Video Games Being Blamed For Acts of Terror. (Our hobby is in jeopardy)

[marvelvscapcom2]

A dark cloud has appeared over us ladies and gentlemen    The very fiber of gaming is being shredded for political propaganda and the world at large is casting a negative light over our hobby and overlooking the wonderful and positive things gaming does for the millions who enjoy it over the actions of very few.   And we innocent people will pay the price.


Before I start this, I want to add that I never like to get political on this page and with the horrors over the weekend, I really don't want to be distasteful and make this about us and not the victims. I can't fathom the pain for their families and loved ones.  Please do not make this a left vs right thing as it's toxic and will hurt the forums and just further this divide we seem to be facing the past 5 or so years.  I know if it's anywhere we can discuss a difficult topic like this and still be loving and understanding.  It's here

This is probably one of the bigger pivotal stories regarding games so I felt it really should be discussed. As censorship is truly a devastating idealogy for our hobby and would kill creativity.  This isn't to go off the deep end hating on any political candidate or fighting but more to vent our feeling for what has transpired regarding our hobby over the weekend and try to see what we feel is going to happen especially with games like GTA 6 on the horizon.  With the current climate, it affects video games so much at large that I have to make a post about it and try to save myself from the incessant anger I am experiencing


The News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B85VBIeUCbU

For those not caught up, political Pundits on both sides including the president have made speeches blaming Video Games for the horrors that happened, yes in 2019 video games of all things are being blamed for the atrocities that happened in Ohio and Texas.  Literally the 1990s style Salem witch trial is back with the soccer mom baby boomers blaming Grand Theft Auto and Marylyn Manson for Columbine and any kid who does anything bad for the rest of time because being a decent parent and actually looking for real reasons is too hard.  So blame anything but yourself or the society you live in.  And not the obvious underlying reality of bad parenting and horrible school systems.  Just blame M rated games.   


As if all the crusaders or Lizzie Borden or dictators during WW2 were all corrupted by the Eminem rap CDs and Call of Duty.

Please for the love of god, make this idiocy stop.  We know this not to be true.



We all have differing ideas of how things should be run, but i'm pretty sure on a page like this most of us do not agree with the censorship of artistic creativity the video game publishers and developers currently have to make the games we play.  With a new mandate concerning the violence in video games.  Rockstar will be screwed making GTA 6.  As the game is meant to push boundaries and be crude.  It's Grand Theft Auto for crying out loud lol. 

But it also will effect franchises like Call of Duty, Resident Evil, Doom, Saints Row, Dead Rising, and pretty much any other graphic video game or movie that depicts murder and shootings.


The level of flabbergasting stupidity being possessed by some of the ignorant non gaming baby boomer generation yet again is mind numbing.  It's like anything they don't do or care for it to blame for all the evils of the world and not their abusive parenting tactics, Vietnam war era inspired rhetoric and racism and their constant need to control everything and everyone.  Why can't we as a society come to grip with the fact we can't stop killers from killing?  Ever.  Like literally impossible.  We can't make it harder, we can't make it less widespread.  We cannot stop it.    Take guns away, censor movies, do away with porn.   You can't stop it.   Prohibition didn't stop drunks from drinking.    You can't take away the tool to stop the mechanic.  Humans have unlimited means of doing harm to people.  It's sad but something we have to face.


We as a society and the world all over glorify shootings with the media not with the video games.  Every shooter gets their infamous moment in the spotlight.  It's what they crave is the attention.  The only way to slow it down is to stop flipping the lid. Calm down, and address mental health and the broken systems in place.  Including prison reform systems, educational areas and especially medical issues regarding mental health screenings and addressing red flags from people with prior history of mental illness.  This type of thing is why it's done and why it won't stop. 



But as a whole,  Where do you guys think gaming is going to go from here.  Do you think GTA 6 will be forced to be watered down?  Will Rap Music be effected?  And do you think Trump will succeed in clashing with video game developers regarding violence?  Basically a 100 percent violation of freedom of speech and freedom of artists to create anything. 




In the 90s a issue like this arose, I called it the mothers against gaming movement but I think it had a more formal name.  It even went to the supreme court shortly following Columbine.   But it got laughed out of court and games were still allowed to be on shelves with the same level of censorship as movie media.  I hope that same decision holds again. 


