General and Gaming => Modern Video Games => Topic started by: stuntman64 on November 03, 2013, 04:11:29 pm
Title: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 03, 2013, 04:11:29 pm
Do you think the holiday line up will turn the Wii U around?
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: burningdoom on November 03, 2013, 04:13:57 pm
I'm already sold on it, personally. I'm just waiting to see what happens this Christmas, first. I might be getting one, since I mentioned the possibility buying Kingrat's Sega CD a week or so back to my wife, and she told me I should hold off on getting any consoles.
Upcoming new Zelda, New Super Mario Wii U, New Super Luigi, Super Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Country Returns 2, Rayman Legends, and now there's even rumblings of a new Metroid on the horizon. How can you not be excited about that kind of an exclusive game line-up?
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: azure on November 03, 2013, 04:16:13 pm
I think it will, I'm actually planning on getting one this holiday season.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on November 03, 2013, 05:53:16 pm
I got one last Christmas. I love it. I wish there were more games, but I really dig it. I just had to get used to the idea of it being used solely for first party Nintendo games. Third party support seems to just be a dream these days.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 04, 2013, 12:01:36 am
I'm planning to grab one sometime this coming year, I think. There aren't a ton of games I want, but enough, and after seeing how the Xbone turned out, I figure I'll be siding with the PS4 and Wii U this gen.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 04, 2013, 08:31:32 am
I want a Wii U but I was wonder yours opinion if the sales will raise to an acceptable level because of the holiday line up?
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 04, 2013, 03:47:35 pm
I don't think the holiday line-up will make an impact in any capacity. System sellers are what's needed, and for most people I know, Wind Waker HD is the only big Must Have of what's actually going to be available this year.
It's enough to make me want one, but then, I also missed out on getting it on GameCube, so...
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 06, 2013, 07:42:52 pm
Sales in Japan Exploded from just Wii Party U, about 15 times.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: kingrat101 on November 06, 2013, 10:27:13 pm
I really do like the wii u, I think it has a lot of potential especially if developers utilize the controller more. I think that some of these games will really help the wii u's sales, but I also don't think Nintendo really needs to worry about the competition just yet. Not to hurt anyone's feeling or anything but the PS4 really doesn't have a whole lot of must have games at it's launch and we all know what kind of trouble the Xbox one is in right now... P.S. Holy crap! I really am hoping for a new Metroid, there's way too much potential with the controller and HD to not have a Metroid game
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: teck on November 07, 2013, 06:13:48 am
I think the current line up is good on the Wii U.... As long as they keep a steady pace from this point forward I see no problems.... I'm more concerned with 3rd party support however....
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: jobocan on November 07, 2013, 08:33:24 am
I'm more concerned with 3rd party support however....
Meh. The last time Nintendo had truly solid 3rd party support was 17 years ago. They've carried their last 3 systems with their own games almost exclusively, and they'll probably be doing it again with the Wii U.
The Wii U is a nice system though and already has quite a few really good games (Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Sonic Lost World) and a lot of great stuff upcoming (Zelda, Mario 3D World, Smash, Kart, Bayonetta 2), I hope it does start doing better. Rumors are that the new bundles in the US are selling really well, we'll see how that actually turns out.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: teck on November 07, 2013, 01:48:06 pm
I'm more concerned with 3rd party support however....
Meh. The last time Nintendo had truly solid 3rd party support was 17 years ago. They've carried their last 3 systems with their own games almost exclusively, and they'll probably be doing it again with the Wii U.
The Wii U is a nice system though and already has quite a few really good games (Pikmin, Wonderful 101, Sonic Lost World) and a lot of great stuff upcoming (Zelda, Mario 3D World, Smash, Kart, Bayonetta 2), I hope it does start doing better. Rumors are that the new bundles in the US are selling really well, we'll see how that actually turns out.
That may be true, but my top 5 favorite games on EVERY nintendo system ever have all been 3rd party, right down to the Wii U and Gamecube.... So at least for me, they need to at least have decent 3rd party support because my wii selection without things like No More Heroes 1/2, Pandora's Tower, Last Story, Fragile Dreams, etc; I would be quite unhappy.... Can't survive on Smash and Metroid Trilogy alone....
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 15, 2013, 03:44:27 pm
Meh. The last time Nintendo had truly solid 3rd party support was 17 years ago. They've carried their last 3 systems with their own games almost exclusively, and they'll probably be doing it again with the Wii U.
I wish more people would acknowledge this, though I would go even further and say they've been lacking in this area since the N64. Too often, I see people cite stuff like MadWorld or Batman as some kind of rebuttal, and it just doesn't wash when compared with the deluge of choices available on PlayStation and Xbox.
That said, Bayonetta 2 has me frothing at the mouth. WANT.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 16, 2013, 07:22:47 pm
Meh. The last time Nintendo had truly solid 3rd party support was 17 years ago. They've carried their last 3 systems with their own games almost exclusively, and they'll probably be doing it again with the Wii U.
I wish more people would acknowledge this, though I would go even further and say they've been lacking in this area since the N64. Too often, I see people cite stuff like MadWorld or Batman as some kind of rebuttal, and it just doesn't wash when compared with the deluge of choices available on PlayStation and Xbox.
That said, Bayonetta 2 has me frothing at the mouth. WANT.
they had rare in the N64 era though, but they were 2nd party.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 16, 2013, 07:39:45 pm
A handful of companies giving a tiny sliver of support, especially if the games are side-entries in a series or lightly modified ports, isn't the same as having a strong third-party library, though. This is a problem that they've been struggling with for a very long time now, and they don't seem to be making progress in turning that around.
