Author Topic: PC Part Upgrade  (Read 312 times)

PC Part Upgrade
« on: August 27, 2021, 07:19:16 pm »
Just looking for takes on this, but I got some extra funds and since it's been 3 years from when I built my PC, figured it might be a good time to upgrade (Not in actuality with how tough it can be getting a graphics card still lol).

This is my build right now, with the new graphics card and new RAM added in.  I'm currently using a EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 SC GAMING 6gb card, and my RAM is CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3000.  Figured these would be the good things to look at for an upgrade and part picker says the new stuff is compatible, but just want to get it double checked and if it would be a good upgrade.  Even if this is good, I won't be able to get it right away since this card is hard to find right now, but I'll keep this on the backburner till I can see about picking up the card at normal retail prices.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/kHpL8J

tripredacus

Re: PC Part Upgrade
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2021, 10:11:05 am »
I can tell you that my last upgrade, I went from 16 GB RAM to 32 GB RAM just because of the cost. And that I saw no actual difference in anything I play by going to that amount of RAM. The only thing I did change was put Minecraft's alloc to 12 GB. For your RAM, only bother to do it for the price. There isn't any real reason to change the speed of your RAM but keep the size the same. You aren't going to notice it. Also I see your existing RAM is 3000 and the one on your list is 3600. You may also want to look further into the speed usage. Asus says that anything higher than 2666 MHz is using an overclock and that your CPU needs to support that speed. I do not know if pcpartpicker is taking this into account or if it is just using a simple "this thing can work with this other thing" type situation and doesn't actually support advanced configurations or know about BIOS settings. So in the end, it may not be worthwhile to change your RAM to the faster speed, rather you could just get 2 more sticks of the RAM you currently have.

Another thing to remember about memory speed (or even disk speed) is that you should only bother with observables. In a general purpose computer like yours, there is no observable difference between 3000 MHz memory and 3600 MHz memory. If you need a benchmarking program to tell you the computer is faster, the money is wasted. Unless you are doing something other than general internet usage, streaming and gaming, you aren't going to see any difference by using slightly faster memory.

One thing I see in your config is that your default virtual memory allocation is going to be writing to your NVME which is not ideal. You typically want to limit the amount of writes to an SSD in order to extend the lifetime of the NAND as long as possible. The way you can accomplish this is to put a 7200 RPM spindle disk into the system and set the virtual memory to use that drive and not the NVME. Using system managed is fine. Do not bother with a 5400 RPM disk, and a 10k is going to be too loud.

Other thing I note is that you've only got a Bronze cert PSU, should get that to a gold if possible.

For your CPU, I do not know whether that CPU is fine or if going to an i7 would be better. I did see a change (it was observable) when I went from an i5 to an i7. I believe I had to do it because something required it and not because I had the money or found a deal or something. If you do decide to change the CPU, then this would be where you would change your RAM.

Here is the manual for your board: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/ROG_STRIX_Z370-E_GAMING/E13238_ROG_STRIX_Z370-E_GAMING_UM_WEB_082417.pdf

I dont have a pcpartpicker link but I have my specs on my Steam profile:
https://steamcommunity.com/id/tripredacus

Re: PC Part Upgrade
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2021, 04:37:08 pm »
I can tell you that my last upgrade, I went from 16 GB RAM to 32 GB RAM just because of the cost. And that I saw no actual difference in anything I play by going to that amount of RAM. The only thing I did change was put Minecraft's alloc to 12 GB. For your RAM, only bother to do it for the price. There isn't any real reason to change the speed of your RAM but keep the size the same. You aren't going to notice it. Also I see your existing RAM is 3000 and the one on your list is 3600. You may also want to look further into the speed usage. Asus says that anything higher than 2666 MHz is using an overclock and that your CPU needs to support that speed. I do not know if pcpartpicker is taking this into account or if it is just using a simple "this thing can work with this other thing" type situation and doesn't actually support advanced configurations or know about BIOS settings. So in the end, it may not be worthwhile to change your RAM to the faster speed, rather you could just get 2 more sticks of the RAM you currently have.

