General and Gaming => Modern Video Games => Topic started by: sin2beta on February 01, 2013, 07:53:30 pm
Title: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 01, 2013, 07:53:30 pm
Sony seems to be teasing a big event for February 20th. It seems like an odd time to announce a console. But the trailer does look like it more than anything (in the fact that it mentions nothing but playstation) (source: Real Giant Bomb). I recently heard rumors that Microsoft is possibly going to announce before E3 as well. What do you think?
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: jobocan on February 01, 2013, 08:01:06 pm
I hope they both announce before E3, because I feel they've been too calm about their 8th gen consoles so far.
It's basically confirmed that the PS4/Orbis/whatever will be announced on the 20th and I just want to see what they'll do. It kinda feels like a do-or-die situation for Sony and I really hope they go all-out and, for once, make nothing but good decisions and actually properly support a console at launch.
... I care less about the 720/Durango/whatever, I kinda feel it'll go more the "ad-filled media center with even more overpriced online" thing more than the 360, all powered by the Kinect and Windows Tablets... But I wouldn't mind being wrong :P
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: ko1ru on February 02, 2013, 12:01:19 am
... I care less about the 720/Durango/whatever, I kinda feel it'll go more the "ad-filled media center with even more overpriced online" thing more than the 360, all powered by the Kinect and Windows Tablets...
This - plus an obvious leaning toward digital titles and the new "Smart Glass" feature - is exactly why I won't be buying the next gen Xbox console. Nothing Microsoft could possibly announce (media and tech-wise) could convince me otherwise. Perhaps I sound old and crotchety, but I'll stick with what I have, thank you.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 02, 2013, 12:31:00 am
Personally. I'm really pretty meh over the next gen of gaming. Honestly, I'm am pretty close to cancelling my billing on Xbox Live too. I never game on it, rarely download games anymore, and use my PS3 or Wii for Netflix anyway.
But at this point not a whole lot will get me hyped for either system. Hell the only reason I'm leaning toward the Wii U atm, is thanks to this mysterious Monolith title.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 02, 2013, 12:49:12 am
I'm really excited for the Microsoft announcement. If nothing else, because I am really curious about what direction they are going. Is it really going to be very media centric? That's what all the talk is. However, we don't actually know anything. I am very excited to know.
Will I buy it at launch? Probably not. They would have to REALLY wow me with a fantastic launch game. Instead, I plan to buy a Saturn during the nextgen launch weekend. Just deciding whether to go North America or Japan on the console.
But despite not buying consoles at launch, I am very excited to see the announcements. I'm also curious to know how far Microsoft will stray from gaming. To be honest, I owned a wii until about a year ago. That is when I bought my 360. Since then, I have never felt pressured to buy a kinect. I have not had difficulty navigating to the XBLA store without kinect. I have no need to get smart glass (not much really utilizes this anyways). And when I boot my system, the game is the first thing the system highlights. There is truth to the fears that people have about the Xbox. However, I feel there is more doom and gloom talk in consumers than is really there with the Xbox. I think the XBox will still be gaming first by a lot. I have been wrong about a lot of things though.
EDIT: What I'm really excited for is Sega's upcoming surprise announcement that they will release the Dreamcast 2 with Shenmue 3 as a launch title. On top of that bringing back support of the game gear.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on February 02, 2013, 01:53:34 am
sony: i'm not sure what there doing with the ps4 or with the gaming industry in general mainly because i have see so many reports about motion control/multimedia and them not doing so good in the electronics business
microsoft: by the look of things the next xbox is gonna be more gimmicky and family oriented then the wii and wii u with the kinect 2.0/smartglass and even more multimedia features also there is a chance that is will be more expensive and i hope we're wrong about this because i'm sure how the xbox fans will react with this news like this
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 02, 2013, 05:35:47 pm
I'm... skeptical about the next-gen. There have been a lot of great games for PS3, 360, and Wii, but on the same token, there's also been a ridiculous amount of effort put into gimmicky controller nonsense, stupid DRM schemes, microtransactions, on-disc DLC, and unnecessary, half-assed MP features. As far as I can tell, publishers and console manufacturers are perfectly content to keep moving things in that direction, unfortunately.
Put simply, my money is going to go to whichever company seems to be the least interested in dicking me over, with all three taking steps to correct past mistakes. Microsoft won't get a pass from me if their hardware is built like crap for the first half of its lifespan, and they spend the other half adding on features that should've been in place from the beginning. Sony won't get a pass if they don't get a better handle on online functionality and launch with a prohibitively expensive price. Nintendo won't get a pass if... well, the Wii U has already failed to measure up to any of my expectations, but that's another topic.
The ridiculous thing is, none of this should be all that hard. A console really doesn't need to offer much more than solid build quality, a comfortable controller that's adaptable to a wide variety of genres, stable, fast online functionality, and a convenient way to charge controllers and expand storage options. It's not rocket surgery! For all the obsession with being "innovative" these days, the answer is the same as it's always been: we want GAMES. Period.
Instead, we get a mountain of bullshit like Smart Glass. If that's how things are going to go across the board, I suspect I'll be sinking a lot of money into dead consoles the next year or two :)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 02, 2013, 05:50:31 pm
I was in college and not too into gaming during the last console releases in 2005. Then I was a kid before that. So, I may not remember things appropriately. But is this the most unanticipated looked down upon console release coming up. After about 8 years, I find that strange, but can kind of understand.
On a possibly related note, it also seems to be the most rumor filled.
Do you think attitudes will change a lot once solid information is actually out?
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: soera on February 02, 2013, 05:59:46 pm
Im not all that interested in 8th gen yet. The WiiU is neat but nothing on it so far is much of a selling point for me. Xbox is just ugh. The new playstation I will eventually buy Im sure but I cant imagine what they could add to make it blow away the PS3 atm. Once its out, stable with a decent line up (the playstation's line up has never failed) Ill get one.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: brettybluevein on February 02, 2013, 06:28:24 pm
I'm really excited for the Microsoft announcement. If nothing else, because I am really curious about what direction they are going. Is it really going to be very media centric? That's what all the talk is. However, we don't actually know anything. I am very excited to know.
Will I buy it at launch? Probably not. They would have to REALLY wow me with a fantastic launch game. Instead, I plan to buy a Saturn during the nextgen launch weekend. Just deciding whether to go North America or Japan on the console.
But despite not buying consoles at launch, I am very excited to see the announcements. I'm also curious to know how far Microsoft will stray from gaming. To be honest, I owned a wii until about a year ago. That is when I bought my 360. Since then, I have never felt pressured to buy a kinect. I have not had difficulty navigating to the XBLA store without kinect. I have no need to get smart glass (not much really utilizes this anyways). And when I boot my system, the game is the first thing the system highlights. There is truth to the fears that people have about the Xbox. However, I feel there is more doom and gloom talk in consumers than is really there with the Xbox. I think the XBox will still be gaming first by a lot. I have been wrong about a lot of things though.
EDIT: What I'm really excited for is Sega's upcoming surprise announcement that they will release the Dreamcast 2 with Shenmue 3 as a launch title. On top of that bringing back support of the game gear.
I too am patiently awaiting Sega's next console announcement. I would buy that on blind faith with a $499 price tag.