What's so sad about that is that they do an absolutely fantastic job of it with handhelds, but then, they've also done a much better job of creating handhelds that are really alluring to developers in terms of cost and risk. Yokoi's philosophy of utilizing cheap, outdated hardware works great in that capacity, but it doesn't hold up very well when applied to modern console development, especially now that most companies are firmly committed to creating multiplatform games.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: blipcs76 on November 17, 2013, 02:50:47 am
Nintendo consoles are worth buying for the 1st party titles alone. That being said, that doesn't make it a well-rounded all-ages/all-levels console it needs to be. Nintendo seems to think that they'll magically get 3rd party support, but it's been dwindling each generation. Wii had more support, but mostly from companies pushing garbage like Imagine Babies and M&M Racing. There were a handful of core 3rd party titles (stuff like Madworld, No More Heroes, Muramasa, The Conduit, Silent Hill Shattered Memories), but they were few and far between.
The WiiU is suffering from lack of games. Nintendo isn't getting their titles to market quickly enough and 3rd party devs are at best throwing scraps to the WiiU. Nintendo really needs to up their game if they want to continue to be competitive -- their online features are a joke compared to the user-friendly and modern systems that are standard on PS/XB consoles. Their console uses underpowered hardware and obsolete architecture. The WiiU is simply not an attractive platform to Western developers, and Nintendo desperately needs game that cater to more than Nintendo fanboys. They can only carry Nintendo so far.
Imagine how well the WiiU would be received if it was getting day 1 ports of popular games like GTA, Fallout, Bioshock, Borderlands, etc. Western developers are what is driving the modern game market and Nintendo can't seem to get a second look from any of them other than Ubisoft (who seems to be quickly abandoning the WiiU).
I love Nintendo, but they're either too naive, too stubborn, or too cocky to do what needs to be done to court 3rd parties.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: burningdoom on November 17, 2013, 01:09:11 pm
Nintendo consoles are worth buying for the 1st party titles alone. That being said, that doesn't make it a well-rounded all-ages/all-levels console it needs to be. Nintendo seems to think that they'll magically get 3rd party support, but it's been dwindling each generation. Wii had more support, but mostly from companies pushing garbage like Imagine Babies and M&M Racing. There were a handful of core 3rd party titles (stuff like Madworld, No More Heroes, Muramasa, The Conduit, Silent Hill Shattered Memories), but they were few and far between.
The WiiU is suffering from lack of games. Nintendo isn't getting their titles to market quickly enough and 3rd party devs are at best throwing scraps to the WiiU. Nintendo really needs to up their game if they want to continue to be competitive -- their online features are a joke compared to the user-friendly and modern systems that are standard on PS/XB consoles. Their console uses underpowered hardware and obsolete architecture. The WiiU is simply not an attractive platform to Western developers, and Nintendo desperately needs game that cater to more than Nintendo fanboys. They can only carry Nintendo so far.
Imagine how well the WiiU would be received if it was getting day 1 ports of popular games like GTA, Fallout, Bioshock, Borderlands, etc. Western developers are what is driving the modern game market and Nintendo can't seem to get a second look from any of them other than Ubisoft (who seems to be quickly abandoning the WiiU).
I love Nintendo, but they're either too naive, too stubborn, or too cocky to do what needs to be done to court 3rd parties.
Everything you're saying is true. But it's also the same story the N64 and GameCube had. And both of those systems are now highly-regarded and highly collectible.
Nintendo first-party titles are good enough to sell a system on their own. And N64 and GameCube are testaments to this fact. However, that's not to say it wouldn't be nice for Nintendo to have a good amount of third-party support again.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 17, 2013, 04:11:03 pm
Western versions of Japanese games suck because they are censored here in North America. Even Zelda and Pokémon are too. don't comment on this if you haven't played a Japanese version of a Japanese game.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: redblaze57 on November 17, 2013, 07:25:45 pm
Western versions of Japanese games suck because they are censored here in North America. Even Zelda and Pokémon are too. don't comment on this if you haven't played a Japanese version of a Japanese game.
No More Heroes JAP= Censored NA= Uncensored
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 18, 2013, 08:27:55 am
Western versions of Japanese games suck because they are censored here in North America. Even Zelda and Pokémon are too. don't comment on this if you haven't played a Japanese version of a Japanese game.
No More Heroes JAP= Censored NA= Uncensored
most games we get in NA are censored that are from Japan. I don't know about No More Heroes.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 19, 2013, 03:51:05 pm
Everything you're saying is true. But it's also the same story the N64 and GameCube had. And both of those systems are now highly-regarded and highly collectible.
Nintendo first-party titles are good enough to sell a system on their own. And N64 and GameCube are testaments to this fact. However, that's not to say it wouldn't be nice for Nintendo to have a good amount of third-party support again.
Highly regarded as they might be in some circles, sales-wise, both fell far short of their competitors in terms of sales figures:
N64: 32.93 million worldwide GameCube: 21.97 million worldwide
If the Wii U continues as it has been, and the system sticks around for roughly 7 years, you're looking at maybe 27 million in sales during a time when both the US and Japanse economies are in the tank. These are not positive figues.
You could cite the Wii as an example of success across the board, but that system rode almost entirey on the Tickle Me Emo novelty of owning one. My aunt has one and a copy of Wii Sports, as does my office, but neither of them buy games, and that's been the experience of many. So it might have been successful, but it's not the kind that's sustainable or has any momentum behind it to carry them into the next gen, except to staunch the bleeding with leftover profits.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: burningdoom on November 19, 2013, 06:41:32 pm
Everything you're saying is true. But it's also the same story the N64 and GameCube had. And both of those systems are now highly-regarded and highly collectible.
Nintendo first-party titles are good enough to sell a system on their own. And N64 and GameCube are testaments to this fact. However, that's not to say it wouldn't be nice for Nintendo to have a good amount of third-party support again.
Highly regarded as they might be in some circles, sales-wise, both fell far short of their competitors in terms of sales figures:
N64: 32.93 million worldwide GameCube: 21.97 million worldwide
If the Wii U continues as it has been, and the system sticks around for roughly 7 years, you're looking at maybe 27 million in sales during a time when both the US and Japanse economies are in the tank. These are not positive figues.
