VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => Classic Video Games => Topic started by: shoryuken4u on October 19, 2012, 11:38:27 am
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I ask this because I am getting my ass handed to me in Donkey Kong Country as well as a slew of other SNES games. My PS3 games have not been all that hard with the exception of the notoriously difficult Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.
Out of curiosity, what have been the most difficult retro games for you guys?
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the reason why retro games are so difficult is because the lack of memory on the cartridge see what most game developers did back then is make 5 to 10 levels and pump up the difficulty to make it feel longer than it is now some developers did make games with more then 10 levels but it was very hard and expensive to do
Out of curiosity, what have been the most difficult retro games for you guys?
For me it a FPS from 1998 called nam and lets say that i died in 40 seconds of playing the first level on the easiest setting those virtual vietnamese people don't fu@k around
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Absolutely.
There are very few modern games that capture the difficultly of the classic games. Games back then were more skill based and really forced you to get better. A lot of the early games were ports of arcade titles which by their very nature were difficult since the goal was to hopefully force the user into pumping in more quarters.
Publishers also weren't so worried about competing against movies and other forms of entertainment. It seems that now the target market has shifted and so has the difficulty. Thus you'll see most games with a casual setting where the user can simply coast through the game in order to be entertained. The only games that buck this trend are from the indie market where they don't have to worry so much about sales figures and pleasing a publisher.
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I wouldn't necessarily say that retro games are harder. Sure, some retro games are hard as hell, but so are some newer games too. The challenges are different, and what htimreimer said is right to a degree. I find it hard to compare retro games and new games because they are so different. Is Adventure for 2600 harder than Skyward Sword? Some would say yes, I personally wouldn't even compare them.
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If you look at a single level I think that modern games can be just as challenging as retro games. When you consider that retro games do not allow you to save or restart right from where you died I think the challenge is greater in retro games
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I personaly believe in what was said before, its hard to compare retro and new gen because they are so diffrent in so many ways. If you look at some retro games they are as difficult as they come (Dragon treasure 2600 or even Donkey Kong Country) and there are very hard new gen games (Demon Souls) but these two games have to many diffrences to compare. For instance in Donkey Kong Country its a solid platformer (left or right) where as Demon Souls has depth and 360 degree rotation right there is a diffrent playing field. Even the free roam games of the time like (Zelda nes) have to many diffrences to the new gen games we have to day because once again zelda only has 4 ways of direction and that in a way makes it more simple but more hard if you think about it. I think that the gap between gens is to far to compare them in difficulty.
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Heck yeah they were harder! Kids today are pansies. Back in my day we walked 2 miles in the snow uphill, just to play some Super Mario Bros.! We didn't have tutorial levels. You just jumped in the game and mashed buttons until you didn't die. Sure we had instruction manuals, but that was just for the pictures and a vague backstory.
Kids today don't realize how good they have it. You know what we called a buggy game back in my day? Huh? We called it hard and finished it anyway! Now days if you get stuck on a part of a game, the game is broken.
Games were hard as hell. We didn't have these new fangled interwebs to look up cheats and walkthroughs. What did we have? A bi-monthly magizine called Nintendo Power! The walkthrough we got was the bullshit the kids in the lunchroom at school were spouting. Remember that kid that said you could shoot the dog in Duckhunt if you put in a code? Or if you shot the tree enough it would fall over?
Have you ever played Castlevania II without a guide? It's next to impossible. Guess what. I knew that Dracula looked like a dead WWI pilot years ago. What was on his head that looked like goggles anyway?
So, in a short answer yes. I am getting to be a crotchety old man.
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YES! One of the big reasons I switched to retro games is because of the difficulty. Most of my friends at school say that retro games are so easy and I should play real games like Halo. I would like to see the looks on their face if they played something like Wizardry! Of what I have played this is what I would consider to be the hardest and I am slowly making my way though it making my own maps.
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I agree that now games seem easier, but as someone pointed out before most games were arcade ports that which in general are just difficult to get more money. I think the market is just a lot different now. Playing video games was kind of a niche thing back then and the only people playing them wanted the arcade experience which in turn brought the difficulty along with it. Older games too were limited in space and another way to make the game feel longer is to add a difficulty in different ways such as memorization such is the case with DKC and Contra.
Me personally, this is one reason why I enjoy retro more than modern because I like quick action that takes really fast reflexes and memory as opposed to playing a game that can last into 80+ hours of play.
And to answer your other question, one of the most difficult retro games for me is actually DKC2 it took me forever to get past the last world and strangely enough one of the hardest fighting games I've ever played Samurai Shodown 3 on the Neo Geo,extremly difficult. And of course the Metal Slug games
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My PS3 games have not been all that hard with the exception of the notoriously difficult Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.
