VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => Modern Video Games => Topic started by: htimreimer on January 04, 2013, 12:59:18 am
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xbox may not stop you from getting second hand games but it looks like the ps4 will. check the link for more info: http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/report-new-sony-patent-blocks-second-hand-games (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/report-new-sony-patent-blocks-second-hand-games)
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After working in lab settings, I know that companies patent literally everything that they think they can. Whether or not they think it will ever be used. Most employees are told and expected to patent. So, I do not always put stock into this type of stuff.
That being said, I do expect to see more of this in the future. Although I do not know exactly how long it will last. There have been attempts at this stuff to small degrees. I think a lot of new game purchases come from people selling their recently purchased games. People play games, beat them, and sell them to fund more games. This creates a fake and larger money source for people who buy new games. I honestly don't see more people buying new games. The most likely thing that would happen is that game companies will forcibly create a steam or app store "race to the bottom" in price structure to compete for people's monthly game budgets.
If you can't trade you are pickier and more frugal with money. Personally, I think the companies will only be hurting themselves. I would expect a few companies to try this (EA) and others will sit back and learn from their mistakes. But I could be overly optimistic.
I expect things to change a lot after this next generation of consoles. By that time, I will be old enough and set in my ways enough to not care for this new-fangled technology and just sit on my couch listening to Grunge music while playing my Genesis. I did it in 1991 and I'm doing it in 2013. So, I'm fine with any changes made. But seriously, there is enough stuff already released to keep me busy. It would just make my collecting easier.
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I agree with this not being concrete evidence of this being implemented in the PS4. We also saw patents by Sega for a new console based off of their Ring-Edge arcade hardware a couple years back. This console never saw the light of day. Yet it got a handful of Sega fans very hopeful and vocal in the online gaming community for a short time.
So even though a patent is filed, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen. It's just a way for companies to prevent other companies from getting the jump on them.
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the reason i can see this in the ps4 is because sony is having problems (mostly financial problems) with the console market and this would help there problems but i agree that this is not being concrete evidence
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Nail in the coffin if true...
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Sony announcing that patent sent a big backlash already. If they have their fingers on the pulse they KNOW that it's a bad idea. The biggest effect is tons of people saying they'll not be buying Sony's next console.
Whether or not this actually makes it to the PS4 is irrelevant, the fact that they're considering it is a big deterrent to many people. What most people are (probably rightfully) thinking... they could not implement it at first to lure people who know it's a dumb idea, and then start using the DRM a year or 2 down the line.
The game industry shouldn't be treating the customers like crap, and if they don't learn that soon it will blow up in their face.
There's one pretty simple way to counter whatever effect the used game market has on them: price games properly. But that's not happening with the constantly-increasing cost of game development. And they also need to realize that... well, the used game market isn't an inherently bad thing for them.
We'll see what the future holds, but if Sony actually do this... they're dead.
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Nail in the coffin if true...
Precisely.
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If they do implement this, it just proves that they WANT to fail in the console market. Nintendo has already set the precedent in the new generation by allowing preowned games to be played.
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Actually, thinking about it... I think they're already using a form of that DRM. Specifically with cross-buy games. Cross-buy is a feature on the game disc that let's you connect the PSN and get a free download of the Vita version of the game, but it only works once per disc, as the disc gets registered on their systems and it detects if you try getting the download on another PS3 and/or PSN account.
In that particular use it makes sense actually, but it also shows that they are using this tech already, maybe here as testing before they implement it fully in their next console.
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Actually, thinking about it... I think they're already using a form of that DRM. Specifically with cross-buy games. Cross-buy is a feature on the game disc that let's you connect the PSN and get a free download of the Vita version of the game, but it only works once per disc, as the disc gets registered on their systems and it detects if you try getting the download on another PS3 and/or PSN account.
In that particular use it makes sense actually, but it also shows that they are using this tech already, maybe here as testing before they implement it fully in their next console.
Or just patenting it for this reason. That would make sense and seems fair to me.
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I know about the patent-filing and I also know (less than) Sin2beta does (but, enough to know that he's right:)
I'm not worried.
I don't believe (and won't believe it until I see it happen/hear it from Sony) that they'll be making it impossible to play any used games on their next console...it would be suicide for them.
If MS *doesn't* do the same...Sony's lost before the console releases,
If MS *does* do the same...then, both MS & Sony are pretty much both giving the "gen" away to Nintendo, by default.
TL;DR = Patent filed /=/ feature concretely implemented :P
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If MS *does* do the same...then, both MS & Sony are pretty much both giving the "gen" away to Nintendo, by default.
This will mark a sad day in gaming history. I'm sorry, but Nintendo has effectively lost my business when it comes to home consoles. There's close to nothing that will get me to drive to a store and buy a new WiiU. I might pick one up when the used market picks up, but that will likely not be for at least a year or so. I just don't get the draw, at all.