You could cite the Wii as an example of success across the board, but that system rode almost entirey on the Tickle Me Emo novelty of owning one. My aunt has one and a copy of Wii Sports, as does my office, but neither of them buy games, and that's been the experience of many. So it might have been successful, but it's not the kind that's sustainable or has any momentum behind it to carry them into the next gen, except to staunch the bleeding with leftover profits.
Nintendo is not just for the "tickle me elmo" audience. Our versions of Japanese games are shit.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: sin2beta on November 19, 2013, 10:55:52 pm
Western versions of Japanese games suck because they are censored here in North America. Even Zelda and Pokémon are too. don't comment on this if you haven't played a Japanese version of a Japanese game.
It took me a while to realize what your post was referring to. But I think I figured it out. The only mention of the Japanese market before this was 1) WiiU sales increasing from WiiU Party an 2) western developed games are driving the market.
1) May be true. I'm not sure. But I don't think WiiU Party will drive sales in the west for the holidays. I feel pretty confident with that. The big things they had were Zelda and Pikmin. They're out. It will get a natural bump from the holidays, but that is it.
2) You can have your opinions on quality of games and censorship. But the point is moot. The fact remains that game development has become very western centric in volume, sales, and influence. That's not an issue of opinion. I will use the quote from the most recent episode of retronauts:
Quote
So what did we discuss while we were in Japan? Well, Japan. Specifically, I put the question to everyone: What was the golden age of Japanese games? Each contributor had a different response, and the result was a pretty interesting (if overly nostalgic) conversation. Responses range from the mid ’80s to the late ’90s; sadly, no one wanted to go to bat for the past couple of console generations.
People often talk about how hardware is becoming more and more PC like. Few people mention that the software is as well. Hell, JRPGs used to be the biggest thing. But the biggest RPG seems to be a very western Skyrim. 15 years ago, I would not have guessed that the JRPG would be dethroned by a western RPG in terms of popularity. Japanese games may still be good. Sadly, they just aren't as important as they used to be.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: ConsoleGeek on November 23, 2013, 05:56:22 pm
Even with all the hype around the PS4 and XBone I do think the Wii U will see a nice increase in sales this holiday season. It'll be the only console people can actually walk into a store and pick up plus it's cheaper and comes with a pack-in game.
I personally just bought one about a month ago when they starting including the Mario/Lugi game bundle.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: soera on November 23, 2013, 10:45:11 pm
I think that since there are now actual Wii U commercials playing on TV, the sales will pick up some during the holidays. Especially if people realize its the only console of the 3 thats backwards compatible.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: sin2beta on November 24, 2013, 06:13:55 pm
I think that since there are now actual Wii U commercials playing on TV, the sales will pick up some during the holidays. Especially if people realize its the only console of the 3 thats backwards compatible.
I actually will start to agree with this. I was in my comic shop today and Adventure Time was playing in the background. I was shocked when I heard a WiiU commercial. Kudos Nintendo.
Plus, Mario 3D world looks insanely fun. I had a blast watching the Giant Bomb quick look of it.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on November 24, 2013, 09:09:23 pm
I think that since there are now actual Wii U commercials playing on TV, the sales will pick up some during the holidays. Especially if people realize its the only console of the 3 thats backwards compatible.
I actually will start to agree with this. I was in my comic shop today and Adventure Time was playing in the background. I was shocked when I heard a WiiU commercial. Kudos Nintendo.
Plus, Mario 3D world looks insanely fun. I had a blast watching the Giant Bomb quick look of it.
Should have done it a year ago, but nintendo can fix their mistakes.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 25, 2013, 01:44:30 am
They've been repeating many of the same mistakes for decades, so I'm rather doubtful. I was about to type something very different here as to why, but just noticed something interesting while trying to look up someon's name on Wikipedia.
Has has anyone ever noticed that over the last couple gens, there's an almost excessive amount of support and reliance on 'hardcore' titles from Miyamoto's EAD groups (Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, etc), and a comparatively tiny amount given to the SPD division (Metroid, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, etc.)? I can't help but think that there's a distinct divide between the two, wherein Miyamoto's projects and areas he oversees are given maybe a little too much focus and budget, while SPD is often relegated to churning out cheesy party games, with only the rare 'big' title like Metroid Prime or Fire Emblem: Awakening. Donkey Kong seems to be an exception... and it was created by Miyamoto.
It's kind of interesting, because when I look over what each group has been doing, the SPD studios put out more stuff that appeals to people who maybe aren't so interested in the more archetypically Nintendo series... but they get a fraction of the support to pursue those games? Very strange.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: blipcs76 on November 25, 2013, 10:56:39 am
They've been repeating many of the same mistakes for decades, so I'm rather doubtful. I was about to type something very different here as to why, but just noticed something interesting while trying to look up someon's name on Wikipedia.
Has has anyone ever noticed that over the last couple gens, there's an almost excessive amount of support and reliance on 'hardcore' titles from Miyamoto's EAD groups (Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, etc), and a comparatively tiny amount given to the SPD division (Metroid, Fire Emblem, Advance Wars, etc.)? I can't help but think that there's a distinct divide between the two, wherein Miyamoto's projects and areas he oversees are given maybe a little too much focus and budget, while SPD is often relegated to churning out cheesy party games, with only the rare 'big' title like Metroid Prime or Fire Emblem: Awakening. Donkey Kong seems to be an exception... and it was created by Miyamoto.
It's kind of interesting, because when I look over what each group has been doing, the SPD studios put out more stuff that appeals to people who maybe aren't so interested in the more archetypically Nintendo series... but they get a fraction of the support to pursue those games? Very strange.
