VGCollect Site Stuff => Site Feedback => Topic started by: insektmute on November 06, 2013, 01:00:39 am
Title: Reproduction carts
Post by: insektmute on November 06, 2013, 01:00:39 am
I seem to run into a slew of these every time I dig around old console games on the site, but I'm wondering what the official stance is on things like repro carts? To my thinking, they're in the same camp as things like downloaded ROMs, burned Dreamcast games, fake Neo-Geo carts passed off as the real thing, etc. and so they shouldn't be here, but I feel like this may have come up once before and people were in favor of listing them.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: haloofthesun on November 06, 2013, 01:33:55 am
I have some. They physically exist in my collection, so I would like to keep track of them.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: insektmute on November 06, 2013, 02:48:26 am
Right, but by that measure, if I burn a bunch of Dreamcast games, put together some nice packaging, and sell them online for a profit, those should also be viable to be listed, even though they're just bootlegs? One of the repro companies I saw was even scrapping the plastic casings from other games, and painting them to hide scuffs and scratches.
I get why some people buy them and all, but my perception of VGC has always been that it's about collecting actual, released games, and as an extension of that, stuff like ROMs and bootlegs are excluded except maybe in instances where a publisher has given explicit permission for a specific individual or company to do so.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: turf on November 06, 2013, 11:19:51 am
Right, but by that measure, if I burn a bunch of Dreamcast games, put together some nice packaging, and sell them online for a profit, those should also be viable to be listed, even though they're just bootlegs? One of the repro companies I saw was even scrapping the plastic casings from other games, and painting them to hide scuffs and scratches.
I get why some people buy them and all, but my perception of VGC has always been that it's about collecting actual, released games, and as an extension of that, stuff like ROMs and bootlegs are excluded except maybe in instances where a publisher has given explicit permission for a specific individual or company to do so.
I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but what about the Camerica, Wisdom Tree, and Tengen games on the NES? Aren't they the same thing? I think a repro game has it's place.
A repro game that wasn't originally released in the US should be added. A burned Dreamcast game from your buddy is completly different.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: matt on November 06, 2013, 11:27:55 am
We've been discussing this a lot internally as they do seem to mud up the listings. Keep this discussion going so we can get some opinions and expect an official decision soon.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: foxhack on November 06, 2013, 11:48:42 am
I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but what about the Camerica, Wisdom Tree, and Tengen games on the NES? Aren't they the same thing? I think a repro game has it's place.
A repro game that wasn't originally released in the US should be added. A burned Dreamcast game from your buddy is completly different.
A repro game is a glorified bootleg.
They should be added. But they should be separate from official releases.
There are three kinds of games for consoles: Officially licensed, unlicensed (Tengen, Camerica, homebrew games with original code), and pirates. Pirates include reproduction carts.
If the reproduction carts are legally sanctioned by whoever created the original software, then they fall under unlicensed. If the reproduction carts are of a game that was never released in a specific region, are altered in any way (like a translated game), a prototype that was never meant to be distributed, etc... it's still a bootleg. Period.
This isn't so easy to define, I know.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: scott on November 06, 2013, 11:55:41 am
I only have one Repro cart and it's Dragon Quest Monsters: Caravan Heart. While it's part of my GBA collection, since it's not a legit release I don't have it listed in my collection. Though I have the homebrew cart of Battle Kid: The Fortress of Peril also and it is listed in my collection.
Personally, and this is only my opinion on it, I believe VGC should only list legit releases by actual publishers and stay away from listing hacks, pirates, bootlegs and such. But there was a lot of call for allowing homebrews and we agreed. Though I agree with homebrew games like Battle Kid: Fortress of Peril, or Hydorah, which are listed in my collection, since they are made by a developer from scratch. I don't agree with romhacks and the like and I believe they don't really belong in the database. There has been a lot of back and forth on what we should do with things like this. But like everything we don't just jump in full balls on decisions and like to gauge everyone's opinions.
I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, but what about the Camerica, Wisdom Tree, and Tengen games on the NES? Aren't they the same thing? I think a repro game has it's place.
A repro game that wasn't originally released in the US should be added. A burned Dreamcast game from your buddy is completly different.
