General and Gaming => General => Topic started by: scott on January 16, 2013, 03:38:07 pm
Title: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on January 16, 2013, 03:38:07 pm
I was doing some reading on Pandora's Tower and a few places were saying things like "it's too niche to be localized" and such. Honestly, is there really that big of a problem with niche games? I mean without niche games, we are stuck with the same old stuff over and over. And fans of said niches feel like gaming has left them behind.
I know that's how I feel with SHMUPs. They were a staple of arcade gaming and had their place in home gaming, but now it's hard to find anything that's released here for the genre. A lot of us have been left with importing, and then you can only import region free games, unless you want to go through the hassle of buying a second system or modding an exisiting one.
So really, is being a niche game really a problem?
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: desocietas on January 16, 2013, 03:45:04 pm
What makes that particular game "niche"? FYI, I haven't yet looked at that link you posted up re: Pandora's Tower ;)
Definitely nothing wrong with niche, but sometimes I get confused over what they mean by niche. Is it because it's quirky somehow (ex. Contact) or heavily layered in terms of gameplay that it might not be very accessible (ex. The World Ends With You)?
Or is it a genre thing? Like how some RPGs are almost solely first-person dungeon crawlers thus not being "right" for all RPG fans.
If anything, I think the move towards digital titles (as much as I hate it sometimes) opens up some opportunities (especially for more "independent" developers) for some games that wouldn't work on a mainstream level.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: disgaeniac on January 16, 2013, 03:52:13 pm
I'm prolly the wrong one to ask/give an opinion on "niche" games...
...*Because*...
The word "niche" (to me, at least:) is more of a 'pro' IMHO than it is a 'con' for most games 8)
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: darko on January 16, 2013, 03:52:47 pm
Random SHUMP plug --------> BioMetal on the SNES!!!!!
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: soera on January 16, 2013, 03:55:44 pm
I dont think its a problem for the people who actually play those games ... but moreso for the people who make/sell the games. If the niche market for a certain game is pretty small in the area they are releasing it for, the sales are horrid. When that happens, the chance that the same company is going to release another game along the same lines is pretty much slim-to-none.
Its one of the arguements of the Sqenix has delayed on bringing DQX here. They simply dont think its going to reach the crowd to make it worth it for them as it is in Japan. The niche market is good if the crowd is there. FPS for example. Thats a niche that has a huge following.
Shmups are probably just victim of the companies that make them have moved on to bigger and better sellers.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: sin2beta on January 16, 2013, 09:52:32 pm
Second wat Soera wrote.
You have some publishers that will chance and specialize in niche games. These releases will be done in very limited runs due to not wasting money on adverts, left over stock, etc. This is why ATLUS games can be hard to find. However, ATLUS seems to be getting out of niche status a bit.
Sega does extremely limited runs of DS games. I was aware of Infinite Space. I wanted Infinite Space. I looked for Infinite Space when it came out. I still had a heck of a time tracking it down.
A lot of niche titles also get imported which is a reason they are not brought over. The XBOX 360 is a fantastic shmup console. Most are never localized but almost all of them are made region free. This is a niche genre that most publishers stay away from because fans know how to import and there is little difference in the releases if it is localized.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: kimimi on January 17, 2013, 12:57:26 am
With niche games you're basically hoping that a slice of a slice of gamers will buy your game and when something has a significant amount of dialogue to translate publishers would have to put a lot of time and money into a project that might not sell.
It's not that companies don't want to bring these titles over, just that often the risk (in terms of money spent vs. profit generated) is too high.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: jcalder8 on January 17, 2013, 02:03:04 am
I agree with what others have said, it's the cost to the company that is the problem. This is one of, if not the only, thing that I am hoping changes with digital releases. Smaller, niche games will be easier to get world wide releases since you won't have to pay for packaging or manuals.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: disgaeniac on January 25, 2013, 11:26:41 am
For what it's worth...~90% of my personal faves would be called "niche" by many :P
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 10:42:41 am
In my experience, the market for niche games is pretty shaky territory whether you're a publisher or player. On the industry side, localization companies like XSEED, Atlus, Aksys, NIS, etc. basically bet the farm on every game they produce, and in most cases, they're probably lucky just to break even, apart from those oddities that shatter sales expectations like Catherine.
