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VGCollect Site Stuff => Video Game Database Discussion => Topic started by: tripredacus on April 28, 2021, 12:12:51 pm

Title: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on April 28, 2021, 12:12:51 pm
Please read the entire thread before choosing a poll option. Poll will run for 7 days (give or take) and the results will win out and become the rule. Users have the ability to change their vote. Rules in the Style Guide can be voted on again in the future or new ones can be brought. You can submit additional ideas to bring up for voting in this thread:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.0.html

This poll is specifically to determine as to which category a physical game release should be put in if the packaging features branding or compatibility information relating to more than 1 console release with a console release family. Multi-platform releases such as those for microcomputers (C64, Amstrad, Spectrum, etc) or game releases with peripheral requirements (such as Sega CD 32X) are not being considered at this time.

Examples
1. Xbox, Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox Series X titles often have co-branding on the front, sometimes showing multiple console names on the case or the cover, or may have a case/cover for a specific console and a label for another console. Most Xbox games will have text on the back to indicate which console the game is actually for, irrespective of what branding may exist on the front cover.

Gears Tactics (https://vgcollect.com/item/188571) has front text in the black box as "Xbox Series X - Xbox One" and an Xbox Series X label. On the back cover is the text: "For use only with Xbox One or new consoles with optical drive." The disc has the Xbox logo, and text "Xbox Series X - Xbox One" The game entry currently exists in the Xbox One [NA] category.

Bully Scholarship Edition (https://vgcollect.com/item/134306) has logos on the case for Xbox One and Xbox 360. It has text in the black bar on the cover "Plays on Xbox One and Xbox 360". It has text on the cover "Xbox 360 Game will download to Xbox One console." It has text on the back: "For use with Xbox 360 entertainment systems with NTSC designation." The disc has Xbox One and Xbox 360 logos. The game entry currently exists in the Xbox One [NA] category.

Sneak King (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/11185) has on the front cover only Xbox logo, but the cover design is based on the Xbox 360 design. Front cover has text "Includes Xbox 360 and Original Xbox Versions." Back cover has text "For use only with Original Xbox and Xbox 360 entertainment systems with NTSC designation." The game entry currently exists in the Xbox 360 [NA] category, but you can see on the history tab that the platform has been changed multiple times over the past 10 years.

2. PlayStation 4 games released with PlayStation 5 compatibility notes. These are games that are PS4 games that when used on a PS5, it will download the game from PSN. The PS4 disc is not playable on PS5.

Watch Dogs Legion (https://vgcollect.com/item/163318) has the PS4 cover design and logo at top. It has text on cover: "PS5 Upgrade Available." It has text on the back "Upgrade to the digital PS5 version of the game at no additional cost. To upgrade eligible PS4 disc copies, players need a PS5 console with a disc drive." and "Licensed for play on PS4 systems in the United States." The game disc has the PS4 branding. This game entry is currently in the PS4 [NA] category.

3. Atari 2600 red box releases are 2600 games that were released during the lifespan of the Atari 7800 and feature compatibility text on the packaging.

Venture (https://vgcollect.com/item/16650) has front cover text "Atari 2600 Video Game Cartridge." It has back text "For use with Atari 2600 and 7800 Series Systems." The cartridge label has text "Atari 2600 Video Game Cartridge" and "Atari 2600." This game entry is currently in the Atari 2600 [NA] category.

4. PlayStation games showing forward compatibility for PS2.

Kowai Shashin (https://vgcollect.com/item/100129) has text on obi-strip:
このソフトは
"PlayStation"
"PlayStation"(PS one)
"PlayStation 2"
のどれでも遊べます
It is currently in the PlayStation [JP] category

The choices are as follows:
Method 1: Co-branded games go in the category of the newest console
If an item has branding or mention of multiple consoles, the item will go into the category for the newer one.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox Series X
Bully Scholarship Edition -> Xbox One
Sneak King -> Xbox 360
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS5
Venture -> 7800
Kowai Shashin -> PS2

