VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => Classic Video Games => Topic started by: bismark187 on November 19, 2017, 01:26:46 am
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Just recently purchased a Metal Gear Solid 2 Premium Package factory sealed for £170.00. It was a bit pricey for my taste but this particular edition, for the condition that is in, seems to run low on reasonable offers ever since I remember tracking it down years ago. Or at least that's the perception I have from searching it on Ebay and Ebay International. It's also a favorite of mine which is why I got so committed to it.
Unfortunately it does not come with the cellophane but it has the two stickers on the bottom on the package in pristine condition (hence the factory seal). I was okay with that when I bid. What bothers me is that the box is dented in the back, in a semi circle fashion. I'm not sure how much of that kills its value since it's pretty much expected that these type of packages have some damage, whether it's factory sealed or not.
The seller assured me that it was done during transportation which smells like a bunch of BS because any damage on the protective box was below (and not where dent is) and before sending the package he mentioned that any obligations to damage done to box during transportation, if it were to happen, should be handled by me (which kind makes sense now..).
I re-checked the images from the auction and there's no discernible damage in the pictures. I decided to take a picture like he did, same quality and same color, and turns out the dent doesn't show up. Seems like a deliberate marketing photo to advertise your product as top-tier.
I'm now wrestling with the idea to return or not. The package is really in great condition aside from that small damage. Asked 2 friends on mine to look at it and none of them noticed until they were looking carefully to spot it. I know I'm probably being a little bit anal about returning it, especially considering it's very difficult to come across it (checked the latest 6 months of activity on Ebay and came up with nothing..). It bothers me a bit, not so much because of the damage itself but because it might take away some of its value to collectors.
The images should help you see the package (the first photo is the one I took to emulate his) and the damage of it. Please, help me make a good decision.
https://imgur.com/a/DuBHq (https://imgur.com/a/DuBHq)
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You seem to be beating yourself up over condition a little too much it seems. I used to be the same way but it can really take it's tole. OCD and old games don't mix well lol. This is only my opinion but video games are made to be played, held, opened. Enjoyed. Not relics trapped behind glass with not an ounce of dust on them being awed at as some sort of modern art masterpiece looked at with a monocle. When I first started collecting I was under the impression that if something had the slightest sign of wear it was ruined. Until I realized collectors play their games, hold them, enjoy them. Not clammer about what type of dust particle is on the pins or what not.
Having the idealogy of chasing perfection to increase value is troublesome. It can really cause problems when collecting old things that almost always have some wear :D. While you never want something in bad condition of course and the cleaner the better their will almost always be imperfections on items of this age. Minor or severe. As for the crease on the box, it's noticable to someone looking for it. But not at all major and nothing that most people would even care about when inspecting the item for what it is which is a rare game that also happens to be brand new. No item is pristine or perfect. VGA grading has put this false stigma in collector's heads that their games are worst or lesser if they haven't been blessed by the virgin mary herself or have a slightest microscopic strand of corner fuzz.
One of the big things I noticed in the post was when you said "It bothers me not because of the damage itself but because it'll take value away for other collectors". That is a very haunting and digressive thinking to have. To only buy to impress other smug collectors as they stare at your games with magnifying glasses sipping their fine gentlemen's scotch, anything less than perfection getting you the smug snark of disapproval as they look down at you through their nose. Who cares what they think. Are you a reseller? Are you a enterpenuer using video games to attempt to get rich? Do you plan on selling your games after many years like some sort of savings inflation or war bond? If so i'd suggest houses and cars as they are worth more to invest in and usually turn higher profits. If the games are for investment and not to be loved and played than that's the biggest mistake. The value of games is held at such high acclaim with collectors when really it's pointless if you're not selling it anyway. It's fickle. Coming at it with the attitude of hoarding treasure for "value" rather than enjoyment is the issue here and chasing perfection is chasing lies. It doesn't exist. I'm not saying you shouldn't always want the best and most perfect things when collecting but you should never beat yourself up over minor differences or because of "worth" or for the false approval of others but because you like it and love the game. :)
he only thing that matters about the game is if YOU like it and if the crease bothers YOU. :) Not what some smug collector will think. As a collector although only one of many I can tell you it's an amazing piece and in amazing condition. If the crease bothers you that much than i'd say return it but being so anal over imperfections will make it tough to even buy or enjoy old games in the future. Most copies of games have worst imperfections from the factory let alone after 10+ years of being around. :)
Edit: After relooking at the images, That dent is so minor I didn't even notice it in 3 of the 4 pictures. :). I notice the finger prints and smudges on that glossy black much more. I can't stress how minor and non invasive it is. I hope this helps with you feeling bad about it. It's really not bad. If you do end up returning it I would because the seller lied or didn't show good enough pictures. Not because of the damage itself.