Thank you for sharing everyone, and I hope all of you have a happy week.  Sorry for a negative post but sometimes our culture gets the negative light and not all the positivity games spread for millions of people.  It's pretty sad    

[hoshichiri]

I have seen arguments like this since the early 90s and the release of Mortal Kombat. People have attempted to argue, for the last 27 years, that videogames are a great eeeeeevil destroying our youth.


And before that, Dungeons and Dragons. Rap & rock music. Violent movies. Comic books. Pool. Frickin' chess even (and no, I am not making that up.)

Every generation would rather blame the ills of society on some new-fangled thing rather than admit we have systemic issues running back decades & a government too concerned with pushing their own careers to actually try and fix any of it. In the 90s, it sort of worked & we got the ERSB. But now? The Nintendo era kids are of age to be running for office. The boomers that are quickly aging out of relevance can cry all they want, but the voting public & their younger peers grew up on games. They know better. I doubt anything of note will happen to our games. The ones who should be sweating are the NRA- with every attack, the call for gun reform will get louder and louder until even the most deaf of politicans can no longer ingore it.

[oldgamerz]

Some kids/children or teenagers see something done in a game or some other kind of media. Then they want to try it for real. And in my opinion those kids/children or teenagers or adults are the dumb ones. It makes me so mad I want to call those kids stupid. and do something else to them.

And some people blame it on all games and try to ruin the fun of video games for everyone else. I've heard stories of even an Atari 2600/VCS game that was blamed too violent for society and I know that the Columbine shooting was blames on doom fans

[marvelvscapcom2]

I have seen arguments like this since the early 90s and the release of Mortal Kombat. People have attempted to argue, for the last 27 years, that videogames are a great eeeeeevil destroying our youth.


And before that, Dungeons and Dragons. Rap & rock music. Violent movies. Comic books. Pool. Frickin' chess even (and no, I am not making that up.)

Every generation would rather blame the ills of society on some new-fangled thing rather than admit we have systemic issues running back decades & a government too concerned with pushing their own careers to actually try and fix any of it. In the 90s, it sort of worked & we got the ERSB. But now? The Nintendo era kids are of age to be running for office. The boomers that are quickly aging out of relevance can cry all they want, but the voting public & their younger peers grew up on games. They know better. I doubt anything of note will happen to our games. The ones who should be sweating are the NRA- with every attack, the call for gun reform will get louder and louder until even the most deaf of politicans can no longer ingore it.

It really is such a shame. One side is screaming "ban guns" and one side is saying "ban games" and neither side could be more wrong.  Niether idea solves anything. If anything it makes it much worst. History proves it.

I do think you are right, as a heavy GTA fan I just got scared because GTA 6 has been rumored and I dont want it getting watered over irrational baby boomers lol. But I think itd be a  mess if they tried. As itd trickle into hollywood and all the rich people who make all the moves.

[aliensstudios]

I think it is a real issue, but it's not just video games that cause these irrational mentally ill people to commit acts of terror. To me, gaming has always been escapism. You play them because you can't go out in the world and really do these things in real life, and that's what makes them so enjoyable. But I'd be lying if I didn't think gaming in general can be unhealthy and destructive for certain people. Generally these folks represent such a small sect of humanity that the media blaming people shooting up stores and schools on gaming is ludicrous. Only a few of these mass shooters were avid violent video game players, and I'd say the problem stemmed from mental illness, desensitization to violence and human emotions and physical pain, and depression. If someone shoots up a school, the homicidal tendencies were innately a part of that person, I don't truly believe it's something you could learn from games alone. Playing violent games could exacerbate the violent tendencies within a person, but most everyone distinguishes fantasy from reality. It's when mental illness sets in and people no longer distinguish fantasy from reality, and right from wrong that these awful things occur.

The media intentionally creates hate and conflict to push an agenda, they could care less about anything but their network and political party's motives. It's so easy for people to blame something for anything bad that happens like guns or young kids and teenagers playing violent video games, while they should be looking at the root causes of these problems like broken families, mental illness and the growing rate of political correctness that stifles many from growing into well adjusted and free-thinking people.

