VGCollect Forum
VGCollect Site Stuff => Video Game Database Discussion => Topic started by: turtlepm on November 26, 2018, 06:38:04 pm
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What's going on with the updates validation?
First, it happened with Wolf Among Us, The [PS4 EU] that suddenly, someone changed the title for [FR] and someone "accepted" their change., when there was a lot of people with the previous version in their collection.
Another one I noticed now was this: https://vgcollect.com/item/15612
332 people (atm) have their GOD OF WAR III [EU], but someone changed it to [DE]. Why was it accepted? Why didn't they create a new item for the German version of the game? Now most (if not all) 332 are forced to either create another item (PEGI) for this or join the UK version.
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I can't say for sure, but in God of War 3's case, the original barcode points to the german version; said barcode field hasn't been edited after the entry was created.
In general, barcode information can often be very telling of what the entry should actually be called.
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I'm not gonna take a side, but from what I can tell...
This listing appears to have been originally created to be this item
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GOD-OF-WAR-III-3-Ps3-Versione-Italiana-Platinum-COMPLETO/191515221421?hash=item2c97325dad:g:Ej4AAOSwZjJU5NYg:rk:5:pf:1&frcectupt=true
Which would be the platinum hits PEGI EU version, but tripredacus went ahead and converted it to a German USK standard release instead of creating a new listing.
A PEGI EU Platinum hits version does exist on the site, but it was created WAAAAAAAAAAY after the original (15612 vs 152643). It was even created AFTER tripredacus converted the existing listing to this new listing.
I can't speak to what the listing looked like before and how wrong it was before tripredacus changed it, but I'd go out on a limb and say he did a bad.
https://vgcollect.com/item/152643
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In the case of a franken-entry, the original intent of the item is preserved if possible. Agozer has explained it well enough.
Mastafalik changed The Wolf Among Us to [FR], I can't speak for the reason... it may have been for the same reason.
https://vgcollect.com/item/71971
Make sure to verify an item entry before adding it into your collection. If there is something wrong, then it should be reported into the Listing Errors thread.
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nvm
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In the case of a franken-entry, the original intent of the item is preserved if possible. Agozer has explained it well enough.
Mastafalik changed The Wolf Among Us to [FR], I can't speak for the reason... it may have been for the same reason.
https://vgcollect.com/item/71971
Make sure to verify an item entry before adding it into your collection. If there is something wrong, then it should be reported into the Listing Errors thread.
It's not about verifying an item before adding to the collection, because those people that added the game, including myself, added the PEGI Rating version of the game. Someone recently changed the front cover to the german version of the game and changed/added info (like people mentioned, the barcode - it could be, I haven't noticed before), a game that has been there for years.
You know that I create a lot of European games to this site, even though I don't own them, but it's an easy way for me to keep my wishlist updated. I saw a lot of games that I added to my collection - some of them I started; and someone, for whatever reason, changed it completely because they added a new front cover...
One of the first cases I remember perfectly was this one: https://vgcollect.com/item/111526 (https://vgcollect.com/item/111526). I created this version of the game because I own the Lenticular cover, called "All Stars Edition". Only a friend of mine (alvadia) and I, when we both worked on the same videogame store, added this first edition to the collection. Months later, someone decided to add a back cover and changed the title to [PL]. This case doesn't affect me much, because it's the same cover. But why adding the [PL] in the title when nothing actually changes? It's the same version, same barcode, it's only translated to PL. If they really wanted, (s)he could create a new item: and the same goes for the God of War III and Wolf among Us.
It's just a vent, I already proposed something about this kinda things with the EU versions covers, but sometimes I login and check my collection, it's boring to see that someone has changed something that was right.
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One of the first cases I remember perfectly was this one: https://vgcollect.com/item/111526 (https://vgcollect.com/item/111526). I created this version of the game because I own the Lenticular cover, called "All Stars Edition". Only a friend of mine (alvadia) and I, when we both worked on the same videogame store, added this first edition to the collection. Months later, someone decided to add a back cover and changed the title to [PL]. This case doesn't affect me much, because it's the same cover. But why adding the [PL] in the title when nothing actually changes? It's the same version, same barcode, it's only translated to PL. If they really wanted, (s)he could create a new item: and the same goes for the God of War III and Wolf among Us.
History shows that you didnt made that entry, but our Polish mod did. You just changed the title 1 time.
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What entry did I create then?
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You created this one:
https://vgcollect.com/item/105467
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That's odd... but ok. I'll create a PEGI version for Worms W.M.D. - All Stars Edition then.
What about the God of War III? Still need to create another item like the previous one, with PEGI symbol?
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If there is an European English version of God of War III, then you can add it, but make sure to put the EAN on the entry.
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If there is an European English version of God of War III, then you can add it, but make sure to put the EAN on the entry.
