VGCollect Forum
VGCollect Site Stuff => Site Feedback => Topic started by: tripredacus on June 13, 2017, 10:18:02 am
-
We are going to start running polls as a better way to get user concensus regarding changes that should be made to the Style Guide. This thread, created in Site Feedback section, is for people to put future questions they want a poll to be made from. If any of these ideas were previously discussed in a thread, please put a link to those posts.
This is only for the Style Guide itself and not for anything that would require additional programming on the site. Polls will not be regular and will run for about a week when created.
Vote 1: Images for items without packaging (voting expires June 20, 2017)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8362.0.html
Vote 2: Retail game and gift cards (voting expires September 7, 2017)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8544.0.html
Vote 3: Game Titles (voting expires August 9, 2018)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9281.0.html
Vote 4: Game/Accessory Pack category placement (voting expires January 24, 2019)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9965.0.html
Vote 5: Pack-in Games from Games (voting expires on December 18, 2020)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11218.0.html
Vote 6: Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement (voting expires on May 8, 2021)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11413.0.html
Vote 7: Editions and the Hyphen (poll expiration disabled, plan to manually close on May 26, 2022)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11879.0.html
Poll Research 3: Clarification of Game Titles
discussion begins here: https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.msg156632.html#msg156632
Common Name Exception Poll #1: Formula 1 (voting expires September 18, 2018)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9352.new.html
Common Name Exception Poll #2: Pro Evolution Soccer (voting expires October 08, 2018)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9399.0.html
Common Name Exception Poll #3: Sangokushi vs San Goku Shi (will manually close May 26, 2022)
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11880.0.html
Common Name Exception Poll #4: James Bond 007
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,12395.0.html
-
I'm a little confused by this, what kind of poll idea would be appropriate? The ones that I can think of are Japanese names, which got largely resolved, and naming conventions/ PS classics, which would probably need more programming, right?
Like that time when we were talking about Shantae's reversible cover art, would that be one?
Also, can I reply in the actual poll thread about the topic at hand?
-
Yes you can reply to the poll topic itself about what it was created for.
This thread is for people to post questions to be resolved in future polls.
-
Can you change your answer to a poll after you submit it? Sorry for all the questions ;)
-
It is currently not set to change your vote.
-
New poll thoughts. If there is an item that contains or otherwise has a code for a digital game, how should it be entered in the database?
Here are a couple examples that it really pertains to, and it was also discussed with some game boxes that just have a code in it in the thread below.
https://vgcollect.com/item/131172
https://vgcollect.com/item/131174
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,7418.0.html
Some options for answers that I thought of:
1. Item remains in physical section as is
2. Item is moved to swag, in essence splitting the game that you get from the code into the digital category as a separate item, while the physical card is in the swag category.
The other question is what swag category does it even go in. Any other thoughts that you guys may have?
-
New poll thoughts. If there is an item that contains or otherwise has a code for a digital game, how should it be entered in the database?
Here are a couple examples that it really pertains to, and it was also discussed with some game boxes that just have a code in it in the thread below.
https://vgcollect.com/item/131172
https://vgcollect.com/item/131174
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,7418.0.html
Some options for answers that I thought of:
1. Item remains in physical section as is
2. Item is moved to swag, in essence splitting the game that you get from the code into the digital category as a separate item, while the physical card is in the swag category.
That is a pretty good subject, it's been on my mind for a while since i have the Collector's Edition of Child of Light in my collection and i don't really know in what category it should be. This is basically a box with a code inside, a PSN key that once you use it you will be able to download the game on both the PS3 and PS4, so it's a game for two different platforms. This is a PSN game but this is also a physical item so it doesn't belong in the PSN section (since those section are digital only... and even if we make an exception for that case, in which section should we put it ? in the PSN for the PS3 or for the PS4... :-\).
For now that edition is in both physical section (PS3 & PS4):
https://vgcollect.com/item/81344 (PS3 - AU)
https://vgcollect.com/item/78189 (PS4 - AU)
https://vgcollect.com/item/59239 (PS3 - EU)
https://vgcollect.com/item/59238 (PS4 - EU)
https://vgcollect.com/item/127209 (PS3 - EU - ES version)
https://vgcollect.com/item/127208 (PS4 - EU - ES version)
I was going to add the FR version but i think i will wait to see what we are going to do with this type of items.
I have another case to talk about, Portal 2 for PS3, the game is on the disk, everything is cool on that side but the box of that game also contain a key to unlock the Steam version... so this is a PS3 version but also a PC version (since a code in a box is apparently considered as a game) ? I just wanted to bring that up but i think we should leave it as it is in the PS3 section and put a note in the Description field that it also contain a Steam key, this is a pretty isolated case so we can make an exception.
-
Firstly, one of those Fallout Season Pass listings need to be deleted... specifically the one listed as an Original Xbox game.
Personally, I throw away those cards after I use them, so I would add the digital title to my collection. So for Portal, I would add Portal to my Steam category. For Child of Light, I would add Child of Light to my PSN (PS4) and PSN (PS3) collections. The box itself with the swag I would add to the Swag category as we have done for other games like this. The Season Pass for Fallout isn't a game any way you look at it, it is DLC, I've seen DLC listings on the site, so I'd list it the same as a digital X1 game XbOne Store blah blah blah.
If you are actually interested in collecting the little PoS cards, then I guess go ahead, but it definitely goes under Swag, it isn't a game and doesn't represent a game. It isn't reasonable for it to be under the physical game category and it isn't reasonable for it to be under the digital category.
-
Well it seems like we have pretty good consensus on what to do. I guess I'm wondering what category under swag would this stuff fit? I don't know if any of the current categories make sense, haha.
Or would it go in the "other" category?
-
Specifically about the game cards on their own... Not including games sold in boxes with no media but with codes inside...
1. Put Game card into physical game category
2. Put Game card into swag category
3. Create a new category to put cards like this
4. This item should not be in the database at this time.
This has nothing to do with the digital portion that the card represents, because that can be determined by the user. As ignition says put game into digital category, but don't care about the extra thing. A user can always have this choice.
Types of cards that could be allowed if a new category would be made would include Store Gift Cards that are game related, Retail Game Cards (such as League of Legends or Minecraft), Currency cards (Steam wallet, PSN or XBox Points), Guest Passes (inserted in Blizzard games), or any other examples.
The games without actual games inside shouldn't actually matter. If you have a game with just a code inside, if it is in a normal box then it is fine to put it into the normal game category. The software the code unlocks should be in the appropriate digital game category.
So take a look at the options I put above and if you can think of any other options, then I will make the vote thread.
-
That looks fine to me!
-
The poll is created. I had to change the first option because it wouldn't make sense to put currency cards into a physical game category. Other than that it is about the same.
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8544.0.html
I also left out the Guest Passes from my original post, because I omit all pack-in cards for this question.
-
Specifically about the game cards on their own... Not including games sold in boxes with no media but with codes inside...
1. Put Game card into physical game category
2. Put Game card into swag category
3. Create a new category to put cards like this
4. This item should not be in the database at this time.
This has nothing to do with the digital portion that the card represents, because that can be determined by the user. As ignition says put game into digital category, but don't care about the extra thing. A user can always have this choice.