People who accuse games of breeding violence and causing terrorism know about as much about video games as I do about nuclear physics. Unfortunately, it's such an easy thing for the lemmings that are CNN disciples to latch onto, that it get's blamed. People will always look to blame someone or something rather than admit that something is severely wrong with our society. It's all so damn hypocritical too, because you have political parties preaching that they are the bringers of righteousness and peace and they then turn around and slander each other and breed violence, hate, racism, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that mass shootings are such a massively huge problem that the people who blame video games exclusively for the violence are the smallest minded and most worthless people in the world.

[bikingjahuty]

Nothing is going to happen to video games. Their content is protected by the first amendment in the US (where all this bullshit is happening) and it would be unconstitutional to require devs to cut content, especially since they're already bound by the ESRB rating system to warn people of content. The worst that would happen is retailers might refuse to sell certain games, but that would only give another retailer the edge in sales, which most retailers in this day and age would never do. No, what will happen is what always happens when there is a mass shooting or some douche bag politician, lawyer, or parent blames video games, nothing.


I feel like the most footing society ever had to condemn games for acts of crime or violence was in the 90s when video games first started heavily releasing games that features such things. Now, games are as common as music or movies in terms of their rate of consumption, and most people under the age of 60 see them as culpable for mass shootings as certain music or violent movies; in other words most people don't see them as the real problem despite what certain public figures cry about on TV. I think society is pretty focused on the real issues here which is the accessibility of guns in the US, but more so problems with mental health amongst youth and the radicalization of politics in the US. Republicans are easily 10x more conservative than they were just 15-years ago, and the same goes for Democrats, but with liberalism. Our news media and public figures have done nothing, but to poor fuel on the fire, creating a vacuum of radicalization, hatred, and intolerance from both sides. I was a democrat ever since I was able to vote, but switched to unaffiliated after watching the shitshow that was the 2016 election; each side really, really wants you to hate the other to the point of seeing them as sub-human. I don't want to belong to any group that does this explicitly or implicitly. I sincerely hope people of different political beliefs come together again to work on their differences some time soon, because if they don't I fear the consequences will be far greater than the president condemning video games as a scapegoat for much, much greater problems at play.


Sorry my post devolved into a political soupbox, but yeah, video games will likely be uneffected by these resent call to arms against them.

[bikingjahuty]

I think it is a real issue, but it's not just video games that cause these irrational mentally ill people to commit acts of terror. To me, gaming has always been escapism. You play them because you can't go out in the world and really do these things in real life, and that's what makes them so enjoyable. But I'd be lying if I didn't think gaming in general can be unhealthy and destructive for certain people. Generally these folks represent such a small sect of humanity that the media blaming people shooting up stores and schools on gaming is ludicrous. Only a few of these mass shooters were avid violent video game players, and I'd say the problem stemmed from mental illness, desensitization to violence and human emotions and physical pain, and depression. If someone shoots up a school, the homicidal tendencies were innately a part of that person, I don't truly believe it's something you could learn from games alone. Playing violent games could exacerbate the violent tendencies within a person, but most everyone distinguishes fantasy from reality. It's when mental illness sets in and people no longer distinguish fantasy from reality, and right from wrong that these awful things occur.

The media intentionally creates hate and conflict to push an agenda, they could care less about anything but their network and political party's motives. It's so easy for people to blame something for anything bad that happens like guns or young kids and teenagers playing violent video games, while they should be looking at the root causes of these problems like broken families, mental illness and the growing rate of political correctness that stifles many from growing into well adjusted and free-thinking people.

People who accuse games of breeding violence and causing terrorism know about as much about video games as I do about nuclear physics. Unfortunately, it's such an easy thing for the lemmings that are CNN disciples to latch onto, that it get's blamed. People will always look to blame someone or something rather than admit that something is severely wrong with our society. It's all so damn hypocritical too, because you have political parties preaching that they are the bringers of righteousness and peace and they then turn around and slander each other and breed violence, hate, racism, etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that mass shootings are such a massively huge problem that the people who blame video games exclusively for the violence are the smallest minded and most worthless people in the world.

lol should have just read you post first before making my own. Pretty much 100% agree with this. Well said

[hoshichiri]

The media intentionally creates hate and conflict to push an agenda, they could care less about anything but their network and political party's motives. It's so easy for people to blame something for anything bad that happens like guns or young kids and teenagers playing violent video games, while they should be looking at the root causes of these problems like broken families, mental illness and the growing rate of political correctness that stifles many from growing into well adjusted and free-thinking people.