Method 2: Co-branded games go in the category of the oldest console
If an item has branding or mention of multiple consoles, the item will go into the category for the older one.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox One
Bully Scholarship Edition -> Xbox 360
Sneak King -> Xbox
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS4
Venture -> 2600
Kowai Shashin -> PS1

Method 3: Co-branded games that have compatibility info go into the category represented by that text, if compatibility text is not present then it goes into the category of the newer console
The "compatibility text" specified in this method is directly relating to games that specifically refer to a single console as being what the game is designed for. This relates mostly to the Xbox titles.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox One
Bully Scholarship Edition -> Xbox 360
Sneak King -> Xbox 360
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS4
Venture -> 7800
Kowai Shashin -> PS2

Method 5: Create co-branded game categories
Rather than having to continuously have edit battles or disagreements as to which category one of these types of games belongs to, we would create new categories for multi-branded games as needed. Now this option would also apply to computers and micro computers. NOTE: this would only apply to items that have branding or compatibility text, and would not allow all PS1 games to be put into a PS1 / PS2 category.
Implications using the Examples
Gears Tactics -> Xbox One / Xbox Series X
Bully Scholarship -> Xbox 360 / Xbox One
Sneak King -> Xbox / Xbox 360
Watch Dogs Legion -> PS4 / PS5
Kowai Shashin -> PS1 / PS2
additonally, it opens up these types of categories to be created as needed:
PC / MAC
PC / MAC / Linux
C64 / Amstrad
etc

You can change your mind and change your vote if you like. Poll is set for 10 days until expiration.

Original discussion thread is here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11382.0.html
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on April 28, 2021, 07:17:41 pm
Using the Watch Dogs: Legion - PlayStation 4 [NA] example to make a point, I'm curious how this will be handled if it does end up being classified as PlayStation 5 [NA]. It will need a descriptor as part of its entry name, for sure, on account of that it's been made clear that there is a PlayStation 4 version (https://vgcollect.com/item/163318) and a PlayStation 5 version (https://vgcollect.com/item/184852).
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on April 29, 2021, 09:57:18 am
I had considered adding another option, which would be the opposite of #3, changing newer to older. The issue was that with all of the co-branding examples we had found, the result was #3 with "older" had the same implications as #2.

And it may end up being messy, but if option 1 come out the winner, then it leaves us open to future votes for specific examples. This poll is really about the "general rule" for all item. In a scenario where option 1 is the new general rule, then a person could request a vote to classify PS4 with the PS5 compatibility text to be put into PS4 category.

Still none of these poll choices are going to resolve the issue or people creating entries in the "wrong" categories, but at least we will have something to tell us what categories they are supposed to be in so we can move items or merge dupes properly.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: retromangia on April 29, 2021, 11:35:03 am
I'll just throw out my opinion, right or wrong, and say I think we should file them under Newest Console, then just add their backwards compatibility under the compatibility text within that entry. 

Nice & simple  :)
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: ignition365 on April 29, 2021, 11:49:24 am
I think my opinion doesn't fall under any categories, so I went with the one that seemed the least wrong.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on April 29, 2021, 11:57:41 am
I'll just throw out my opinion, right or wrong, and say I think we should file them under Newest Console, then just add their backwards compatibility under the compatibility text within that entry. 

Nice & simple  :)

I think that, with whatever option is voted in, adding the appropriate text for further clarification within the Description field should be the protocol for all the items in question. This would help lessen the amount of attempts to re-categorize the items.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: emporerdragon on April 29, 2021, 01:06:52 pm
I think my opinion doesn't fall under any categories, so I went with the one that seemed the least wrong.

Same. 1 is the closest for me, but the one I really'd disagree with the most is the Watch Dogs example. To me, it's a PS4 game with a free download of a PS5 game. By contrast, Gears Tactics contains both the One and Series X versions of the game, but as it's branded with a Series X box, it would be considered a Series X game.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: weirdfeline on April 29, 2021, 11:48:56 pm
Marking a game like Watch Dogs Legion which is clearly a PS4 version as a PS5 game would be very stupid.