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If MS *does* do the same...then, both MS & Sony are pretty much both giving the "gen" away to Nintendo, by default.
This will mark a sad day in gaming history. I'm sorry, but Nintendo has effectively lost my business when it comes to home consoles. There's close to nothing that will get me to drive to a store and buy a new WiiU. I might pick one up when the used market picks up, but that will likely not be for at least a year or so. I just don't get the draw, at all.
*ABSOLUTELY* Agree - QFT!
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I tend to agree. A lot of people simply do not buy new items whether it be cars, furniture, appliances, houses, games, etc. It does not make sense from my standpoint. And from a business standpoint, it does not make sense to try to implement (if that is their end result) to make second hand games not usable. It pushes away a large percentage of the community from purchasing and would be a bigger loss of any sort of profit as opposed to the way game systems are done now.
As a side note since its mentioned here, I never knew what TL;DR was til I saw it on here and had to look it up ... I cant believe all the silly abbreviations in the world now.
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If MS *does* do the same...then, both MS & Sony are pretty much both giving the "gen" away to Nintendo, by default.
This will mark a sad day in gaming history. I'm sorry, but Nintendo has effectively lost my business when it comes to home consoles. There's close to nothing that will get me to drive to a store and buy a new WiiU. I might pick one up when the used market picks up, but that will likely not be for at least a year or so. I just don't get the draw, at all.
While I dont necessarily say that Nintendo has lost my support in the console world, I will agree that they have nothing on the Wii U right now other than nifty features ... but that alone is not going to get me to buy one. Since the release of the playstation, they have been my first console purchase every generation. If this option is pushed through, it will move Sony from the front of the line for sure.
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By that time, I will be old enough and set in my ways enough to not care for this new-fangled technology and just sit on my couch listening to Grunge music while playing my Genesis. I did it in 1991 and I'm doing it in 2013. So, I'm fine with any changes made. But seriously, there is enough stuff already released to keep me busy. It would just make my collecting easier.
I've been thinking the same since I first heard about the "digital only" and "second-hand protection" things. I've got plenty of games to keep me busy for years, and it'll just be easier to acquire all those that I want if they stop making games that I want (or the way I want). :P You summarized my thoughts perfectly!
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As a side note since its mentioned here, I never knew what TL;DR was til I saw it on here and had to look it up ... I cant believe all the silly abbreviations in the world now.
Haha :P
Me too - I had to look-up "smh" the other day when Desocietas used it somewhere, too :-\
Since the release of the playstation, they have been my first console purchase every generation. If this option is pushed through, it will move Sony from the front of the line for sure.
I'm w/ you here, too...word for word - I just keep telling myself that "Sony can't really be *THAT* stupid"...but; as I'm telling myself this - I really do have to wonder :'(
I've been thinking the same since I first heard about the "digital only" and "second-hand protection" things. I've got plenty of games to keep me busy for years, and it'll just be easier to acquire all those that I want if they stop making games that I want (or the way I want). :P You summarized my thoughts perfectly!
He he :)
Did a fine summarization for me, as well!
Stop making *Physical* games for your consoles = I'll stop buying both your consoles -and- the games that will be on it.
I also have *MORE* THAN a large enough backlog to never *need* to buy another game...and if I did...I'd just continue collecting physical games for the platforms that I already own ;)
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I loved the PS2, but ended up hating Sony by the start of the PS3 era. Mostly due to having gone through 3 original PS2s over the course of it's life, plus having the HDD paired with the 1st PS2 it was mounted into and being non-transferable on the fly. I haven't agreed with 90% of their choices this gen and hate their network (which seems to take forever to do updates or download things). Not to mention being forced to install games in order to continue playing them usually breaking the flow of the game, MGS4 is notorious for that. If something like this were true, I'm pretty positive that I'll never touch another Sony gaming console ever. :P
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If this option is pushed through, it will move Sony from the front of the line for sure.
Actually, this can't really push them back any further (except maybe off a cliff). The PS3 is still the least sold console in the US in it's respected generation.
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If this option is pushed through, it will move Sony from the front of the line for sure.
Actually, this can't really push them back any further (except maybe off a cliff). The PS3 is still the least sold console in the US in it's respected generation.
Heh I mean from the front of my line! It would never put them behind a Microsoft system however.
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If this option is pushed through, it will move Sony from the front of the line for sure.
Actually, this can't really push them back any further (except maybe off a cliff). The PS3 is still the least sold console in the US in it's respected generation.
Heh I mean from the front of my line! It would never put them behind a Microsoft system however.
Meh, I've been playing the PS3 quite a bit over the past few weeks and I do REALLY prefer the dashboard (or whatever it's called) compared to the 360s. I also like the fact that the games come on a Bluray and, believe it or not, that the games automatically save data to the HDD before you start playing it. Sure, it takes some time, but my load times in FO:NV are MUCH improved over the 360 version with the full game installed. The PS3 is simply a more powerful machine.
