Digital Games box text vs. description & PS Store images

[empovyle]

I love editing entries but there's some confusion I have with digital games. Recently I've submitted a large chunk of edits for PSN NA games, a lot being for official store descriptions that I pulled straight from the PS Store itself, which got rejected (because it's plagiarism). That's fair, but some entries I found had that exact official PS Store description in the box text section, which I tried to remove and replace in the description category but that got rejected as well. I assumed that the store description is best off labelled as the literal description and not box text because, well, there's no "box" here when the games are all digital. A notable example of this would be Jet Set Radio https://vgcollect.com/item/38262 - what are the guidelines for this if there's any?


I've also taken the official PS Store images from their store page and tried to add them for some games, such as Dead Space Extraction, which currently has a very ugly image on its entry page https://vgcollect.com/item/13301 - however it was rejected (because the store image has no logo or text I presume). There's also other games like Dragon Age: Origins which also has an outdated picture on this site, but the image on the PS Store is absolutely no better. But what's worse, the outdated, pretty blurry image in use right now (https://vgcollect.com/item/61622) or the low res image on the store coupled with awful cropping? There's no way to win either way you go. There's quite a few other games like this out there.

I tried to resolve the issue once before with Jak 3. On the store page the official image is a low res, zoomed in, badly cropped picture of the official PS2 NA artwork.

So instead, I just made a better crop of the PS2 artwork myself of what I believe the PS Store image was supposed to be and submitted it - it looks decent enough. Only problem is that it's not technically official anymore.



The Steam category is pretty consistent as far as images go. PSN NA could be consistent too, I'd say it would make the database look a lot more clean. But when there's a lot of hideous official pictures on the PS Store, I don't know what to trade-off - cleanliness and consistency or straight accuracy?

[tripredacus]

Their description is not our description.

Our description field is for an actual description of the game. For a physical game, this is for information that does not have another field already, such as what is inside the box or other item numbers. But for a digital game, there is obviously no physical description to be made, so this field is for information such as if the game is not available anymore, if the game is a port or updated version of a previously released game, if there are any hardware or software requirements, if certain add-ons can be used (or were designed to be used) with it, the game is/was included in a bundle, if the game came with a physical release as a code or bonus, etc.

The box text is where the "description" as these sites give. However, we do not want the entire text lifted from another website to be put in there. For steam games, it is easy because it has a short blurb on the game page that is just a few sentences and fits in well.

Examples:
On the PS2 store there is this page:
https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/jak-3-ps3/
where a box text "equivalent" is only

Jak 3 is the last game in the Jak trilogy. Jak 3 is fully remastered in HD, along with Trophy and 3D support. Relive the Jak and Daxter story on PS3!

Or this page:
https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/jak-3/cid=UP9000-NPUA80708_00-JAK3000000000001
which has text we could use:

Jak 3™ is the last game in the Jak trilogy. Jak 3™ is fully remastered in HD, along with Trophy and 3D support. Relive the Jak and Daxter story on PS3™ system!

In other things I noticed, these games specifically and your edits, I rejected the change to Alt Title with "incorrect formatting" because you tried to remove information. With Jak 3 example:
https://vgcollect.com/item/64791
the alt name is Jak III and your edit was to change to Jak 3 HD which is valid... BUT it should be put as Jak III, Jak 3 HD. The edit was rejected solely because it would have removed the existing, relevant information in that field.

Game artwork for digital platforms can be difficult, especially for PSN, Xbox and Nintendo stores because they change their artwork over time, and they can have different artwork shown depending on which browser you use, and what country you are viewing the site from. I believe the actual art that should be on the entries are the art actually shown on the platform store itself and not from the actual website. You can see this is difficult and why the art is not uniform in our digital platform categories.

I want to note that the art on the PSN store (as in your screenshot) is only blurry because Sony is stretching the image. If you view the original image, it is not that way:
https://store.playstation.com/store/api/chihiro/00_09_000/container/US/en/999/UP9000-NPUA80708_00-JAK3000000000001/1502427276000/image?_version=00_09_000&platform=chihiro&w=225&h=225&bg_color=000000&opacity=100

I liked the art you made tho, I know it takes some time to do work like that!