It's also not true that the PS4 version can't be played on PS5. You can choose between playing PS4 or PS5. I don't think it auto downloads either you have to "purchase" the digital PS5 version for free from the store unless they've changed it since launch.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on April 30, 2021, 09:50:45 am
The contents of the game disc, or what the console does when you insert the disc is beyond the scope of this poll and should not be considered. The entries we are talking about are a plastic case with a disc inside. The question is, what is the category these physical items should be put into?

And this poll is for general rule for the Style Guide. If the consensus is that the poll option that wins is good for general rule, but not good for say PS4 games with a PS5 sticker, then we can certainly consider adding a separate rule that excludes PS4 games. Obviously, this issue with what category to put games into seems solely an Xbox issue, and those items are going to be the one that primarily benefit from actually setting a multi-platform rule into the Style Guide.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: leonefamily on April 30, 2021, 11:11:59 pm
It's nice to see an actual poll being made about it since it is an issue that I brought to attention a few months ago. I'm unsure what option would be best to choose, but my general goal would be to follow the box style. For instance, GTA San: Andreas on 360 has 2 versions, the 360 "DVD sized" box and the later version branded as 360 & ONE featuring the ONE box style. Sure, the disc ISO is the same I believe, but since the box style of the second version follows the ONE style, it should be under Xbox One. Same for Xbox demo discs, a portion of them play on both the original Xbox and Xbox 360, but when I tasked myself with cleaning up the Xbox Demo section in the database 2 years ago (and I'm still not done yet) I treated those releases as 360 Demo and not OG Xbox Demo. And finally, the fact that this is already how most of us did things in the database, it is logical to keep it this way. But yes, the opposite would be true, in the case of that Watch Dogs Legion release for instance, it's definetly a PS4 game, who cares that the PS5 can still play it, it's called retrocompatibility. If there's a PS4 logo, it's a PS4 release. If there's a PS5 logo, it's a PS5 release. If there's both logos but the box style is closer to one console, we should list it under that console. And as for those ONE/Series cross-platform releases, both logos are there and the box style is exactly the same between both consoles, so you have to view the retrocompatibility argument. If it plays in both consoles it just means that it's a Xbox One game and it's simply recognised as a Xbox One game internally when inserted in a Xbox Series and your game is merely played on retrocompability mode. That's the way I see it, but yeah blurring the line between game generations is causing a lot of problems for archivists and I hate this trend.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: aliensstudios on May 01, 2021, 10:57:29 am
I'll go with the rule of: lowest common denominator. At the end of the day these are Xbox 360 game discs that happen to be compatible with Xbox One. Until such a time as we can have single items be in two separate categories, I think that this is the best option.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: ignition365 on May 01, 2021, 10:29:29 pm
It's nice to see an actual poll being made about it since it is an issue that I brought to attention a few months ago. I'm unsure what option would be best to choose, but my general goal would be to follow the box style. For instance, GTA San: Andreas on 360 has 2 versions, the 360 "DVD sized" box and the later version branded as 360 & ONE featuring the ONE box style. Sure, the disc ISO is the same I believe, but since the box style of the second version follows the ONE style, it should be under Xbox One. Same for Xbox demo discs, a portion of them play on both the original Xbox and Xbox 360, but when I tasked myself with cleaning up the Xbox Demo section in the database 2 years ago (and I'm still not done yet) I treated those releases as 360 Demo and not OG Xbox Demo. And finally, the fact that this is already how most of us did things in the database, it is logical to keep it this way. But yes, the opposite would be true, in the case of that Watch Dogs Legion release for instance, it's definetly a PS4 game, who cares that the PS5 can still play it, it's called retrocompatibility. If there's a PS4 logo, it's a PS4 release. If there's a PS5 logo, it's a PS5 release. If there's both logos but the box style is closer to one console, we should list it under that console. And as for those ONE/Series cross-platform releases, both logos are there and the box style is exactly the same between both consoles, so you have to view the retrocompatibility argument. If it plays in both consoles it just means that it's a Xbox One game and it's simply recognised as a Xbox One game internally when inserted in a Xbox Series and your game is merely played on retrocompability mode. That's the way I see it, but yeah blurring the line between game generations is causing a lot of problems for archivists and I hate this trend.
This was the option I wanted essentially.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: pzeke on May 02, 2021, 10:10:57 am
As I once suggested (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10555.msg188122.html#msg188122), these type of releases should be categorized under the consoles they're for, as in an entry for any given game showing the platforms it's for. In other words, a game like Sneak King showing it's for both "Xbox" and "Xbox 360". This obviously wouldn't apply to backward compatible games, meaning a PS1 game remains a PS1 game.