Like a few others have said - I think there were hard retro games (but, I didn't think Adventure (2600:)) was one of 'em...which, in all honesty, could have been due to the number of hours that I spent playing it :P
...And, I think that there are still hard games today.
Also (as others have already said), in many ways -comparing them is pretty much 'apples 'n' oranges'.
*HOWEVER* -
- I *can* point you towards some "not-very-easy" games for your PS3 :)
Since I know that we have similar tastes in RPG's; I'll give you 2 of my favorite (difficult *but* fair) PS3 RPG's.
First up is my all-time favorite PS3 RPG (hell - my favorite PS3 *Game*) ever (and yes, I'm aware that it's a 'controversial' pick in that it's a love-it-or-hate-it kind of game)...
**********CROSS-EDGE**********
It's a cross-over RPG w/ playable characters from the series:
Darkstalkers = Morrigan, Lilith, Felicia, Demitri, and Jedah
Atelier = Marie,
Disgaea = Etna & Prinny,
Mana Khemia (2) = Lily, Whim, Raize, & Reicher,
Blazing Souls = Meu & Zelos,
Ar-Tonelico = Shurelia, Miesha, Aurica, Lyner, Ayatane, and Bourd, and
~10 or so, original characters.
While it's not necessary to *have* to have played any of these other games - you'll obviously get more out of the character's behaviors, interactions, costumes/weapons/armor, etc. if you have.
IT IS NOT AN EASY GAME!
It *IS* a very rewarding & satisfying game to play/beat, though once you "get" how everything works (this will take a while).
Also, if going for the "True End"...you will *NEED* to print-out/have at your side a "true-end walkthrough/checklist" - you will *never* attain the true end w/o one...nobody ever would!
It has a *steep* learning-curve, but, I love the game so much (I absolutely *hated* it, btw, my 1st playthrough); that I've platinumed it twice (on 2 different PSN accounts), and have been through the whole thing 3 or 4 times...
...If you ever get/play it, don't hesitate to ask me for help (or, go to the (surprisingly) still active & helpful G*Faq's board for it:)
"It's so easy, that you can plat it one-handed; even" :o
Wow, is this post getting loooong -so- I'll skimp on the description and simply recommend that you look into:
Wizardry: Labyrinth of Lost Souls (in NA, unfortunately), it's download-only from the PSN store.
Just be aware that this is much more of a "dungeon-crawler" RPG than CE is...
Enjoy 8)
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My PS3 games have not been all that hard with the exception of the notoriously difficult Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.
I wouldn't exactly call these games "really hard" as a lot of people have been saying. Rather, they're punishing, but as a whole they're not too tough if you don't rush it... though they're still above and beyond most other modern games in regards to difficulty, I just feel people over-hype the games' difficulty.
That said, most modern games are definitely easier than a lot of older games, if only because modern developers always feel the need to hold your hand and constantly tell you what to do, with the constant tutorial text, objective markers and overall difficulty-destroying game mechanics like cover and regenerating health. It's pretty bad as a whole. There's no exploration (some games kill you if you even think about not following the set path), no experimenting, no learning as you go, just "do what we tell you and enjoy our badly-written contrived storylines and HD graphics!", and it's pretty shallow if you ask me. The first 10 seconds of Super Mario Bros has more challenge than most of the current industry. There are exceptions, but they're very few and very far between.
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I think it's more that gamer expectations have changed - gamers expect to be able to finish any game they purchase these days... and really, why wouldn't they? Gaming is increasingly seen as more adult than it used to be, and adults just don't have the free time that kids do. *I* don't have the time to invest in games like I want to, and pretty much all my free time is spent gaming.
I'd also argue that games are generally better designed these days. I don't mean better designed gameplay, but games (usually) no longer have enemies respawn if you move an inch to the left or expect you to play through 100 levels in a single sitting to complete a game.
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Dark Souls & Demon's Souls are arguably the most difficult games this generation IMO. They require plenty of memory work, trial and error, and exploration. The games absolutely do NOT hold your hand and are very similar in style to some of the more difficult NES/SNES era offerings.
One of my biggest complaints with current gen games is with the lack of difficulty. Personally, I don't enjoy a game unless I feel like I've accomplished something by playing it. Simply seeing an ending doesn't get me there. I've finished very few current gen titles due to the simple fact that I get bored. No challenge = boredom in my book.