I think this is because Nintendo is terrified to step outside of the box. First party titles that venture outside of the safe and comfortable franchises often don't do well. Conker's Bad Fur Day was Nintendo's first attempt to court a more mature audience and it was a flop. Other titles like Geist and Odama were also pretty big failures. Nintendo is afraid to take chances on anything that's not already an established franchise and by doing so continues to paint themselves into a corner. Funding the publishing of Bayonetta 2 is definitely a step in the right direction, but more in that vein is needed. XB/PS fans will not buy a WiiU just to play Bayonetta 2.
It's pretty obvious what modern core gamers want, but Nintendo is too timid and afraid to tarnish their family-friendly image so they continue to play it safe. The thing is, some fresh ideas with even existing IPs could show Nintendo is still relevant. Put Captain Falcon or the Fire Emblem characters in a Devil May Cry/Ninja Gaiden style action game. Turn Mach Rider into an open world Mad Max-style GTA clone. Finally turn Pokemon and Animal Crossing into the MMOs they absolutely need to be. Release a new Starfox game that is new stages released as episodic content. Develop the Operation Hammer game they teased for the Wii. There are countless things Nintendo can do to remain familiar but still show they have fresh, original and fun ideas.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: sin2beta on November 25, 2013, 10:17:51 pm
I can't help but think that most of the feelings of Nintendo failing come from people that the console isn't targeting. I started wondering this because, the Wii came in first last generation. In most metrics it was the biggest success last generation. But the "core" gaming community calls it a failure. This begs two questions 1) Is that really the "core" gamer or just an aging demographic? 2) Do they just personally not find the system appealing?
I know for me, I'm the second part. I just don't like Nintendo stuff that much anymore. It's not for me. And I have to wonder if the WiiU is suffering the same problem. Nintendo has done pretty well with small numbers of console sales for a while. In one year the WiiU has done approximately 20% of the sales the GameCube has. That's not the worst thing ever.
But the point of tis post is, even if the WiiU sales skyrocket, they won't be considered a success. The Wii proves that. So, I am forced to look at the opposite end of the spectrum, do it's current sales mark it as a failure. I certainly don't think so.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: tpugmire on November 25, 2013, 11:08:05 pm
I think you are exactly right. The Wii U isn't for everyone. Judging from the recent launch numbers of the PS4 and Xbox One, those two consoles are targeting a different audience altogether. That isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm in the opposite camp, I really enjoyed the Wii, and I'm enjoying the Wii U as well. I've owned my Xbox 360 for almost 2 years, and only own like 4 games for it. Nothing interests me at all about the PS4 or Xbox One. Different strokes for different folks...
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: scott on November 25, 2013, 11:16:03 pm
It's like me and my one friend. He is huge into the Wii U and I am more interested in what the PS4 has to offer. But, he has a family as well and I'm the only gamer in my household.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 27, 2013, 11:56:47 pm
I can't help but think that most of the feelings of Nintendo failing come from people that the console isn't targeting. I started wondering this because, the Wii came in first last generation. In most metrics it was the biggest success last generation. But the "core" gaming community calls it a failure. This begs two questions 1) Is that really the "core" gamer or just an aging demographic? 2) Do they just personally not find the system appealing?
I know for me, I'm the second part. I just don't like Nintendo stuff that much anymore. It's not for me. And I have to wonder if the WiiU is suffering the same problem. Nintendo has done pretty well with small numbers of console sales for a while. In one year the WiiU has done approximately 20% of the sales the GameCube has. That's not the worst thing ever.
But the point of tis post is, even if the WiiU sales skyrocket, they won't be considered a success. The Wii proves that. So, I am forced to look at the opposite end of the spectrum, do it's current sales mark it as a failure. I certainly don't think so.
There's a lot of chatter about how Nintendo isn't targeting the same audience, but I think this argument dodges the fact that they desperately need to start. Consoles are just a platform, after all. Framing their failures as just a question of demographics is still indicative of an inability to create one that's compelling for more than bottom-feeding shovelware and first-party titles.
More importantly, the core gaming community largely consists of people who grew up with Nintendo and Sega. We've all gotten older sure, but I think most hardcore gamers tend to be drawn toward the same general types of games they liked when they were younger. I was mostly interested in stuff like RPGs, action-adventure games, fighting games, and beat 'em ups, and that hasn't really changed, and I think most hardocre gamers tend to gravitate toward games that echo what they liked when they were younger.
The fundamental problem is that Nintendo has steadily turned away from those core gamers who maybe weren't so interested in Mario, but loved the same types of games that I did, and that really started with the N64. I was about 16 when that came out, and I remember being enticed by Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Perfect Dark, GoldenEye, and Ogre Battle 64. Literally, only 5 games. Looking back on it now, in my 30s, and those are still the only N64 games I have even the slightest interest in.
This is pretty much the exact same problem that many people are running into with the Wii U. Nintendo can target whatever they like, but unless they're expecting millions of people's tastes to be a 1:1 perfect match with what their marketing department has conceived, they're going to be struggling to find an audience... and a lot of those people want a lot more than a tiny handful of games when they're shelling out $250-300.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: burningdoom on November 28, 2013, 01:41:31 pm
But Nintendo isn't failing, by any means. ???
Just because they aren't catering to the Shooter or JRPG crowds, doesn't mean they're failing. The Wii was a unprecedented success, as was the DS and now the 3DS. Admittedly, the Wii U needs to gain some steam. But that's pretty much how all Nintendo consoles start. And with the game releases Nintendo is putting out just recently, I'm sure that steam will gain fast this Christmas season and into the next year.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 28, 2013, 04:50:09 pm
Just because they aren't catering to the Shooter or JRPG crowds, doesn't mean they're failing. The Wii was a unprecedented success, as was the DS and now the 3DS. Admittedly, the Wii U needs to gain some steam. But that's pretty much how all Nintendo consoles start. And with the game releases Nintendo is putting out just recently, I'm sure that steam will gain fast this Christmas season and into the next year.