Now that's an update I feel is far more practical and serviceable than a "now playing" and "backlog" lists.

Marking a game like Watch Dogs Legion which is clearly a PS4 version as a PS5 game would be very stupid.

As would be categorizing what's clearly a PS1 game as a PS2 game. Beyond stupid.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on May 03, 2021, 10:41:42 am
in the case of that Watch Dogs Legion release for instance, it's definetly a PS4 game, who cares that the PS5 can still play it, it's called retrocompatibility. If there's a PS4 logo, it's a PS4 release. If there's a PS5 logo, it's a PS5 release.

Since this poll is just for the over-arching rule and the fact that there are instances that would conflict with "common sense" I will consider creating additional polls following the conclusion of this one.

Method 1 winner
- create poll specifically for PS4 games with PS5 compatibility text

Method 2 winner
- create poll specifically for Xbox games with compatibility text on the back cover

Unless I've got it backwards, this should sufficiently handle to two main points of contention. It does leave outliers like the PS1 game that says you can play it on a PS2 if Method 1 ends up being the winner.

Or... perhaps make those two polls regardless of which method ends up being the winner. Let me know if this changes any thoughts you have on what would be the better "general rule" if we could then make platform specific rules for these two types of items. After all, we do have a platform specific rule for item numbers.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on May 07, 2021, 04:08:08 pm
Bump
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on May 10, 2021, 10:41:57 am
There was a tie. We will need a revote since it seems the options are not good enough to get a consensus.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: leonefamily on May 14, 2021, 09:18:57 pm
This feels like the U.S. elections, every option is crap. I would tend to go towards option 3 because it has the most examples that give sense but then you get to the Kowai Shashin example which should absolutely NOT be considered as a PS2 game, wtf.

Honestly a mix of option 2 and option 3 would be preferable.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on May 14, 2021, 10:34:09 pm
This feels like the U.S. elections, every option is crap. I would tend to go towards option 3 because it has the most examples that give sense but then you get to the Kowai Shashin example which should absolutely NOT be considered as a PS2 game, wtf.

Honestly a mix of option 2 and option 3 would be preferable.

Prior to when polling was conducted, there was a discussion thread (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11382.0.html) that went on for roughly three weeks where the community was able to voice their opinions and possible solutions to how these items should be categorized. Seeing how the initial poll has ended in a tie, I'm sure everyone would welcome the idea to more possible solutions before a subsequent poll is created. Is there anything that you have in mind?

Also, as tripredacus has already mentioned, whatever option the community does eventually vote for, the rule is just a general guideline.


And this poll is for general rule for the Style Guide. If the consensus is that the poll option that wins is good for general rule, but not good for say PS4 games with a PS5 sticker, then we can certainly consider adding a separate rule that excludes PS4 games. Obviously, this issue with what category to put games into seems solely an Xbox issue, and those items are going to be the one that primarily benefit from actually setting a multi-platform rule into the Style Guide.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on May 27, 2021, 09:42:13 am
Not counting that extra vote that came in after the tie (somehow the poll did not re-expire as it was supposed to) I think we can ignore the general ruling for now and concentrate on the big issues that brought this poll in the first place. That being Xbox games and the PS4/PS5 compatible games.