Admittedly I am a little tweaked when it comes to playing video games. The tougher the game, the more I get frustrated. The more I get frustrated the more I concentrate. The more I concentrate the better I get. Essentially, if I get pissed off I play better :)
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Admittedly I am a little tweaked when it comes to playing video games. The tougher the game, the more I get frustrated. The more I get frustrated the more I concentrate. The more I concentrate the better I get. Essentially, if I get pissed off I play better :)
This is why my go to genre is shmups. Especially bullet-hell ones. And it's also the reason why I only play until I lose all of my lives and never continue. Sure it takes me forever to see the end of the game, but by the time I get there it provides a great sense of accomplishment. ;D
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I can't think of a modern game I haven't able to beat on normal difficulty (the exception being niche games, for example bullet hell shooters like Ikaruga or Deathsmiles). However, to this day I haven't beaten Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, TMNT or Ghosts N Goblins.
A big difference today is that you can quickly find a walkthrough of nearly every game ever made. If you were stuck on a game in 1986, you had to figure it out yourself or give up.
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A big difference today is that you can quickly find a walkthrough of nearly every game ever made. If you were stuck on a game in 1986, you had to figure it out yourself or give up.
So very, very much THIS!!!
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However, to this day I haven't beaten Castlevania
The biggest secret of Castlevania 1 is Holy Water and enemy memorization. If you can remember where the baddies are and how they move you're golden. The bosses, you just spam holy water on. Of course, keeping the holy water on hand is a challenge, especially if you die and need to relocate it. It doesn't help that some baddies drop sub weapons and if you pick it up you're boned.
It's gotten to the point now, that I have every holy water candle memorized, ha.
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Dark Souls & Demon's Souls are arguably the most difficult games this generation IMO.
I had to give up on Demon's Souls because I wasn't making any progress past a certain point. Dark Souls seems to be slightly less difficult than it's predecessor though. I love both these games--the punishing, hostile environment is really unlike any other game out there.
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However, to this day I haven't beaten Castlevania
The biggest secret of Castlevania 1 is Holy Water and enemy memorization. If you can remember where the baddies are and how they move you're golden. The bosses, you just spam holy water on. Of course, keeping the holy water on hand is a challenge, especially if you die and need to relocate it. It doesn't help that some baddies drop sub weapons and if you pick it up you're boned.
It's gotten to the point now, that I have every holy water candle memorized, ha.
I need to give it another try. I don't think I've played it in at least 5 years. Death is as far as I've made it, and if I remember right Holy Water doesn't really work on him since he flies around.
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I need to give it another try. I don't think I've played it in at least 5 years. Death is as far as I've made it, and if I remember right Holy Water doesn't really work on him since he flies around.
Ya , you need to catch him near the platform that he starts by. If you don't, it's a matter of doing it the hard way.
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I don't know if anyone has played Nightshade for the NES, but that game is frustratingly hard due to the controls. I find the classic games to be a lot harder then todays, like OP i was playing Diddy Kongs quest today and was getting destroyed in world 2.
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I don't know if anyone has played Nightshade for the NES, but that game is frustratingly hard due to the controls. I find the classic games to be a lot harder then todays, like OP i was playing Diddy Kongs quest today and was getting destroyed in world 2.
I haven't played Nightshade, but it looks like a really fascinating game for its time, with a really surprising amount of depth. But what I've seen of the controls seems pretty... hard to handle.
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I don't know if anyone has played Nightshade for the NES, but that game is frustratingly hard due to the controls. I find the classic games to be a lot harder then todays, like OP i was playing Diddy Kongs quest today and was getting destroyed in world 2.
God reminds me of Donkey Kong Country the level on the carts >_> I got so pissed at that level
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It's been mentioned a couple of times and I agree. I think one of the things "killing" the difficulty is checkpoints. A lot of games nowadays auto-save everytime you do anything, like open a door. Alot of old RPGs you could only save in the Inn or a tent and when you go into a dungeon, you're in there until you beat the boss and walk out. That's another thing, a lot of things are done in cutscenes.
I think one of the hardest games I've played is Yggdra Union. This game punishes bad decisions. You can only heal between fights and there's no stores, so you have to use items you found, usually right in the previous map. And the damage sticks, if you level, you're still damaged.
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It's been mentioned a couple of times and I agree. I think one of the things "killing" the difficulty is checkpoints. A lot of games nowadays auto-save everytime you do anything, like open a door. Alot of old RPGs you could only save in the Inn or a tent and when you go into a dungeon, you're in there until you beat the boss and walk out.