A repro game is a glorified bootleg.
They should be added. But they should be separate from official releases.
There are three kinds of games for consoles: Officially licensed, unlicensed (Tengen, Camerica, homebrew games with original code), and pirates. Pirates include reproduction carts.
If the reproduction carts are legally sanctioned by whoever created the original software, then they fall under unlicensed. If the reproduction carts are of a game that was never released in a specific region, are altered in any way (like a translated game), a prototype that was never meant to be distributed, etc... it's still a bootleg. Period.
This isn't so easy to define, I know.
At the moment. I am debating on splitting the Categories again and moving demos and homebrews/etc to their own categories and cleaning up the actual console listings.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: haloofthesun on November 06, 2013, 02:11:59 pm
Not to sound rude or defensive, but I don't feel like anyone should be able to say what I can or cannot have listed in my collection. I don't really know how to say that nicely, so I'm sorry if that comes off as angry. I'm not.
A database of video games is already going to be cluttered, even without repros. There are thousands upon thousands of video games. A few dozen repro carts is not going to "mud things up".
However, I do agree that romhacks may be unnecessary. I would vote to keep them anyway but I can understand wanting to get rid of them. Removing Engilish translations and unreleased games doesn't make any sense though.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: turf on November 06, 2013, 02:23:19 pm
If someone puts it on a cart/disc and someone buys it to add it to their collection, that should be up to the collector. I do agree that rom hacks, translations, unofficial re-releases, etc. should all be kept seperate from the original releases. It doesn't matter how the game was made; it still exists and we should be given the option to add it to our collection.
My opinion: Allow them to be added, but be kept seperate from the original releases.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: haloofthesun on November 06, 2013, 02:39:32 pm
Yeah, I'm not sure why it just can't be marked as a Reproduction. Whenever I've added any to the database, I've always marked them as Unofficial, Unreleased, or Homebrew, depending on which they were, but having a category for Reproduction would be the best way to go, really.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: foxhack on November 06, 2013, 03:12:20 pm
Not to sound rude or defensive, but I don't feel like anyone should be able to say what I can or cannot have listed in my collection. I don't really know how to say that nicely, so I'm sorry if that comes off as angry. I'm not.
A database of video games is already going to be cluttered, even without repros. There are thousands upon thousands of video games. A few dozen repro carts is not going to "mud things up".
However, I do agree that romhacks may be unnecessary. I would vote to keep them anyway but I can understand wanting to get rid of them. Removing Engilish translations and unreleased games doesn't make any sense though.
I get angry about those items from two different points of view.
As an admin, the database gets cluttered with false information added by the repro cart creators. My repro has an ESRB rating and a UPC! Uh, no it doesn't. Those are fake. I remember someone adding a repro that had the UPC code for the SNES Marvel Super Heroes game... this also clutters up Google search rankings and it makes it look like the item is official when it's not.
As a collector (okay and as an admin too) I hate having to deal with Dreamcast games downloaded from the internet and burned to CD-R. Stuff like Beats of Rage mods, Bleemcast PS1 ports, MAME collections? The freakin' HALF-LIFE DC proto that got leaked to the internet? That does not belong here. Ugh, I don't know.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: haloofthesun on November 06, 2013, 04:36:08 pm
Entries with false information does not make the item in question an invalid inclusion. That can be corrected. I think indicating on the item's page that it's a reproduction should be enough to let anyone know that it's not an official item, especially considering this place is for collectors.
The Dreamcast stuff you've listed surely doesn't belong. That's like saying if I had a collection of NES roms on a flash drive or if I had any of the countless Final Fantasy III SNES hacks burnt to a disc and the booted them with an emulator on a console then it should be added to the database, and that's just silly. Repro carts aren't the same thing (unless you're going to go with a slippery slope argument).
Terranigma? Keep it. Castlevania: Chorus of Mysteries? Purge
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: foxhack on November 06, 2013, 05:05:54 pm
Entries with false information does not make the item in question an invalid inclusion. That can be corrected. I think indicating on the item's page that it's a reproduction should be enough to let anyone know that it's not an official item, especially considering this place is for collectors.