If we run a new poll or two new polls, what do you think of these options:

Xbox Games
- use newest console named
- use console named in text on back or oldest if not present
- make co-branded categories

PS4 with PS5 compatibility
- put into PS4
- put into PS5
- make co-branded categories
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 07, 2021, 10:32:02 am
BUMP
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on June 07, 2021, 11:35:08 am

Xbox Games
- use newest console named
- use console named in text on back or oldest if not present
- make co-branded categories

For the poll option segment in bold, what would be the action taken for items that explicitly list both Xbox One and Xbox Series X, instead of "Xbox One or new consoles with optical drive?" The items would be categorized as the oldest platform mentioned still?
Sniper Ghost Warrior Contracts 2 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/353521591378) | Star Wars: Squadrons (https://www.ebay.com/itm/254984090151)


PS4 with PS5 compatibility
- put into PS4
- put into PS5
- make co-branded categories

It goes without saying, but those stray PlayStation titles that list PlayStation 2 compatibility should also be included here.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 07, 2021, 12:20:07 pm
The Sniper Ghost Warrior example has text "Xbox One game playable on Xbox Series X" so I think it is clear what that is.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on June 07, 2021, 12:34:25 pm
The Sniper Ghost Warrior example has text "Xbox One game playable on Xbox Series X" so I think it is clear what that is.

I agree. Although, since the front cover does mention Xbox Series X, there will be people who argue for that categorization. However, here's a better example (https://www.ebay.com/itm/274810836936) without the "Xbox One game playable on Xbox Series X" text. So, what are the implications for items like this with Xbox's poll option 2?
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: leonefamily on June 07, 2021, 09:52:31 pm
I'm a bit late for response, but generally I would just prefer to use the box style as the determinant of what console it's listed under. Sneak King is stylised like a 360 box so that's 360. Red Dead Redemption (360/ONE) has a ONE box style, so list it under ONE. I think that would work well because anyways it would correlate with, for instance, the cleaning up I did (and am still not finished to this day) on the Xbox / 360 demo discs. Demo discs that are playable on both consoles have a 360 look to them so I listed them under 360.

But that wouldn't really solve the ONE/XSX issue as those two retain the very same box style. That why, in this case, I would agree to default to listing under the oldest console, being Xbox One in this case and the poll shows that people would agree with this.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 08, 2021, 10:02:34 am
Does the current poll outcome cause any big problems for anything that you can think of?

It may be better to just adopt that officially, then take future issues as they come instead of trying to force everything through right this second.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: ignition365 on June 08, 2021, 11:49:21 am
I'm a bit late for response, but generally I would just prefer to use the box style as the determinant of what console it's listed under. Sneak King is stylised like a 360 box so that's 360. Red Dead Redemption (360/ONE) has a ONE box style, so list it under ONE. I think that would work well because anyways it would correlate with, for instance, the cleaning up I did (and am still not finished to this day) on the Xbox / 360 demo discs. Demo discs that are playable on both consoles have a 360 look to them so I listed them under 360.

But that wouldn't really solve the ONE/XSX issue as those two retain the very same box style. That why, in this case, I would agree to default to listing under the oldest console, being Xbox One in this case and the poll shows that people would agree with this.
This is exactly what I had been saying, none of the options followed this paradigm.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 09, 2021, 09:32:03 am
Old text from Adv Guide in the Platform post

Quote
Games Released for multiple or co-branded platforms
There are some instances where a game release has multiple branding or compatibilities listed. In older titles this was mostly seen for micros, but has also become more common as modern consoles enter transition periods. In these instances, the game should be put into the category for the newer console.

Examples
- Xbox 360 / Xbox One co-branding: should go into Xbox One category. See Bully - Scholarship Edition (https://vgcollect.com/item/134306)
- Xbox One / Xbox Series X co-branding: should go into Xbox Series X category. See Gears Tactics (https://vgcollect.com/item/188571)
- PlayStation 4 / PlayStation 5 co-branding: should go into PlayStation 5 category. See Need Example

Games where another platform is marked as compatible
There are some game releases for a specific platform, but mention compatibility for another platform on the packaging. These types of items should be put into the category that the release is meant for, and to note the compatibility in Description field, and put the relevant compatibility text into Box Text.

Examples
- Xbox One branding with Xbox Series X compatibility note, should go into Xbox One category. See The Dark Pictures: Little Hope (https://vgcollect.com/item/188356)
- PS4 branding with PS5 compatibility note, should go into PS4 category. See Watch Dogs: Legion (https://vgcollect.com/item/163318)

New text (pending)

Quote
Games Released for multiple or co-branded platforms
There are some instances where a game release has multiple console branding or compatibilities listed. In these instances, the game should be put into the category for the older console.