You're cherry-picking a bit here. There are a large number of genres not being addressed on the Wii U, and among those that do have some presence, there isn't much in the way of variety. The rare exceptions are mostly ports of games that were already released, or inferior to their PS3/360 counterparts.
I've already rambled on at length about the Wii and their handheld strategies.
It'll be interesting to look back at this discussion a year from now, though...
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: kingrat101 on November 28, 2013, 05:47:21 pm
In all honesty the PS4 and Xbox one don't seem to have a whole lot of "Next-Gen" stuff lined up. A lot of the games that are released and going to be released on them are also released and going to be released on the PS3 and 360. To me this next gen seems like it's going to have a slow start no matter what system you choose
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: sin2beta on November 28, 2013, 09:25:30 pm
In all honesty the PS4 and Xbox one don't seem to have a whole lot of "Next-Gen" stuff lined up. A lot of the games that are released and going to be released on them are also released and going to be released on the PS3 and 360. To me this next gen seems like it's going to have a slow start no matter what system you choose
I'd second this. There were moments where I was tempted to pick up a next gen system at launch. But after watching the Awesome Video Games and Giant Bomb launch specials, I don't think I'm missing much.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on November 28, 2013, 10:56:33 pm
In all honesty the PS4 and Xbox one don't seem to have a whole lot of "Next-Gen" stuff lined up. A lot of the games that are released and going to be released on them are also released and going to be released on the PS3 and 360. To me this next gen seems like it's going to have a slow start no matter what system you choose
I'd second this. There were moments where I was tempted to pick up a next gen system at launch. But after watching the Awesome Video Games and Giant Bomb launch specials, I don't think I'm missing much.
I'm glad I'm not the only one. I was pumped for the 360 when it came out. I searched the world for one. This generation, not so much.
I honestly thought this was the time I had given up on gaming. I had finally gotten too old for games. I thought it was the equivalent of my parents VCR blinking 12:00. Yeah, they have a VCR.
The more folks talk about it, the more I realize there just isn't as much to get excited about.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: soera on November 28, 2013, 11:10:12 pm
I am in the agreement here too. Graphics are at the point where improvements are going to be almost unnoticeable. I really dont see much difference in any of the latest gen systems compared to last gen systems other than the silly bonuses such as voice command, touch screen, and share buttons which are all pointless to me. I will eventually get a PS4 and a Wii U when the time comes that the price is too good to refuse and/or that game I just have to have is coming out for it.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on November 28, 2013, 11:55:18 pm
Of all the new "features" this generation, I really think the WiiU's touchscreen has the most potential. I enjoy the shit out of it. Voice commands don't work for me. I have a bit of an accent. Apparently no one expected an Arkansan to use Kinect or Siri or automated phone services. As for all the media stuff that the Xbone will do, I already have a satellite box. Just let me play games.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 29, 2013, 12:08:20 am
I get into these cynical moods about gaming sometimes, but at the same time, I'm not sure what anyone was expecting. New consoles don't usually offer much beyond a bump to the graphics and maybe some slight improvements to the controller...
I disagree on the visual upgrades being unnoticeable, though. Improved processing for physics and particle effects alone makes a huge difference for games that rely heavily on atmosphere and environment, and I'm betting that stuff like Uncharted, The Witcher 3, and Metal Gear Solid V are going to benefit in a big way from that.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: burningdoom on November 29, 2013, 12:53:46 am
I am in the agreement here too. Graphics are at the point where improvements are going to be almost unnoticeable. I really dont see much difference in any of the latest gen systems compared to last gen systems other than the silly bonuses such as voice command, touch screen, and share buttons which are all pointless to me. I will eventually get a PS4 and a Wii U when the time comes that the price is too good to refuse and/or that game I just have to have is coming out for it.
The one thing graphics could really improve on, is that slick or wet look that graphics have nowadays. If they could do something about that, then modern graphics truly would look realistic.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on November 29, 2013, 01:37:02 am
I'm still pining for better lighting, too. That excessive yellowish bloom-glare effect thing that basically just turns textures into an opaque blob always bugs me. Rage, faults aside, had probably some of the most natural lighting I've ever seen, but most games don't hit even near that.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: stuntman64 on December 10, 2013, 06:40:01 pm
I think people are now seeing that the wiiu is a worthy purchase.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 11, 2013, 03:16:21 am
Is the only difference between a Wii and a WiiU the fact that it's basically a hand held console? Can you still play the Wii U on the television?
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: jobocan on December 11, 2013, 08:10:54 am
Is the only difference between a Wii and a WiiU the fact that it's basically a hand held console? Can you still play the Wii U on the television?
The Wii U is a new console, which is stronger than the PS3/360. Of course it can be played on TV, what led you to believe it can't? It's not a handheld.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 11, 2013, 10:09:41 am
Is the only difference between a Wii and a WiiU the fact that it's basically a hand held console? Can you still play the Wii U on the television?
The Wii U is a new console, which is stronger than the PS3/360. Of course it can be played on TV, what led you to believe it can't? It's not a handheld.
Every commercial or ad for the Wii U that I seen, shows a kid sitting on a couch playing the Wii U while his parents are watching television. It had the game on the screen like a game boy. This is why I never even paid too much attention to the Wii U. All the commercials shows a screen on a controller being held in someones hand. I did not see the point of it because of this. I take it I am wrong...
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 11, 2013, 11:05:57 am
Is the only difference between a Wii and a WiiU the fact that it's basically a hand held console? Can you still play the Wii U on the television?
The Wii U is a new console, which is stronger than the PS3/360. Of course it can be played on TV, what led you to believe it can't? It's not a handheld.
Every commercial or ad for the Wii U that I seen, shows a kid sitting on a couch playing the Wii U while his parents are watching television. It had the game on the screen like a game boy. This is why I never even paid too much attention to the Wii U. All the commercials shows a screen on a controller being held in someones hand. I did not see the point of it because of this. I take it I am wrong...