I wouldn't inherently place the blame on 'political correctness', as you can just as easily be stifled by someone insisting you must fit into the specific, traditional ideal they expect based solely on your outward appearance. I do feel there's a specific chunk of society that's taken that PC concept to the other extreme, insisting that any attempt to restrict people into a societal norm is always bad, regardless of what that restriction is.

The end result is still the same: fragile, angry people who can't decide what their normal should be becuase everyone is busy screaming for their 'normal' to be the only one, without discussion or compromise. Broken world, broken people.

[fazerco]

Didnt the gaming industrie responded with only in America, in the rest of the world it doesnt happen (as much)

Here it happend once because the kid was a member of a shooting club, and then you are aloud a few weapons. But he shouldnt have passed the inquiary of his past. Even his parents told the police the shouldnt give him the license.

But if weapons where more easily to buy here (Holland), i think we also would have more shootings.

[Flashback2012]

Didn't the gaming industry respond with only in America, in the rest of the world it doesn't happen (as much)

Here it happened once because the kid was a member of a shooting club, and then you are aloud a few weapons. But he shouldn't have passed the inquiry of his past. Even his parents told the police the shouldn't give him the license.

But if weapons where more easily to buy here (Holland), i think we also would have more shootings.

The ESA, prominent people at publishers/developers and tons of other people have pointed out their baseless claim as nonsense with plenty of sources to back them up that there's no direct correlation that vidya games make murderers.

It won't matter because they found their scapegoat to pin it on and the elderly/boomers/ignorants accept that answer from their dear leader without question because it's easy and convenient. They will NEVER blame guns nor will they ever be in favor of better regulations. Enacting such things would endanger those who stand to profit and it's been the case forever (in the US at least) that it's ALWAYS Profits over People 11 out of 10 times. 

As for consequences, I can't imagine that anything substantial is going to happen to gaming or the gaming industry. I mean you never know with this administration but if I were a betting man, I'd say that they'll beat the dead horse for a few more floggings by barking the same boogeyman nonsense until their narrow-minded base gets tired of hearing about it and the media moves on to the next thing in the news cycle.

[marvelvscapcom2]

Didn't the gaming industry respond with only in America, in the rest of the world it doesn't happen (as much)

Here it happened once because the kid was a member of a shooting club, and then you are aloud a few weapons. But he shouldn't have passed the inquiry of his past. Even his parents told the police the shouldn't give him the license.

But if weapons where more easily to buy here (Holland), i think we also would have more shootings.

The ESA, prominent people at publishers/developers and tons of other people have pointed out their baseless claim as nonsense with plenty of sources to back them up that there's no direct correlation that vidya games make murderers.

It won't matter because they found their scapegoat to pin it on and the elderly/boomers/ignorants accept that answer from their dear leader without question because it's easy and convenient. They will NEVER blame guns nor will they ever be in favor of better regulations. Enacting such things would endanger those who stand to profit and it's been the case forever (in the US at least) that it's ALWAYS Profits over People 11 out of 10 times. 

As for consequences, I can't imagine that anything substantial is going to happen to gaming or the gaming industry. I mean you never know with this administration but if I were a betting man, I'd say that they'll beat the dead horse for a few more floggings by barking the same boogeyman nonsense until their narrow-minded base gets tired of hearing about it and the media moves on to the next thing in the news cycle.

I have my eggs in both baskets in a way because as much as I think the claim that games are to blame for a mass hysteria to cause violence or murder is so wrong and ignorant to all of us. I also think the idealogy of blaming the guns for murder is wrong too.  It's like blaming knives for stabbings or planes for 9/11.  It gives us an easy out instead of trying to address the causes.

I know with your reply you meant for better regulations which I definitely support but I just wanted to address the radical left's constant poking at the NRA or other gun organizations. It's basically the equivelant of Trump blaming games and horror movies.  One is so far left, and one is so far right but both are so wrong imo.  I don't think Neither avenue should be blamed for this or attacked imo.   And I think the failure to compromise is whats hurting politics.  As others have said, all candidates rather just stick a divide into the gap and rip the divide even further rather than patch things up a tad.  The misery sells, and they love the views.  It's a horrible game they are playing.