Examples
- Atari 2600 / 7800 co-compatibility: should go into the Atari 2600 (VCS) category. See Venture (https://vgcollect.com/item/16650)
- PS One / PS2 co-branding: should go into the PlayStation category. See Kowai Shashin (https://vgcollect.com/item/100129)
- Xbox / Xbox 360 co-compatibility: should go into the Xbox category. See Sneak King (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/11185)
- Xbox 360 / Xbox One co-branding: should go into Xbox 360 category. See Bully - Scholarship Edition (https://vgcollect.com/item/134306)
- Xbox One / Xbox Series X co-branding: should go into Xbox One category. See Gears Tactics (https://vgcollect.com/item/188571)
- Xbox One branding with Xbox Series X compatibility note, should go into Xbox One category. See The Dark Pictures: Little Hope (https://vgcollect.com/item/188356)
- PS4 branding with PS5 compatibility note, should go into PS4 category. See Watch Dogs: Legion (https://vgcollect.com/item/163318)

Using the examples in the first post of this thread and the examples already in the Adv Guide, everything matches up to where things currently are except for Sneak King.

If this change looks good, I will put it into the Adv Guide. It will go in tomorrow morning so let me know before then if I made an error.

And as always, remember that this can be brought up as a revote, as well as new vote suggestions can be submitted to handle a subset of this (such as if you think the general rule is ok but not good for x example) or if some time has passed and you want to see if people maybe have a different opinion and see if we would support switching things up, etc.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: ignition365 on June 09, 2021, 10:50:11 am
Quote
Games Released for multiple or co-branded platforms
There are some instances where a game release has multiple console branding or compatibilities listed. In these instances, the game should be put into the category for the newer console.

Examples
- Atari 2600 / 7800 co-compatibility: should go into the Atari 2600 (VCS) category. See Venture (https://vgcollect.com/item/16650)
- PS One / PS2 co-branding: should go into the PlayStation category. See Kowai Shashin (https://vgcollect.com/item/100129)
- Xbox / Xbox 360 co-compatibility: should go into the Xbox category. See Sneak King (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/11185)
- Xbox 360 / Xbox One co-branding: should go into Xbox 360 category. See Bully - Scholarship Edition (https://vgcollect.com/item/134306)
- Xbox One / Xbox Series X co-branding: should go into Xbox One category. See Gears Tactics (https://vgcollect.com/item/188571)
- Xbox One branding with Xbox Series X compatibility note, should go into Xbox One category. See The Dark Pictures: Little Hope (https://vgcollect.com/item/188356)
- PS4 branding with PS5 compatibility note, should go into PS4 category. See Watch Dogs: Legion (https://vgcollect.com/item/163318)
Is this correct?  You say newer, but the examples show going into the older.

If I'm not mistaken, the BK games are an interesting conundrum in that the disc actually contains two games.  The Xbox and the Xbox 360 versions are actually different games.  When played in an OG Xbox it is an Xbox game, but when it's played on a 360 it is an Xbox 360 game fully with the Xbox 360 startup splash screen and achievements.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 09, 2021, 12:16:18 pm
Ah, it is because I copied the sentence from the current text to make the new text and forgot to change the word. I edited the post so it should say "older" so thanks for pointing that out.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: dhaabi on June 09, 2021, 06:20:46 pm
If I'm not mistaken, the BK games are an interesting conundrum in that the disc actually contains two games.  The Xbox and the Xbox 360 versions are actually different games.  When played in an OG Xbox it is an Xbox game, but when it's played on a 360 it is an Xbox 360 game fully with the Xbox 360 startup splash screen and achievements.

Perhaps the style guide can add some clarity for items that represent two platforms? I've come across items similar to Sneak King such as PlayStation demo releases, although these items include two separate discs—one for PlayStation and one for PlayStation 2. In these specific instances, I've always categorized the entries as PlayStation 2.