As far and the next PS goes, I'm sure it'll be the same shit different day from Sony. They lost their interesting exclusives years ago, and they don't have Halo. I will always have the newest Microsoft and Nintendo systems. And again...SEGA if they ever rejoin the market ;)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: darko on February 02, 2013, 07:13:53 pm
What is all this talk of a new Sega system? Does someone have a link to some info? I'm obviously out of the Sega loop.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: brettybluevein on February 02, 2013, 07:18:56 pm
Here is a 10 game launch lineup from the article "All I Want For Christmas Is A Dreamcast 2" http://sega-addicts.murnaumusic.com/?p=24403
In short, it is all hopes and dreams... I have basically accepted Xbox as the SEGA replacement. It is a familiar controller to the dreamcast. It got Shenmue, Panzer Dragoon, JSR, Outrun, etc. Plus, both companies seem to have a love for oversized black hardware (Dreamcast excluded).
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: burningdoom on February 02, 2013, 07:50:23 pm
... If that's how things are going to go across the board, I suspect I'll be sinking a lot of money into dead consoles ...
This is exactly what I'll be doing. Obviously both companies will have to make their case to me, the consumer, before I make a concrete decision, but I'm willing to bet that the current generation of consoles is the end of the line for me. I'll work on filling out libraries for systems I currently own, get older consoles/handhelds I don't own, and even snag a PS3 (once it drops in price) at some point for some of its gems as well.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 04, 2013, 04:48:55 pm
This is exactly what I'll be doing. Obviously both companies will have to make their case to me, the consumer, before I make a concrete decision, but I'm willing to bet that the current generation of consoles is the end of the line for me. I'll work on filling out libraries for systems I currently own, get older consoles/handhelds I don't own, and even snag a PS3 (once it drops in price) at some point for some of its gems as well.
Funny thing is, I'm kinda OK with it. I mean, my current wishlist has literally hundreds of games on it, so it's not like I'm going to ever run out of shit to play. I can't even keep up with the games I already have, and I've wanted a PC Engine and Saturn for along time, anyway.
Or maybe I'm just getting old, omg forever alone, etc :p
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 04, 2013, 05:00:10 pm
Part of me wants to get it at launch. If nothing else, if everything goes digital after, this could be the last launch day console I have. Which I haven't done since the Dreamcast. It would be nice to get one last launch day experience.
Either way, I probably won't be buying many games. I'd get one and still work on the 360 for new games.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: ko1ru on February 05, 2013, 09:39:29 am
This is exactly what I'll be doing. Obviously both companies will have to make their case to me, the consumer, before I make a concrete decision, but I'm willing to bet that the current generation of consoles is the end of the line for me. I'll work on filling out libraries for systems I currently own, get older consoles/handhelds I don't own, and even snag a PS3 (once it drops in price) at some point for some of its gems as well.
Funny thing is, I'm kinda OK with it. I mean, my current wishlist has literally hundreds of games on it, so it's not like I'm going to ever run out of shit to play. I can't even keep up with the games I already have ...
Exactly. I'm very OK with it. :)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: libernullmal on February 05, 2013, 01:59:35 pm
I don't know about a new Sega system an they are losing money going the gaming way as http://www.gamespot.com/news/sega-canceling-games-restructuring-business-6369032 . I did read somewhere they were working on controller patented and their was talk of them looking for a new logo with rings. But then again with the above part.. maybe it could happen.. As it goes this could push them into a new system or not.. Would I buy it? Of course because not only of nostalgia but because I believe in them to take this route.
As for the Other next Gen systems such as Wii-U - would like it but I don't see much of a difference other than taking Sega Dreamcast idea and making it bigger full colored and (is it touch screen as well?) the games are still the same quality and of course the games are somewhat good. Xbox series - not really heard anything on it so I'm not for sure probably will buy it and only get the games I like.. PS4 - not heard anything about it. but because of nostalgia I would probably get this one as well.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 05, 2013, 06:40:00 pm
I don't know about a new Sega system an they are losing money going the gaming way as http://www.gamespot.com/news/sega-canceling-games-restructuring-business-6369032 . I did read somewhere they were working on controller patented and their was talk of them looking for a new logo with rings. But then again with the above part.. maybe it could happen.. As it goes this could push them into a new system or not.. Would I buy it? Of course because not only of nostalgia but because I believe in them to take this route.
As for the Other next Gen systems such as Wii-U - would like it but I don't see much of a difference other than taking Sega Dreamcast idea and making it bigger full colored and (is it touch screen as well?) the games are still the same quality and of course the games are somewhat good. Xbox series - not really heard anything on it so I'm not for sure probably will buy it and only get the games I like.. PS4 - not heard anything about it. but because of nostalgia I would probably get this one as well.
Oh, a new Sega system is NOT happening. That part of the thread was just Sega fanboys joking around. To be honest, SEGA ended and ended well. The Dreamcast was a great one to end on. Plus, we got more closure than any other fan base with the fantastically self-referential game "Sega GaGa".
Most of SEGA's stuff isn't even coming stateside anymore. I don't know if SEGA will even be around in 10 years.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: libernullmal on February 06, 2013, 08:53:10 pm
yea too bad they only released it in Japanese and in Japan :(
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: gecko101 on February 06, 2013, 09:57:36 pm
If they were to release a Sega console, done, sold. If they did though, they would fail. Quickly.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: madmax on February 10, 2013, 06:39:06 pm
sounds like next gen consoles are looking to implement DRM, if so they may ruin game collecting. At least, second hand game collecting.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 11, 2013, 11:25:11 am
sounds like next gen consoles are looking to implement DRM, if so they may ruin game collecting. At least, second hand game collecting.
I think it's a safe bet that any manufacturer that prevents people from playing used games will immediately fail the minute it's confirmed as 100% accurate.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 11, 2013, 06:20:53 pm
sounds like next gen consoles are looking to implement DRM, if so they may ruin game collecting. At least, second hand game collecting.
I think it's a safe bet that any manufacturer that prevents people from playing used games will immediately fail the minute it's confirmed as 100% accurate.
I don't know. PC gaming and Steam has been growing throughout the years. I don't like the idea of no physical media and no used games. But I have been supporting it with XBLA and product keys on software for years. People like to complain (myself included) but aren't very introspective. This is not directed at anyone. I'm as guilty as anyone else. Honestly, I love XBLA and Steam.
The PC has been that bastion of "evil" for years. Just ask Richard Stallman. There is no used market for modern PC because they are either downloaded, product keyed, or merely shrink wrapped brown sauce. But the PC gaming market has been growing.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 12, 2013, 05:20:55 pm
I don't know. PC gaming and Steam has been growing throughout the years. I don't like the idea of no physical media and no used games. But I have been supporting it with XBLA and product keys on software for years. People like to complain (myself included) but aren't very introspective. This is not directed at anyone. I'm as guilty as anyone else. Honestly, I love XBLA and Steam.
That's true, but I think a key difference is that with PC gaming, it's designed to be a dynamic, evolving ecosystem. Steam will continue to be updated, and by and large, what you buy will continue to be playable, re-downloadable, centralized, and can easily be backed up or played offline. When a new version of Windows comes out, at some point, I know that there will probably be a way - even if it requires a little tweaking - to play older games. We can even still play DOS games, which is kind of remarkable.
With consoles, it's a closed ecosystem. Once new models are released, old software and hardware tends to be abandoned entirely, except in instances where "classic" games can be re-released and re-sold at a profit, but there are rarely any provisions for people who already own the original release. So for instance, I can buy a digital copy of Odin Sphere on PSN, but am prevented from playing my disc copy. I can re-buy my PSP games for Vita, but there is no adapter for UMD, and no discounts offered. I can play some Xbox games on Xbox 360, but not download any of the DLC that was previously offered, and patches appear to be strictly related to backwards compatibility, and some of the games listed (King of Fighters 02/03, etc) as working actually don't run to any playable extent. Online-centric PS2, Xbox, and DC games are basically paperweights. When the PS4/Durango/whatever are released, there's a good chance that eventually, I won't be able to re-download any DLC or games I've bought.