This is a good place to point out how bad Nintendo's Marketing Dept failed. The commericals this Christmas should have been out last Christmas.
To answer your question, the WiiU is a new system. It's not as strong as the XBone and PS4, but more powerful than the 360 and PS3. Most games can be played on the gamepad's touch screen and/or the TV. I really like that selling point. The Boy plays a lot of Skylanders and Mario while I play 360 or watch TV. It really works out.
Oh, and it's awesome. Everyone needs one. It's my choice this console cycle.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on December 11, 2013, 03:59:17 pm
It's not as strong as the XBone and PS4, but more powerful than the 360 and PS3.
Just for the sake of accuracy, that's not entirely true. The Wii U utilizes a 45nm 1.24GHz tri-core PowerPC CPU, and is relatively similar to the 360's CPU, but about half the speed. It does have a larger cache available (sort of), and the GPU has considerably more memory available, but the lower clock creates a pretty substantial bottleneck.
Not sure what the instructions per clock are off-hand on the 360, but it doesn't really matter - while the "ghz doesn't matter anymore" saying is largely true these days, it's only applicable up to a point, like compaing a 2.8GHz AMD to a 3.2GHz Intel. A gap this large across a related system architecture is a noticeable one.
There's a 1.2MB L2 cache for one of the cores, but the other two can only access 512KB, which creates another bottleneck.
The sole area the Wii U is wildly better is in the available memory, which is a good thing to have, but the system takes a beating with anything that's CPU intensive, like particle effects, fill rate (think games like Zone of the Endes for a real world case), etc.
The PS3 is a bit tougher comparison, since the Cell architecture is wildly different than a PowerPC, but generally speaking, the Wii U would do worse with any games that were not specifically designed for multi-core processing and anti-aliasing. The PS3 doesn't do great with them either (Mass Effect is a good example), but its single physical core would do better than the one on the Wii U for those types of games.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 11, 2013, 05:55:56 pm
It's not as strong as the XBone and PS4, but more powerful than the 360 and PS3.
Just for the sake of accuracy, that's not entirely true. The Wii U utilizes a 45nm 1.24GHz tri-core PowerPC CPU, and is relatively similar to the 360's CPU, but about half the speed. It does have a larger cache available (sort of), and the GPU has considerably more memory available, but the lower clock creates a pretty substantial bottleneck.
Not sure what the instructions per clock are off-hand on the 360, but it doesn't really matter - while the "ghz doesn't matter anymore" saying is largely true these days, it's only applicable up to a point, like compaing a 2.8GHz AMD to a 3.2GHz Intel. A gap this large across a related system architecture is a noticeable one.
There's a 1.2MB L2 cache for one of the cores, but the other two can only access 512KB, which creates another bottleneck.
The sole area the Wii U is wildly better is in the available memory, which is a good thing to have, but the system takes a beating with anything that's CPU intensive, like particle effects, fill rate (think games like Zone of the Endes for a real world case), etc.
The PS3 is a bit tougher comparison, since the Cell architecture is wildly different than a PowerPC, but generally speaking, the Wii U would do worse with any games that were not specifically designed for multi-core processing and anti-aliasing. The PS3 doesn't do great with them either (Mass Effect is a good example), but its single physical core would do better than the one on the Wii U for those types of games.
Thanks for the technical details lol. I am now kind of interested more about the WiiU. I actually want to get one now, I just thought it was a straight hand held console before so I did not want it. A lot of friends I have dont even know you can just play it on the tv. Poor marketing by NIntendo.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 11, 2013, 08:30:05 pm
My bad....
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 12, 2013, 02:11:55 am
Turf, you are doing a good job of convincing me to put one on my wish list. Is it very cartoonie like the Wii. Like some sports and other games seems cartoonish on the Wii. If it not, is it still good for other games other than sports? Like Sonic or Zelda?
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 12, 2013, 06:10:04 am
I was looking at the stock photo for the console box of the Wii U. Am I correct to believe the drive looking Wii part in the background is the actual console, and the part with the screen is the controller???? This photo also is a reason I believed it was just a portable Wii because the background thing looks like a Wii to me.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 12, 2013, 08:31:14 am
That's right. The touch screen doo-dad is the controller, or Gamepad if you work at Nintendo. The console is a sleek, black. Box of goodness. As far as games, I have New Super Mario Bros that I love, Sonic All-Star Racing Transformed, NBA 2K13, Skylanders: Giants, and Nintendoland. It's a cool console. Nintendo land is kind of a tech demo for the system. Think Wii Sports but not fun. You're not missing anything if you skip it.
I really want Wonderful 101, Wind Waker, and Mario 3D World. Then when DK, Smash Bros, and Mario Kart come out, I'll be set for a while.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: blipcs76 on December 12, 2013, 11:28:12 am
Thanks for the technical details lol. I am now kind of interested more about the WiiU. I actually want to get one now, I just thought it was a straight hand held console before so I did not want it. A lot of friends I have dont even know you can just play it on the tv. Poor marketing by NIntendo.
The marketing for the Wii U has been absolutely horrible. People don't know it's a standalone console, they either think it's a peripheral for the old Wii or a handheld. Even their new commercials don't stress that it's a brand new, standalone console.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 12, 2013, 11:55:37 am
I will have to say that controller reminds me of a Sega Game Gear and looks like a 75 dollar controller. I just hope I would never drop it on accident and break it because replacements must be expensive
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: soera on December 12, 2013, 12:09:00 pm
Its a lot more than $70 to replace. :o
Its a cool system. I have one at the house right now while the church Im the game master of is on its Christmas break (the program that uses the PS4/WiiU and all my other systems at the church follows the school schedule so its not going to be going on for 3-4 weeks and I wanted to bring the system to the house to initialize it with my Club Nintendo account and get all the updates for it). My kids will be playing SMBU while Im watching TV. Its one of the coolest aspects of the machine for me.
