'm done with edits, i'll just accept the shitty quality of future edits it's like talking to a brick wall anyway
I can't recall the database being such a hassle a few years back miss those times
I generally do not respond to comments like these, but I will in this instance. sworddude, I am only someone who is upholding the existing rules, which has historically not always been done with staff edit approvals. Until anything is changed otherwise, I am only doing my duties in honoring such rules. This is not like "talking to a brick wall." I am acknowledging your concerns and explaining why your edits can't be approved now. Of course, no one wants to see their edits be rejected after having spent time on submitting work. But, at the same time, if approving such edits comes at the cost of featuring incorrect or unauthentic information, then it should not be done.
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all hologram lables on pal games are identical they just have 2 different pictures depending on how you reflect them in the light it is all identical.
You have been posting one conversation in two separate threads, so this is in response to a comment elsewhere. I wasn't aware of that detail, as I do not own any PAL PlayStation releases. I watched an unboxing video verifying that this is true, so I appreciate being informed of this. However, regardless of whether the edited hologram labels are correct, they are disingenuous as mentioned before and should not be submitted.
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all hologram lables on pal games are identical they just have 2 different pictures depending on how you reflect them in the light it is all identical.
You have been posting one conversation in two separate threads, so this is in response to a comment elsewhere. I wasn't aware of that detail, as I do not own any PAL PlayStation releases. I watched an unboxing video verifying that this is true, so I appreciate being informed of this. However, regardless of whether the edited hologram labels are correct, they are disingenuous as mentioned before and should not be submitted.
you are right about that detail, one has the background text straight and one has the text at an angle it is a slight difference. That being said unless it's a sealed copy or if it's a copy with exclusive stickers you will see both on most games and only a chosen few might notice or value this. Because cases get replaced or maybe it was a different batch
otherwise they all have 2 different images depending on the angle how you look at them. and they both look the same except for the angle of the background text
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Thanks for the info, I did not know the hologram showed two different images. That post in the Adv Guide is just to indicate that a hologram is present, not be specific about what it is specifically.
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I prefer just using the most accurate representation of the actual item variant instead of a better quality version that's missing "features". It looks ugly but it's very helpful for disambiguating a variant and to have as much accurate info as possible. Any pic/info is potentially temporary, if a better scan is made/found in the future it'll get updated at that time.
I personally use the Canon Lide 110 to do my scans, I got it second-hand for like 25 $ CAD. It works very well using my settings. If someone is purchasing one and wants to know which settings I'm using, just PM me.
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Most, if not all, of the replacement images or edit rejections were done by me.
Under the current style guide rules, the holofoil is important information and should be considered as a component to complete artwork as it is a formal part of the packaging. For PlayStation and PlayStation 2 EU items, the holofoil is not always (but is usually) present, so providing the best image information to showcase packaging information is a detail in accordance to our guidelines. Something else to consider is that cases are often swapped on secondary markets, so knowing which items actually include a holofoil label is a detail many would find helpful.
As a collector of both PS1 and PS2 EU games ive added hundreds of photos to the EU entries within this database.
I must say i had no idea that the holofoils were preferable, ive never included these due to the fact that the only way to scan these is to keep the cover inside the game case. And that means you will ALWAYS get an inferior scan of the actual artwork as the scan must scan through the plastic cover. And lets face it, its rare to find an immaculate plastic PS1 case cover these days, or a PS2 cover for that matter. These games have been stored on shelves and therefore 100% of front covers are scuffed to varying degrees.
Another reason that holofoil scans will 100% be inferior quality is the fact that when you scan the entire game the scanner doesnt close properly! PS1 games are about 1cm thick and that means the scanner lid will remain open. This ensures a bad scan 100% of the time. PS2 games are slimmer but the scanner lid will still not close properly resulting in an inferior scan too.
Its always better quality to remove the PS1 or PS2 game cover from the case and scan it. I always remove the back covers from the PS1 cases, which is fiddly but worth it for the image quality.
I can also add the issue that not many PS2 games have the holofoil on the front cover, theyre usually on the back cover. Many PS2 games have been re-cased over the years and have been put into incorrect cases. Old DVD cases for example. Add to this the fact that there are TWO different PS2 holofoils in existence, and its not unusual for games to get re-housed in the wrong cases. Only collectors will notice that a game is in its correct case from their experience. But to be fair, thats one of the functions of using a collectors database, to learn how the original game was packaged.