Ideally, Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo will make an effort to ensure cross-console compatibility and consistency, but since this doesn't make them money in and of itself, and wasn't accounted for to begin with, I really don't see it happening after the fact, and I think (or hope) most gamers recognize this as a deficiency.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: darko on February 12, 2013, 09:42:54 pm
Fact: the majority of people who have the cash to throw down on a new console grew up with (and enjoy) physical media.
Fact: if the next gen consoles from MS and Sony are DL only there is going to be a HUGE demand for modified and hacked consoles and games.
Prediction: if the new consoles are DL only sales figures will come in under expectations for both the consoles and the software. Those with the money and desire will purchase the systems in the first year after release and buy fewer games as time goes on as hacking becomes easier. I'm thinking we're going to see a PSP type of situation which will sting both companies quite a bit. Sure the systems sell...just to be hacked so no one who owns one has the need to pay for games. Developers will stop supporting the systems as much and will strike deals with Nintendo for exclusives, blah blah blah.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: darko on February 12, 2013, 10:14:04 pm
BTW, none of that is going to happen because the new Xbox and PS4 will both have optical drives and won't require a constant internet connection. Bandwidth restriction, intermittent connection issues and the horrible results that have come from companies trying this already (Ubisoft, anyone?) guarantee this. Also, do you really think Sony and MS are dumb enough to limit their customer base to Western Europe, the US, and several parts of Asia where consistently speedy internet is readily available to the majority of consumers? Can you imagine downloading a 20GB file on anything slower than a T1? Shit, God of War 3 is 60gb and MGS4 is 33.2. I would assume we'll see bigger games in the future. This is all hype and has very little merit. It's called common sense.
The country with the fastest average internet connection speed in 2011 was South Korea at 17.5 Mbps.
The US came in at 5.8 Mbps in the same year.
A 60gb file would take ~ 26 hours and 40 minutes @ 5 Mbps average.
Yes there is compression, but seriously. One of the biggest PS2 games was Gran Turismo 4 at ~ 8gb. God of War 3 is 7.5x bigger than GT4. 60 x 7.5 = 450gb. I'm not saying that we're going to see games at 450gb in the near future, but what about a 2 disc game at 50gb per disc? Seems reasonable. At 5 Mbps that's going to take over 44 hours to download. Really.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 12, 2013, 11:34:58 pm
To begin, I pretty much agree with Darko. Nothing big will change next gen is my prediction. Physical media is a given. Moreover, blocking used games is doubtful. Everything I have read, even on rumors, seems to state that they can implement a system that will allow developers to block used games. I don't see many doing this. I could see a few trying on a game (Capcom with Resident Evil, EA with online play, etc.) The next XBOX and PS4 will look remarkably similar to the current gen in features. That is my prediction.
But, playing devil's advocate, I could easily see console manufacturers going digital only soon. I would not be surprised if the rumor that microsoft has an option of digital only is true for next gen. Lot's of countries have bandwidth caps, etc. But, looking at world wide sales figures, these regions don't seem to be big money makers. Especially when you consider that it costs money for a business presence there. Historically console manufacturers have even stayed out of these smaller market areas. Neo Geo allegedly even had a business model of "effectively" staying out of a region and profiting by writing off losses from piracy (oversimplification, but I don't want to take up too much more space). Needless to say, not pursuing a region can sometimes be more profitable.
There was a recent interview from Kempin stating that the money Microsoft makes in XBOX is primarily royalties and digital services. Even then it is a little more that break even. XBox is decent advertising for Windows and Microsoft. It is Microsoft's iPod. This was fairly transparent with the launch of the original XBox. The areas that Microsoft is really concerned with on Windows is North America, Western Europe and parts of Asia.
Ultimately, the companies are in the business of making money... they are not in the business of selling systems... just making money. Sometimes sales and profits don't go hand in hand... especially in computer sales.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 13, 2013, 01:07:47 am
Larry Hryb posted a link to an interesting experiment to see what game sites will publish. A guy sent out an email claiming he worked for microsoft and had insider information. Sites published and then leached off of each other.
http://x-surface.tumblr.com/
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 13, 2013, 09:09:06 am
That's an interesting read for sure. And I can admit to doing something along those lines when I was doing game news. Its part of the reason I stopped doing it. Even going off of press sites and info straight from legit press releases it seemed hard to make sure everything you were writing about was 100% correct.
Eventually the amount of time and effort needed to make sure everything was legit, it got to be too much for me. So now I leave the news to the big boys. But from working on that kinda stuff, its made me slightly skeptical of what I read now a days.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 13, 2013, 12:56:42 pm
Also, do you really think Sony and MS are dumb enough to limit their customer base to Western Europe, the US, and several parts of Asia where consistently speedy internet is readily available to the majority of consumers? Can you imagine downloading a 20GB file on anything slower than a T1? Shit, God of War 3 is 60gb and MGS4 is 33.2. I would assume we'll see bigger games in the future. This is all hype and has very little merit. It's called common sense.
Generally speaking, I agree with everything you said 1000%. Our online infrastructure in NA is a joke right now, and I'm not sure any EU or Asian countries would necessarily fare drastically better... my *only* concern is if Sony or MS adopt a stream-as-you-download concept, which I believe Sony's acquisition of Gaikai is intended to accomplish. This might affect playability, but enough to stop them from trying? I'm not certain on that.
More realistically though, it'll probably be physical media but with stream-as-you-download support for digital releases, or something similar. Guess we'll see :p
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: darko on February 13, 2013, 04:13:06 pm
Our online infrastructure in NA is a joke right now, and I'm not sure any EU or Asian countries would necessarily fare drastically better... my *only* concern is if Sony or MS adopt a stream-as-you-download concept, which I believe Sony's acquisition of Gaikai is intended to accomplish.
I kind of think that's something they're looking at doing, but I can't see it happening for entire games yet. Maybe some PSN or XBL stuff, smaller Indie games, etc. Even at that, what happens when you've been downloading a 60gb file for a couple of hours and your internet hiccups? Do you lose everything? We also haven't even brought up potential issues with the games actually installing correctly, etc, etc, etc (a lot of people had issues installing Ni No Kuni, for example).
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 13, 2013, 04:38:02 pm
Our online infrastructure in NA is a joke right now, and I'm not sure any EU or Asian countries would necessarily fare drastically better... my *only* concern is if Sony or MS adopt a stream-as-you-download concept, which I believe Sony's acquisition of Gaikai is intended to accomplish.
I kind of think that's something they're looking at doing, but I can't see it happening for entire games yet. Maybe some PSN or XBL stuff, smaller Indie games, etc. Even at that, what happens when you've been downloading a 60gb file for a couple of hours and your internet hiccups? Do you lose everything? We also haven't even brought up potential issues with the games actually installing correctly, etc, etc, etc (a lot of people had issues installing Ni No Kuni, for example).
That is my thinking on why we will not see these drastic changes next gen. There are just too many things that don't work well enough now. There are too many attempts that have gone wrong. Same with no used game support. They won't do a massive changeover to this. There are too many unknowns on the console side. Just consider if there was a no preowned game rule on RROD XBoxes or YLOD PS3 systems last gen. It would have been a nightmare. The companies are not ready for this to be mandated.