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Unless the item was listed as absolutely mint I would say the buyer TS is extemely anal. Also if your really that picky you should have asked very specific that these minor flaws are very important to you. not to mention that mint these days is not pristine, especially with cardboard released games.
The seller made a mistake to say it's thanks to shipping while he could have said that the damage is so minor it was left unnoticed unless you really asked for it. I'll take it back if you asked for it or if it was stated as mint.
This damage is super minor, will probably look even less damaging in real life than on the picture.
In this condition you could state the condition as excellent or near mint without super specific pictures of the damage.
Not to mention this is an old ps2 quote on quote Cardboard collectors edition. You would need to store it like a baby and never use it to keep them boxes pristine they damage so easily if they even came out unscaved of the stores back in the day.
also as far as pictures go, you could easily complain to many sellers if were going that route, I have seen plenty of pictures in wich such cases are left unnoticed unless you would specificly make a close up of the damage like you did.
Seems just like a normal picture of the back while you made a close up to show the damage
I mean if even your pictures with a flash didn;t show the damage while you made a whole picture of the back that's saying something of how minor it is could have easily been missed instead of making such picture on purpose. Not many people will make twenty pictures of an item with so many close ups way to much effort unless the damage was actually not super minor.
edit
Also if the damage was really minor and not visible on the pics it might also be a thing that the seller did not know about the damage at all wich makes the shipping thing not a lie even though the damage was already on the item.
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1)Why do you care about value for OTHER collectors? Did you buy it to sell? Or specifically to show off to some local nitpickers? I buy my games for ME first and foremost. For the record, I see no value in your game at all because I don't care about Metal Gear or imported PS2 in general. So clearly you shouldn't be worried about the value I put on it- why worry about anyone else?
2)Why do you assume other collectors will care? Most of us don't keep these things because we like the boxes, you know. Heck, there's a solid debate over whether or not one should remove rental stickers from games. There is a notable faction that feels they should stay, even if they can be removed, to add history to the item & preserve the legacy of rentals.
That tiny little ding looks like the kind of thing that happens at the factory level, since the act of touching these boxes at ALL puts them at risk for minor damage. It's probably been there for decades. Let it go, dude.
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1)Why do you care about value for OTHER collectors? Did you buy it to sell? Or specifically to show off to some local nitpickers? I buy my games for ME first and foremost. For the record, I see no value in your game at all because I don't care about Metal Gear or imported PS2 in general. So clearly you shouldn't be worried about the value I put on it- why worry about anyone else?
2)Why do you assume other collectors will care? Most of us don't keep these things because we like the boxes, you know. Heck, there's a solid debate over whether or not one should remove rental stickers from games. There is a notable faction that feels they should stay, even if they can be removed, to add history to the item & preserve the legacy of rentals.
That tiny little ding looks like the kind of thing that happens at the factory level, since the act of touching these boxes at ALL puts them at risk for minor damage. It's probably been there for decades. Let it go, dude.
Hey, I think the OP was fine in asking for genuine advice about whether to complain or not about their purchase. I don't think it's fair to give them a hard time for asking. If you don't care, skip the thread and don't bother replying.
bismark187, I've been in the same boat before and when you spend a lot of money on something that you were expecting to be pristine, any imperfection can be crushing. The stickers are fine and not uncommon for boxed editions like that, but that is frustrating what the seller's response was in regard to shipping. How did they ship it? Did it seem like they took the necessary precautions to protect it as best as they could?