[ignition365]

This topic comes up so often, and it is always because the data moderators can't agree.

This is why I don't mess with Digital entries anymore.  Too often edits will get denied due to misconstrued semantics.

PSN description isn't "box text" because there is no box, put it in description.
PSN description isn't "description" because that information is box text and description is for describing the item, put it in box text.
PSN description is owned by Sony and we can't copy that because it's plagiarism (So is copying the box text from the box don't you think).

Might as well just shut down the website, amirite?

What we need is a clearly defined style guide for digital items.  Yes, the style guide has a single sentence, but guess what, that single sentence is exactly not specific enough that it causes problems.

Descriptions and Box Text:

The Box Text is the synopses that is on the back of the game packaging. This should be written into this field, and no other notes, or descriptions. If the game is a download title from services, such as Steam, XBLA, PSN, GoG.com, etc. Then the synopsis would be found on those service's official pages.
The Description field should be notes about the games packaging variants/ pack ins/ collector's edition details. Or trivia about the games release, such as if it is a launch title, last title, a very limited release,  etc. This should not be filled with store descriptions describing the gameplay or hyping up the title. Plagiarizing descriptions from other sources will not be tolerated and will be deleted.

A) They are lumped together, this causes immediate confusion because it makes the items seem even more similar.
B) No examples
C) Most stores/sites will call what we call "Box Text", "description"... confusing but I suppose necessary.

I'll use Capsule Force as an example.
https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/capsule-force/cid=UP4372-CUSA02161_00-CAPSULEFORCEGAME

Battle head-to-head for control of the galaxies in this frantic multiplayer action game straight out of a 1980s space anime! Blast shots, dodge energy beams, and deflect projectiles as you race your tram into the opposing team's base! Grab the capsule to capture the galaxy before your enemy captures theirs!

Test your skills with over 30 single player missions! Shoot targets, avoid projectiles, and race to the finish!

Features:
● 1 - 4 Players
● Fast-Paced Back-and-Forth Competitive Gameplay
● 8 Engaging Arenas
● Over 30 Challenging Single Player Missions

1-4 players
84MB minimum save size
DUALSHOCK®4
1080p HD Video Output

Software subject to license (us.playstation.com/softwarelicense). Online activity subject to Terms of Services and User Agreement (www.playstationnetwork.com/terms-of-service). One-time license fee for play on account’s designated primary PS4™ system and other PS4™ systems when signed in with that account.

Capsule Force (C) 2015 klobit, LLC. IRON GALAXY and the IRON GALAXY logo are registered trademarks of Iron Galaxy Studios, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

The description literally has disclaimers and other fine print esque things on it.  These types of things are printed on boxes when you buy games... but we don't put that in the box text.  The style guide really only says to put the "synopses" in the field.  Only the first paragraph is technically a synopsis, but we generally allow down to the bullet points.  Technically, according to the style guide, that is incorrect and should be rejected.  Now if we are going to modify the style guide to allow this info because it is "box text" and change it from synopsis to something more reasonable... do we also not include the number of players, save file size, controller compatibility, and video output size?  IMO, it is pertinent information and should be included in the entry in some form, and it is technically "box text"... most physical games also show this information.  But then on that same note, the disclaimers and trademark info are also printed on boxes and would be considered box text, do we include this as well?

IMO, yes, the full description box from PSN, XBox.com, Nintendo.com, etc. should be included.  But then you have Steam, which, yes, does have the little blurb that is perfect, but it also has a more detailed description in the details of the product.

I don't know.  Maybe change "Box Text" to "Synopsis" or change "Description" to "Trivia".  Maybe I'm just cranky in my old age.

[desocietas]

I should point out that the style guide also has a digital games post included: https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,22.msg159.html#msg159

Personally, I include the synopsis and the bullet point stuff but not the number of players and memory file size, etc. because we don't include that when we're plugging in box text for physical games. We're basically mimicking what we already do for physical games.

In any case, I personally think the description field should almost always be blank unless it is to denote specific information about the variant (which is what this database tries to specialize in) or something special about the item (retailer-exclusive, pre-order bonus pack-ins, etc). We don't want to fill up the title with all the details of a variant, so the description field is handy for that sort of info.