You also have the issue of 'bigbox' PS1 releases which generally dont have any holofoil at all. Although the Final Fantasy bigbox releases all have holofoils.
Maybe have a database entry on PS1/PS2 games to indicate the position of the holofoil?
I have around 500 PS1 games and 900 PS2 games, do you want me to go back and scan the covers with the holofoils? (you will get inferior scans to whats currently in the database)
My advice is to use cover scans that have been removed from their cases due to the very simple fact that these will be high quality images with all the detail. The holofoils are not relevant or important to the image. The fact that every game company releases their digital cover artwork images WITHOUT the holofoil is the strongest support that we dont use them in the database imo. Keep the database images clean and high quality.
EDIT: i understand ive used the term 'holofoil' throughout when 'hologram' was probably the correct term used in this thread! lol
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I altered a couple of the really bad ones, but it is allot more work for info which I'd argue many would ignore. plus this new rule will result in allot of poor listings that looked perfectly fine prior to this
it's not scanned with the hologram btw you just insert a hologram of a box on an actually high quality scanned item that wasn't in the plastic case. it's impossible to scan it nicely in the orginal case even if said case was in flawless shape.
Agree +1
As i point out above, scanning through the case means you will get an inferior image 100% of the time.
And PS1 and PS2 collectors do not care about what little information the holofoil provides. We know they exist and we know how they should be positioned. They just get in the way of the cover art image imo.
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Another reason that holofoil scans will 100% be inferior quality is the fact that when you scan the entire game the scanner doesnt close properly! PS1 games are about 1cm thick and that means the scanner lid will remain open. This ensures a bad scan 100% of the time.
You need to use a form or a guide to scan items with the lid open. The lid is just blocking light scatter and you can use anything to serve that function. I variously use blocking elements when scanning (even in general) or when I am scanning something that is too big. The alternative to that then is to take a photo instead. Not recommending going to a shmaxian degree using a lightbox. I don't try to scan games in cases or boxes, mainly only flat items. Photo for everything else. I used to just have a piece of wood against a wall I would take photos against, trying to get it as straight on as possible. Here is an example from when I was doing variation guides for Sega-16.
(https://i.imgur.com/VNAUaLLl.jpg)
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Another reason that holofoil scans will 100% be inferior quality is the fact that when you scan the entire game the scanner doesnt close properly! PS1 games are about 1cm thick and that means the scanner lid will remain open. This ensures a bad scan 100% of the time.
You need to use a form or a guide to scan items with the lid open. The lid is just blocking light scatter and you can use anything to serve that function. I variously use blocking elements when scanning (even in general) or when I am scanning something that is too big. The alternative to that then is to take a photo instead. Not recommending going to a shmaxian degree using a lightbox. I don't try to scan games in cases or boxes, mainly only flat items. Photo for everything else. I used to just have a piece of wood against a wall I would take photos against, trying to get it as straight on as possible. Here is an example from when I was doing variation guides for Sega-16.
(https://i.imgur.com/VNAUaLLl.jpg)
Im sure there are ways to mitigate the poorer quality when scanning the full game on the scanner. My point is that scanning the insert is always going to yield better results, literally every time. Right?
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Im sure there are ways to mitigate the poorer quality when scanning the full game on the scanner. My point is that scanning the insert is always going to yield better results, literally every time. Right?
Perhaps so. Nevertheless, we are concerned about highlighting as much accuracy as possible for each specific item. So, if an item features a hologram label, the most accurate image would be one that includes it. Whether collectors are aware of its presence or not makes no difference, because we are making attempts to preserve correct data. This is not to say someone should go out of their way to re-scan art so that hologram labels are present on entry artwork. But, if someone were to do that and existing entry art is missing that information, it would be more valuable to our site and therefore approved, even if the overall quality of the scan or art lessens.
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Im sure there are ways to mitigate the poorer quality when scanning the full game on the scanner. My point is that scanning the insert is always going to yield better results, literally every time. Right?
Perhaps so. Nevertheless, we are concerned about highlighting as much accuracy as possible for each specific item. So, if an item features a hologram label, the most accurate image would be one that includes it. Whether collectors are aware of its presence or not makes no difference, because we are making attempts to preserve correct data. This is not to say someone should go out of their way to re-scan art so that hologram labels are present on entry artwork. But, if someone were to do that and existing entry art is missing that information, it would be more valuable to our site and therefore approved, even if the overall quality of the scan or art lessens.