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1)Why do you care about value for OTHER collectors? Did you buy it to sell? Or specifically to show off to some local nitpickers? I buy my games for ME first and foremost. For the record, I see no value in your game at all because I don't care about Metal Gear or imported PS2 in general. So clearly you shouldn't be worried about the value I put on it- why worry about anyone else?
2)Why do you assume other collectors will care? Most of us don't keep these things because we like the boxes, you know. Heck, there's a solid debate over whether or not one should remove rental stickers from games. There is a notable faction that feels they should stay, even if they can be removed, to add history to the item & preserve the legacy of rentals.
That tiny little ding looks like the kind of thing that happens at the factory level, since the act of touching these boxes at ALL puts them at risk for minor damage. It's probably been there for decades. Let it go, dude.
Hey, I think the OP was fine in asking for genuine advice about whether to complain or not about their purchase. I don't think it's fair to give them a hard time for asking. If you don't care, skip the thread and don't bother replying.
bismark187, I've been in the same boat before and when you spend a lot of money on something that you were expecting to be pristine, any imperfection can be crushing. The stickers are fine and not uncommon for boxed editions like that, but that is frustrating what the seller's response was in regard to shipping. How did they ship it? Did it seem like they took the necessary precautions to protect it as best as they could?
I do agree that if you pay nice money and expected something mint I would say the buyer is right
However it really depends on how the item was listed and if the buyer took the effort to ask if the item was pristine free of even the most minor kinds of damage.
If you expect something mint and if your super picky you as a buyer would at least need to have the responsibilty to ask these questions to confirm if it is actually in your condition or to back out since it does not meet your criteria. this is an old item not a brand new ps4 Collectors edition from the factory
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I typed a really long and borderline emotional rant about this... but I deleted it.
No, you shouldn't return it. If it was your intent, that little dent will likely not affect your ability to re-sell said item nor truly affect its value... unless you are going to have it graded... in which case that's an entirely different rant. I'm also certain that the seller wasn't trying to trick you with photo magic, you said yourself that you had people look and they could barely tell.
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I'd probably keep it. I'm very picky now about my standard edition games, if the artwork is pressed into the case I usually don't want it. But sometimes, I still end up with one that has a tiny bit of damage. It's an absolute nightmare looking for 100% perfect items. Many times they don't make it from the factory or the store perfect.
I remember when I got my Mario Allstars collector's edition for Wii brand new at launch, I opened it up and the manual was mangled by the center tabs of the case. Made me mad, but sometimes you just have to say screw it.
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1)Why do you care about value for OTHER collectors? Did you buy it to sell? Or specifically to show off to some local nitpickers? I buy my games for ME first and foremost. For the record, I see no value in your game at all because I don't care about Metal Gear or imported PS2 in general. So clearly you shouldn't be worried about the value I put on it- why worry about anyone else?
2)Why do you assume other collectors will care? Most of us don't keep these things because we like the boxes, you know. Heck, there's a solid debate over whether or not one should remove rental stickers from games. There is a notable faction that feels they should stay, even if they can be removed, to add history to the item & preserve the legacy of rentals.
That tiny little ding looks like the kind of thing that happens at the factory level, since the act of touching these boxes at ALL puts them at risk for minor damage. It's probably been there for decades. Let it go, dude.
Hey, I think the OP was fine in asking for genuine advice about whether to complain or not about their purchase. I don't think it's fair to give them a hard time for asking. If you don't care, skip the thread and don't bother replying.
It really wasn't my intent to give the guy flak- mostly just to consider why it is this dent bothers him. I have known a few collectors who work themselves into a frazzle trying to live up to what they think other collectors expect to consider them 'one of the fold', and get upset when their efforts don't result in great praise because, quite simply, there is no true consensus & you will never please everyone.
It'll be easier to proceed if he genuinely feels duped by a poor description, rather than being worried that this defect will make other feel less about his collecting prowess. Becuase in the end, the value of the effort to report the issue is up to him.
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1)Why do you care about value for OTHER collectors? Did you buy it to sell? Or specifically to show off to some local nitpickers? I buy my games for ME first and foremost. For the record, I see no value in your game at all because I don't care about Metal Gear or imported PS2 in general. So clearly you shouldn't be worried about the value I put on it- why worry about anyone else?