Another thing to remember about memory speed (or even disk speed) is that you should only bother with observables. In a general purpose computer like yours, there is no observable difference between 3000 MHz memory and 3600 MHz memory. If you need a benchmarking program to tell you the computer is faster, the money is wasted. Unless you are doing something other than general internet usage, streaming and gaming, you aren't going to see any difference by using slightly faster memory.

One thing I see in your config is that your default virtual memory allocation is going to be writing to your NVME which is not ideal. You typically want to limit the amount of writes to an SSD in order to extend the lifetime of the NAND as long as possible. The way you can accomplish this is to put a 7200 RPM spindle disk into the system and set the virtual memory to use that drive and not the NVME. Using system managed is fine. Do not bother with a 5400 RPM disk, and a 10k is going to be too loud.

Other thing I note is that you've only got a Bronze cert PSU, should get that to a gold if possible.

For your CPU, I do not know whether that CPU is fine or if going to an i7 would be better. I did see a change (it was observable) when I went from an i5 to an i7. I believe I had to do it because something required it and not because I had the money or found a deal or something. If you do decide to change the CPU, then this would be where you would change your RAM.

Here is the manual for your board: https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1151/ROG_STRIX_Z370-E_GAMING/E13238_ROG_STRIX_Z370-E_GAMING_UM_WEB_082417.pdf

I dont have a pcpartpicker link but I have my specs on my Steam profile:
https://steamcommunity.com/id/tripredacus

I'm totally fine with just more of the same RAM, it was more of one of those general upgrades that isn't too expensive and didn't think about it as much as I made sure it would work with the MOBO, but didn't think about double checking with the CPU.  Probably save myself money just buying too more sticks of what I had if I can get it.  Did I have it wrong in my head, or did more RAM improve general performance on the PC itself? Not as much for like pure gaming, but I thought it helped with like multiple window openings and multiple programs being open and general use like that.  It's been awhile since I've had to think about this stuff...

I didn't think of the virtual memory when I got the NVME, I had an issue before using an SSD and HDD at the time so I just wanted to focus on one this time with the improved loading, so would this work? Is this something I can just add on and then change where the virtual memory is allocated, or does that require a fresh wipe to get things working? 

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Performance-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B00FJRS6FU

You didn't bring up the graphics card, but I imagine if I'm able to get that, I should probably make sure to also get the new PSU first right? With extra RAM and a new graphics card, that would bring up the power usage.  Do I need a higher wattage or is just gold at 650w good?

https://www.newegg.com/evga-supernova-g3-series-220-g3-0650-y1-650w/p/N82E16817438094

tripredacus

Re: PC Part Upgrade
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2021, 10:00:03 am »
I'm totally fine with just more of the same RAM, it was more of one of those general upgrades that isn't too expensive and didn't think about it as much as I made sure it would work with the MOBO, but didn't think about double checking with the CPU.  Probably save myself money just buying too more sticks of what I had if I can get it.  Did I have it wrong in my head, or did more RAM improve general performance on the PC itself? Not as much for like pure gaming, but I thought it helped with like multiple window openings and multiple programs being open and general use like that.  It's been awhile since I've had to think about this stuff...

I didn't think of the virtual memory when I got the NVME, I had an issue before using an SSD and HDD at the time so I just wanted to focus on one this time with the improved loading, so would this work? Is this something I can just add on and then change where the virtual memory is allocated, or does that require a fresh wipe to get things working? 

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Performance-Desktop-Hard-Drive/dp/B00FJRS6FU

You didn't bring up the graphics card, but I imagine if I'm able to get that, I should probably make sure to also get the new PSU first right? With extra RAM and a new graphics card, that would bring up the power usage.  Do I need a higher wattage or is just gold at 650w good?

https://www.newegg.com/evga-supernova-g3-series-220-g3-0650-y1-650w/p/N82E16817438094

The frequency set for memory is that of the bus speed. The bus speed has to be supported by the processor in order to set it. So if you are currently using 3000 MHz RAM (and the BIOS is configured properly) this means your bus speed is running at 3000 MHz. Changing the RAM to one with a higher freq isn't going to automatically run at that speed. You'd have to look into BIOS to see what the FSB speed is currently set to, it may not even be running at that speed or it could be something else.