Types of cards that could be allowed if a new category would be made would include Store Gift Cards that are game related, Retail Game Cards (such as League of Legends or Minecraft), Currency cards (Steam wallet, PSN or XBox Points), Guest Passes (inserted in Blizzard games), or any other examples.
The games without actual games inside shouldn't actually matter. If you have a game with just a code inside, if it is in a normal box then it is fine to put it into the normal game category. The software the code unlocks should be in the appropriate digital game category.
So take a look at the options I put above and if you can think of any other options, then I will make the vote thread.
Im sorry i have to say this, but options 4, why? We allow movies for the PSP and other consoles, that is less game related then a season pass.
And where it should go, i dont know. so i wont vote...... again
-
Because someone might think so. That is why it is a choice.
Anyways, I left this post up for some time and had no more response to it, so I had made the poll. If you have another idea we can try a revote again in the future.
PS: Note I chose the wording "at this time" in Option 4, to not preclude it from being used in the future.
-
Because someone might think so. That is why it is a choice.
Anyways, I left this post up for some time and had no more response to it, so I had made the poll. If you have another idea we can try a revote again in the future.
PS: Note I chose the wording "at this time" in Option 4, to not preclude it from being used in the future.
Using the words 'at this time' isnt going to work. You now started a vote, when you know that if option 4 is voted a winner, next week someone will ad a season pass. Next month someone will ad a season pass, etc.
They are here deal with it is the saying.
-
I want to run a new poll, to take care of one of the largest omissions from the style guide. Specifically, what names games have.
Current Style Guide:
Game Titles:
Use the item's regional release title, written in the language written on the case, but in the Latin alphabet (the letters we commonly use). If the title is in Japanese, use the most recognized transliteration.
- Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (NA)
- Dragon Quest VIII: The Journey of the Cursed King (EU)
- Dragon Quest VIII: Sora to Umi to Daichi to Norowareshi Himegimi (JP)
Here are the options for the poll:
1. Use common name
Common name can be easily determined by looking at the item in hand. This name may be from the front, spine or copyright text on the item. In order to enforce this naming policy, we will be required to have a list of approved sources for validating names. For example: Mobygames.com, Gamefaqs, Sega/Sonic/NECRetro.org.
There would be some exceptions to this rule, and that would be situations where some games have title arrangements that do no exist on the game itself. For example, the recent release of Mega Man Legacy Collection on Switch is often represented on other websites as "1+2" but this is not how it is rendered on the item itself. All other style guide rules have priority over the use on other websites.
To enact this rule would be to remove the perceived requirement to enforce full titles, such as having Disney/Pixar, M Night Shamalan or excessive colon usage. We can then treat item titles loosly enough so that if a game is titled according to our style requirements, and is backed up by the name on one of our "approved sources" then it should be enough. We should still use alternate spellings and whatnot in alt-name field. Full title may be put into description.
2. Full front title as it appears
The game title will be the full front title as it appears on the game's case if applicable. This would require that all Disney/Pixar/Dreamworks/M Night Shamalayn have those prefix. All games with stylzed logos (even those with kerning errors) such as Mega Man become Megaman. Games with mostly unused front titles would be correct, such as .hack/sign series.
Common title would go into alt-name.
Not applicable
- Spine title: some games do not have a spine title
- Spine first, front second, media third: rule tracking per game would be difficult
- RDA Primary Proper Title of using a game's Title Screen is not applicable as we do not track individual softwares, rather physical items and would not create a general enough ruling format for compilations, or games without title screens.
- RDA Secondary Propert Title of using a game's title as printed on the physical media does not take in account for games with no titles on the media, or physical games sold without media.
Please add other ideas for poll options here
I don't think we should just have 2 poll choices, so let's hear what other ideas you have. Perhaps we can put the "spine first, front second" option as #3, but before considering that as a choice to put up for voting, you would need to determine a system to properly handle that, both for users to reference and for admins to implement.
-
With option two, the other big change would be that all Japanese games in Katakana and everything in Korean would need to be transliterated.
So for example, this game's name would need to be Sonikku Adobencha DX: Derakkusu (If we are sticking with things needing to be in Latin characters), or ソニックアドベンチャー DX:デラックス if we really want to use it "as it appears on the box"
https://vgcollect.com/item/99231
For Korea, this game would either need to be Byeolui Keobi: Teulipeul Dileogseu or 별의별커비 : 트리플 디럭스
https://vgcollect.com/item/111912
I've already stated how much I oppose using the full front title so I'll just post a link (http://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8857.msg155839.html#msg155839) to my thoughts here ;) Obviously if people vote in the other direction I'll concede though.
EDIT: And it's not just simply Mega Man to MegaMan, it's a lot, lot more, so I hope a lot of people vote on this at the very least (and read my post, as long as it is)
-
I suggest everyone read "Best Practices for Cataloging Video Games, Using RDA and MARC21, Version 1.1, April 2018" found at https://www.olacinc.org/sites/default/files/Video%20Game%20Best%20Practices-April-2018%20Revision-a.pdf (https://www.olacinc.org/sites/default/files/Video%20Game%20Best%20Practices-April-2018%20Revision-a.pdf)
Especially the following sections:
II. General Characteristics of Video Games
Platforms and Formats .......
Editions and Expansions ......
Locating Credits and Title Information ......
IV. Describing the Resource
A. Attributes of Manifestation and Item (RDA Section 1)
1. Mode of Issuance
2. Comprehensive, Analytical, Hierarchical Description
3. Guidelines on Transcription
4. Title (RDA 2.3)
5. Statement of Responsibility (RDA 2.4)
6. Edition Statements (RDA 2.5)
VI. Resources
Online (Section), that lists:
Gamer Group
http://gamer.ischool.uw.edu/ (http://gamer.ischool.uw.edu/).
Good Old Games
http://www.gog.com/ (http://www.gog.com/)
Moby Games
http://www.mobygames.com/ (http://www.mobygames.com/)
Play Asia
http://www.play-asia.com/ (http://www.play-asia.com/)
Steam
http://store.steampowered.com/ (http://store.steampowered.com/)
-
Recording the title proper
Record the title proper from the source of information. Do not transcribe introductory words
that are clearly not intended to be part of the title (RDA 2.3.1.6). If considered important, this
information may be given as a variant title or note. However, names in the possessive case
preceding the title are considered an integral part of the title and should be included (RDA
2.3.1.5).
245 00 $a Ratatouille.
246 00 $i Title appears on cartridge label as: $a Disney Pixar
Ratatouille
(246 is optional)
So Disney/Pixar would not be included, but possessive words like Tony Hawk's or Tom Clancy's would be according to this.
-
I bring to your attention
https://vgcollect.com/search/resident%20evil%204
Technically, under the full front title (or even the spine) this should be listed as "4 Resident Evil"
-
I bring to your attention
https://vgcollect.com/search/resident%20evil%204
Technically, under the full front title (or even the spine) this should be listed as "4 Resident Evil"
Yes this and then there would be Resident Evil 0 Zero (or is that Resident Evil Zero 0?) with Biohazard alternatives...
I've looked through the RDA document, and it has some major issues even for a library system. It presumes that both physical media in physical package exists and that title screens exist. Using title screen titles for Item Title is not something we can be doing, as many times a game may not have a title screen, or the title screen has a different title than the game itself. (Or worse, there are typos in it!) That guide is designed for an existing system. As you can tell from just the title sections, it uses an attribute field for the title to note where the title comes from. This would be a great resource if VGCollect were set up in the format it was written for.