The Dreamcast stuff you've listed surely doesn't belong. That's like saying if I had a collection of NES roms on a flash drive or if I had any of the countless Final Fantasy III SNES hacks burnt to a disc and the booted them with an emulator on a console then it should be added to the database, and that's just silly. Repro carts aren't the same thing (unless you're going to go with a slippery slope argument).
Terranigma? Keep it. Castlevania: Chorus of Mysteries? Purge
Anyway, that's my two cents.
By your reasoning, Terranigma shouldn't be here either. Because it's a hack. (A PAL to NTSC hack, but still, a hack.)
You should also not ignore a game just because it's a hack. There's some truly impressive stuff out there.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: haloofthesun on November 06, 2013, 07:01:34 pm
I wouldn't call it a hack still, but then we're dissecting definitions and there's no point in that lol.
And I personally do like a lot of romhacks and some of the repro carts I own are such, I just meant I can understand not including them in the database.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: teck on November 08, 2013, 08:02:06 pm
I worry about 2 major issues.... One is legitimacy.... There are a LOT of different games in the world from different regions.... I get customers fairly often who have been duped into buying a repro thinking it was legit due to bad information and misleading ebay auctions.... Yes Terranigma is an amazing game, but there is NO North American release for it and that is just a fact people have to live with.... Dumping a PAL version into a cheap gutted US cartridge and reselling them online for $70 plus is immoral in my stand point.... I already have mixed feelings about digital content being listed here as it just muddles things while I browse for physical releases.... Granted the search engine could use an overhaul.... Imagine the confusion for newer collectors and enthusiasts when they start finding Zelda games for SNES that aren't A Link to the Past.... I would go so far as to say that if we wanted those kinds of things around that there should be a sister site for it like vgchomebrew.com or something....
The second issue I see with repros is that they will be an incredible pain in the ass to track.... Think of all the inaccurate information or lack of information that would have to be parsed from the database for those entries.... Who is the developer~? When was it released~? Shit, the labels could end up with 5 or 6 different variations depending on the situation as well.... I think it would be a nightmare from the implementation side for the site as well.... As I previously mentioned, if there were a sister site set/database setup that would prevent them from bleeding into each other I think both parties would be equally happy.... But as I previously stated, I refuse to even consider swag, digital, and hardware as a part of my "colelction" so maybe my opinions are a little overbearing....
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: insektmute on November 09, 2013, 06:06:59 pm
What teck said. I've also found that despite assurances of people putting things into special categories, keeping things clean in the db, and so on, most repros appear like so:
http://vgcollect.com/item/49106
If you click through, you'll see that it's an unofficial release, but there's absolutely no info to quantify what that entails, where it comes from, whether it's from a repro group, or some kid in his basement. By allowing any of them, we should technically be allowing those one-off homebrew creations too, even though they don't really 'exist' in any marketplace sense of the word.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: turf on November 09, 2013, 09:46:53 pm
We'll if you don't include Repro carts and home brews, imp leaving the site.
Wait, it doesn't really matter. I don't own any anyway. Whatever you guys think is best I'm cool with.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: teck on November 10, 2013, 02:37:13 am
What teck said. I've also found that despite assurances of people putting things into special categories, keeping things clean in the db, and so on, most repros appear like so:
http://vgcollect.com/item/49106
If you click through, you'll see that it's an unofficial release, but there's absolutely no info to quantify what that entails, where it comes from, whether it's from a repro group, or some kid in his basement. By allowing any of them, we should technically be allowing those one-off homebrew creations too, even though they don't really 'exist' in any marketplace sense of the word.
Yeah.... Just so much maintenance involved.... Ack, to say the least, I do not envy whoever moderates that shit....
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: thomascozine on November 10, 2013, 02:42:24 am
I have both a NWC 1990 and a Mother 1 reproduction carts. While I place them on the same shelf as my official releases and unlicensed games I don't really feel they should be included, in an official capacity, on the site. But, I can see a the possibility with them being listed in a separate repo list.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: soera on November 10, 2013, 09:51:12 am
I think reproductions should be included as long as its not just a 1off hack of something. To me, my definition of a repro is a game that is not normally available in the area its being reproduced for and its then translated and put on a cart/disk and made for sale in some sort or fashion whether it be a limited number of release or available on a repro website. Examples include Mother for the NES, DQ IV and V for the SNES. I have a few of my own. DQ Monsters Caravan hearts for the GBA and Ys IV on the SNES.