2)Why do you assume other collectors will care? Most of us don't keep these things because we like the boxes, you know. Heck, there's a solid debate over whether or not one should remove rental stickers from games. There is a notable faction that feels they should stay, even if they can be removed, to add history to the item & preserve the legacy of rentals.
That tiny little ding looks like the kind of thing that happens at the factory level, since the act of touching these boxes at ALL puts them at risk for minor damage. It's probably been there for decades. Let it go, dude.
Hey, I think the OP was fine in asking for genuine advice about whether to complain or not about their purchase. I don't think it's fair to give them a hard time for asking. If you don't care, skip the thread and don't bother replying.
It really wasn't my intent to give the guy flak- mostly just to consider why it is this dent bothers him. I have known a few collectors who work themselves into a frazzle trying to live up to what they think other collectors expect to consider them 'one of the fold', and get upset when their efforts don't result in great praise because, quite simply, there is no true consensus & you will never please everyone.
It'll be easier to proceed if he genuinely feels duped by a poor description, rather than being worried that this defect will make other feel less about his collecting prowess. Becuase in the end, the value of the effort to report the issue is up to him.
Ah, gotcha. When I read the comment this morning, it felt very snarky, but reading it again now, I can read it without the snark. Apologies for jumping on you like that.
Your last statement, "Because in the end, the value of the effort to report the issue is up to him" really is the key point, in my opinion. No matter what we tell the OP, it's up to them to decide whether or not they want to debate with the seller regarding the condition of the item. Personally, it's almost always too much trouble and a reminder to myself to not spend too much on sales that I'm not making in person. Pictures only tell so much and ensuring good packaging and shipment is so, so difficult.
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Ah, gotcha. When I read the comment this morning, it felt very snarky, but reading it again now, I can read it without the snark. Apologies for jumping on you like that.
Your last statement, "Because in the end, the value of the effort to report the issue is up to him" really is the key point, in my opinion. No matter what we tell the OP, it's up to them to decide whether or not they want to debate with the seller regarding the condition of the item. Personally, it's almost always too much trouble and a reminder to myself to not spend too much on sales that I'm not making in person. Pictures only tell so much and ensuring good packaging and shipment is so, so difficult.
No offense taken- it did come out a bit nastier than I intended. You work 2 retail jobs in November, the stress leaks out once in awhile.
I definitely feel you on watching what you spend sight unseen... the copy of the DVD set I have for my mom for Christmas is the third one ordered, due to repeated undisclosed cracks in one of the discs (?!). The one I kept still has a couple, but at least this time they're pretty minor (I think they formed when I took the disc out to look at it.) So I just ripped a page out of an old CD book to put it in, since I really didn't want to do another return.
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No offense taken- it did come out a bit nastier than I intended. You work 2 retail jobs in November, the stress leaks out once in awhile.
I definitely feel you on watching what you spend sight unseen... the copy of the DVD set I have for my mom for Christmas is the third one ordered, due to repeated undisclosed cracks in one of the discs (?!). The one I kept still has a couple, but at least this time they're pretty minor (I think they formed when I took the disc out to look at it.) So I just ripped a page out of an old CD book to put it in, since I really didn't want to do another return.
Ouch, 2 retail jobs... you have my sympathies.
And I hope your mom enjoys the DVD set! That's so frustrating when you're buying something for a gift and it doesn't arrive in a "giftable" condition. I ordered a cookbook and a small stamper set (stamp + stamp pad) for a friend once, and Amazon did that thing where they shrinkwrapped the two of them together so that when it arrived, the stamper set was crushed (plastic shards everywhere) under the giant book. Glad you ordered everything in time, at least, to make sure you could take any action you needed to prior to Christmas.
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Thank you all for taking your time to write what you did. I don't feel it was harsh, it was some genuine thought and perspective that I was looking to get from the outside of my head. I always hate how I feel I'm being too demanding on myself when I'm chasing perfection - it's a really difficult trait to have even more so when I have such fond memories of playing a favorite videogame of mine that got me spending so much time on it (and beyond the screen of my television: countless hours "wasted" on learning more about the underlying themes of it and discussing them with other people on forums - I'm sure you can understand that).