For players, it's a constant scramble to prioritize games, get what you can afford before it goes out of print (due to low print runs, limited distribution, etc.) and the prices skyrocket. Case in point: I desperately want a copy of Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets, but wasn't able to pick it up when it was still available. Now that it's relavitely tough to find in most import shops, I'm faced with trying to track down a copy for as much as $120 or more... which is more money diverted away from anything new coming out.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 01, 2013, 05:37:17 pm
Case in point: I desperately want a copy of Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets, but wasn't able to pick it up when it was still available. Now that it's relavitely tough to find in most import shops, I'm faced with trying to track down a copy for as much as $120 or more... which is more money diverted away from anything new coming out.
Same here. I found out about that game way too late. And now it's ridiculously priced! I've resigned to never being able to pick it up, mainly because I can't see myself paying $120+ for it anytime soon.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: jobocan on February 01, 2013, 07:11:09 pm
Case in point: I desperately want a copy of Muchi Muchi Pork/Pink Sweets, but wasn't able to pick it up when it was still available. Now that it's relavitely tough to find in most import shops, I'm faced with trying to track down a copy for as much as $120 or more... which is more money diverted away from anything new coming out.
Well if you don't mind the "best of" version: http://www.play-asia.com/Muchi_Muchi_Pork_Pink_Sweets_Cave_Best_Version/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-5u8b.html
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 07:31:30 pm
Well if you don't mind the "best of" version: http://www.play-asia.com/Muchi_Muchi_Pork_Pink_Sweets_Cave_Best_Version/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-5u8b.html
I definitely do not mind when it comes to imports. Totally hadn't noticed this had been announced, and it's still region free! I know what I'm pre-ordering when I get home ;) Mucho thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: jobocan on February 01, 2013, 07:32:17 pm
Well if you don't mind the "best of" version: http://www.play-asia.com/Muchi_Muchi_Pork_Pink_Sweets_Cave_Best_Version/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-5u8b.html
I definitely do not mind when it comes to imports. Totally hadn't noticed this had been announced, and it's still region free! I know what I'm pre-ordering when I get home ;) Mucho thanks for pointing it out.
No problem, I saw you mention the game and then I remembered that I had it pre-ordered so... yeah :P
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 01, 2013, 07:37:16 pm
Omg omg. I'm pre ordering!
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 07:58:13 pm
It's like a freaky Cave love connection around here :p
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 01, 2013, 08:01:58 pm
It's like a freaky Cave love connection around here :p
You know it. I love Cave shooters, ha.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: jobocan on February 01, 2013, 08:05:37 pm
Yeah, they make fun crazy games. I still need to get some of their 360 games. Mushihimesama Futari, Espgaluda II and.... Deathsmiles II isn't region-free, is it?
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 01, 2013, 08:08:07 pm
Deathsmiles II is locked I think. But its a digital only game on NA XBLA... so...
I still a few of the 360 shmups too...
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 08:26:38 pm
Yeah, they make fun crazy games. I still need to get some of their 360 games. Mushihimesama Futari, Espgaluda II and.... Deathsmiles II isn't region-free, is it?
So, so worth it. Both Mushihimesama Futari Ver 1.5 and Espgaluda II received region-free Platinum Collection releases too, so it was pretty cheap to score both. Espgaluda II is out of stock on Play-Asia, but NCSX still has it for a little more than PA was charging - http://www.shopncsx.com/espgaludaiiblacklabelregularedition-2.aspx Mushihimesama Futari - http://www.play-asia.com/Mushihimesama_Futari_Ver_1.5_Platinum_Collection/paOS-13-71-br-49-en-70-3yu5.html
Get 'em while you still can! :)
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: soera on February 01, 2013, 08:36:17 pm
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 08:39:16 pm
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
There are shooters like R-Type and Gradius, and then there is danmaku :)
I was never a big fan of shoot 'em ups until I played stuff like DoDonPachi, Progear no Arashi, and Armed Police Batrider on MAME. Totally blew my mind, and I've been obsessed ever since. Gigantic laser shots, hundreds of bullets on screen, frantic timing... it's just incredible stuff.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: sin2beta on February 01, 2013, 08:39:54 pm
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
Yes you are. Shooters are amazing. Lords of Thunder!!