What I dont think should be on here are hacks of games that arent available unless you just download the shit from the internet or something. If you have the only copy of Super Dipshit bros, well outstanding for you but its not really something that needs to waste a spot in the database. A pirated game can be considered one of these cause there are so many different variations that it would take 100s of different options to cover every scenario. Some of those pirate carts have over a thousand games on them and almost none of them are the same on each cart.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: sin2beta on November 10, 2013, 05:40:14 pm
My problem with the Repro argument is that (in most cases) everything can be repro'd. If the database is complete and includes all reproductions for each region, we essentially get several worldwide release database. Sure some games require special chips (NES Sunsoft games). But if you have a programmable IC, you can repro any game.
The only reason I see repros wanting to be listed is to list those acclaimed games that routinely get repro'd. The games like Mother, Golden Axe 3, Monster World 4, etc. The only reason these repro games would be listed on the database as opposed to others is due to popularity at the time.
My feeling is, if I have a repro of Monster World 4, I'm going to list the JP Monster World 4. The repro is the ROM of JP Monster World 4 dumped on another cartridge with a fan translation. I would be hesitant to say the repro cart has any right to be separately listed an an NA region. Does it have a region?
If someone has a repro, let them list it under it's original release. Seriously, it is easy to make your own repros with the right equipment. It is almost literally the same as burning a game.
This is wicked cool, but does not warrant a new spot on the database. Especially if it is just a region issue. Otherwise I want my homemade repro of Super Mario 2 (Japanese Lost levels) added. I burned it to a chip myself. Hell, I even printed out a nice label.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: turf on November 10, 2013, 07:33:39 pm
So if I get a repro copy of SMB 2 Japan, I should just list it as the Japan release?
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: sin2beta on November 10, 2013, 07:47:33 pm
If someone has a repro, let them list it under it's original release.
My issue with this is since it's been so modified it isn't really its original release anymore. I mean, my Mother 1 repro looks nothing like the Japanese release. It also, wouldn't work on a Famicom without an adapter. It's a different game, and I feel it should be treated as such.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: sin2beta on November 10, 2013, 08:55:26 pm
So if I get a repro copy of SMB 2 Japan, I should just list it as the Japan release?
...
Are you people trying to give me an aneurysm or something?
LOL. What I mean by that is one should not make another entry. Let's say I buy a repro copy of Mother. I would just search for Mother and add the already listed famicom version to my collection. This way I don't jack up the database. I would know by looking at my collection that when I have Mother (famicom) in my collection I really have Mother (repro).
So, far I haven't done this. But I do plan on buying the repro of Monster World 4. I'm not adding an entry to the database. I will just add the Japanese version to my collection. I will know the difference looking at my collection.
Now if you are sharing your list with others or buying multiple versions, that won't work.
But I have to say that my favorite option is to have a separate Repro section. I just want Repro versions of Monster World 4 out of the Genesis list. It's not a genesis game. It is a Mega Drive game. Burning a ROM does not make it a Genesis release.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: foxhack on November 10, 2013, 09:03:46 pm
But I have to say that my favorite option is to have a separate Repro section. I just want Repro versions of Monster World 4 out of the Genesis list. It's not a genesis game. It is a Mega Drive game. Burning a ROM does not make it a Genesis release.
I thought the only available repros of that were of the translated version.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: sin2beta on November 10, 2013, 09:12:06 pm
But I have to say that my favorite option is to have a separate Repro section. I just want Repro versions of Monster World 4 out of the Genesis list. It's not a genesis game. It is a Mega Drive game. Burning a ROM does not make it a Genesis release.
I thought the only available repros of that were of the translated version.
But does a fan translation make it a North American Genesis release?