Overall, I cannot see anything in this PDF to indicate what a 3rd choice to the upcoming poll would be.
-
Yeah I agree with not using the title screen as naming, though that PDF says you can use the physical media as a back iirc. Makes me wonder why even bother, just use the physical media haha
-
Ok... is this same thing why .hack//Quarantine is named incorrectly?
-
Ok... is this same thing why .hack//Quarantine is named incorrectly?
Most of the .hack//Quarantine entries in teh DB are named based on the title on the front. This is different than the name on the spine, which is how it is typically referenced on other websites. It is not named incorrectly. I think that if we end up using common names at all, the "Part 4" would need to be omitted from that, since even Gamefaqs calls the game .hack//Quarantine Part 4. It is not the 4th part of the Quarantine series, it is the 4th part of the .hack series. ::)
-
If there is no additional ideas posted, the Poll will be created on Wednesday August 1st and will run for 7 days.
-
A day late! here it is:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9281.new.html
-
.
-
TLD in item titles are to indicate release country and not languages.
There are games released in the US that are in English, French and/or Spanish, but no TLD is used. For instances where there are an English game and a "variant" with English/French, the English/French is [CA] for Canada. We do not put [FR] on this entry because they were not sold in France. For games that were sold in the US and contain spanish, we do not put [ES] on the title because they were not sold in Spain.
A European example. Right Racer Type 4 for Playstation, specific version released in Spain, Greece and Portugal:
https://vgcollect.com/item/149247
Languages on the back of the case are Spanish, Portugese, Greek and English.
There is no TLD for English, there is [UK], however this game was not sold in UK.
Another European example. Aliens: Colonial Marines for PS3 was sold in German language case in Germany with USK rating and in Austria with PEGI rating.
https://vgcollect.com/item/98309
We do not put [DE] on the title for the Austrian version because it was sold in Austria, not Germany.
Rules for TLD use are not in the Style Guide and should be. The possible poll voting I can see are:
1. Expected order of TLD: alphabetical or in order of representative language on case*
2. Expected formatting of multiple TLD: separate TLD as (example) [FR][UK] or use combined (example) [FR/UK]
-
.
-
*Updated option 1. Summary:
Arrange TLD in title based on representative order of languages on the case. A game title may be [SE][DK][FI][NO] if the languages on the back are arranged as Swedish, Danish, Finnish and Norweigan, in that order.
We have this item, Shinobi on PS2 for Scandinavian region:
https://vgcollect.com/item/119651
Which agozer made as Shinobi [DK][FI][NO][SE].
But on the back of the game itself, on the main text descriptions and in the requirements, the order is [SE][DK][FI][NO]
http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps2/shinobi-/cover-art/gameCoverId,51459/
Here is Killzone on PS2:
https://vgcollect.com/item/127267
Which jjfly made as Killzone [SE][DK][FI][NO].
This arrangement of TLD matches the order of those languages on the back of the game.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/ps2/killzone/cover-art/gameCoverId,47782/
Here is Shadowrun on PC:
https://vgcollect.com/item/127699
Which jjfly made as Shadowrun [DK][FI][NO][SE].
This arrangement of TLD matches the order of those languages on the back of the game.
So we know already from these few examples, just of Scandinavian releases, that the order of language on the packaging is not any sort of standard, and in the case of Killzone (PS2) vs Shadowrun (PC) the TLDs would be in a different order if order was determined by language/flag order as displayed on the packaging itself.
Can we find examples where the order is different on a front vs back, or different on back vs back?
Note: This discussion is not limited to Scandinavian releases, just using these as direct examples.
Regardign the "BE" discussion, totallycrushed is referring to private conversation, however here is that example:
Hidden Agenda [DE][FR][IT][NL]
https://vgcollect.com/item/149246
The question being, should Belgium (BE) be added to the TLD list for this item because it was sold in Belgium? Possibly. However it appears that this is not the French release at all, so it possibly should not have [FR] in the title to begin with. The French release does not have additional languages on it. Also since there is no USK rating on it, it likely is not sold in Germany either, likely Austria instead. So this reveals a further situation (which is what ties this together) is that many people will put the TLD onto an item title when referring to the language on the case, and not what country the game was released in.
For reference, some discussion on this already took place in the TLD thread:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,7009.0.html
-
Regardign the "BE" discussion, totallycrushed is referring to private conversation, however here is that example:
Hidden Agenda [DE][FR][IT][NL]
https://vgcollect.com/item/149246
The question being, should Belgium (BE) be added to the TLD list for this item because it was sold in Belgium? Possibly. However it appears that this is not the French release at all, so it possibly should not have [FR] in the title to begin with. The French release does not have additional languages on it. Also since there is no USK rating on it, it likely is not sold in Germany either, likely Austria instead. So this reveals a further situation (which is what ties this together) is that many people will put the TLD onto an item title when referring to the language on the case, and not what country the game was released in.
For reference, some discussion on this already took place in the TLD thread:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,7009.0.html
Those languages are for indentification only. If you take Austria, they speak German there, but also some other languages like Italian. Should we include Luxembourg in this also? And what about Switzerland? I would keep it as it is. Belgium is also Dutch, French and some German language.
And for the first part, i also said it that the language patron on the box can be in a different order. I use to know such a game, but forgot its name.........Thats why instead of the alfabet, i like the order on the box.
-
I thought [BE] stood for BENELUX which is Belgium/Netherlands/Luxembourg instead of just Belgium. ???
-
I thought [BE] stood for BENELUX which is Belgium/Netherlands/Luxembourg instead of just Belgium. ???
I had added BV for Benelux, but now I can't find the source. Apparently Benelux doesn't have an official TLD. I have sticken that from the master list for the moment.
And to re-iterate. The question is whether TLD should be put in alphabetical order or in the order their associated country's language appears on the packaging.
TLD is the country the product was created for. It is not the languages that are on the product.
Hidden Agenda PS4: https://vgcollect.com/item/149246
Cannot be used as an example because the title is in error. Despite the languages that are present on it, it is not the version made for Germany, France or Italy. The user who created this title incorrectly used TLD to represent language. I cannot find a large image of the back of this item and have been unable to determine the country it was created for. I can see that it can be purchased from websites in Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium.
-
I thought [BE] stood for BENELUX which is Belgium/Netherlands/Luxembourg instead of just Belgium. ???
I had added BV for Benelux, but now I can't find the source. Apparently Benelux doesn't have an official TLD. I have sticken that from the master list for the moment.
And to re-iterate. The question is whether TLD should be put in alphabetical order or in the order their associated country's language appears on the packaging.
TLD is the country the product was created for. It is not the languages that are on the product.
Hidden Agenda PS4: https://vgcollect.com/item/149246
Cannot be used as an example because the title is in error. Despite the languages that are present on it, it is not the version made for Germany, France or Italy. The user who created this title incorrectly used TLD to represent language. I cannot find a large image of the back of this item and have been unable to determine the country it was created for. I can see that it can be purchased from websites in Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium.
BeNeLux isnt a country, so there is no TLD. It are 3 countrys who sometimes work together on some things.