I will probably buy my own system in the future. I really like it. And that game pad isnt nearly as uncomfortable as you may assume.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 12, 2013, 02:45:24 pm
I will have to say that controller reminds me of a Sega Game Gear and looks like a 75 dollar controller. I just hope I would never drop it on accident and break it because replacements must be expensive
It must be tough. Mine has survived a year with a 3/4 year old. It's been dropped more than once and still looks new.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: disgaeniac on December 12, 2013, 02:54:09 pm
(Sung/Hummed to the tune of "Stuck in the Middle With You") -
Sony's to the left of me, MS is to the right...here I am stuck in the middle Wii U
;)
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on December 12, 2013, 03:40:05 pm
The marketing for the Wii U has been absolutely horrible. People don't know it's a standalone console, they either think it's a peripheral for the old Wii or a handheld. Even their new commercials don't stress that it's a brand new, standalone console.
I still run into people who ask what the thing even is, usually from casual gamers like coworkers. Even after I say, "it's a new console" they're like, "so, do you need a Wii to use it, or...?" They really should've come up with a completely different name to address the fact that a large portion of their audience isn't the type that keeps up on gaming news.
Most of those same people don't know anything about the controller either, so even after explaining that it's a completely new, standalone console, they don't understand what its selling point is supposed to be. When I say that it has better graphics and you can still play Wii games on it, you can literally watch their eyes glaze over in disinterest.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 12, 2013, 03:46:33 pm
The marketing for the Wii U has been absolutely horrible. People don't know it's a standalone console, they either think it's a peripheral for the old Wii or a handheld. Even their new commercials don't stress that it's a brand new, standalone console.
I still run into people who ask what the thing even is, usually from casual gamers like coworkers. Even after I say, "it's a new console" they're like, "so, do you need a Wii to use it, or...?" They really should've come up with a completely different name to address the fact that a large portion of their audience isn't the type that keeps up on gaming news.
Most of those same people don't know anything about the controller either, so even after explaining that it's a completely new, standalone console, they don't understand what its selling point is supposed to be. When I say that it has better graphics and you can still play Wii games on it, you can literally watch their eyes glaze over in disinterest.
This is true but me personally, I don't consider myself a casual gamer. I game ever day! lol. But I guess for me, I was planning on getting an actual Wii but not immediately (still dont have one) so when I first heard of the WiiU and I seen the commercials, I assumed it as a portable Wii that I did not want so I never kept up with it after that. And that was actually about a year ago now. This is all new news for me and I feel stupid for having the completely wrong idea of the Wii U. When I worked at wal mart a year ago in electronics, customer bought wii or anything related to a wii every day but I cannot remember a single sale of a Wii U or a game for it. Customers never even asked to see a game out the case or ask any questions about. Nor the employees who were die hard gamers.
I have always loved Nintendo (my first love behind Sega) and support them, but I will admit, they have dropped the ball on the marketing and promotion for the Wii U because I know a hand full of gamers off the top of my head who dont have one and who think its a portable console. I got to properly educate them. I am still shocked tho' that this whole time, I have been completely wrong about it as a gamer and collector :-[
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: soera on December 12, 2013, 05:08:23 pm
I wonder if they did it on purpose. I heard recently that Nintendo is wanting to go the way of SEGA and just creating games without bothering with consoles. Can you imagine Mario/Mega man/Metroid/Zelda on a system like the PS4? If this does happen, whoever ends up getting Nintendo as their 3rd party exclusive will for sure win the console wars. And seeing as Playstation already has a leg up on Microshaft as far as portables, it would make sense if they chose Sony.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 12, 2013, 05:36:56 pm
I wonder if they did it on purpose. I heard recently that Nintendo is wanting to go the way of SEGA and just creating games without bothering with consoles. Can you imagine Mario/Mega man/Metroid/Zelda on a system like the PS4? If this does happen, whoever ends up getting Nintendo as their 3rd party exclusive will for sure win the console wars. And seeing as Playstation already has a leg up on Microshaft as far as portables, it would make sense if they chose Sony.
Nintendo won't be going software only any time soon. They are trying what have always done: put a new spin on old tech. Marketing dropped the ball this time.
What I think (my own damn theory, so get off my back) is so many people bought the Wii and didn't play it long term, they didn't have an interest in a new console. Nintendo blew their casual gaming wad with the Wii. Not everyone enjoys games. Nintendo failed to realize that they hadn't created gamers. They created a toy that Grandma wanted to play. Wii Sports was fun. Everyone thought so for a while. Now that Wii is in the closet. "I bought a Wii and haven't played it in years. Why would I need a new one?"
Nintendo needs to market to the 3DS crowd and not worry about Grandma. That's who makes cash. Mom buys Little Timmy a new system at Christmas. Mom doesn't have any interest this time around.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: haloofthesun on December 12, 2013, 05:56:05 pm
I wonder if they did it on purpose. I heard recently that Nintendo is wanting to go the way of SEGA and just creating games without bothering with consoles. Can you imagine Mario/Mega man/Metroid/Zelda on a system like the PS4? If this does happen, whoever ends up getting Nintendo as their 3rd party exclusive will for sure win the console wars. And seeing as Playstation already has a leg up on Microshaft as far as portables, it would make sense if they chose Sony.
That's not true. Nintendo has said several times recently that if their consoles were to fail then that would be the end of Nintendo. They're in the hardware business until they can no longer sustain themselves. They will not go third party.
Of course, they won't fail, at least for a long time.
What I think (my own damn theory, so get off my back) is so many people bought the Wii and didn't play it long term, they didn't have an interest in a new console. Nintendo blew their casual gaming wad with the Wii. Not everyone enjoys games. Nintendo failed to realize that they hadn't created gamers. They created a toy that Grandma wanted to play. Wii Sports was fun. Everyone thought so for a while. Now that Wii is in the closet. "I bought a Wii and haven't played it in years. Why would I need a new one?"