It's hard to regulate the method of killing because the methods of killing are endless.  The bombings in manchester or the chemical attacks in the UK for example.  A country with some of the strictest gun laws proves that.  Or how cities like Chicago which completely outlawed guns have some of the most heinous crime statistics involving them.  It shows it's kind of a rabbit hole to go down.  And the solution is never so simple as just taking them away or making them difficult to obtain. And although guns are usually the most accessible means of doing terror.  People will just find other ways or just obtain the guns in illegal ways.   Kinda like prohibition.  It made people more volatile and even more drunk the more you try to take it away.   They would have been better off addressing why people were drinking to begin with. Which is the real key.  And eliminating those factors will bring us in the right direction imo . 

 Imo I think the main factor is we live in a society that doesn't take bullying and mental health seriously at all at both the educational and medical level. And we also live in a society where polticians promote segregation (both sides) and hate to the other side for votes.  Which is all cute at the polls but then when you mobs of people killing eachother over political differences and race idealogies.  Then it's the effect of the volatile polticial messaging. 

Most adults go undiagnosed or misdiagnosed with serious mental issues to begin with. Youth are prescribed adderall and told they have ADHD regardless of what they do or say and get sent on their way.  It's all about money and not actual concern. And most adults and especially doctors ignore telltale signs of a youth that is either suicidal or homocidal.

I do avidly support proper and more strict mental health accessing for gun applications.  Which is the fairest of compromises.  Even law abiding gun owners should support that they fall into deserving and capable hands.  It's just common sense.  Especially in deep red states who seem give them out in vending machines.

Another huge problem as others have mentioned, is the constant need for news editors to pour gasoline on the turmoil of the world for views.  They cause this sense of dire need to retaliate and prove something and politicians rather rile up their supporters then try to compromise or bring unity in the impressionable youth.  And then they take the stories of murder and glorify them to millions as these huge trending viral stories which gives them a 2nd motive.  The motive of fame drives them along with their socio political motive.  It's just more and more fuel to the fire.  They cause a hysteria and it drives violent humans to be even more violent.  I don't understand how news outlets can't see that giving them attention is a contributing factor.


I think if we

1. Made it illegal for the news to report on mass shootings or more especially share the killers name or photo or especially glorifying their manifestos on national telivision, it'd take away the huge reason many of them do it and it's attention and exposure to their idealogy. 

2. Increase background screenings and mental health evaluation for gun applicants.  I think anyone on pyscho depressants or with a history of violence should be instantly rejected. 

3. Increased security and placed metal detectors at all schools and large places of business (expensive but worth it.)

4. Stricted and harsher punishments for bullying as well as counceling and assistance for all kids who are bullied or molested. Taking bullying and domestic abuse on youth much more seriously.  And making pediatric physicians have survey style tests that are much more extensive then current ones to address mental issues and perscribe proper counceling and medication.


I think those 4 things would take us a few steps in the positive direction. 


Thank you everyone for sharing


PS.  I am very happy to hear others who also think nothing will come of gaming.  This makes me feel better. 

[Flashback2012]

Thought about typing out a detailed response but decided it's too against the grain of what the board wants in regards to political discussion so not going to. Doesn't really matter anyway because the people who need convincing aren't on here necessarily and even if they were, they're too dug in to their position to ever see any kind of logical reasoning otherwise. 

[tripredacus]

People have blamed things (both physical and not) as being the source of society's ills for thousands of years. It is easier to blame a specific thing rather than accept that personal responsibility exists.

[telly]

People have blamed things (both physical and not) as being the source of society's ills for thousands of years. It is easier to blame a specific thing rather than accept that personal responsibility exists.

Well said!

[betelgeuse]

Thought about typing out a detailed response but decided it's too against the grain of what the board wants in regards to political discussion so not going to. Doesn't really matter anyway because the people who need convincing aren't on here necessarily and even if they were, they're too dug in to their position to ever see any kind of logical reasoning otherwise. 

I share these thoughts as well.