-
Hidden Agenda PS4: https://vgcollect.com/item/149246
Cannot be used as an example because the title is in error. Despite the languages that are present on it, it is not the version made for Germany, France or Italy. The user who created this title incorrectly used TLD to represent language. I cannot find a large image of the back of this item and have been unable to determine the country it was created for. I can see that it can be purchased from websites in Netherlands, Switzerland and Belgium.
I found a not great but at least readable back cover for that item on ebay (link (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hidden-Agenda-fur-Sony-PlayStation-4-PS4-/253709436307)) but it doesn't tell us anything about where it was released, only that the back cover was translated in 4 different languages (but we already know that :-X), anyway i can confirm that this version couldn't be released in France since it doesn't have the "Attention" red rectangle anywhere on the cover (which is mandatory to be visible on the packaging if a game want to be released in France, the French version of that game have it on the back cover (https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Jeu-video-Hidden-Agenda-PS4-neuf-blister/253819382448)).
I had added BV for Benelux, but now I can't find the source. Apparently Benelux doesn't have an official TLD. I have sticken that from the master list for the moment.
And to re-iterate. The question is whether TLD should be put in alphabetical order or in the order their associated country's language appears on the packaging.
TLD is the country the product was created for. It is not the languages that are on the product
I understand that this was not the initial question but the fact that we use the TLD to indicate the countries where a game was released instead of the languages that are on the packaging should at least be addressed while we are on the subject, or at least we should make it clear the next time we update the Style Guide (not that i want to change it, i totally agree with that otherwise some release would be impossible to differentiate if we only go with the language of the packaging like the Bust-a-Move 2 that annoyed me for a while a few months ago (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,7009.msg152070.html#msg152070), that edition had the same exact back cover translated in the same six languages for all the different European releases, it even have the French "Attention" red rectangle on every one of them ::)).
-
I noticed the TLD thing wasn't even in the Style Guide. I have added it, but have not done anything regarding this discussion of "arrangement" of TLD on an item.
Those links you posted to the Hidden Agenda examples may well be what we could use... BUT there is a cover variation. The entry in the DB does not have the "sign" cover but the cover with the person on it. I was not able to find a good image of the back of that particular version, so I cannot confirm if the backs are the same as on those more common "sign" covers.
Your link you posted to the Bust-a-move issue points out one thing I really don't like about the current system. And I typically feel this way when it comes to the SNES games in Europe, due to the fact the country codes are confusing AND the fact that sometimes the "NOE" games were not Germany releases, but EU releases, and the fact that they have those -1 versions. Because with those EU SNES games, you can get a situation where you don't need the TLD on the German releases because there is the -1 version, you can just put that in as title description. Then you would have some items having (NOE) or (NOE-1) in the title with no TLD, and then some other versions that only have 1 cart release having a TLD and no Nintendo country code in the title. Yet since the TLD is only to be used to avert name duplication for different items, not having the TLD on an item that has the Nintendo country code in the title would be OK, but looking at the category, or an advanced search result would not "look" even.
-
.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/mWxTtw3.png)
Bought in Belgium
So? I can buy German, French and UK versions in Holland, so should i post NL on all of them?
-
.
-
Your original point does not apply to this situation with Hidden Agenda, which has an incorrect title.
Should we have a motion on whether or not to allow language designations for games of unknown origin, such as this Hidden Agenda example, as a way to enter these items into the database without having the correct information, and have the language designation be used temporarily until the correct region/s have been identified?
If implemented, such designations would be in similar use to TLD, but in lowercase letters, in either ISO 639-1 or ISO 639-2.
https://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php
And if implemented, such designations should only be used if the TLD is unknown and would not be allowed on an item where the TLD is known.
Regarding the original question "Arrange TLD in title based on representative order of languages on the case."
Is there any item currently created for multiple regions (where multiple TLD would be on the title) which has multiple languages that include a shared language between at least two of the countries? In other words, can anyone think of an example where this rule cannot be followed properly due to a shared language being present on the item?
-
can anyone think of an example where this rule cannot be followed properly due to a shared language being present on the item?
There is atleast one, but you won't take my word for it, so i don't bother looking for it.
-
.
-
Your original point does not apply to this situation with Hidden Agenda, which has an incorrect title.
How exactly does it have an incorrect title?
As already pointed out, it is not sold in France as it is missing the regulatory information. It is not sold in Germany, as it is not rated by USK. It is not sold in Italy as it is missing the hologram. While it may have French, German and Italian on the packaging, it is not sold in those countries, therefore the TLDs in the title are incorrect. Remember that the TLD indicates which country the item was created for sale in, not what languages are on the item.
We can potentially solve this issue with Hidden Agenda by making it the "EU" version, removing all TLDs but putting into the description field what languages are on the package. And then, the UK release gets the [UK] in the title.
can anyone think of an example where this rule cannot be followed properly due to a shared language being present on the item?
There is atleast one, but you won't take my word for it, so i don't bother looking for it.
I would believe you, but the reason I ask is because if we have at least one item that can defeat this rule, then it means we can't order TLD by representative language.
So the choices would be:
- alphabetical order
- any order you want
- order of representative language
- order of representative language unless there is a conflict due to shared language then alphabetical
- order of representative language unless there is a conflict due to shared language then any order you want
EDIT: be aware that this rule would apply to all items from any country, and not just EU or Scandinavian releases.
-
.
-
The back specifically says it is for Europe. "Alternate cover" description in the title is not allowed. If that character has a name, use "___________ cover" where the character name is in the blank.
-
.
-
As already pointed out, it is not sold in France as it is missing the regulatory information. It is not sold in Germany, as it is not rated by USK. It is not sold in Italy as it is missing the hologram. While it may have French, German and Italian on the packaging, it is not sold in those countries, therefore the TLDs in the title are incorrect. Remember that the TLD indicates which country the item was created for sale in, not what languages are on the item.
Games can and will be sold in those country's if there stock runs out, and other country's still have stock left. Thats why i stated earlier that i can find German, UK, French, any version here in our small country.
-
Yes of course. Perhaps the wording needs to be clarified. Not what country an item was released or sold in, but created for. For example, some SMS games were created for Australia and then later sold in Canada. Same thing where some games are created for France and sold in Canada unchanged... mainly in Quebec where it is possible to find French versions with ELSPA and PEGI ratings on them.
totallycrushed, we are well aware there are entries in the database with incorrect names. Those entries will be fixed at some point, but cover descriptions may not work in those instances, and may have to find some other notable difference in the packaging.
-
The bad news is, that this is not the worsed problem.
This is, https://vgcollect.com/item/149563 (https://vgcollect.com/item/149563)
-
The bad news is, that this is not the worsed problem.
This is, https://vgcollect.com/item/149563 (https://vgcollect.com/item/149563)
How exactly? Is it not this?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/569700-little-master-raikuban-no-densetsu/images/17936
-
The bad news is, that this is not the worsed problem.
This is, https://vgcollect.com/item/149563 (https://vgcollect.com/item/149563)
How exactly? Is it not this?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/569700-little-master-raikuban-no-densetsu/images/17936
Not enough fields filled in. And this is only 1out of alot of them.
-
The bad news is, that this is not the worsed problem.