HOWEVER, I have no issue with the 360 whatsoever. It's still a great console and I prefer the controller over the PS3s by quite a bit. It's got a nice weight distribution and I find the L3 and R3 buttons on the PS3 controller waaaay too touchy.
When it comes down to it, both consoles have their pros and cons and neither of them have enough exclusives to make a real "this console has better games" argument. Basically, I feel that they are equal. Then again, I've never had either console die on me. Come to think of it, I've never had any console die on me.
Honestly, the PS4 and new XBOX will likely be so freaking close in performance and releases that it will matter even less which one you choose.
As far as your comment is concerned....you're just a fanboy....which you already know. If Sony really did make it impossible to play used games on the PS4 and MS didn't? You'd jump ship in a heartbeat.
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Actually, I do have to say that if everything goes with the no second hand games. I figure digital downloads will become the main way to go.
Will this be an opening for the steambox?
Basically, X-Box sales are insane because they are not sales at all. Games stay at 60 USD for seemingly forever. I don't know how PSN is. However, Steam sales are insane in that you gan get about 100 games without realizing it. They have massively cheap sales. In all honesty, I do not mind digital too much if it goes that way. ALthough, the bulk of my buying will probably still be retro physical releases.
All in all, if second hand games are prohibited, I'd probably buy a steam box. Well, I would just use steam on my computer, but you get my point.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
If games go all digital, I'll be buying retro games exclusively.
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In all honesty, I'd probably go that route as well. As much as I do sometimes like the idea of digital. I look at my steam library and I have 5 games total. I love my vvvvvv but I just can't get motivated to buy digital it seems. I've gone all digital in music and movies. But I could not tell you the last movie or album I purchased.
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Sony are in a really tough spot right now. The PS3 didn't do so well because of the way they acted when they decided to take away some features on the PS3. They defied hackers and even dared them to try to hack them, it cost them Millions of dollars and a lot of bad advertising. Several of their websites were hacked as well and the hacking community basically targeted Sony for being so arrogant.
If the PS4 comes out with such technology, the fans aren't gonna be happy. The community will ultimately try to hack the PS4 in order to make used games work. It would be a PR mess and the final straw for Sony.
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Sony are in a really tough spot right now. The PS3 didn't do so well because of the way they acted when they decided to take away some features on the PS3. They defied hackers and even dared them to try to hack them, it cost them Millions of dollars and a lot of bad advertising. Several of their websites were hacked as well and the hacking community basically targeted Sony for being so arrogant.
thats why can see them using this technology,they lost a lot of money and the removal second hand games would help them get that money back and we have seen time and time again they dont care for there fans with them just leaving account information txt files and the removal of other os
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Sony are in a really tough spot right now. The PS3 didn't do so well because of the way they acted when they decided to take away some features on the PS3. They defied hackers and even dared them to try to hack them, it cost them Millions of dollars and a lot of bad advertising. Several of their websites were hacked as well and the hacking community basically targeted Sony for being so arrogant.
thats why can see them using this technology,they lost a lot of money and the removal second hand games would help them get that money back and we have seen time and time again they dont care for there fans with them just leaving account information txt files and the removal of other os
Nope. Sony would effectively be cutting their own throats with this move. They lost so much before simply because they promised certain features, then took them away. Then had the audacity to throw that back in the consumers face. If they implement the used game restriction, Sony would lose vastly more money from unsold consoles just sitting on store shelves. This would literally be Sony's death knell in the console market.
As long as the media stays physical I really don't see the used market going anywhere. That is why they are pushing digital so much. Which depending on how things go. That may not even be the case as speculation is abound with the sales of used digital content.
No one knows what the future holds.
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Sony are in a really tough spot right now. The PS3 didn't do so well because of the way they acted when they decided to take away some features on the PS3. They defied hackers and even dared them to try to hack them, it cost them Millions of dollars and a lot of bad advertising. Several of their websites were hacked as well and the hacking community basically targeted Sony for being so arrogant.
thats why can see them using this technology,they lost a lot of money and the removal second hand games would help them get that money back and we have seen time and time again they dont care for there fans with them just leaving account information txt files and the removal of other os
Nope. Sony would effectively be cutting their own throats with this move. They lost so much before simply because they promised certain features, then took them away. Then had the audacity to throw that back in the consumers face. If they implement the used game restriction, Sony would lose vastly more money from unsold consoles just sitting on store shelves. This would literally be Sony's death knell in the console market.
As long as the media stays physical I really don't see the used market going anywhere. That is why they are pushing digital so much. Which depending on how things go. That may not even be the case as speculation is abound with the sales of used digital content.