Now they might provide a system application to do this for developers and allow them to choose. I thin some want it (EA does this with their origin service) and some will use it (or at least try). But I do not think it will be adopted by many. And this is even if microsoft or sony does this.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 13, 2013, 06:29:55 pm
I kind of think that's something they're looking at doing, but I can't see it happening for entire games yet. Maybe some PSN or XBL stuff, smaller Indie games, etc. Even at that, what happens when you've been downloading a 60gb file for a couple of hours and your internet hiccups? Do you lose everything? We also haven't even brought up potential issues with the games actually installing correctly, etc, etc, etc (a lot of people had issues installing Ni No Kuni, for example).
That seems the most likely option right now. As for the hiccup aspect though, most online connections are capable of resuming downloads from where you've left off, though it's also possible it could work like a torrent, where they have x number of seeds running from Sony/MS/whatever, and all concurrent downloads balance their bandwidth between peer/seed roles. Still, it's all speculative, and definitely not a practical consideration for larger games.
It's especially damning when you consider that PSN and XBLA both still hiccup regularly just handling relatively light network traffic in games, even several years after their creation. I really don't see either company capably putting together the kind of massive infrastructure needed to support literally millions of simultaneous 50GB+ connections 24/7.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 13, 2013, 10:44:47 pm
LawnboysPost1975 posted an interesting take on this. I think it is worth a watch and a thought.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: desocietas on February 19, 2013, 05:55:42 pm
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 19, 2013, 06:13:56 pm
Should we make predictions on what happens tomorrow.
Actual prediction - I'm betting PS4 becomes official with a tentative date. November. It's always November. MSRP - 500 USD (I don't think this will be announced though) No other info. Wait until E3. But give something for the investors to be happy about.
Fearful Prediction - Vita is now available in white.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: burningdoom on February 19, 2013, 07:44:09 pm
Considering the economy and competition from cheaper alternatives like Smart Phones and Ouya, it seems $500 would be a VERY high asking price.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 19, 2013, 11:45:18 pm
Considering the economy and competition from cheaper alternatives like Smart Phones and Ouya, it seems $500 would be a VERY high asking price.
I agree it is very high. But it is Sony and the current PS3 is not that much cheaper. You are looking at just shy of 300 dollars for a PS3. And this is in the PS3's twilight years. Considering this, even 400 seems too low for me.
Hopefully it won't be 500, but I bet it will be.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 20, 2013, 01:22:05 pm
Considering the economy and competition from cheaper alternatives like Smart Phones and Ouya, it seems $500 would be a VERY high asking price.
I keep seeing this kind of argument from different circles, but I still firmly believe that the market for gaming on phones and tablets is completely different than the market for dedicated consoles. It's like the hardcore vs. casual debate - the Wii sold primarily to a casual audience, but they didn't come through and buy enough games to satisfy third-parties. By contrast, the PS3 and 360 attracted millions of hardcore gamers, but failed to capture a casual audience. Different prices, different goals, different audiences. Personally, I've yet to meet a single gamer who takes smartphone and tablet games seriously - the closest example I can think of is a guy I know who bought one of the Final Fantasy games for his phone to kill time at work.
As for Ouya, people keep trying to talk it up, but it's still a flash in the pan product held up only by what people want it to become, not what it actually is, which is a casual gaming wasteland that offers nothing to a hardcore audience that's more interested in games than empty rhetoric.
The only thing Sony has to do is offer compelling hardware at a price that people can swallow (and $400-500 really isn't too bad, considering a PS3 is $250-300), and not break too strongly from the things that people like(d) about PlayStation so far. Whether they accomplish that is up in the air for now, but they're playing on a different field than Ouya, Android, and iOS.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on February 20, 2013, 02:17:54 pm
Considering the economy and competition from cheaper alternatives like Smart Phones and Ouya, it seems $500 would be a VERY high asking price.
I keep seeing this kind of argument from different circles, but I still firmly believe that the market for gaming on phones and tablets is completely different than the market for dedicated consoles. It's like the hardcore vs. casual debate - the Wii sold primarily to a casual audience, but they didn't come through and buy enough games to satisfy third-parties. By contrast, the PS3 and 360 attracted millions of hardcore gamers, but failed to capture a casual audience. Different prices, different goals, different audiences. Personally, I've yet to meet a single gamer who takes smartphone and tablet games seriously - the closest example I can think of is a guy I know who bought one of the Final Fantasy games for his phone to kill time at work.
As for Ouya, people keep trying to talk it up, but it's still a flash in the pan product held up only by what people want it to become, not what it actually is, which is a casual gaming wasteland that offers nothing to a hardcore audience that's more interested in games than empty rhetoric.
The only thing Sony has to do is offer compelling hardware at a price that people can swallow (and $400-500 really isn't too bad, considering a PS3 is $250-300), and not break too strongly from the things that people like(d) about PlayStation so far. Whether they accomplish that is up in the air for now, but they're playing on a different field than Ouya, Android, and iOS.
finally, someone i can agree with, someone thats not telling me that smartphone and tablet gaming are killing the dedicated consoles market and how the ouya is gonna reform the consoles market
think you insektmute
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: disgaeniac on February 20, 2013, 03:52:01 pm
Considering the economy and competition from cheaper alternatives like Smart Phones and Ouya, it seems $500 would be a VERY high asking price.
I keep seeing this kind of argument from different circles, but I still firmly believe that the market for gaming on phones and tablets is completely different than the market for dedicated consoles. It's like the hardcore vs. casual debate - the Wii sold primarily to a casual audience, but they didn't come through and buy enough games to satisfy third-parties. By contrast, the PS3 and 360 attracted millions of hardcore gamers, but failed to capture a casual audience. Different prices, different goals, different audiences. Personally, I've yet to meet a single gamer who takes smartphone and tablet games seriously - the closest example I can think of is a guy I know who bought one of the Final Fantasy games for his phone to kill time at work.
As for Ouya, people keep trying to talk it up, but it's still a flash in the pan product held up only by what people want it to become, not what it actually is, which is a casual gaming wasteland that offers nothing to a hardcore audience that's more interested in games than empty rhetoric.
The only thing Sony has to do is offer compelling hardware at a price that people can swallow (and $400-500 really isn't too bad, considering a PS3 is $250-300), and not break too strongly from the things that people like(d) about PlayStation so far. Whether they accomplish that is up in the air for now, but they're playing on a different field than Ouya, Android, and iOS.
finally, someone i can agree with, someone thats not telling me that smartphone and tablet gaming are killing the dedicated consoles market and how the ouya is gonna reform the consoles market
think you insektmute
I also agree w/ the 2 of you 100% on this :)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 20, 2013, 04:02:48 pm
I remember when the 3DS first came out. I knew a guy who was "calling it" that handheld gaming was going to die off thanks to mobile phones and ipads. So far, I don't see it. haha
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: burningdoom on February 20, 2013, 04:27:26 pm
Most longtime gamers know that it's not the console or handheld that sells the system, it's the games. And smart phone gaming just doesn't have as good of games. 3DS has Mario, Zelda, Starfox, and others that Angry Birds or Fruit Ninja just can't touch.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 04:47:10 pm
The event starts in about 1 hour and 15 minutes. Do you think there will be much detail on the system? Any details on games? Or do you think it will just be an announcement of the system?
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: soera on February 20, 2013, 04:51:51 pm
Do you have a good link of the event being webcast?
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 04:57:11 pm
Bonus points if they're like, "Oh yeah, and Legend of Dragoon 2, because some guy in a basement has secretly been working on it for like, 12 years."