This is, https://vgcollect.com/item/149563 (https://vgcollect.com/item/149563)
How exactly? Is it not this?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/569700-little-master-raikuban-no-densetsu/images/17936
Not enough fields filled in. And this is only 1out of alot of them.
Well I wouldn't say it is the worst. The worst is a variation of this but where you can't figure out what exactly the thing is supposed to be. Then again, I think that franken-entries are the real worst, especially if they are older ones that slipped under the radar and there are a large number in collections.
-
The bad news is, that this is not the worsed problem.
This is, https://vgcollect.com/item/149563 (https://vgcollect.com/item/149563)
How exactly? Is it not this?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gameboy/569700-little-master-raikuban-no-densetsu/images/17936
Not enough fields filled in. And this is only 1out of alot of them.
Well I wouldn't say it is the worst. The worst is a variation of this but where you can't figure out what exactly the thing is supposed to be. Then again, I think that franken-entries are the real worst, especially if they are older ones that slipped under the radar and there are a large number in collections.
Yeah, but those franken entrys start life as what i posted.
-
Then what is the idea, to enforce a minimum amount of information required to create an entry? Or set minimums for regular non-pro, non-admin users? What we have here is the opposite in regards to new entry requirements to say... discogs, which is a frustrating experience trying to add new entries that I had given up after only the second try. A change that you are talking about is beyond the scope of the style guide, and would involve changing the functionality of the site.
-
There is no solution to this. The only one i could think of, is make it so that systems with games with barcode's you have to put in the barcode. But that is also tricky. I see some 'collector's' adding them just like that. Are you a collector, or investor? is what i am thinking.
The other part is the mods really have to check a item before approving a change. And how easy the sometimes deny things, that shouldnt be hard ;D.
-
Usually if someone is adding an item number or barcode to an entry that doesn't have one, they get accepted. Fortunately, the history tab can tell us the order in which information was added to the entry. We can determine the intent of the person who created the entry. The two major components are front art, item number and barcode. It is rare to find an instance where someone made an entry with a barcode and the wrong art. If an item is made with front art and no barcode, then the front art will be the deciding factor into what the entry is supposed to be. This is what causes general entries to be country specific ones when entries are created. If we find some entry where the information is all mixed up, then we can use the edit history to determine what should be on the entry, and change/remove the "add-ons" appropriately.
There is a way to fix it however, the solution you do not see. That is to send new item entries into an approval queue. It wouldn't fix items that are already in the database, but it would help against not only this issue happening in the future, but also dupes.
-
Updating, TLD arrangement discussion stalled here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.msg158114.html#msg158114
Put up a common name exception poll here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9352.new.html
-
In regards to the Commonly Accepted Names Exceptions
see here: https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,22.msg157239.html#msg157239
Do we want to only apply these exceptions to physical items only?
Reasons for considering this change:
1. Online platforms often will use a title that is not represented (sometimes at all) by the artwork they have for that game.
2. Online platforms often change the artwork for the game, and the title on the artwork changes but not on the game's main page, such as games that change to remastered or bonus editions, extra content, etc.
3. The title of a game (or DLC) on an online platform is the defining thing, as opposed to what can be determined by looking at a physical item in-hand.
If this change would be allowed, it would flip title requirements for digital games, meaning that the title shown on the exception list would be required to be put into alt-name field, and the item title would match the one used by the online platform.
Let me know what you think about the name exception list only applying to physical items and not digital games.
-
The previous Formula 1 poll got me thinking should we also poll Pro Evolution Soccer/PES name formatting from 2008 forward? At 2008 and forward Konami changed the games logo so that it's spelled: "PES 2008 Pro Evolution Soccer" Example: https://vgcollect.com/item/53001 . This has led to much confusion of how entries should be titled.
Variations used on this site at the moment (ignore the year as tittle formatting is same on every release post 2008):
PES 2015
PES 2009: Pro Evolution Soccer
PES 2016 Pro Evolution Soccer
PES 2011 : Pro Evolution Soccer - Promo Only (Not for Resale)
Pro Evolution Soccer PES 2008 [UK]
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010
As for internet consensus:
GameFaqs uses: Pro Evolution Soccer 2017
MobyGames uses: PES 2008: Pro Evolution Soccer
Is there obvious way how these should be named and I can start making edits or should this be polled?
If so I would suggest that options in poll would be:
PES 2008
PES 2008: Pro Evolution Soccer
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
-
If Mobygames always uses PES XXX: Pro Evolution Soccer as their naming convention, then we can use it. If they have some one way and some another way, then we can look at GameFAQs. If they also have some one way and some another, then we can use a poll.
-
Sorry for late response.
Only exceptions within MobyGames naming convention seem to be 3DS ports:
https://www.mobygames.com/game/3ds/pro-evolution-soccer-2011-3d
https://www.mobygames.com/game/3ds/pro-evolution-soccer-2012-3d
Those can probably be seen just as oversight of their part.
-
So Mobygames is out. How about GameFAQs?
-
With GameFAQs only exceptions are 2012 and 2017 iOS ports:
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/iphone/645411-pes-2012-pro-evolution-soccer
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/iphone/210407-pes-2017-pro-evolution-soccer-
-
For Common Name Exception voting for Pro Evolution Soccer titles that include both the PES abbreviation and Pro Evolution Soccer text, we can do these three options in a poll:
PES 2008
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008
PES 2008: Pro Evolution Soccer
Do we have any additional name arrangements to put up to this vote?
-
I can't think any
-
I found a different choice in the db and added it, as well as the fifth option from the last poll. Thread is here for everyone to vote and voice their opinion.
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9399.0.html
-
Let's talk about computers.
We already have some categories for computers and I'm not talking about Commodore 64 or the ZX Spectrum.
Actual computers that were not sold as game systems. Such as the NEC PC-88 and PC-98:
https://vgcollect.com/browse/pc98hardware
And then Apple II:
https://vgcollect.com/browse/apple2hardwarena
These are not computers that had any games sold with them. Yes there are games that can be played on those systems.
For IBM PC Compatibles we do not have any hardware sections. And we do not have sections for PC hardware besides typical accessories. In the PC Accessories category there are no video cards or sound cards, not even those types of devices that did come with a pack-in game.
So the question is, should we even cover adding regular computers in the database? We already have some, why not the rest?
And what about boxed peripherals such as video cards and sound cards, especially those that come with games or have games advertised on them?
-
Collecting ideas for putting into the Style Guide how to deal with accessories that include games. Note that this is only specifically for the database and has nothing to do with how a user may want these types of items represented within their VGCollect collection, and has no relation to how a person manages their collection IRL.
Method 1
- All accessories go into the accessory category
- Pack-in games from accessory packs go into the game category (Description notes which pack(s) the game came in)
This makes it so that the accessory record in the accessory category is for the full package, or the accessory loose, and follows the existing rule for console packs and pack-in games.
Method 2
- All accessory packs that include a retail game go into the game category (Description notes all contents)
- Accessory packs that include a game demo go into the demo category if it exists (Description notes all contents)
- All pack-in games from accesssory packs go into the game/demo category (Description notes which pack(s) the game came in)
- All individual items (the accessories themselves) from within the accessory pack go into the accessory category as loose items (Description notes which pack(s) the item came in)
This one creates a duplicate entry in the game category (game by itself, or game in the box) and requires that users create the individual items in the accessory category.