I really disagree with checkpoints making games less difficult - the only "skill" involved in an RPG that only lets you save once every few hours is finding the time to play it. An FPS isn't harder if I restart at the beginning of the level when I die it's just giving me more tedious busywork to get through - I'm not a better player just because I can repeat actions I've already done (assuming I have the time in the first place).
I'm actually all for hard games - I love arcade games and shmups - but I don't feel that convenience is a bad thing either :)
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A big difference today is that you can quickly find a walkthrough of nearly every game ever made. If you were stuck on a game in 1986, you had to figure it out yourself or give up.
I think one thing that needs to be added here is... Back in the day there WERE things you had to figure out yourself. Nowadays that's just not true because devs feel they need to hold your hands so much that you'll almost never be in danger of having to think.
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Calling the controls for nightshade "hard to handle" is a bit of an understatement. It is a really good game, and has some funny moments. If you can manage to get to the over world, theres this guy with a huge head fighting this old lady, if you save her you become more popluar.
I don't know if anyone has played Nightshade for the NES, but that game is frustratingly hard due to the controls. I find the classic games to be a lot harder then todays, like OP i was playing Diddy Kongs quest today and was getting destroyed in world 2.
God reminds me of Donkey Kong Country the level on the carts >_> I got so pissed at that level
DEM CARTS
the new donkey kong country for Wii has to have the hardest level with the carts 0_0
DKQ jumping is getting me, in world 3 and it took me almost an hour to get past level 3 -_-
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Calling the controls for nightshade "hard to handle" is a bit of an understatement. It is a really good game, and has some funny moments. If you can manage to get to the over world, theres this guy with a huge head fighting this old lady, if you save her you become more popluar.
I don't know if anyone has played Nightshade for the NES, but that game is frustratingly hard due to the controls. I find the classic games to be a lot harder then todays, like OP i was playing Diddy Kongs quest today and was getting destroyed in world 2.
God reminds me of Donkey Kong Country the level on the carts >_> I got so pissed at that level
DEM CARTS
the new donkey kong country for Wii has to have the hardest level with the carts 0_0
DKQ jumping is getting me, in world 3 and it took me almost an hour to get past level 3 -_-
damn, yeah those cart levels no matter what donkey kong they always get me hard >_>
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in a word, Yes! There was no hand holding or online walkthroughs and we didn't have any trouble with our attention spans. We spent months systematically burning bushes and bombing walls looking for that one dungeon in Legend of Zelda. And when we finally beat the game, there was a sense of accomplishment!
Unlike today where most players if they manage to get stuck last a whopping 2 minutes before they run to the internet to look up the answer. (my nephews) And when you beat a game there's no feeling of wow I finally beat it! its more like eh is that all there is to the game.
And there are exceptions, But I think most modern games are aimed at casual gamers, so they have to be easier.
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What I find humorous is that some of the biggest games this generation are big because of their online multiplayer (competitive and usually difficult to master).
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I think part of that appeal is that you can spend exactly as much time on them as you want - matches usually last a fixed (and short) period of time and while everyone wants to win unless you're in a super-serious clan it doesn't really matter what the end score is to anyone else but you.
I'm basically just rephrasing what I said before: I think people are happy to be challenged, but because of increasing real-world commitments those challenges need to be in short user controlled chunks.
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I say yes!!! i can beat just about any game i've played on gamecube and up!! nes,snes,n64 are much harder for me! you can't save,some games you only get one or two lives.. i mean even kids games back in the day were hard as hell to beat!
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Sometimes I play recent games but mostly I play retro games
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Ninja Gaiden on Xbox and part 2 on 360 make me want to kick puppies! Just as the originals did >:(
none of that sigma nonsense...
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YES! One of the big reasons I switched to retro games is because of the difficulty. Most of my friends at school say that retro games are so easy and I should play real games like Halo. I would like to see the looks on their face if they played something like Wizardry! Of what I have played this is what I would consider to be the hardest and I am slowly making my way though it making my own maps.
You give me hope for our future.
Thank you.
Edit to add : If you are playing Prooving Grounds of the Mad Overlord, Murphy's Ghost is the key to that game. Lots and lots of killing Murphy's Ghost.
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Yeah that is what I have been doing, I kind of stopped playing the game for a while though as I am currently trying to kill my backlog starting with SNES. With some Christmas/Birthday money I will buy the archives for PC and start it up again though.
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Definitely, as mentioned before, this was done on purpose to extend the play time of older games. Because unlike now where 20+ hour games is a normal thing, back then they had to do SOMETHING to make people drop $50 on a new game. SO they made them hard to keep you playing it again and again and again and again and again and again and again AND AGAIN!! (Course some games were just good ;)