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: thomascozine on November 10, 2013, 09:17:32 pm
LOL. What I mean by that is one should not make another entry. Let's say I buy a repro copy of Mother. I would just search for Mother and add the already listed famicom version to my collection. This way I don't jack up the database. I would know by looking at my collection that when I have Mother (famicom) in my collection I really have Mother (repro).
But like I said, your Mother repro wouldn't work on a Famicom. In every sense of the phrase; it's the same, but different. It's not an official release, but it's also not a Famicom game anymore. It's a NES/Famicom repro. A whole new category.
But I have to say that my favorite option is to have a separate Repro section. I just want Repro versions of Monster World 4 out of the Genesis list. It's not a genesis game. It is a Mega Drive game. Burning a ROM does not make it a Genesis release.
This is exactly what should be done. And I agree, a burned Mega Drive ROM does not equal a Genesis game. Which is why, if demand is high enough to justify, a separate"repro" category should be made.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: sin2beta on November 10, 2013, 09:54:22 pm
LOL. What I mean by that is one should not make another entry. Let's say I buy a repro copy of Mother. I would just search for Mother and add the already listed famicom version to my collection. This way I don't jack up the database. I would know by looking at my collection that when I have Mother (famicom) in my collection I really have Mother (repro).
But like I said, your Mother repro wouldn't work on a Famicom. In every sense of the phrase; it's the same, but different. It's not an official release, but it's also not a Famicom game anymore. It's a NES/Famicom repro. A whole new category.
But I have to say that my favorite option is to have a separate Repro section. I just want Repro versions of Monster World 4 out of the Genesis list. It's not a genesis game. It is a Mega Drive game. Burning a ROM does not make it a Genesis release.
This is exactly what should be done. And I agree, a burned Mega Drive ROM does not equal a Genesis game. Which is why, if demand is high enough to justify, a separate"repro" category should be made.
I would to agree.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: teck on November 10, 2013, 11:45:41 pm
I think reproductions should be included as long as its not just a 1off hack of something. To me, my definition of a repro is a game that is not normally available in the area its being reproduced for and its then translated and put on a cart/disk and made for sale in some sort or fashion whether it be a limited number of release or available on a repro website. Examples include Mother for the NES, DQ IV and V for the SNES. I have a few of my own. DQ Monsters Caravan hearts for the GBA and Ys IV on the SNES.
What I dont think should be on here are hacks of games that arent available unless you just download the shit from the internet or something. If you have the only copy of Super Dipshit bros, well outstanding for you but its not really something that needs to waste a spot in the database. A pirated game can be considered one of these cause there are so many different variations that it would take 100s of different options to cover every scenario. Some of those pirate carts have over a thousand games on them and almost none of them are the same on each cart.
But the issue is it is TOO easy to make ANYTHING and just sell a bunch of copies.... ANYTHING you can download on the internet could end up a repro.... I made some english verisions of my favorite Japanese GBA games several years back (Love Hina got me started) and programed them over shitty cheap GBA carts and printed a sticker and bam! Easy repro.... This was something I did in my spare time on a whim.... Who's to stop me from making a bunch more copies and putting them up on ebay~? All of a sudden I have met all of the qualifications you listed with barely any effort....
My problem with the Repro argument is that (in most cases) everything can be repro'd. If the database is complete and includes all reproductions for each region, we essentially get several worldwide release database. Sure some games require special chips (NES Sunsoft games). But if you have a programmable IC, you can repro any game.
The only reason I see repros wanting to be listed is to list those acclaimed games that routinely get repro'd. The games like Mother, Golden Axe 3, Monster World 4, etc. The only reason these repro games would be listed on the database as opposed to others is due to popularity at the time.
My feeling is, if I have a repro of Monster World 4, I'm going to list the JP Monster World 4. The repro is the ROM of JP Monster World 4 dumped on another cartridge with a fan translation. I would be hesitant to say the repro cart has any right to be separately listed an an NA region. Does it have a region?
If someone has a repro, let them list it under it's original release. Seriously, it is easy to make your own repros with the right equipment. It is almost literally the same as burning a game.
This is wicked cool, but does not warrant a new spot on the database. Especially if it is just a region issue. Otherwise I want my homemade repro of Super Mario 2 (Japanese Lost levels) added. I burned it to a chip myself. Hell, I even printed out a nice label.