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: desocietas on February 01, 2013, 09:09:14 pm
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
Hey, I'm in the same boat! Too much stuff going around on the screen - I can't focus on anything when I play those!
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 01, 2013, 09:11:01 pm
PERFECT CHERRY BLOSSOM!
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: turf on February 01, 2013, 09:18:13 pm
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
We're the silent majority. :) I liked Life Force and Gradius. It was a passing thing though. It was like an arcade game should be (to make money). Fun for a minute and then munch your quarters.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: insektmute on February 01, 2013, 09:25:30 pm
Oh man, who can possibly resist Touhou shooters?! I think Imperishable Night might be my favorite, though. So freaking insane.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: soera on February 01, 2013, 10:13:27 pm
Okay I just watched that video .... how the hell does anyone do that? That type of game would make me want to stab kitties with rusty sporks just to relieve the frustration. I dont see how that person didnt die 1000000 times over.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: sin2beta on February 01, 2013, 10:31:19 pm
Okay I just watched that video .... how the hell does anyone do that? That type of game would make me want to stab kitties with rusty sporks just to relieve the frustration. I dont see how that person didnt die 1000000 times over.
The bullet hell subgenre almost play like rhythm games if you ask me. That would be my explanation. I don't know if that makes sense or if I am alone in that feeling though.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: kimimi on February 01, 2013, 11:32:57 pm
It depends on the game; I think shmups like Ikaruga and DoDonPachi have very defined "correct" paths where deviation from a particular routine will result in death or a bad score, but most give you a fair bit of leeway to play as you please.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: ko1ru on February 02, 2013, 12:44:14 am
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
We're the silent majority. :)
Count me in too. I never got into schmups at all.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: brettybluevein on February 02, 2013, 03:14:19 am
Heh am I the oddball around here so simply doesnt get into shooters? I can stomach R-Type for a little while cause I think the piece that adds to the ship is neat ... but most other shooters I just cant play. Gradius and Life Force never really appealed to me. Most of the games you guys are talking about I cant even understand the name!
Yes you are. Shooters are amazing. Lords of Thunder!!
Lords of Thunder is one of my favorite shooters ever! I've 1CC it like 6 times and it never gets boring.
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 02, 2013, 09:54:43 am
Oh man, who can possibly resist Touhou shooters?! I think Imperishable Night might be my favorite, though. So freaking insane.
Ya man. I have most of them on my PC at home. I was tempted to buy up the materials and make myself an arcade stick to play them with. But I know if I started buying parts, I'd just end up building another cab...
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: jobocan on February 02, 2013, 02:23:26 pm
Oh man, who can possibly resist Touhou shooters?! I think Imperishable Night might be my favorite, though. So freaking insane.
Ya man. I have most of them on my PC at home. I was tempted to buy up the materials and make myself an arcade stick to play them with. But I know if I started buying parts, I'd just end up building another cab...
A custom Touhou cab would be pretty awesome, with cool sideart and stuff :P
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 02, 2013, 02:26:09 pm
Ya. Put it in line w/ the sweet Steel Battalion cockpit cab I have in my head. (Which will never be built) haha
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: jobocan on February 02, 2013, 02:54:26 pm
I assume that plan for a Steel Battalion cab is Mech-shaped? :P
Title: Re: Too Niche?
Post by: scott on February 02, 2013, 03:10:56 pm
Ha no. It'd look like a enclosed racing cab. But with the interior all decked out to look like a mech cockpit. Switches and all in logical locations.