Nintendo needs to market to the 3DS crowd and not worry about Grandma. That's who makes cash. Mom buys Little Timmy a new system at Christmas. Mom doesn't have any interest this time around.
I agree, but you can't blame them too much for trying to recreate their massive sales from last gen. They sold so many Wiis, it would be bad business practice to not try and follow up on that. Of course, the Wii's success was because of a gimmick and that just isn't going to last. I think after the Wii U, Nintendo will realize this and that will be the end of the Wii line of consoles. They've started taking small steps to get back on good terms with non-casual gamers, hopefully they'll pick up the pace on that a bit.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: karyann on December 12, 2013, 07:53:46 pm
I'm just writing in-between the "Wii U problem" posts to mention that I actually enjoy Nintendo Land! Of course I wouldn't spend 50 hours on it, but it has already had a better longevity to me than Wii Sports, and I'm not even bored of it yet. It's a lot of fun alone, and it's a different fun with people. I love that the experience changes with other players, and there are a lot of games too, so you can alternate that too.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 12, 2013, 08:16:33 pm
I'm just writing in-between the "Wii U problem" posts to mention that I actually enjoy Nintendo Land! Of course I wouldn't spend 50 hours on it, but it has already had a better longevity to me than Wii Sports, and I'm not even bored of it yet. It's a lot of fun alone, and it's a different fun with people. I love that the experience changes with other players, and there are a lot of games too, so you can alternate that too.
I liked the Yoshi game. It was fun, for a minute. Nintendo land just didn't do much for me. I liked Wii Sports a whole lot more.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 12, 2013, 08:28:46 pm
I wonder if they did it on purpose. I heard recently that Nintendo is wanting to go the way of SEGA and just creating games without bothering with consoles. Can you imagine Mario/Mega man/Metroid/Zelda on a system like the PS4? If this does happen, whoever ends up getting Nintendo as their 3rd party exclusive will for sure win the console wars. And seeing as Playstation already has a leg up on Microshaft as far as portables, it would make sense if they chose Sony.
That's not true. Nintendo has said several times recently that if their consoles were to fail then that would be the end of Nintendo. They're in the hardware business until they can no longer sustain themselves. They will not go third party.
Of course, they won't fail, at least for a long time.
What I think (my own damn theory, so get off my back) is so many people bought the Wii and didn't play it long term, they didn't have an interest in a new console. Nintendo blew their casual gaming wad with the Wii. Not everyone enjoys games. Nintendo failed to realize that they hadn't created gamers. They created a toy that Grandma wanted to play. Wii Sports was fun. Everyone thought so for a while. Now that Wii is in the closet. "I bought a Wii and haven't played it in years. Why would I need a new one?"
Nintendo needs to market to the 3DS crowd and not worry about Grandma. That's who makes cash. Mom buys Little Timmy a new system at Christmas. Mom doesn't have any interest this time around.
I agree, but you can't blame them too much for trying to recreate their massive sales from last gen. They sold so many Wiis, it would be bad business practice to not try and follow up on that. Of course, the Wii's success was because of a gimmick and that just isn't going to last. I think after the Wii U, Nintendo will realize this and that will be the end of the Wii line of consoles. They've started taking small steps to get back on good terms with non-casual gamers, hopefully they'll pick up the pace on that a bit.
What was the gimmek that Nintendo used for the Wii sales?
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: sin2beta on December 12, 2013, 08:35:06 pm
I don't see Nintendo going third party for the sole fact that they will probably have the most popular console for this generation... the 3DS. Nintendo will be in the hardware market until portable gaming dies completely.
Now is not a good time to be a third party game developer anyway. The day Nintendo goes third party is the day they die. A probable only reason Sega is still alive is due to Sammy propping them up. Sega's number one business is supplying Sammy access to IPs.
Nintendo would fair better. But not enough. I don't think there will be that many people interested in a Mario game who are not willing to shell out cash for a Wii or WiiU
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: 90snostalga on December 12, 2013, 08:41:33 pm
Oh snap ! :D I just seen on walmart that the WiiU has a Super Luigu Bros. adventure game! Finally he got his own besides that mansion for the gamecube. I wonder how that game is!
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: turf on December 12, 2013, 10:26:05 pm
Oh snap ! :D I just seen on walmart that the WiiU has a Super Luigu Bros. adventure game! Finally he got his own besides that mansion for the gamecube. I wonder how that game is!
Don't get too excited. It's New SMB U with 100 seconds on the clock. It was worth 20 bones, but it's basically a hack of New SMB U.
I love mario games so I liked the Luigi game too. It's just more if the same though.
Title: Re: Wii U
Post by: insektmute on December 14, 2013, 02:30:15 am
I have always loved Nintendo (my first love behind Sega) and support them, but I will admit, they have dropped the ball on the marketing and promotion for the Wii U because I know a hand full of gamers off the top of my head who dont have one and who think its a portable console. I got to properly educate them. I am still shocked tho' that this whole time, I have been completely wrong about it as a gamer and collector :-[
Marketing only takes you so far, though. Getting across what the system is will help snare the casuals, but for hardcore gamers and developers, it's a chicken and egg problem. Developers and publishers want hardware that allows them to execute their ideas with minimal hassle, and a healthy ecosystem built around it in order release their games with relative confidence. Gamers need hardware that lets them play games with minimal hassle, and a healthy ecosystem built around it that makes them feel confident they'll get their money's worth.
Nintendo is in a situation where they need more games on the system to get players to flock to it, but developers aren't biting. There's no sales momentum, and most of them aren't going to be torchbearers for it when the hardware itself is underpowered enough that releasing multiplatform games for it are either a waste of time or a pain in the ass, especially when the PS3 and 360 have massive install bases and can already be the "cheap" alternatives to the PS4 and Xbone.
They'll have an audience, as they always do, but they need content a lot more than they need marketing right now.