Yes, there is an english PEGI version of the game. But, in that case, it's a little useless :-\ I never created portuguese items because I wanted to check how many people have that game in their collection, so I stuck with the standard PEGI version of each game. With all these different version, it wont be possible, like it happens with the NA editions...
So I'll create all my games in portuguese later, even being the only person owning them...
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It is up to you if you don't want to add the exact game you have into your collection, but generic entries have no place here.
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It is up to you if you don't want to add the exact game you have into your collection, but generic entries have no place here.
That doesn't answer anything, but thank you.
Those aren't generic entries at all. As you see, God of War PEGI version (in english) exists: https://www.thegamingsource.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/LRM_EXPORT_20180907_104328.jpg (https://www.thegamingsource.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/LRM_EXPORT_20180907_104328.jpg) and it was my first edition of the game when I bought my PS3, till I replaced it to the portuguese cover.
Those are versions that exist and people have them. Some people don't want to waste time updating their list so they add "anything" to their collection; some people (like myself) like to add games to the collection and see how many other people have that game - just like it happens to all NA games, there is only one version of standard edition. It'd be impossible to do because there are something like 30 different versions of God of War or any other Playstation 3/4 exclusive with their country sticker on it, for each edition; even though I've already made a proposition for this which was ignored.
So, in conclusion, of all comments made to my topic, none of them answered it, but all implied to this:
- anyone can change any version of the game previously created, as long as they update the barcode and image of that version they own - not the one they are editing;
- I must create/duplicate all my items, even though they already exist, because someday the standard version of the game in this site will be replaced by any PL, FR or DE version;
- from things I mentioned above, nothing is going to be done to those versions, I must create item that suites me better.
Is this correct?
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An entry that gets converted to another (by changing barcode or artwork) is in error and should not be done except in some circumstances.
God of War III: https://vgcollect.com/item/15612
- chwarg created this entry with EAN 711719158066
- in the past 7 years, this item became a franken-entry as people added covers and item numbers that did not match.
- Item entry was corrected by removing the /P from item number, and putting the front and back art that matched the EAN on the entry, and added the TLD as required.
Now in the entire 7 years that the entry had been on the site as just "God of War" and at least 3 years of having the wrong front art, people have added it to their collection. Why did they do this when the EAN had been there the whole time? Did they not know to look at the EAN on the thing they had and see there was a problem with the entry or attempt to ask anyone about it or get it corrected?
As for this complaint that someone can come along and change an entry you made into something else, isn't the response here the correct one? Wouldn't the appropriate admin response be to revert the item to what it was intended to be if apparent? This is what we did with the God of War III entry, we undid the changes that had occured over time to change the entry into a different release.
As for the God of War III European English version, if it is not in the db currently, it can be added sans TLD. If there is a UK specific release already in the db sans TLD, it should have [UK] added so that there doesn't end up being more than 1 item in the same category with the same item title.
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An entry that gets converted to another (by changing barcode or artwork) is in error and should not be done except in some circumstances.
God of War III: https://vgcollect.com/item/15612
- chwarg created this entry with EAN 711719158066
- in the past 7 years, this item became a franken-entry as people added covers and item numbers that did not match.
- Item entry was corrected by removing the /P from item number, and putting the front and back art that matched the EAN on the entry, and added the TLD as required.
Now in the entire 7 years that the entry had been on the site as just "God of War" and at least 3 years of having the wrong front art, people have added it to their collection. Why did they do this when the EAN had been there the whole time? Did they not know to look at the EAN on the thing they had and see there was a problem with the entry or attempt to ask anyone about it or get it corrected?
As for this complaint that someone can come along and change an entry you made into something else, isn't the response here the correct one? Wouldn't the appropriate admin response be to revert the item to what it was intended to be if apparent? This is what we did with the God of War III entry, we undid the changes that had occured over time to change the entry into a different release.
As for the God of War III European English version, if it is not in the db currently, it can be added sans TLD. If there is a UK specific release already in the db sans TLD, it should have [UK] added so that there doesn't end up being more than 1 item in the same category with the same item title.
I think people added the game to their collection by the title itself, not because of the EAN. When I registered in this database, I had 500 games to add, I guess I spent 2 or 3 days adding all of them. That's what might happened to all other people: they simply wanted to add their huge list of games to their collection, they didn't care about the description or information in it - that's what I think.
Now, it all depends of what's more important: the EAN or the title. If that version was supposed to be, since the beginning, the german version, the title should have its TLD. If not, people will assume that's the standard english version of the game, they won't spend time checking the EAN of the game to confirm if it's correct.