That would be pretty sweet actually. I'd at least buy the game on release and then play it like 5 years later.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 06:14:49 pm
So far they've said they are proud to reveal the GENESIS (of next generation gaming)... and also mentioned blast processing. I sensing a dreamcast 2. :P
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: burningdoom on February 20, 2013, 06:21:40 pm
So far they've said they are proud to reveal the GENESIS (of next generation gaming)... and also mentioned blast processing. I sensing a dreamcast 2. :P
Don't tease me.
BTW, I can't get the link you posted to work. It's goes to nothing.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 06:23:14 pm
So far they've said they are proud to reveal the GENESIS (of next generation gaming)... and also mentioned blast processing. I sensing a dreamcast 2. :P
Don't tease me.
BTW, I can't get the link you posted to work. It's goes to nothing.
It actually just kicked me off. Technical issues I assume if we are both having issues. Here's hoping that streaming games thing is a rumor. 8)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 06:25:16 pm
From what I saw so far, they announced the PS4. Showed the new controller. It is a dualshock with a little screen on it with a built-in "move" like device. They started showing the first game. But kicked me off before anything substantial.
It has 8 GB of Ram.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: atariboy on February 20, 2013, 06:36:17 pm
having a friend help you out when you're stuck and take over your controller through the network is pretty cool! Cuz God knows I need the help :P
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 06:57:29 pm
New Killzone
A game called Drive Club
inFamous (Intro made it sound like the plot of X-Men)
The Witness
Deep Down (Capcom working title)
Final Fantasy? (the final fantasy 15? trailer shown before. As far as I know it is untitled though)
Watchdogs (Be sure to hit that share button)
Diablo 3 (PS4 and PS3)
Destiny
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: jobocan on February 20, 2013, 06:58:24 pm
Hopefully they'll show a game that looks cool, because Killzone 4 looks... well, just like the other Killzones, but with slightly nicer graphics.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 20, 2013, 07:00:30 pm
The short version: 8-core CPU, 8GB GDDR5, DualShock 4 w/ headset jack and integrated touchpad, improved analog sticks, improved rumble, no PS3 compatibility, continued cross-play with Vita, streaming services that work more like Netflix Instant, allowing you to play digital games as you download them or use the Gaikai app to play stuff immediately, continued use of Blu-ray, due out "in time for Christmas" and... yeah. No word on price, but I'd bet $400-500 is accurate.
Basically, I'm stoked as fuck and want one now. All I was really after was an upgraded PS4, no bullshit forced on me, physical media, and the hardware is a massive jump ahead of what's out now, and easier for developers to work on.
My prediction? PS2 2.0 - shit just got real.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: jobocan on February 20, 2013, 07:08:19 pm
inFamous! Fuck and yes! Hopefully it's as good as the first 2.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 07:30:05 pm
The Capcom guy is freakin' awesome. He's the best part so far.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: soera on February 20, 2013, 07:42:17 pm
I cant watch that shit ... Keep me updated. My computer is whining atm.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 07:46:39 pm
Gamelist (there is one I'm missing from being cutoff. It looked like Lego Warcraft when I was getting cutoff)
Killzone Drive Club inFamous The Witness Deep Down (Capcom working title) Final Fantasy? Watchdogs Diablo 3 Destiny
It was Knack
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 08:11:24 pm
Overall, I thought it was good. But ultimately, I wasn't too impressed. The controller looks awful. Although I have always disliked the dualshock and it is a matter of taste.
The games look good but not a huge leap. We already saw watchdogs and the square enix stuff. And although regarded as next gen then. They weren't a big enough leap to make it definitive. That was basically the feeling I had. The games looked like REALLY good PS3 or 360 games. But every other console announcement I remember being blown away. I think we have now gone past the times huge leaps in technology.
If every game listed was a launch game (I know they are not) I would be interested in Drive Club, Watch Dogs, and Destiny. Possibly Diablo 3 (I have not played it on PC and would be interested in a general grind game).
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: jobocan on February 20, 2013, 08:12:29 pm
Well at least one interesting game was shown, inFamous Second Son should be badass... guess that means I'm getting a PS4. But I was hoping for more.... Guess E3 will have an FF game announced, hopefully more.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 20, 2013, 08:38:56 pm
Personally, I'm not too concerned with launch titles. Just about every system winds up with maybe 1-2 OK'ish games and a bunch of crap, followed by a slowly building rush of really worthwhile stuff 1-2 years after launch, at which point everyone forgets what half the launch titles were even called.
What sells me, on the other hand, is the list of supporting developers. Aside from the usual heavy hitters, a few personal picks:
- Acquire - Arc System Works - Atlus - CD Projekt RED - Falcom - Ganbarion - Grasshopper Manufacture - GungHo - From Software - Imageepoch - Level 5 - Marvelous - Ninja Theory - Nippon Ichi - tri-Ace
Get inside my haus, weird Japanese games.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: desocietas on February 20, 2013, 08:48:28 pm
Personally, I'm not too concerned with launch titles. Just about every system winds up with maybe 1-2 OK'ish games and a bunch of crap, followed by a slowly building rush of really worthwhile stuff 1-2 years after launch, at which point everyone forgets what half the launch titles were even called.
What sells me, on the other hand, is the list of supporting developers. Aside from the usual heavy hitters, a few personal picks:
- Acquire - Arc System Works - Atlus - CD Projekt RED - Falcom - Ganbarion - Grasshopper Manufacture - GungHo - From Software - Imageepoch - Level 5 - Marvelous - Ninja Theory - Nippon Ichi - tri-Ace
Get inside my haus, weird Japanese games.
lol, yeah, sounds like a promising lineup of niche games. And limited editions, hopefully!
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: darko on February 20, 2013, 09:50:12 pm
Why in the FUCK is the processor only going to be clocked to 1.6GHz??? I don't need my gaming console to be Energy Star certified...I need it to be badass.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 09:54:20 pm
Why in the FUCK is the processor only going to be clocked to 1.6GHz??? I don't need my gaming console to be Energy Star certified...I need it to be badass.
LOL
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 20, 2013, 10:09:00 pm
Why in the FUCK is the processor only going to be clocked to 1.6GHz??? I don't need my gaming console to be Energy Star certified...I need it to be badass.
Ha, welcome to the "next generation"?
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 20, 2013, 11:04:18 pm
I'm going to sound like Sony Defense Force for a moment here, but as someone who builds computers, I can't shut up on this topic. It doesn't help that coworkers of mine thought the hard drive was only 8GB, until I explained that memory and drive space are different things.
Anyway, clock speeds say absolutely nothing about performance. It's instructions per clock that count, and 9 times out of 10, that info isn't openly published. That aside, I'd put money on the processor setting itself at 1.6GHz as a baseline during idle, but scaling performance up a bit as the game or app you're running demands, which is how most processors are set to run out of the box unless you manually set them to run full bore all the time. Judging from the basic info mentioned on the CPU so far, this thing is probably based on AMD's Trinity series of CPU+GPU processors, which means it hits reasonably close to lower end AMD and Intel chips, but without generating a shitload of heat or draining power like a sieve.
Take into account what it would do to the price for them to include something akin to Core i5-3570K (around $220) or FX-8320 (I paid $120 for mine), and the fact that higher power consumption and heat means a beefier power supply, capacitors with higher operating tolerances, etc, and this really is about the best compromise between price/performance we could possibly hope for.