I'm relieved someone views this in a similar way that I do.... I'm tempted to make a quick "Adventures of Poopface Guy" game or something and put it on ebay and list it here to make a point, lol....
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: sin2beta on November 11, 2013, 12:27:32 am
My problem with the Repro argument is that (in most cases) everything can be repro'd. If the database is complete and includes all reproductions for each region, we essentially get several worldwide release database. Sure some games require special chips (NES Sunsoft games). But if you have a programmable IC, you can repro any game.
The only reason I see repros wanting to be listed is to list those acclaimed games that routinely get repro'd. The games like Mother, Golden Axe 3, Monster World 4, etc. The only reason these repro games would be listed on the database as opposed to others is due to popularity at the time.
My feeling is, if I have a repro of Monster World 4, I'm going to list the JP Monster World 4. The repro is the ROM of JP Monster World 4 dumped on another cartridge with a fan translation. I would be hesitant to say the repro cart has any right to be separately listed an an NA region. Does it have a region?
If someone has a repro, let them list it under it's original release. Seriously, it is easy to make your own repros with the right equipment. It is almost literally the same as burning a game.
This is wicked cool, but does not warrant a new spot on the database. Especially if it is just a region issue. Otherwise I want my homemade repro of Super Mario 2 (Japanese Lost levels) added. I burned it to a chip myself. Hell, I even printed out a nice label.
I'm relieved someone views this in a similar way that I do.... I'm tempted to make a quick "Adventures of Poopface Guy" game or something and put it on ebay and list it here to make a point, lol....
I think there is a certain level of mysticism people see when dealing with cart games. I think that is a large part of the argument. Notice we aren't talking about reproduction Sega CD. This is because everyone has a cd burner. Not everyone has the equipment to reprogram a cart. But it is the same thing as burning a CD. Just a different format.
If I burnt a whole bunch of copies of Sega CD's Night Striker, removed the region, put it in a nice package made from cover project images, put a nice laser engraving on the CD, and sold them, I imagine most people would call me a thief. But with carts it's different. I don't get it. If burnt and sold Sega CD games can't make the cut. Why do burnt and sold NES games make the cut? Believe me it is not about translation. Where is that Golden Axe 3 translation? Some games are just in English. But I do understand that people do like to list some of them. I would admit that I would like to have Golden Axe 3 right next to Golden Axe 1 and 2.... But at what cost.... (That last bit should be read in a very dramatic voice. Maybe some *dun dun dunnn* music)
Just because you pay someone money to do this for you doesn't make it part of the system's library.
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: teck on November 11, 2013, 08:12:53 pm
I think there is a certain level of mysticism people see when dealing with cart games. I think that is a large part of the argument. Notice we aren't talking about reproduction Sega CD. This is because everyone has a cd burner. Not everyone has the equipment to reprogram a cart. But it is the same thing as burning a CD. Just a different format.
If I burnt a whole bunch of copies of Sega CD's Night Striker, removed the region, put it in a nice package made from cover project images, put a nice laser engraving on the CD, and sold them, I imagine most people would call me a thief. But with carts it's different. I don't get it. If burnt and sold Sega CD games can't make the cut. Why do burnt and sold NES games make the cut? Believe me it is not about translation. Where is that Golden Axe 3 translation? Some games are just in English. But I do understand that people do like to list some of them. I would admit that I would like to have Golden Axe 3 right next to Golden Axe 1 and 2.... But at what cost.... (That last bit should be read in a very dramatic voice. Maybe some *dun dun dunnn* music)
Just because you pay someone money to do this for you doesn't make it part of the system's library.
Hilariously, I actually did have a subconscious looming disembodied voice thing going before I even read the follow up sentence.... Also the Sega CD comment is DEAD on.... I hadn't even considered it that far, but yes it is true.... I remember similar scenarios with the Dreamcast where a kid was trying to trade bootlegs and was literally laughed out of our trading cirlcle....
Title: Re: Reproduction carts
Post by: insektmute on November 17, 2013, 05:32:12 am
As sin2beta mentioned, everyone has a CD burner...