Anytime this discussion comes up, there always seems to be some quick decision on which way it should be. For example, it would be irresponsible for us to adopt Method 2 and then not create all of the item entries in the Accessory category. This method cannot be chosen just to put accessory packs into the game category and be done with it.
Anyways, if you have any other ideas regarding these items, post into here so that we can prepare a poll for user voting.
Here are some Accessory Packs that already exist in the database to think of as examples:
- https://vgcollect.com/item/154938 - Bass Pro Shops: The Strike - Championship Edition*
- https://vgcollect.com/item/48388 - Super Scope 6
- https://vgcollect.com/item/9227 - Wii Fit Plus
- https://vgcollect.com/item/29992 - Steel Battalion
- https://vgcollect.com/item/16460 - Time Crisis Plus Guncon*
- https://vgcollect.com/item/54444 - Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War
- https://vgcollect.com/item/65084 - Cabela's African Adventures - Top Shot Elite
- https://vgcollect.com/item/91065 - Guitar Hero Live (Two Guitar Controllers)
- https://vgcollect.com/item/138984 - Lethal Enforcers II: The Western Including the Justifier
- https://vgcollect.com/item/69502 - Nights Into Dreams + 3D Control Pad
- https://vgcollect.com/item/24441 - Singer Izek Digital Sewing Machine
- https://vgcollect.com/item/21330 - Bandai Karaoke Studio
*these entries may have incorrect titles
-
In my opinion the correct way is Method 2.
"All accessory packs that include a retail game go into the game category (Description notes all contents)." - Such bundles are kind of edition of the game, like special edition etc., so it should go yo the game category. For example here we have three different versions od the "Bass Pro Shops The Strike - Championship Edition (Includes Fishing Rod Peripheral)" [as it is written on the box] for Nintendo Switch.
https://vgcollect.com/item/155491 - UK edition
https://vgcollect.com/item/155759 - UK / DE edition
https://vgcollect.com/item/154938 - US edition
There are three different game bundles, but with the same accessory, so it is logic that it should be in game category in correct region.
Same with bundles with Aim Controller:
https://vgcollect.com/item/125788 - Sony PlayStation VR Aim Controller + Farpoint [PL] - Polish edition
https://vgcollect.com/item/125394 - Sony PlayStation VR Aim Controller - Farpoint - US edition
https://vgcollect.com/item/154964 - Sony PlayStation VR Aim Controller + Firewall: Zero Hour - UK edition
https://vgcollect.com/item/141313 - Sony PlayStation VR Aim Controller + Bravo Team - UK edition
Different games and releases, but the same accessory, so they should be in game category, because putting those bundles into accessory category is nonesens since they are the same items.
Also on the market (on-line shops, ebay, amazon etc.) such bundles are in "game" category and "accessory" is for stand alone accessories.
Such bundles (complete with the game and the accessory) should be in "game" category.
"All pack-in games from accesssory packs go into the game/demo category (Description notes which pack(s) the game came in)" - It is the game alone, like somebody can have only the game without the main bundle box etc., so he can add such entry to his collection.
Same situation with " All individual items (the accessories themselves) from within the accessory pack go into the accessory category as loose items (Description notes which pack(s) the item came in)" - Somebody can add it if he has only the peripheral form the bundle, like many people have only the Zapper for NES. If somebody has only the accessory and not the game, then he will add the accessory to his collection, not the whole bundle
Our goal is to be the biggest database about electronic entertainment, so it should be also the most detailed database for real hardcore collectors. What makes our database different from the others is that if there in no such entry existed, then you can add it. So there can be at least three entries for one bundle: one for the whole bundle; one for the game only and one for the accessory only.
In such case everybody can add that entry to their collection which exactly corresponds with the stuff they have.
So, that is why I think that Method 2 is the good choice :)
Anytime this discussion comes up, there always seems to be some quick decision on which way it should be. For example, it would be irresponsible for us to adopt Method 2 and then not create all of the item entries in the Accessory category. This method cannot be chosen just to put accessory packs into the game category and be done with it.
I will try to fix it. No problem for me.
-
Poll will be created on Wednesday Jan 16, get idea submissions put in before then.
-
A day late, here it is: https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9965.new.html
-
After getting some feedback from the community regarding stylizing grey vs. gray~ http://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10486 I'd like to start running a poll on the 29th, with these three options:
● Use "gray" spelling for North American releases, use "grey" spelling for all other regions. Put the opposite spelling in the alt-name field.
● Use "gray" spelling for all regions. Put "grey" spelling in the alt-name field.
● Use "grey" spelling for all regions. Put "gray" spelling in the alt-name field.
This only applies to descriptors, it doesn't apply to official names on the packaging of items.
-
Sounds good. Make sure to set the poll to run 7 days, and use the option to allow users to change their vote.
-
I think a poll regarding DLC in the db could be helpful
Options I was thinking of
DLC is added as a separate item
DLC is only added to an individual's notes section of the full release and are not added as a separate item (or maybe one day we can have a DLC section when people add items to their collection?)
Only DLC that constitutes a full game is added as a separate item
-
Only DLC that constitutes a full game is added as a separate item
Here is the problem with this. Who gets to decide? What do we use for reference to know what a DLC is and isn't? I tend to ignore what is in the digital categories other than to put in pictures of fix titles (all caps or trademark symbols, etc) because I have no idea what any of that stuff is in the console digital sections.
-
Only DLC that constitutes a full game is added as a separate item
Here is the problem with this. Who gets to decide? What do we use for reference to know what a DLC is and isn't? I tend to ignore what is in the digital categories other than to put in pictures of fix titles (all caps or trademark symbols, etc) because I have no idea what any of that stuff is in the console digital sections.
I agree, I just noticed some were mentioning this regarding Undead Nightmare so I thought I would include it as a possible option.
I don't think any DLC should be added, whether it's a full game or a skin or something. I think people can just put it in their notes on an item.
-
Only DLC that constitutes a full game is added as a separate item
Here is the problem with this. Who gets to decide? What do we use for reference to know what a DLC is and isn't? I tend to ignore what is in the digital categories other than to put in pictures of fix titles (all caps or trademark symbols, etc) because I have no idea what any of that stuff is in the console digital sections.
I agree, I just noticed some where mentioning this regarding Undead Nightmare so I thought I would include it as a possible option.
I don't think any DLC should be added, whether it's a full game or a skin or something. I think people can just put it in their notes on an item.
The problem is, we can't put up a poll without a way for that "only if stand-alone" to be determined. We can have now to be the "figure it out later" time and not after the poll is up. Plus, we have to take into consideration what the Style Guide currently has in it, that would be an option as well.... BUT as it stands, it also has the same problem, how do we know?
-
That's fine, we can discuss what that might look like and it can be added as an option to the poll or not when we come to a consensus! :)
-
Undead nightmare is a separate game completely so it isn't considered DLC, it's just a Download Title.
It's really a simple thing when it comes to that... it's not DLC. If the title doesn't require the main game then it isn't DLC. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion really, it should be treated no differently than any other digital only title.
I think the discussion in general is a dangerous discussion because allowing stuff like skins and such as separate listings will have people listing stuff like the 3000 hats in TF2 in the database with no one to monitor it because only one user cares about it and no admins know better to audit the listings.