This next gen is mostly going to come down to build quality, extra features, and exclusives, not who has a bigger dick.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 20, 2013, 11:29:35 pm
I'm thinking that based on Nintendo and Sony's showings so far, I won't be choosing sides until deep in the generation. But currently Nintendo has me leaning that way with the new monolith game.
If it does turn out to be the next PS2 in terms of quality titles and hardware, Sony may win me back. But in the last gen the PS3 was pretty meh for me and I won't come back easy.
If Microsoft continues on this media center path with their next console. Which i think it will, I don't think I'll be remaining with them. So its really down to two choices at that point.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 20, 2013, 11:47:30 pm
I'm going to sound like Sony Defense Force for a moment here, but as someone who builds computers, I can't shut up on this topic. It doesn't help that coworkers of mine thought the hard drive was only 8GB, until I explained that memory and drive space are different things.
Anyway, clock speeds say absolutely nothing about performance. It's instructions per clock that count, and 9 times out of 10, that info isn't openly published. That aside, I'd put money on the processor setting itself at 1.6GHz as a baseline during idle, but scaling performance up a bit as the game or app you're running demands, which is how most processors are set to run out of the box unless you manually set them to run full bore all the time. Judging from the basic info mentioned on the CPU so far, this thing is probably based on AMD's Trinity series of CPU+GPU processors, which means it hits reasonably close to lower end AMD and Intel chips, but without generating a shitload of heat or draining power like a sieve.
Take into account what it would do to the price for them to include something akin to Core i5-3570K (around $220) or FX-8320 (I paid $120 for mine), and the fact that higher power consumption and heat means a beefier power supply, capacitors with higher operating tolerances, etc, and this really is about the best compromise between price/performance we could possibly hope for.
This next gen is mostly going to come down to build quality, extra features, and exclusives, not who has a bigger dick.
While this is true, I don't know of a x86 processor being mass produced right now that is anything near the 1.6 GHz. I am familiar with the real important parts of a CPU. Both from Computer Engineering courses in college and being a Mac fan during the PPC days when we used to always have to explain RISC vs CISC. (I still hate CISC)
The only thing I have actually seen announced on the CPU is that it is a "high-end" x86. x86 at least gives us some information on clock speed. Even though intel architecture is basically all that is out there and there is a lot of variation, there is still a low-end and high-end. PPC and motorolla chips would have made a low clock speed a little more understandable. But a lot comes down to... do we even know the speed yet? When I searched I could not find anything.
The CPU will be lower than PC due to heat, cost, and dependance on GPU.
I think most of the comments on the clock speed were in reply to the humorous nature of it and Darko's comment. I don't care who you are, Darko's comment was funny.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 21, 2013, 01:19:37 am
While this is true, I don't know of a x86 processor being mass produced right now that is anything near the 1.6 GHz. I am familiar with the real important parts of a CPU. Both from Computer Engineering courses in college and being a Mac fan during the PPC days when we used to always have to explain RISC vs CISC. (I still hate CISC)
The only thing I have actually seen announced on the CPU is that it is a "high-end" x86. x86 at least gives us some information on clock speed. Even though intel architecture is basically all that is out there and there is a lot of variation, there is still a low-end and high-end. PPC and motorolla chips would have made a low clock speed a little more understandable. But a lot comes down to... do we even know the speed yet? When I searched I could not find anything.
The CPU will be lower than PC due to heat, cost, and dependance on GPU.
I think most of the comments on the clock speed were in reply to the humorous nature of it and Darko's comment. I don't care who you are, Darko's comment was funny.
The CPU market is kind of up in the air right now, which actually made it really tough to plan out the build I'm working toward right now. Intel has Haswell coming down the pipe, where it's all about low power, and AMD is doing... who knows what. Floundering mostly, which is sad, though they're offering quite a bit considering the price difference.
I've seen quite a few comments mentioning that the PS4 uses a Jaguar core, but it's probably custom designed to meet Sony's requirements - http://www.techpowerup.com/180394/AMD-quot-Jaguar-quot-Micro-architecture-Takes-the-Fight-to-Atom-with-AVX-SSE4-Quad-Core.html
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 21, 2013, 01:24:59 am
I'm thinking that based on Nintendo and Sony's showings so far, I won't be choosing sides until deep in the generation. But currently Nintendo has me leaning that way with the new monolith game.
If it does turn out to be the next PS2 in terms of quality titles and hardware, Sony may win me back. But in the last gen the PS3 was pretty meh for me and I won't come back easy.
If Microsoft continues on this media center path with their next console. Which i think it will, I don't think I'll be remaining with them. So its really down to two choices at that point.
I have a gut feeling that I'll wind up going PS4 for my main console, but will wind up picking up a Wii U despite not liking the hardware, just because of Nintendo's first-party stuff and the odd slice of hardcore craziness like Bayonetta 2.
As for Xbox, I'm pretty soured on them for a lot of reasons, particularly the crap build quality of pre-Slim models. The media center thing coming around front and center would definitely be off-putting, but knowing me, it'll always come down to whether there are enough games I want to play. I wound up with all three consoles this gen, which I definitely hadn't planned on back when I first got my 360.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: darko on February 21, 2013, 01:31:40 am
Anyway, clock speeds say absolutely nothing about performance. It's instructions per clock that count, and 9 times out of 10, that info isn't openly published.
You don't say?
Not trying to be the biggest dick or anything, but my post was obviously a joke.
WiiU? Meh PS4? Probably Xbox? We'll see
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: psydswipe on February 21, 2013, 06:11:33 am
I thought it was underwhelming :P While I understand the basics of the tech, I don't pay a lot of attention to those. I know the graphics will be good, that's a given. I'm still interested but they didn't tell me anything I wanted to know, namely the price and whether the online features will cost anything, nor did they actually show what it looks like. The two games I'd like to play I'll probably end up playing on the current gen systems or PC if they're definitely on those (Watch Dogs and Destiny). I don't really care about Infamous or Killzone games. They're likely holding back some of the good stuff for E3.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on February 21, 2013, 10:29:21 am
this was very disappointing conference,some of it was impressive like the graphics and some of the gaikai stuff was cool but for the most part stuff like social features,share button,some of the games and the weird mix of hardcore gaming and casual gaming marketing left me vary underwhelmed
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: varkias on February 21, 2013, 05:25:13 am
Next gen I'll be sticking with my PC. I was a huge fan of PS1 and PS2, I'm still bitter about what Sony has done with the PS3. Removing multiple features that convinced me to go Playstation again over Wii/XBox. They are calling the PS4 a media center, that's also what they said about the PS3. The browser is still complete GARBAGE after 7 years, it only supports a couple ancient video formats. I would prefer they finally update this stuff than come out with new hardware. Next Gen is dead to me...
I just noticed they announced that PSN purchases won't transfer to the PS4... awesome. I'm willing to bet they'll be available for purchase again though!
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 21, 2013, 02:05:46 pm
this was very disappointing conference,some of it was impressive like the graphics and some of the gaikai stuff was cool but for the most part stuff like social features,share button,some of the games and the weird mix of hardcore gaming and casual gaming marketing left me vary underwhelmed
Welcome to Next Gen! I'm being serious too...
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 21, 2013, 02:32:05 pm
I didn't watch the conference - did they mention anything about the Vita? They'll probably wait until E3, but I thought I'd ask.