However, this is something that, while at times connected to the problem at-hand, is largely separate from what this thread is about.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 10, 2021, 09:34:48 am
Platform post in Adv Guide updated.
News thread updated.

Sneak King entry updated.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: leonefamily on June 10, 2021, 09:04:05 pm
Sorry for my super late forum responses lately. Yes it kinda causes problems to just use the oldest platform for a few things. Yes, it's good for some platforms especially the ONE/XSX co-branding (it is a fantastic solution) but it causes issue for the Sneak King example since it has 360 box style but now it's been changed to OG xbox, and the same would apply for the demo discs which co-branded versions look more like 360 discs but now they would become just og xbox. It would also cause issue for stuff like the Red Dead Redemption 360/ONE version since it has ONE box style but now would become 360, further complicating the 360 category as there are already plenty of different 360 versions of RDR there. Lots of people who would see the box at first glance wouldn't realise it's not JUST a ONE game (although it's clearly written Xbox 360 / Xbox One with big white letters) and I can personally confirm this as, it is time for me to make a big reveal, I manage the electronics department at the largest Walmart store of central Québec. I can ATTEST that most people don't even take the time to read and just assume it's only a Xbox One game just by taking a look at the box style. Even worse, the manufacturers who send me the stuff, as well as all of our own internal systems, always refer to those games as XO (walmart's abbreviation of Xbox one) not only on all the 360/ONE co-branded items but also on the ONE/XSX titles, while 360 titles used to have their own category obviously and XSX only games are indeed referred as XSX in our internal systems.

TLDR listing as older console will not always give the best results. Could be used for the ONE/XSX titles but for the rest it should just be something like "Co-branded titles should be listed under the console which the box size/style most closely resembles". But that's just my personal opinion  ;D
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on June 11, 2021, 09:24:16 am
It was a close vote, so people are really split on it. I think that no matter which option had come out on top, there would be equal amount of complaints about it. This is really just a situation where a different behaviour or design of how the site works with the data (ie: how it is displayed to the user) would be the ideal way to remedy things like this.

Especially since there still is no real way to handle true multi-platform things, such as accessories that with with Sega/Nintendo or Playstation/Xbox/PC (because it is USB) or Micros/SMS or the multi-platform Micro games that were mentioned earlier. At least for accessories we have a generic category we put them in.
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: n64ra on September 21, 2021, 11:45:18 am
It was a close vote, so people are really split on it. I think that no matter which option had come out on top, there would be equal amount of complaints about it. This is really just a situation where a different behaviour or design of how the site works with the data (ie: how it is displayed to the user) would be the ideal way to remedy things like this.

Especially since there still is no real way to handle true multi-platform things, such as accessories that with with Sega/Nintendo or Playstation/Xbox/PC (because it is USB) or Micros/SMS or the multi-platform Micro games that were mentioned earlier. At least for accessories we have a generic category we put them in.

What was the final tally for each category? Had I realized there was a vote, I would have picked the way the manufacturer marketed the game. With a close vote, the correct answer is let each user decided how the data is displayed to them individually at the game level. For two examples, I want Gears Tactics as Xbox One (older console) and Sneak King as Xbox 360 (newer console). Why not have two entries in the database for Gears Tactics, one on Xbox One and the other on Series X, saying this is the same game just you the user are selecting the one you want in your collection?
Title: Re: Style Guide Poll #6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement
Post by: tripredacus on September 21, 2021, 12:27:15 pm
It is imperfect the way it is but that is how the site currently works. So we have to have these types of "rules" so we can properly manage the data. We can only ask the devs to come up with a different solution.

As for why not two entries, well because then they would be dupes. And it wouldn't make sense to do it that way, to create duplicates of almost all of the Xbox titles between the different categories. Why then bothing having a category for each platform and just have 1 ginormous Xbox platform? Shall we also be creating up to 6 dupes for third party accessories that are branded for multiple consoles and computers? What about creating dupe entries for all of the Master System games that can be played on the Genesis using the Power Base Converter or Game Boy games that can be played on SNES? I say no thanks to that, it is difficult enough to manage the database with just 1 of each thing.