I must be honest about this: I don't care if there is a EAN in each game I added, I don't have time or patience to look at every single game I added to my collection and check if that information is correct or not. With me, I believe there are plenty more other people. The day I started this topic, one user was creating games that already were in the database, without any cover, any information, wrong title scheme... If some people can't even do a simple search in the db, it's wrong to believe that other users will verify every information of their games.
A friend of mine has way less games then I do, she spends time copying the box text of each game she owns. In my case, if the game has the release date or EAN wrong, it doesn't affect me much. It's optional information there. That's why I wonder: if the EAN code is so important (or more important then the title) shouldn't that section be obligatory when creating a new item? I mean, when you submit a new item, the only thing you can't edit on the second step is the title you previously inserted. Wouldn't be easier to make both descriptions obligatory when submitting a new item?
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Yes I know the answer as to why people have added the game like that to their collection. I did the same thing when I signed up. And most people don't care enough about the different EU versions of a game, even if they are in EU. Or people in Australia will buy EU games or vice versa (since they are both PAL) or people in US with Canadian versions, etc. That is why I said it doesn't matter if people add the wrong thing into their collection. What they add is up to them what they add and should not be pressured to be specific if they don't want to.
However, managing an accurate database is a separate situation and does not really relate to what a person adds to their collection. We have moved onto this point of having the different versions because enough collectors wanted to have options for regional releases and variations.
There are many changes that could be made to how the site works. It would be preferrable to have a submission queue as well as an edit queue. Barcode field requirement would not work across the board, so that is a no. It would only help in an overhaul and it wouldn't solve issues with games already existing. And even so, this complaint of the system does not match with the example given. Unless you actually mean a user has to put in the EAN of an item in order to add it to their collection. In that case, it would be a no also, because many people end up with a loose item and may not have any way to know what the EAN should be. Especially the case for a EU disc based game, for Sony generally would put the same exact disc in many different boxes. Or many instances of items that do not have a barcode, such as pack-in items and NFRs.
The idea of just being able to put into your collection a "game title" and then have the option of an advanced mode where you can put all the different releases under that title has occurred to us, and I can even design such a system. However, these are only ideas and ultimately we must work within the current framework of the site as it is today. And hope someday the devs will want to take up the task of expanding the functionality of the site to handle some of these other complex issues we run into. A way to make it simple for the casual, or verbose for the hardcore collector.
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Just curious, but how many mods are really active?
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It is hard for me to say exactly, since I primarily work on the site on weekday mornings only, and not at night and not on weekends or holidays. So on a normal weekday morning, I will normally see Mastafalik on. I know that Deso and Soera are still here. So there are at least those four, perhaps there are more if they do not post into the forum.
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Yes I know the answer as to why people have added the game like that to their collection. I did the same thing when I signed up. And most people don't care enough about the different EU versions of a game, even if they are in EU. Or people in Australia will buy EU games or vice versa (since they are both PAL) or people in US with Canadian versions, etc. That is why I said it doesn't matter if people add the wrong thing into their collection. What they add is up to them what they add and should not be pressured to be specific if they don't want to.
However, managing an accurate database is a separate situation and does not really relate to what a person adds to their collection. We have moved onto this point of having the different versions because enough collectors wanted to have options for regional releases and variations.
There are many changes that could be made to how the site works. It would be preferrable to have a submission queue as well as an edit queue. Barcode field requirement would not work across the board, so that is a no. It would only help in an overhaul and it wouldn't solve issues with games already existing. And even so, this complaint of the system does not match with the example given. Unless you actually mean a user has to put in the EAN of an item in order to add it to their collection. In that case, it would be a no also, because many people end up with a loose item and may not have any way to know what the EAN should be. Especially the case for a EU disc based game, for Sony generally would put the same exact disc in many different boxes. Or many instances of items that do not have a barcode, such as pack-in items and NFRs.
The idea of just being able to put into your collection a "game title" and then have the option of an advanced mode where you can put all the different releases under that title has occurred to us, and I can even design such a system. However, these are only ideas and ultimately we must work within the current framework of the site as it is today. And hope someday the devs will want to take up the task of expanding the functionality of the site to handle some of these other complex issues we run into. A way to make it simple for the casual, or verbose for the hardcore collector.
Yep, I understand and I thought about it as well, it would be complicated to those that have a loose game or even digital content (like PSN or Steam). I also agree that you should have a submission queue, not that it has impact on me as user, but it would be easier for all of mods and devs.
But, yes, considering you can't touch the framework already created, some ideas might fall apart, at least for now.
I really thought that an item per edition should work better and each person could customize their profile and pictures the way they like the most. Other databases (more apps, actually) uses this system and it seems to be easier to control and are less complex to the user. Til the start of this topic, I didn't mind having a GOW III that it's not my version, but still the standard version of the game. Now, it seems that it's easier to submit a new item with the portuguese sticker and "problem solved".