Additional RAM does improve general performance but only in some situations. And those situations are not present in a general purpose computer running a 64-bit OS and has 8 GB RAM or more already. This is one of those things that people have created a habit around, because it was a thing in the past (Win 9x, XP, 32bit OS) but doesn't really anymore. There are some modern programs where adding more RAM will make a particular program (or game) run better, but not the OS itself.

You can add new disks and change virtual memory settings at any time.

If you are going to get a new PSU, get a Gold 80 at 550-600W. The video card you have in your parts list has half the TDP as mine and I'm using a 550W. Now TBP/TGP is not specified on the pcpartspicker website, but typically you can guess at the value of a required power supply should be. I did not look up your existing card but it is probably fine as it is if you've been using it. I think the last PSU I bought was a 700W which was beyond what I needed, but it was the cheapest modular Gold 80 at Office Depot.

Increasing RAM sticks used only marginally increases power consumption. Things that increase consumption to the point of consideration for buying a new power supply are things that have power connectors. In the real world, you're only looking at video cards these days and potentially RAID controllers, although the power considerations would be for the disks and usually not the card.

Now the only thing missing from this conversation is thermal/airflow design.  8)

Re: PC Part Upgrade
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2021, 08:09:04 pm »
Well my PC did a BSOD while gaming today, not sure why, it was a stop code kernel check failure, so I checked updates, did my new graphics driver, and now I'm considering if I'd rather just wait and save for a new PC.  I had problems in the past, like over a year ago, possible MOBO issues like my ethernet port not working and I think I had a crash or two before, but it went away, thing worked fine till today.

May be changing direction, going with a new PC build instead rather than trying to upgrade a still problematic system.  Gonna look up some i7 and RTX 3060 builds, figuring out possible pricing for that.

*EDIT*

Here's a new build based on a video I watched with some tweaks.  https://pcpartpicker.com/list/MbXswz

I figure I can still use my M.2 drive, so I put that in with a 500gb 7200 rpm drive for virtual memory, so that can be cut from that price.  The only thing I was gonna add are some silent case fans to cut down on noise, but the ones I were looking at, I can't add, but aren't more than like 40 bucks for like 5 of them.  The graphics card doesn't factor into the price here, though from what I can tell, if I can somehow manage to get one at normal retail, it's 500 bucks.  Of course that requires actually getting one at that price, but generally, that makes this build around 1500 bucks.  How's this looking? 

Also I don't know if anyone is familiar with these types of coolers, but apparently these liquid cooling setups aren't really "water coolers" like I thought? I personally don't want to ever deal with water cooling in a PC, at least not with me building it, but this seems to be a contained unit as far as I can tell with an installation video I watched.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2021, 11:49:54 pm by kamikazekeeg »

tripredacus

Re: PC Part Upgrade
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2021, 10:22:51 am »
You can post your most recent minidump file (put it on a filehost) and I can look at it. You may have a file in C:\windows\MEMORY.DMP and also in c:\windows\minidump (files are using a date format on MMDDYY). These can be zipped and shared and anyone with a debugger can take a look.

Note for the spindle disk you can use for virtual memory aka pagefile, you can still use it for storing stuff. In my PC config I linked to before you notice I have 3 drives, and they serve a purpose:
1 is for OS and small programs
2 is for pagefile, downloads and file storage
3 is for game installations

So having a disk for pagefile doesn't mean you can't use it for anything else.

Liquid cooling systems these days are fully enclosed and are not like the past ones that were just tubes and you had to supply the water for the pump. I don't even know if they actually have water in them. I never liked liquid cooling before because I was always afraid that they would leak and cause damage. I've always resorted to using fans and airflow dynamics to manage cooling as much as possible. The chassis I have has the ability to put fans in the front, so I can create an air channel that comes in the from and goes out the back. I never have problems with overheating, and even can play games if it is 90F in the house as I did last year without an issue.