Edit: Having read through the posts in reference, I see the conversation is about more than Undead Nightmare. DLC is a complex conversation. I think, personally, it should be notes on the item in the collection until such a point that a more robust system could be put into place for the database. A separate entry system for DLC or something to link back to parent items with cross references, or integrating it into the existing system requiring a parent item to submit dLC entries. Not a simple change, but likely the optimal solution.
-
Undead nightmare is a separate game completely so it isn't considered DLC, it's just a Download Title.
Not quite. It's DLC that got a standalone release. It's also considered DLC for the purposes of both Sony and Microsoft's Trophy/Achievement systems, whereas a true separate game would have a separate list.
-
What I was thinking was that when an item listing is created or edited, we select whether or not the game has DLC. This would pull up a box underneath the notes section when people add them item to their collection where they can write in what DLC they have.
Unfortunately that would require changes to the database structure which I don't think could be done overnight :/
EDIT: I think this is kind of what Ignition365 was getting at
-
Undead nightmare is a separate game completely so it isn't considered DLC, it's just a Download Title.
Not quite. It's DLC that got a standalone release. It's also considered DLC for the purposes of both Sony and Microsoft's Trophy/Achievement systems, whereas a true separate game would have a separate list.
Trophy list might treat it as DLC but the store lists it as a Full Game.
-
That type of item design (parent/child) is the ideal way to go about it. It certainly would require a bit of redesign work and testing... it would also make things a bit more complicated. Because of that, such a system couldn't be just enabled without the ability for users to opt out of it. I have a design in my head for how it would work, but getting everyone together to work on such a project is actually more challenging than how the design would work. Also, that type of design, if implemented properly, would solve many of the nitpicky problems we have with item entries that we currently have rules for in the Style Guide.
-
Style Guide Poll #5 Pack-in Games from Games or Game Packs voting is live:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11218.new.html
-
Style Guide Poll #6 Multi-platform Physical Release Game Category Placement is live.
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,11413.0.html
-
As many here may know, my contributions to the database regularly relate to Asian items with a focus on items from Japan specifically. Working within the confines of our site's common name rule (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9281.0.html), I have found myself routinely updating incorrect GameFAQs game entry titles so that VGC entry titles may be correct. Mostly, edit submissions are not an issue on their site, but there are some notable issues I have encountered that all revolve around what GameFAQs accepts for localized franchise names.
Here are two minor examples:
Biohazard
The Biohazard series may be recognized on GameFAQs as Biohazard, BioHazard, or BIOHAZARD. Across other sites, the franchise is largely formatted as Biohazard, and, as such, should be the standardization on our site.
Sangokushi
The Sangokushi series may be recognized on GameFAQs as Sangokushi or San Goku Shi. The series name references a real world historical text widely understood to be formatted as the former. As such, Sangokushi should be the standardization.
However, I have taken much greater issue with the following two examples:
Katamari Damashii
In Japan, the Damacy series is known as Damashii. However, the GameFAQs edit submission mod is firm on their stance that 塊魂 "translates" to Katamari Damacy, which is incorrect. Even if they were meaning to say "transliterates," it is incorrect. For many games in the series, ダマシイ or だましい is supplied as the furigana readings, which transliterates to Damashii. The furigana reading can be seen here on Katamari Damashii's front cover (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/box/0/7/7/57077_front.jpg).
Tenchuu
In Japan, many Tenchuu games rely solely on kanji text 天柱 (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/box/6/6/9/97669_front.jpg) for the game title. 天柱 is an actual word (https://jisho.org/search/tenchuu) with a second "u" sound at the end (てんちゅう, not てんちゅ.) GameFAQs disregards this reading and instead supports Tenchu for all games within the franchise including titles released in Japan.
I'm presenting these issues to suggest that perhaps we should consider instances like these to follow other examples previously discussed here such as Formula 1 and Pro Evolution Soccer. With that said, it is important to note that my concerns relate to numerous items on a franchise level and not for instances of specific games on an individual level featuring incorrect names. As I briefly mentioned before, updating an incorrect title on GameFAQs' site is usually not problematic, and especially so when the edit is made for items outside of franchises or for items in franchises that were never given a Western release.
-
We don't care about the particular formatting that is used, so Biohazard has nothing to be judged upon.
Tenchu and Katamari Damacy issues just effect their entries for Japanese games and they are using the US titles. I don't think we should be interested in having a poll that effects the names of individual entries, as it would be too much work for too little result.
The only one that stands out is Sangokushi, since that is something I've run across and other members have brought that up also.
If you agree, I can make a naming poll regarding Sangokushi.
-
We don't care about the particular formatting that is used, so Biohazard has nothing to be judged upon.
Tenchu and Katamari Damacy issues just effect their entries for Japanese games and they are using the US titles. I don't think we should be interested in having a poll that effects the names of individual entries, as it would be too much work for too little result.
The only one that stands out is Sangokushi, since that is something I've run across and other members have brought that up also.
If you agree, I can make a naming poll regarding Sangokushi.
If possible, a poll regarding Sangokushi would be ideal. However, I would like to address some of the other items in further detail:
For Biohazard, the point I was trying to make is that some entries in our database are formatted as Biohazard and others as BioHazard, so I was hoping for there to be a standard. Using another franchise as an example, I don't think you personally would be pleased with some Sonic entries being titled either Sonic the Hedgehog or Sonic the HedgeHog. If there is nothing to address here, then I will update any BioHazard entries to Biohazard at a later time.
For both Damashii and Tenchuu, to say that the entries are currently relying upon the US titles is incorrect. For some specific titles such as Katamari Damacy / Katamari Damashii, yes but certainly not for all. Here are some examples:
We Love Katamari [NA]
https://vgcollect.com/item/1077
Minna Daisuki Katamari Damacy [JP] --> correct title is Minna Daisuki Katamari Damashii
https://vgcollect.com/item/32800
Katamari Forever [NA]
https://vgcollect.com/item/17301
Katamari Damacy Tribute [JP] --> correct title is Katamari Damashii Tribute
https://vgcollect.com/item/152771
Tenchu: Wrath of Heaven [NA]
https://vgcollect.com/item/1585
Tenchu San [JP] --> correct title is Tenchuu San
https://vgcollect.com/item/115351
Tenchu: Fatal Shadows [NA]
https://vgcollect.com/item/1229
Tenchu Kurenai [JP] --> correct title is Tenchuu Kurenai
https://vgcollect.com/item/87709
The above examples within our database and on GameFAQs are currently using a combination of both Japanese and English titles which results in a title that doesn't exist. With that said, the incorrect franchise naming does not affect entries on an individual level but on a group level, as these are instances where the problem affects a franchise with numerous games.
-
Biohazard should be typed as I type it in this post. It is a normal word and should not have any additional capitalisations present.
We always have the ability to put the correct names into alt-name is something is wrong on our source.
Aside from the posted examples being technically wrong, it has caused no issues with our userbase and there have been no complaints about those titles other than people who get annoyed that the translations are wrong. I'm not inclined to bother with issues like Katamari or Tenchu when we can easily use alt-name. Sangokushi on the other hand has a huge amount of titles and it already using the alt-name for the opposite of whatever GameFAQs has for the title (Sangokushi vs San Goku Shi) and the only reason why I am inclined to run a poll on that is because it has caused issue/confusion among users in the past.