Ok that makes the requirements clearer.
Although i will still argue that the hologram is not part of the cover art and therefore it shouldnt be part of the cover art scans in the database. As i already pointed out, the game companies themselves dont include the hologram when they produce cover art for commercial purposes. The Hologram is a component of the physical game case/sleeve/housing and not the artwork.
Now, if there was a photo entry in the database for the physical game as it looks complete....
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Ok that makes the requirements clearer.
Although i will still argue that the hologram is not part of the cover art and therefore it shouldnt be part of the cover art scans in the database. As i already pointed out, the game companies themselves dont include the hologram when they produce cover art for commercial purposes. The Hologram is a component of the physical game case/sleeve/housing and not the artwork.
Now, if there was a photo entry in the database for the physical game as it looks complete....
You're right—the hologram label isn't a part of the cover art design. However, cover art design is not what the front and back art slots are intended for, anyway, although many members think otherwise.
Physical game categories track physical products, so images should be of the item itself and not just cover art design. This is one reason why there are so many existing variant entries, because there is often some sort of label difference affixed to the packaging. So, with that explained, it only makes sense that hologram labels should also be included, because they are a component of the entire physical product.
Many other sites feature clean scans of inlay art. They are beneficial, but they do not always serve our site's needs as variant tracking is a focus.
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Ok that makes the requirements clearer.
Although i will still argue that the hologram is not part of the cover art and therefore it shouldnt be part of the cover art scans in the database. As i already pointed out, the game companies themselves dont include the hologram when they produce cover art for commercial purposes. The Hologram is a component of the physical game case/sleeve/housing and not the artwork.
Now, if there was a photo entry in the database for the physical game as it looks complete....
You're right—the hologram label isn't a part of the cover art design. However, cover art design is not what the front and back art slots are intended for, anyway, although many members think otherwise.
Physical game categories track physical products, so images should be of the item itself and not just cover art design. This is one reason why there are so many existing variant entries, because there is often some sort of label difference affixed to the packaging. So, with that explained, it only makes sense that hologram labels should also be included, because they are a component of the entire physical product.
This however is false because the hologram is literally a thing for almost every ps1 pal game. The hologram being there or not makes no difference at all.
I get different variants but the holograms in pal ps1 or ps2 games ain't it. let's say you had 2 to different 10 versions of said pal ps1 game they will all have that same hologram. The differenes found within said versions will be found elsewhere the hologram is pointless in this case.
You can only make this argument for a handfull of sports games or games that actually have unique stickers on the front that fit the game and only for that variant of the game. Holograms are however never the differentiating factor here.
Your confusing different versions with just generic lables that every game has.
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This however is false because the hologram is literally a thing for almost every ps1 pal game. The hologram being there or not makes no difference at all.
Your confusing different versions with just generic lables that every game has.
I'm not confusing anything. You're glancing over the entirety of my response. Let's omit the middle statement:
Physical game categories track physical products, so images should be of the item itself and not just cover art design. This is one reason why there are so many existing variant entries, because there is often some sort of label difference affixed to the packaging. So, with that explained, it only makes sense that hologram labels should also be included, because they are a component of the entire physical product.
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This however is false because the hologram is literally a thing for almost every ps1 pal game. The hologram being there or not makes no difference at all.
Your confusing different versions with just generic lables that every game has.
I'm not confusing anything. You're glancing over the entirety of my response. Let's omit the middle statement:
Physical game categories track physical products, so images should be of the item itself and not just cover art design. This is one reason why there are so many existing variant entries, because there is often some sort of label difference affixed to the packaging. So, with that explained, it only makes sense that hologram labels should also be included, because they are a component of the entire physical product.
I saw it, but why bring up this middle section than, It's why I specifically focussed on that part. It's incorrect, hologram isn't why we have so many different variants. There are plenty of actual unique differences in which you have different variations among the same game.
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I saw it, but why bring up this middle section than, It's why I specifically focussed on that part. It's incorrect, hologram isn't why we have so many different variants. There are plenty of actual unique differences in which you have different variations among the same game.
Why mention this statement at all? Because the conversation relates to outer labels, not specifically hologram labels. Because hologram labels were already mentioned, I continued to use that type of label as an example to highlight that they're needed because we track physical products which isn't cover art alone.
