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Messages - endemonadia

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1
Video Game Database Discussion / Re: Duplicate List 2023
« on: September 26, 2023, 02:51:04 pm »

2
For ten years, why did no one look at the back art for 31604 and think, wait, this art doesn't reflect the item I own, and then ask about it? Of course, the reason why is that most people are not concerned about these finer details, meaning they are also not concerned about having the correct item being added to their online collection.[/font]

Because they checked the barcode which read as the UK release.

I just think it would make more sense to accept that this entry was seen as the UK (European) release and the new entry should have been created as NL.  But hey, thats your call.

As an aside i think it must be noted that English is the main European gaming language and therefore European games are released in English.  Basically English language games are not limited to UK only.  I get the feeling US natives dont understand this fact so when they see a UK release and think thats only released within UK borders, its not.  The UK releases were shipped all over Europe and sold in dozens of other countries.

Historically the UK releases were sold all over Europe where it was too expensive to convert games into a local European language - Europe is made up of around 50 countries, most with their own languages.

Just an observation.

3
I just had an edit rejected and im very confused with the changes you have made to the original listing.

I submitted a rear case scan of the True Crime Streets of LA to this listing https://vgcollect.com/item/31604 - this listing had the incorrect rear scan a Dutch edition scan.

You rejected that scan saying that this listing was for [NL].  The listing was originally not listed as [NL] you have added that into the title when you rejected my rear scan.  You have also changed the barcode.  I ALWAYS look at the barcode as the principle indicator of the database entry and this entry was 100% not the [NL] release except for the incorrect rear case scan that was on the listing.  The barcode was originally the correct common release (ending 128).

This [NL] listing now has 128 people saying this is in their collection.  I dont think that most people have the [NL] copy of this game which is much rarer release.

You have also created a new entry for the common release of this game which uses my rear scan https://vgcollect.com/item/252886 - this common release is not in anyones collection.

I dont understand why you changed the barcode on the original listing and created a new entry for the common release.

4
The listing https://vgcollect.com/item/221733 is the re-release under [Midas] and i am going to make the amendment now. 

I have just put together the listing for the original and i will put this up also now.  The reason i am posting this here is because the one thats listed in the database has the title needed for the original.

There is another listing on the database for this game https://vgcollect.com/item/90191 and that is correct.

This title - Heroes of Might and Magic: Quest for the DragonBone Staff

5
Ive just had a disc image rejected due to being classed as the wrong one.  Its correct.

Weirdly the entire release of the FIRST edition was issued with a French game disc.  You can see this if you peruse Ebay and see that all of the game discs the game title is written in French.  The second release (Ubisoft Exclusive) had the correct English disc. 

This item came with a French disc.
https://vgcollect.com/item/70913

This one has the English disc.
https://vgcollect.com/item/175838

NOTE: here is an example of the first release with the French disc on Ebay
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/195762729049?hash=item2d945e3059%3Ag%3Ak5IAAOSwJ9li3TNp&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4NVR7DYj2TLCaNvNH%2Br%2BOc%2FbZCKqiKLxZAuSYjUF4ulBncedKViefnXZCEwb4lHDXaxCZZRBywVq5IdcO2BhWEs%2F9F%2FvlwYbj0OEdJLcqmzxRW2IGlBHUmsYks7A%2FeRCnpt5i%2FFgYlnVDYh2sFBUrxio%2FvC1fDazJYZ%2BL6dM6c%2BwRSBOsGfxHR8QBdyxqluEax2lNBrIV5HuYhKCu1xu1c0Z%2BOCc2HfGN4bl8hkR6jlkD693StbI4ift0mSEM9YMH28OeTNRIeu%2Blf0Ft8Oh5reHmdk%2BL8jf4OFDCYTjbknR%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7666ZPBYg&LH_BIN=1

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Video Game Database Discussion / Re: PS1 PAL - List Quality Control
« on: August 02, 2023, 06:23:37 pm »
I saw it, but why bring up this middle section than, It's why I specifically focussed on that part. It's incorrect, hologram isn't why we have so many different variants. There are plenty of actual unique differences in which you have different variations among the same game.

Why mention this statement at all? Because the conversation relates to outer labels, not specifically hologram labels. Because hologram labels were already mentioned, I continued to use that type of label as an example to highlight that they're needed because we track physical products which isn't cover art alone.

It's unlikely that the presence of a hologram label is the sole difference between two unique items, but it could be possible. That is not what I am arguing at any point, though. Like I've already stated, plenty of variants relate to labels, whether you acknowledge that fact or otherwise. Below are types of labels I've come across which would often be lost if relying on cover art scans alone.

hologram label
https://vgcollect.com/item/30113
https://vgcollect.com/item/239460

regional labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/247896

rating labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/243123

edition labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/212154

distribution labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/241042

bundled set labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/240417

barcode labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/236002

store labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/249194
https://vgcollect.com/item/249195

promotion labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/209394

correction labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/184081


design differences labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/9954
https://vgcollect.com/item/9955

general outer labels
https://vgcollect.com/item/228196

You have effectively proven my point with this list.