I don't care much for VGA grading nor do I actually care what other people will think of my product as a means to impress them. I bought it because I treasure the MGS series quite a lot and anything less than perfection (as I figured it was because of how it was advertised - despite being obviously an utopian thought given the age and material of the Premium Package) was a dent in my ego. :D Unfortunately, one of the very few scales I have to gauge its condition and value before someone knocks some sense into my head is to direct towards other's people perception of its value to assure the money was well spent. I suppose, perhaps because it also runs in the family (with my grandfather and father collecting things they used to love and passed on to me as having value in itself), I see it also as a net safety - not because I ever intend to sell it but should I ever one day cease to be able to enjoy those fine things someone else will see its worth akin to myself - a treasure to be passed on or shared.
Anyway, sorry for ranting out a little bit. To answer some questions, the package wasn't great (given how much the item cost and how delicate it was) but I suspect the general idea from the seller was always to blame the damage (if I complained about it) on the transportation. The guy is clearly an asshole. That being said, perhaps it's all the better that it is now in the hands of someone who truly enjoys it for what it means and represents to him, rather than someone who can't professionally deal with an asset because he perceives losing money.
You all helped me to make an important decision and I have decided to keep it. To be quite honest, I don't think I'll ever find someone in such a great condition for such a price in this lifetime. Odds are, even if I find it factory sealed again, it might have the same imperfections that will always bother me. I'm sure if someone does have that little baby in the condition I pictured in my head and they really love it they wouldn't sell it for anything less than I will be willing to give.
Thank you all, again.
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Aw, that's nice. I'm glad it all came to a good conclusion, and that wasn't ranty at all. Happy to have you in the forums, and I hope your future finds and purchases are fruitful!
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Anyway, sorry for ranting out a little bit. To answer some questions, the package wasn't great (given how much the item cost and how delicate it was) but I suspect the general idea from the seller was always to blame the damage (if I complained about it) on the transportation. The guy is clearly an asshole. That being said, perhaps it's all the better that it is now in the hands of someone who truly enjoys it for what it means and represents to him, rather than someone who can't professionally deal with an asset because he perceives losing money.
You all helped me to make an important decision and I have decided to keep it. To be quite honest, I don't think I'll ever find someone in such a great condition for such a price in this lifetime. Odds are, even if I find it factory sealed again, it might have the same imperfections that will always bother me. I'm sure if someone does have that little baby in the condition I pictured in my head and they really love it they wouldn't sell it for anything less than I will be willing to give.
Thank you all, again.
You weren't ranting at all- it's genuinely disappointing when the thing you ordered doesn't live up to expectations.
Since you've decided to keep it, perhaps consider asking for a partial refund. You say the package 'wasn't great', but it should be fairly clear if it was actually mishandled during shipping (you'd see similar damage on the outer package.) You also don't mention how specifically it was packaged- if that didn't come properly padded inside of a sturdy box, then he didn't ship it properly and transportation damage is on him.
Worst case scenario, he says no and nothing changes on your end. Best case scenario, he throws a few bucks back your way to shut you up & you get a better deal. Just a thought.
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So much text in this thread. I can't even start to read it all. Walls of text everywhere!
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I would not recommend complaining for a small refund if it was described well, not to mention it could have easily been missed so not really a lie about the shipping.
This minor damage could easily fit in many descriptions unless the seller would say it was minty without any damage or if the buyer asked for the condition very specificly.
It's Kinda the worst buyer, gives a bad rep and he might pass it of to others since your a hard unreasonable buyer to deal with if you decide to do so wich does happen from time to time.
only if you really asked for the minor things beforehand or if the seller said so specifcly and or listed as mint without the most minor kinds of damage else I would not recommend asking for a partial refund.
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I try not to worry too much on the smallest imperfections. No matter how careful I've been during moves, I still ended up with minor dings on packages. Dust particles seam inevitable as well (especially on those round circle seals).
I have asked for different copies of games from retail stores though. The BestBuy I usually purchase from doesn't trust their customers too much lol. Everything is behind a cage by the cashier. The only thing on the shelf is a photo copy of the front artwork in a sealed case. When they go to get the game, I quickly check to make sure it doesn't have a box cutter slash on the spine before I purchase it.