Even if we ran polls on any of these, we'd still have to use alt-name to put the "incorrect GameFAQs" name into there. So this really effects how entries look in collection and in search results.
-
Revisiting the Sangokushi naming situation, there seems to have been some changes on GameFAQs regarding their use of this name. So here are some additional notes and questions regarding how this should move forward.
- When I was working on the MD Japan categories and worked on the Sangokushi entries (and did all the alt-names for the other entries for this game) GameFAQs might have been at a 3/5 San Goku Shi to Sangokushi ratio. Looking at it today, it seems to be 95% San Goku Shi with the exception of extremely new or old entries. This means that it is not as contentious as it once was and leaves open an option for people to choose to not create a common name exception for it.
- 三国志 is Chinese for "Three Kingdoms" and it a more common term than the game series that spawned this issue originally. That being Koei's Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series and in actuality there are more games not from this series that use 三国志. So this poll would not be about how to name a game series, but rather whether we are going to be using spaces inbetween the transliteration of the Chinese characters. And if this is the case, then it may end up being that we have to be careful as to whether this would apply to all Chinese words or just 三国志.
-
- When I was working on the MD Japan categories and worked on the Sangokushi entries (and did all the alt-names for the other entries for this game) GameFAQs might have been at a 3/5 San Goku Shi to Sangokushi ratio. Looking at it today, it seems to be 95% San Goku Shi with the exception of extremely new or old entries. This means that it is not as contentious as it once was and leaves open an option for people to choose to not create a common name exception for it.
- 三国志 is Chinese for "Three Kingdoms" and it a more common term than the game series that spawned this issue originally. That being Koei's Romance of the Three Kingdoms game series and in actuality there are more games not from this series that use 三国志. So this poll would not be about how to name a game series, but rather whether we are going to be using spaces inbetween the transliteration of the Chinese characters. And if this is the case, then it may end up being that we have to be careful as to whether this would apply to all Chinese words or just 三国志.
I've noticed the ratio of Sangokushi to San Goku Shi on GameFAQs too. However, I would just like to note that you and I both know that GameFAQs is not reliable in publishing accurate information, be it entry names, publisher and developer information, or images. It would not be surprising to find out that someone updated many of the entries en masse from one format to another, with the edits being approved without much thought.
With that said, if a VGC poll regarding Sangokushi was created, what options would there be?
1 Sangokushi
2. San Goku Shi
and maybe even
3. Formatting depends entirely on GameFAQs entry page
Until other problematic examples become present, it may be best to limit the poll to the word Sangokushi specifically.
-
Yes I think the option to keep things as they are should be present.
-
I'd like to have a Common Name Exception for various James Bond games. Frequently Gamefaqs has changed the names of James Bond Ps2 games as it's not immediately clear if "007", "James Bond" or a combination of both or none should be used in a games title. This leaves games changing names frequently on the site and variants being left between the two names.
Titles used by Gamefaqs for Ps2
James Bond 007: Agent Under Fire
007: Quantum of Solace
From Russia With Love
007: NightFire
James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing
There are 4 ways I think would be most suitable to resolve this issue.
1) Use "007" in game titles and "James Bond" as an alt names.
2) Use "James Bond" in game titles and "007" as an alt names.
3) Use both "James Bond" and "007" in a games title.
4) Use neither "007" or "James Bond" as titles and instead include them as alt names.
Ex 1) Alt text "James Bond"
007: Agent Under Fire
007: Quantum of Solace
007: From Russia With Love
007: NightFire
007: Everything or Nothing
Ex 2) Alt text "007"
James Bond: Agent Under Fire
James Bond: Quantum of Solace
James Bond: From Russia With Love
James Bond: NightFire
James Bond: Everything or Nothing
Ex 3)
James Bond 007: Agent Under Fire
James Bond 007: Quantum of Solace
James Bond 007: From Russia With Love
James Bond 007: NightFire
James Bond 007: Everything or Nothing
Ex 4) Alt text "James Bond 007"
Agent Under Fire
Quantum of Solace
From Russia With Love
NightFire
Everything or Nothing
-
What you are asking for is to have commonality across all titles and not bringing up a situation where a game has two different names on the reference site.
However, all of your examples are using the 007 logo with the gun. We can make an a poll that is similar to the Formula 1 poll previous, where we will have the poll options to reflect what we should type when this logo is used in-place of text in the title. This would not have any effect on any James Bond games that do not have this logo.
Please provide item entry examples that use this logo where using any of the proposed "methods" would cause a naming issue, if any. If none then a poll can proceed if you agree.
-
I believe my only concern is where older games are involved with such a symbol and if such a change would cause them to change name. For example https://vgcollect.com/item/111098 uses a 007 Gun logo. Other than that I do not see any issues personally.
-
The poll is created here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,12395.0.html
-
Games Released for multiple or co-branded platforms
There are some instances where a game release has multiple console branding or compatibilities listed. In these instances, the game should be put into the category for the older console. See here for a list of some console release dates to assist in choosing a category.
Currently, this rule is set in place for items in Games categories. At the same time, this sort of standard has also been enforced as an informal rule of sorts for items in Accessories categories. Unlike games, accessory compatibility can be quite varied, and especially with modern console accessories as PC and mobile compatibility options are also available. Because of this, categorizing these items with the site's current limitations is challenging.
Below is a small list of multiplatform accessory items:
Atari Standard Joystick Controller (https://vgcollect.com/item/199111)
compatibility: Atari 8-bit computers, Atari 2600
Konami Hyper Shot (https://vgcollect.com/item/168017)
compatibility: MSX, Atari 2800, Sega SC3000, SG1000, NEC PC-6001, PC-6001MKII
Sony AV Cable SCPH-10030 U (https://vgcollect.com/item/207052)
compatibility: PlayStation, PSone, PlayStation 2
PDP Disney Epic Mickey: The Power of Two Clicker (https://vgcollect.com/item/229132)
compatibility: Wii, Wii U
Seagate Game Drive 5TB HDD (https://vgcollect.com/item/255332)
compatibility: PlayStation 4, PlayStation 5
Sony Pulse Explore Wireless Earbuds CFI-ZWE1 [US] (https://vgcollect.com/item/262017)
compatibility: PlayStation 5, PC, Mobile
Microsoft Wireless Controller 1914 (Carbon Black / M1143888-001) (https://vgcollect.com/item/188806)
compatibility: Xbox Series X/S, Xbox One, Windows, Android, iOS
8Bitdo NES30 Pro Game Controller (https://vgcollect.com/item/133632)
compatibility: Android, iOS, PC
My Arcade Extender Cable (https://vgcollect.com/item/147353)
compatibility: NES Classic & SNES Classic (Other Accessory), Wii, Wii U
Should a poll be created, a number of options could be made for the community to determine how these types of items are to be categorized until the site's capabilities expand. In short, the two most obvious options would be by oldest console or by newest console, although there could be other solutions. Throughout this situation, Xbox systems significantly complicates the issue, as Xbox isn't really any one particular console anymore but one unified platform of previously separate families, largely some combination of Xbox One, Xbox Series, and PC.