I 100% agree with you that in some cases the hologram or label can be a unique identifier to a specific release of the game.  And your list is a nice resource to see alot of those possible differences :)

But, everyone who collects PS1 games knows that the standard Sony Playstation hologram on the front cover is totally generic, it appears on every official PS1 release.  Now, there are a few exceptions to this rule, as i stated above, the 'bigbox' releases generally dont have the Playstation Hologram although Final Fantasy and a couple of others do.  But the point is that the hologram doesnt prove a variance, its the standard. 

Now, the PS2 releases are more interesting because there are two different Sony Playstation holograms.  One is the Diamond Playstation logo and the other reads PS2.  Although they both effectively mean the same as the PS1 releases, theyre on almost every game so they dont signifying anything, theyre also generic. They sometimes appear on the front with most of them appearing on the rear.

There are some holograms specific to certain games franchises, FIFA, NBA, WWE, usually sports governing bodies.  And they dont appear on every release so I can see why including those holograms in the scan is definitely important.  In these cases i agree with Dhaabi, although with regard to the standard PS1/PS2 hologram i agree with sworddude.

I think we will all have to agree to disagree on how useful the PS1/PS2 holograms are for the database entry, its definitely divided everyone lol


7
Video Game Database Discussion / Re: PS1 PAL - List Quality Control
« on: August 02, 2023, 01:34:12 pm »
Im sure there are ways to mitigate the poorer quality when scanning the full game on the scanner.  My point is that scanning the insert is always going to yield better results, literally every time. Right?

Perhaps so. Nevertheless, we are concerned about highlighting as much accuracy as possible for each specific item. So, if an item features a hologram label, the most accurate image would be one that includes it. Whether collectors are aware of its presence or not makes no difference, because we are making attempts to preserve correct data. This is not to say someone should go out of their way to re-scan art so that hologram labels are present on entry artwork. But, if someone were to do that and existing entry art is missing that information, it would be more valuable to our site and therefore approved, even if the overall quality of the scan or art lessens.

Ok that makes the requirements clearer.

Although i will still argue that the hologram is not part of the cover art and therefore it shouldnt be part of the cover art scans in the database.  As i already pointed out, the game companies themselves dont include the hologram when they produce cover art for commercial purposes.  The Hologram is a component of the physical game case/sleeve/housing and not the artwork.

Now, if there was a photo entry in the database for the physical game as it looks complete....

8
It seems that the EAN could relate to a Finnish regional release based on the VET/SFB rating, but I believe it to instead be general Europe released based on the back Capcom product code, as other general Europe releases utilize the CJEX sequence. If that is the case, then a new entry for the UK release will need to be submitted with a [UK] TLD descriptor.[/font]

Ive created a new UK entry - pls check its what you wanted

https://vgcollect.com/item/251710

9
Video Game Database Discussion / Re: PS1 PAL - List Quality Control
« on: August 02, 2023, 12:38:20 pm »
Another reason that holofoil scans will 100% be inferior quality is the fact that when you scan the entire game the scanner doesnt close properly!  PS1 games are about 1cm thick and that means the scanner lid will remain open.  This ensures a bad scan 100% of the time.

You need to use a form or a guide to scan items with the lid open. The lid is just blocking light scatter and you can use anything to serve that function. I variously use blocking elements when scanning (even in general) or when I am scanning something that is too big. The alternative to that then is to take a photo instead. Not recommending going to a shmaxian degree using a lightbox. I don't try to scan games in cases or boxes, mainly only flat items. Photo for everything else. I used to just have a piece of wood against a wall I would take photos against, trying to get it as straight on as possible. Here is an example from when I was doing variation guides for Sega-16.


Im sure there are ways to mitigate the poorer quality when scanning the full game on the scanner.  My point is that scanning the insert is always going to yield better results, literally every time. Right?

10
Ive noticed what looks like a barcode error.

EU PS2 game - Marvel vs Capcom 2
https://vgcollect.com/item/41898

The barcode on this listing doesnt exist according to the barcode finders ive tried.  I now own this game and the barcode is 5055060920527 and that works on the barcode finders.

I know you dont like us to amend the barcodes on the existing listings and i would usually just create a new listing.  But there is only 1 EU release of this game so we need to ensure the 1 listing is correct.

I will enter more database details and the cover/disc scans once we can agree what to do about this barcode error.

Thanks

11
Video Game Database Discussion / Re: PS1 PAL - List Quality Control
« on: August 02, 2023, 08:37:19 am »
I altered a couple of the really bad ones, but it is allot more work for info which I'd argue many would ignore. plus this new rule will result in allot of poor listings that looked perfectly fine prior to this

it's not scanned with the hologram btw you just insert a hologram of a box on an actually high quality scanned item that wasn't in the plastic case. it's impossible to scan it nicely in the orginal case even if said case was in flawless shape.