I didn't catch all of it, but there was a blurb about focusing more on Vita, and they'll be continuing cross-play w/ PS4 games. I think that's about it, but I'm hoping they'll say something about price cuts soon - need me a 32GB memory card, and I reallllly don't wanna pay the stupidly high price for one :/
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on February 21, 2013, 02:36:23 pm
I didn't watch the conference - did they mention anything about the Vita? They'll probably wait until E3, but I thought I'd ask.
the only thing vita related they talked about was remote play (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/02/20/play-playstation-4-games-on-your-vita) and thats about it also it will not be backwards compatible with the ps3 (http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/playstation-4-not-backwards-compatible-with-retail-or-digital-games)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 21, 2013, 03:09:56 pm
I guess it also will not play PSN games you purchased on the PS3? That's kinda crappy if you ask me. Luckily I don't have a whole lot of PSN content downloaded, but if it was MS and the next Xbox I would be pretty disappointed.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: psydswipe on February 21, 2013, 03:15:47 pm
I didn't watch the conference - did they mention anything about the Vita? They'll probably wait until E3, but I thought I'd ask.
Actually they opened by saying how powerful the Vita is but then they went all PS4 for the next two hours. It was rather long though more than half of it was inviting up each individual developer/publisher on stage to show off a game, similar to how E3 press conferences go. They wouldn't even let the press hold a controller yet so that's something else for E3. Of course, they mentioned a number of social features and cloud items as many have already addressed here, but the conference was primarily just to make an official announcement which benefits the third-party publishers just as much as Sony since they can now say which of their games are for PS4. I'm sure we can assume Watch Dogs and Destiny are for the next Xbox system too but they can't say that until Microsoft officially names their next platform.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: desocietas on February 21, 2013, 03:21:22 pm
Oh, I didn't know about the incompatibility with PS3 games... So I guess I can't leapfrog over the PS3 (which I don't own) if I want to play the PS3 titles I do own...
Blast!
Also, thanks, folks, for letting me know the lowdown on the Vita. I figured they wouldn't say anything about a pricecut or a new model or anything, but I just thought I'd ask :)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: scott on February 21, 2013, 03:28:48 pm
Oh, I didn't know about the incompatibility with PS3 games... So I guess I can't leapfrog over the PS3 (which I don't own) if I want to play the PS3 titles I do own...
Blast!
Ya, but if we follow Sony's history, the PS3 will still be in the market long after the PS4 has been released. And the console will be pretty cheap to pick one up new, albeit stripped down to bare minimum.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: desocietas on February 21, 2013, 04:39:33 pm
Oh, I didn't know about the incompatibility with PS3 games... So I guess I can't leapfrog over the PS3 (which I don't own) if I want to play the PS3 titles I do own...
Blast!
Ya, but if we follow Sony's history, the PS3 will still be in the market long after the PS4 has been released. And the console will be pretty cheap to pick one up new, albeit stripped down to bare minimum.
Yeah, I can probably wait, but I was hoping to play Ni No Kuni sooner than later :\
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 21, 2013, 06:22:25 pm
Oh, I didn't know about the incompatibility with PS3 games... So I guess I can't leapfrog over the PS3 (which I don't own) if I want to play the PS3 titles I do own...
Blast!
Ya, but if we follow Sony's history, the PS3 will still be in the market long after the PS4 has been released. And the console will be pretty cheap to pick one up new, albeit stripped down to bare minimum.
Actually, one of the things I find most exciting about the new gen is being able to buy old gen on clearance. Once I can find some 360s for $50 new, I will probably buy 1 or 2 as a possible replacement for down the road from bad lasers, RROD, or what not. Although, my XBox 20GB premium is still running strong after about 6 years. But the reports of these early models have me a little freaked out. But, I just open it up and clean it every once in a while. It seems strong and well built if you are mindful of dust. Or I may have just licked out. *knock on wood*
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: ko1ru on February 23, 2013, 10:37:49 am
... Bonus points if they're like, "Oh yeah, and Legend of Dragoon 2, because some guy in a basement has secretly been working on it for like, 12 years."
LMAO! This would be the coolest thing ever. ;P
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: disgaeniac on February 23, 2013, 10:59:51 am
... Bonus points if they're like, "Oh yeah, and ANOTHER and/or A NEW SHADOW-HEARTS game, because some guy in a basement has secretly been working on it for like, 12 years."
LMAO! This would be the coolest thing ever. ;P
Fix'd :P
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 23, 2013, 12:20:17 pm
Shadow Hearts 4 and Legend of Dragoon 2 as launch titles. Sounds legit!
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on February 23, 2013, 02:19:10 pm
here is a great comment about the ps4 from ars technica and im sorry that its a wall of text
I don't know what to think about the PS4, All they showed at the press event was that its an upgraded PS3. Heck even most of the games showed at the even are confirmed to be released on the PS3 (let alone XBox 360). And WatchDog was running, again, on a high-end PC.
The games demonstrated where not even a game demonstrated. We just saw few glimpse of game play, lots of fog, and particle effects to make it look visually appeasing, but nothing demonstrate the real power of the console. KillZone look nice, but if you analyses the footage, you question some ares as being pre-rendered (like the buildings where it starts), because if you see the trailer again, you notice that when he is walking, you see lots of impressive visuals, but the field of view is very very short... you have smoke everywhere. You can't see shit. I remember games on PC that used to be like this many years ago, it was a cheap trick to hide view limit, to show more impressive graphics. So all in all, I am not too impressed. Although., it did have some cool stuff like Knack that I was more interested in seeing as it was a PS4 exclusive.. but only glimpse of it was showed.
As for the specs, it's clear that the console is a powerful system.. for a game console, but I feel insulted that they just throw fancy terms that most people don't know. It has 8GB of RAM! WOOOOOWWW, While it is impressive, it is being shared with the system and RAM. It is using shared memory. Now while, on PC shared memory graphic card are very poor performance, at least they used GPU optimized memory.. GDDR5. But, the CPU will struggle.
For those who don't know, GDDR5 is modified DDR3 chips, where in exchange of reduce density and increase latency, you have high bandwidth. GPU doesn't really care about latency... it care and wants more high bandwidth over anything else. Why? Because it allows the GPU to store and load large data.. such as texture, and process scenes in advance, etc. The CPU in the other hand want low latency.
Also, we have no idea on the speed of the memory.. is it 400MHz? 800Mhz? 60000MHz? Faster chip cost a lot of money... assuming Sony wants to avoid the huge loss they had with the PS3 on each sold, and wants to sale it at a lower price.. it's probably slow memory.
Also, we don't know how the GPU manages memory. Assuming it's a Radeon 7000 series architecture, those cards, while impressive, needs A LOT of memory compared to Nvidia offering with the 600 series. It's just how the architecture was designed.
Also, as the console record a segment of your play to share it, we don't know if it will be using an SSD to work with (but that will be a lot of writes, which might impact the life span of the SSD, especially if they use an asynchronous memory over synchronous ones (asynchronous cost less), or worst, TLC memory. Or , and more likely, will be using the RAM as storage. So in the end, if it uses the RAM for temporary storing the game play.. games have what? 2GB of RAM to use?! So, in other words, they throw at us on purpose fancy numbers, in order to impress us, but they are meaningless.
Also, a lot of people are questioning the 8-core AMD... and saying it's really a 4 core CPU, with some technology to make it kinda 8. It's a bit like if Intel says Core i7, 8 core CPU... where they really mean 4 core, but with hyper-threading. That is what people believe, there is a lot of questions and ambiguity on this
Also, a lot of stuff that was said on the press event about the console where empty promises. There were at no point "We can do it", but rather "We think we can do it".