It's unlikely that the presence of a hologram label is the sole difference between two unique items, but it could be possible. That is not what I am arguing at any point, though. Like I've already stated, plenty of variants relate to labels, whether you acknowledge that fact or otherwise. Below are types of labels I've come across which would often be lost if relying on cover art scans alone.
hologram label
https://vgcollect.com/item/30113
https://vgcollect.com/item/239460
regional labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/247896
rating labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/243123
edition labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/212154
distribution labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/241042
bundled set labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/240417
barcode labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/236002
store labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/249194
https://vgcollect.com/item/249195
promotion labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/209394
correction labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/184081
design differences labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/9954
https://vgcollect.com/item/9955
general outer labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/228196
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I saw it, but why bring up this middle section than, It's why I specifically focussed on that part. It's incorrect, hologram isn't why we have so many different variants. There are plenty of actual unique differences in which you have different variations among the same game.
Why mention this statement at all? Because the conversation relates to outer labels, not specifically hologram labels. Because hologram labels were already mentioned, I continued to use that type of label as an example to highlight that they're needed because we track physical products which isn't cover art alone.
It's unlikely that the presence of a hologram label is the sole difference between two unique items, but it could be possible. That is not what I am arguing at any point, though. Like I've already stated, plenty of variants relate to labels, whether you acknowledge that fact or otherwise. Below are types of labels I've come across which would often be lost if relying on cover art scans alone.
hologram label
https://vgcollect.com/item/30113
https://vgcollect.com/item/239460
regional labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/247896
rating labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/243123
edition labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/212154
distribution labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/241042
bundled set labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/240417
barcode labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/236002
store labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/249194
https://vgcollect.com/item/249195
promotion labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/209394
correction labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/184081
design differences labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/9954
https://vgcollect.com/item/9955
general outer labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/228196
I agree with most of these examples cause the lables are unique per item or just a small group of items. I've already given some examples of these more unique scenario's myself in previous posts.
Complaint about low quality scans in say pal ps1 section are usually for regular items with identical hologram lables though. and that is where I have an issue. because it wouldn't be needed there. It's just the pal standard.
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I saw it, but why bring up this middle section than, It's why I specifically focussed on that part. It's incorrect, hologram isn't why we have so many different variants. There are plenty of actual unique differences in which you have different variations among the same game.
Why mention this statement at all? Because the conversation relates to outer labels, not specifically hologram labels. Because hologram labels were already mentioned, I continued to use that type of label as an example to highlight that they're needed because we track physical products which isn't cover art alone.
It's unlikely that the presence of a hologram label is the sole difference between two unique items, but it could be possible. That is not what I am arguing at any point, though. Like I've already stated, plenty of variants relate to labels, whether you acknowledge that fact or otherwise. Below are types of labels I've come across which would often be lost if relying on cover art scans alone.
hologram label
https://vgcollect.com/item/30113
https://vgcollect.com/item/239460
regional labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/247896
rating labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/243123
edition labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/212154
distribution labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/241042
bundled set labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/240417
barcode labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/236002
store labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/249194
https://vgcollect.com/item/249195
promotion labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/209394
correction labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/184081
design differences labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/9954
https://vgcollect.com/item/9955
general outer labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/228196
You have effectively proven my point with this list.
I 100% agree with you that in some cases the hologram or label can be a unique identifier to a specific release of the game. And your list is a nice resource to see alot of those possible differences :)
But, everyone who collects PS1 games knows that the standard Sony Playstation hologram on the front cover is totally generic, it appears on every official PS1 release. Now, there are a few exceptions to this rule, as i stated above, the 'bigbox' releases generally dont have the Playstation Hologram although Final Fantasy and a couple of others do. But the point is that the hologram doesnt prove a variance, its the standard.
Now, the PS2 releases are more interesting because there are two different Sony Playstation holograms. One is the Diamond Playstation logo and the other reads PS2. Although they both effectively mean the same as the PS1 releases, theyre on almost every game so they dont signifying anything, theyre also generic. They sometimes appear on the front with most of them appearing on the rear.
There are some holograms specific to certain games franchises, FIFA, NBA, WWE, usually sports governing bodies. And they dont appear on every release so I can see why including those holograms in the scan is definitely important. In these cases i agree with Dhaabi, although with regard to the standard PS1/PS2 hologram i agree with sworddude.
I think we will all have to agree to disagree on how useful the PS1/PS2 holograms are for the database entry, its definitely divided everyone lol