No one knows what the future holds.
i dont think this would a day one thing but instead update for the ps4 after they
sold enough consoles
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You have to remember that Sony usually loses money on console sales and then they make money on game sales and accessories. If Sony does something like this and enough people are upset about it, the PS4 sales may not be very good at all. If no ones buying their systems, no one will be buying their games and then they will lose more money because they will have a bunch of PS4 sitting on shelves. Unsold inventory is more expensive to keep than selling it at a loss.
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In all honesty, I'd probably go that route as well. As much as I do sometimes like the idea of digital. I look at my steam library and I have 5 games total. I love my vvvvvv but I just can't get motivated to buy digital it seems. I've gone all digital in music and movies. But I could not tell you the last movie or album I purchased.
I have many games on steam, but I don't consider them part of my collection. I know I listed them in my collection here, but I did it just because I could, I guess. I don't even know :P But I don't count any of my PC games, digital or retail, in my own collection count.
Anyway, I don't know many (if any) collectors who prefer digital games. I guess it's part of the fun of collecting, to be able to hunt the games, and also to be able to look at all that hard work on display. I know I love it.
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Sony are in a really tough spot right now. The PS3 didn't do so well because of the way they acted when they decided to take away some features on the PS3. They defied hackers and even dared them to try to hack them, it cost them Millions of dollars and a lot of bad advertising. Several of their websites were hacked as well and the hacking community basically targeted Sony for being so arrogant.
thats why can see them using this technology,they lost a lot of money and the removal second hand games would help them get that money back and we have seen time and time again they dont care for there fans with them just leaving account information txt files and the removal of other os
Nope. Sony would effectively be cutting their own throats with this move. They lost so much before simply because they promised certain features, then took them away. Then had the audacity to throw that back in the consumers face. If they implement the used game restriction, Sony would lose vastly more money from unsold consoles just sitting on store shelves. This would literally be Sony's death knell in the console market.
As long as the media stays physical I really don't see the used market going anywhere. That is why they are pushing digital so much. Which depending on how things go. That may not even be the case as speculation is abound with the sales of used digital content.
No one knows what the future holds.
i dont think this would a day one thing but instead update for the ps4 after they
sold enough consoles
Can't agree with you there either. The article states that it uses a contact-less tag in the games to record the unique ID of the console and the games disc. If the numbers don't mach during a boot check then you're up a creek. All without a network connection. No need for an system update, the problem won't be attached to the hardware but the software.
It's a very big if, that this gets implemented. I would say not in this coming generation at all, the next maybe, if it goes all digital used games sales are definite no.
We are all grateful you brought this up because it shows us the direction that the companies are going and the steps they are willing to take to screw everyone. Though, that being said. Always question every article you read. Remember these things are written to instill a sense of dread, to get the rumor mill working to generate hits and revenue. This is deceptive pseudo journalism at it's finest.
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so... what happens if one of my ID's gets corrupted for one reason or another will i be up shit creek without a paddle
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In the event of that or a hardware malfunction. That looks to be the case going on the information (what little of) provided. :-\
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Sony are in a really tough spot right now. The PS3 didn't do so well because of the way they acted when they decided to take away some features on the PS3. They defied hackers and even dared them to try to hack them, it cost them Millions of dollars and a lot of bad advertising. Several of their websites were hacked as well and the hacking community basically targeted Sony for being so arrogant.
thats why can see them using this technology,they lost a lot of money and the removal second hand games would help them get that money back and we have seen time and time again they dont care for there fans with them just leaving account information txt files and the removal of other os
Nope. Sony would effectively be cutting their own throats with this move. They lost so much before simply because they promised certain features, then took them away. Then had the audacity to throw that back in the consumers face. If they implement the used game restriction, Sony would lose vastly more money from unsold consoles just sitting on store shelves. This would literally be Sony's death knell in the console market.
As long as the media stays physical I really don't see the used market going anywhere. That is why they are pushing digital so much. Which depending on how things go. That may not even be the case as speculation is abound with the sales of used digital content.
No one knows what the future holds.
i dont think this would a day one thing but instead update for the ps4 after they
sold enough consoles
Can't agree with you there either. The article states that it uses a contact-less tag in the games to record the unique ID of the console and the games disc. If the numbers don't mach during a boot check then you're up a creek. All without a network connection. No need for an system update, the problem won't be attached to the hardware but the software.
It's a very big if, that this gets implemented. I would say not in this coming generation at all, the next maybe, if it goes all digital used games sales are definite no.
We are all grateful you brought this up because it shows us the direction that the companies are going and the steps they are willing to take to screw everyone. Though, that being said. Always question every article you read. Remember these things are written to instill a sense of dread, to get the rumor mill working to generate hits and revenue. This is deceptive pseudo journalism at it's finest.
Hate to say it, but you're right...IT'S ALL ABOUT TEH CLICKS :'(