[empovyle]

So what I've gathered is that it's fine going in the Box Text field as long as it's short, sweet, and to the point like the Steam descriptions. Normally I would submit all paragraphs before the 1-2 Players, HDD... text, along with the bullet points as long as they weren't at essay length.

What if there was a sub-field implemented for the Description field that allowed us to cite a source? I think it would work well if it was just a one-word source like "Sony" or "Wikipedia" or something to that degree, maybe even being part of a drop-down box that could have selections from acceptable sources. On the other hand, the Description field does already work well for noting little things. However, it is a fairly vague category after all, since it lumps together all sorts of things like trivia. For games that don't have any notable or fitting information for that field, putting that store description there seems fine, and thats where the source field would come into play.

Those are just my thoughts.

[Agozer]

In any case, I personally think the description field should almost always be blank unless it is to denote specific information about the variant (which is what this database tries to specialize in) or something special about the item (retailer-exclusive, pre-order bonus pack-ins, etc). We don't want to fill up the title with all the details of a variant, so the description field is handy for that sort of info.

This is what I understood the Description field is for, and agree. As fro the digital games "problem", it's a bit of a mess right now with too many edge cases. It's also true that moderators often seem to disagree whether an submitted entry follows the style guide or not.

Anyway, in my opinion when adding a digital game (and I'll use the PSN store as an example here):
a) use the same image as the PSN store uses for the entry. If the image is different across regions, use the one that matches the region of the game you're adding. However, as empovyle pointed out, if the image on the digital storefront is poorly cropped or otherwise doesn't make the cut, don't use it. I can only speak for the EU PSN Store, though. Most of the entries there have proper images.

b) Leave the description field empty, and leave the box text field empty as well.

c) If you want to add something to the box text, don't copy the PSN store description wholesale; edit the so that it contains the "marketing blurb" in fairly short and concise manner. Don't mention thing like the number of players, space requirements or somesuch.

d) As for the alt_name field, it should always contain the official alternative titles a game has across different regions. If a game is called the same in every region, I leave this field empty. Now I need to point out tripredacuses quote:

the alt name is Jak III and your edit was to change to Jak 3 HD which is valid... BUT it should be put as Jak III, Jak 3 HD. The edit was rejected solely because it would have removed the existing, relevant information in that field.

personally, I would have contested this rejection, seeing how the game is not called Jak III anywhere (officially, the game does not have a roman numeral III), only as Jak 3 or Jak 3 HD. Just because Jak II officially had a roman numeral in the title, doesn't make the sequel follow suit. I don't know, maybe I'm splitting hairs here.

[tripredacus]

c) If you want to add something to the box text, don't copy the PSN store description wholesale; edit the so that it contains the "marketing blurb" in fairly short and concise manner. Don't mention thing like the number of players, space requirements or somesuch.

d) As for the alt_name field, it should always contain the official alternative titles a game has across different regions. If a game is called the same in every region, I leave this field empty. Now I need to point out tripredacuses quote:

the alt name is Jak III and your edit was to change to Jak 3 HD which is valid... BUT it should be put as Jak III, Jak 3 HD. The edit was rejected solely because it would have removed the existing, relevant information in that field.

personally, I would have contested this rejection, seeing how the game is not called Jak III anywhere (officially, the game does not have a roman numeral III), only as Jak 3 or Jak 3 HD. Just because Jak II officially had a roman numeral in the title, doesn't make the sequel follow suit. I don't know, maybe I'm splitting hairs here.

First part in bold: this is the type of info that is OK to put in the description field. We don't see it a lot in console games, but it is akin to how you can put the system requirements for Computer games into there. But I am not saying that you should put this information into that field, but if you want it is ok.

Alt name per style guide is still valid, however I have softened on the requirements of what goes into that field such as allowing different spellings such as "Jak III" or "Megaman" to be put into there SOLELY because alt-name field is used in the default search method on the site.

Regarding Jak III specifically, we have allowed pre-production names into alt-field before.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/01/08/jak-iii-in-the-works

[Agozer]

Ah, I see. Makes sense.