Agree +1

As i point out above, scanning through the case means you will get an inferior image 100% of the time.

And PS1 and PS2 collectors do not care about what little information the holofoil provides.  We know they exist and we know how they should be positioned.  They just get in the way of the cover art image imo.

12
Video Game Database Discussion / Re: PS1 PAL - List Quality Control
« on: August 02, 2023, 08:24:09 am »
Most, if not all, of the replacement images or edit rejections were done by me.

Under the current style guide rules, the holofoil is important information and should be considered as a component to complete artwork as it is a formal part of the packaging. For PlayStation and PlayStation 2 EU items, the holofoil is not always (but is usually) present, so providing the best image information to showcase packaging information is a detail in accordance to our guidelines. Something else to consider is that cases are often swapped on secondary markets, so knowing which items actually include a holofoil label is a detail many would find helpful.


As a collector of both PS1 and PS2 EU games ive added hundreds of photos to the EU entries within this database.

I must say i had no idea that the holofoils were preferable, ive never included these due to the fact that the only way to scan these is to keep the cover inside the game case.  And that means you will ALWAYS get an inferior scan of the actual artwork as the scan must scan through the plastic cover.  And lets face it, its rare to find an immaculate plastic PS1 case cover these days, or a PS2 cover for that matter.  These games have been stored on shelves and therefore 100% of front covers are scuffed to varying degrees.

Another reason that holofoil scans will 100% be inferior quality is the fact that when you scan the entire game the scanner doesnt close properly!  PS1 games are about 1cm thick and that means the scanner lid will remain open.  This ensures a bad scan 100% of the time.  PS2 games are slimmer but the scanner lid will still not close properly resulting in an inferior scan too.

Its always better quality to remove the PS1 or PS2 game cover from the case and scan it.  I always remove the back covers from the PS1 cases, which is fiddly but worth it for the image quality.

I can also add the issue that not many PS2 games have the holofoil on the front cover, theyre usually on the back cover.  Many PS2 games have been re-cased over the years and have been put into incorrect cases.  Old DVD cases for example.  Add to this the fact that there are TWO different PS2 holofoils in existence, and its not unusual for games to get re-housed in the wrong cases.  Only collectors will notice that a game is in its correct case from their experience.  But to be fair, thats one of the functions of using a collectors database, to learn how the original game was packaged.

You also have the issue of 'bigbox' PS1 releases which generally dont have any holofoil at all.  Although the Final Fantasy bigbox releases all have holofoils.

Maybe have a database entry on PS1/PS2 games to indicate the position of the holofoil?

I have around 500 PS1 games and 900 PS2 games, do you want me to go back and scan the covers with the holofoils? (you will get inferior scans to whats currently in the database)

My advice is to use cover scans that have been removed from their cases due to the very simple fact that these will be high quality images with all the detail.  The holofoils are not relevant or important to the image.  The fact that every game company releases their digital cover artwork images WITHOUT the holofoil is the strongest support that we dont use them in the database imo.  Keep the database images clean and high quality.

EDIT: i understand ive used the term 'holofoil' throughout when 'hologram' was probably the correct term used in this thread! lol

13
For example, look at the entry i tried to amend as the common EU 119529 and you decided its the French edition so you amended the title to include [FR] and declined my changes.

The front cover image which was already there before i tried to amend is the common EU release.  The French release you have linked on Ebay has a different cover.

So, the barcode was French and the cover image was EU before i tried to amend.

Can you see now how easy it is to not see which release you guys want it to be?

14
You've been updating PlayStation 2 entries over the last week or so, and I had made effort then in submitting new entries that represent the UK or general Europe release when edits were rejected, but I did not do so with the latest round of items.[/font]

Maybe the issue is the fact that alot of the entries i am amending only have one entry for the game, and that one entry you have listed is the most obscure rarest one.

Basically why have only the French release entered into database when the EU release is the most popular?

The only thing that signifies its the French release is the barcode, and lets be honest, nobody checks that.

When a casual collector looks up their game in your database they search the title and see just one listed in the EU, the rarest release, French/Spanish/German.  When they almost certainly have the most common EU release.

I mean its pretty obvious when you have just one listing in your database and its the French release with no data except the barcode indicating its the French release.  Even the artwork is the EU common release and you have 13 people saying they have this game.  The point is that they all dont have the French release.   Theyve just chosen that release because its the only one in your database.  Nothing in the entry says its the French release.

15
Im making this post because this has happened quite a few times recently and i dont understand why.

I recently updated 119529 with disc and back cover images and the disc was accepted and the back cover disallowed and then you changed entry to [FR].  There is only one entry of this game in the PS2 EU database, to my knowledge there are only 2 releases of it in total, the EU release and the US release.  So i have no idea why this has been changed to French release, there was literally never a French release of this game.

I do notice that the Barcode is wrong on the entry but i dont like to change them as you usually never accept barcode changes. 

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