Also, all they have been doing it throwing at us buzz words, like we will be exited about it... I guess that's was more targeting for investors rather than gamers, that fine.. but investors didn't buy in, as the stock of Sony went down.
Ok so the console is not ready.. that's fine, and that's fair. Probably Sony is still working on contract with manufactures to know what they can have as deal, to be sure on what specs the console they can have, at the price region they want. That's fine... Nintendo did the same. So how about the controller? Beside the share button, we know nothing. Does it have rumble or was that put aside like the PS3 at release? How about the MAIN FEATURE of the controller, the big fat touchpad? That's like Nintendo going on stage and saying "Here is the WiiU controller, that black box that looks like a screen turned off, we have no comment on it." I mean common. So far, I see no reason or point of the touchpad.. at least with the WiiU game pad, I kinda can see what Nintendo is going for, and it looks fun to try. I don't see it as ground breaking, but looks like a cool feature to have to change the game experience a bit. PS3 touchpad? heeuuuuu... rub my finger on it to make my charter do stuff? Maybe, tap on it, and is like an extra button? Come one! Now, that is gimmicky like crazy! And I am NOT using a touchpad to interact with a game as a mouse. That's stupid.
And how about the console downloading games in advance with me knowing, as it thinks I want to buy it? That will kill my bandwidth limit. Not everyone live in a country that have GB/s internet and unlimited bandwidth. It better have a turn off feature.
How about latency in streaming games over the net?
So in result, I am a disappointing in this press event, it raised more questions than answers. It has some cool features, like streaming a demo, I guess sharing video clips in you are in to that, but not much. For me, nothing that says I want the console. Even if you were not interested in the PS3, would still have a reason to buy it, and perhaps several games (which makes Sony gets their money back, especially in the later revisions of the consoles), due to the Blu-ray player, as it was nearly half the price of one. This time, Blu-ray player drop significantly in price. You can find some at 60-100$ on the PC, that can even burn Blu-ray disks. So I don't see the appeal.
Sony really has to up the game at E3. But I guess, Sony did what they wanted to do, get people talking about the PS4.
a lot of what he said i agree with, how about you
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 23, 2013, 03:03:42 pm
I think it's better to make up your own mind than let other people speak for you, but my general stance is that if you're knowledgeable about modern x86 architecture, the specs make for some interesting reading, but for people who are not, it's pretty silly to parse the information from a layman's perspective and draw conclusions based on a position of ignorance.
Put another way: People know what 4-4-4-12 2T running in a dual-channel configuration means can figure out the hardware for themselves. People who don't are basically just talking shit.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 23, 2013, 03:18:52 pm
Besides, if the rumors are even remotely accurate, Durango and the PS4 will be running virtually identical hardware, so... ?
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on February 23, 2013, 03:57:08 pm
the thing i agree with him is the lack of a demo of the controller and the misconception of the specs that the media and people keep on hammering us with
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 23, 2013, 04:29:18 pm
I think the spec issue can be boiled down to the following: if you want massive power, get a PC. Consoles are economy PCs built for a limited function. Console gaming and PC gaming are different beasts. I don't see a problem with that.
The PS4 and XBox 720 will be fairly similar. That is my prediction. In this sense, the specs don't matter much at all. The only way that they would matter is if you simply must have the best possible graphical experience and speed. If that's the case, go buy a gaming PC. But from what I've seen the PS4 is pretty good on the power side of things.
From the beginning, people have been looking for negative aspects of the hardware. Whether it is download only, no used games, always on connection, etc. People seem to want to hate this next generation of consoles. They have been straining to get any negative aspects they can. It's kind of fascinating to watch really.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 23, 2013, 07:02:22 pm
sin2beta touches on something interesting, which is that in becoming so similar to low-end PCs, I wonder if consoles are losing some of what makes them unique and justifies their purpose. Previous consoles have all had components that made them stand out in some way, like custom sound chips, or RISC-based processors designed by MIPS, Hitachi, and IBM, but now it's mainly shifted toward AMD, Direct X, and... basically stuff I can order from Newegg.
This has no impact on users, and probably makes development a lot easier, but something about that kind of homogeneity bothers me a little.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 23, 2013, 08:59:41 pm
sin2beta touches on something interesting, which is that in becoming so similar to low-end PCs, I wonder if consoles are losing some of what makes them unique and justifies their purpose. Previous consoles have all had components that made them stand out in some way, like custom sound chips, or RISC-based processors designed by MIPS, Hitachi, and IBM, but now it's mainly shifted toward AMD, Direct X, and... basically stuff I can order from Newegg.
This has no impact on users, and probably makes development a lot easier, but something about that kind of homogeneity bothers me a little.
It's been that way since the first XBox. It was one of that systems main criticisms at its launch. Gone are the days of scaled down arcade parts. And long gone are the beautiful simple circuitry of the 2600/ColecoVision/Intellivision era. The XBox strategy just makes the most sense financially, developmentally, and as an end-user.
Personally, I thought the PS3 and 360 were essentially the same system. It just comes down to what controller or online service you like more. Most games were available on PC as well. This next gen should not be different. If you hook a PC to your TV with steam, you will get about the same experience as a PS4 or 720 user.
Sega's farewell song "Sega GaGa" touches on this a little bit with the rise of the "Drone Corporation". Prophetic?
Despite all the hate that the "gimmicky" aspects of Nintendo uses, Nintendo is the last company to keep its console feel, in my opinion at least. This is due to the hardware influencing the game so much. It's quite beautiful in its implementation if I say so.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: insektmute on February 23, 2013, 10:30:55 pm
It's been that way since the first XBox. It was one of that systems main criticisms at its launch. Gone are the days of scaled down arcade parts. And long gone are the beautiful simple circuitry of the 2600/ColecoVision/Intellivision era. The XBox strategy just makes the most sense financially, developmentally, and as an end-user.
Personally, I thought the PS3 and 360 were essentially the same system. It just comes down to what controller or online service you like more. Most games were available on PC as well. This next gen should not be different. If you hook a PC to your TV with steam, you will get about the same experience as a PS4 or 720 user.
Sega's farewell song "Sega GaGa" touches on this a little bit with the rise of the "Drone Corporation". Prophetic?
Despite all the hate that the "gimmicky" aspects of Nintendo uses, Nintendo is the last company to keep its console feel, in my opinion at least. This is due to the hardware influencing the game so much. It's quite beautiful in its implementation if I say so.
Trufax. I agree that it makes the most sense to everyone involved, but out of nostalgia or just liking hardware with personality, it's unfortunate all the same. I remember when I was a kid and reading about the N64 in Nintendo Power, and being just totally captivated by an article describing some of the SGI elements used, and how developers were building games using these (for the time) really state-of-the-art workstations. Just feels like a little of that magic is lost, even though I'm generally the sort of person that loves digging into computer hardware.
Who knows, maybe companies like EA will eventually get their "one console to rule them all" dream to come true?
I don't entirely agree on Nintendo, but I do think they've done a really good job of maintaining a sense of consistency and identity over the years, particularly with their handhelds. I do have to give some credit on the 3DS, though - I was pretty pessimistic about the 3D effect beforehand, but now that I have one (arrived last night!), I'm actually really impressed! Time will tell if I leave it on all the time, but it's still really cool :)
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: sin2beta on February 27, 2013, 10:32:11 pm
I'm hearing April 26th for Microsoft.
Title: Re: Next Gen Announcement coming?
Post by: htimreimer on March 04, 2013, 06:16:18 pm
this guy brings up some good points about the video game industry, take a look (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/6905-New-Generation-Old-Bullsh-t)