Author Topic: Kickstarters and you  (Read 92657 times)

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #120 on: February 14, 2018, 01:15:08 pm »
Absolute trash... ignore.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 07:55:28 pm by ignition365 »


Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #121 on: February 25, 2018, 03:12:44 am »
Hello friends. Huge retro gaming fan here, and I'm currently working with a small indie studio on a King's Quest/Maniac Mansion style game. Super excited about it and we just launched our kickstarter: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2088193727/rite-of-passage

Would love to hear any and all feedback

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #122 on: February 25, 2018, 03:13:26 am »
Updated the page a little bit
« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 02:14:18 pm by strandedsail »

shfan

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #123 on: February 26, 2018, 06:47:30 am »
I would offer you some constructive feedback, but are you really interested? (Might seem like a strange question, but I hate wasting time typing and chewing things over when the original topic poster posts once or twice and doesn't even come back).

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #124 on: February 26, 2018, 08:18:12 am »
I would offer you some constructive feedback, but are you really interested? (Might seem like a strange question, but I hate wasting time typing and chewing things over when the original topic poster posts once or twice and doesn't even come back).
Yeah, I'm certainly not going to click and look knowing that they signed up just to share it here and disappear.

Screw that noise.

Also, I didn't see the words "physical" in the post, so definitely not clicking it.

ALSO, we have a dedicated KS thread, so this is just blatant annoyance.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 08:19:45 am by ignition365 »


tripredacus

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #125 on: February 26, 2018, 09:33:34 am »
Thread merged.

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #126 on: February 26, 2018, 12:29:28 pm »
I would offer you some constructive feedback, but are you really interested? (Might seem like a strange question, but I hate wasting time typing and chewing things over when the original topic poster posts once or twice and doesn't even come back).

Yes I'm really interested

Quote
Yeah, I'm certainly not going to click and look knowing that they signed up just to share it here and disappear.

I'm still here bud.  I do want to know what people think.

soera

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #127 on: February 26, 2018, 01:18:45 pm »
I wish you luck on your kickstarter. Personally, I only back physical ps4 releases so if you decide to go that route, let me know.

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #128 on: February 26, 2018, 02:45:58 pm »
I wish you luck on your kickstarter. Personally, I only back physical ps4 releases so if you decide to go that route, let me know.

Probably not with this game, since it's a point-and-click adventure.  I've thought about how that might translate to a console, but I just don't think it makes sense.

shfan

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #129 on: February 26, 2018, 06:20:49 pm »
Yes I'm really interested

OK then, I'm trying to be honest and helpful here so I hope this is of some use:

On Crowdfunding:

Crowdfunding is well established and an interesting wild-card that can be a great source of revenue for creators and bring things into being that otherwise wouldn't be. It's also old hat - Kickstarter has been with us for 9 years, for instance, most projects die on the vine and now a great many receive scarcely any interest whatsoever. Funders have been burned by projects not coming to fruition at all, not receiving their promised goods or projects running well over the stated time of release (sometimes by years). Crowdfunding is a potential source of funding, but the project will live or die on the level of interest and your ability to market your project appropriately for the medium. As with all things, project starters aren't just competing with others on crowdfunding sites, but all the other financial constraints and temptations in life. The newness is gone, in short, you have to earn your support!

Crowdfunding Video Games:

It's important to realize that this kind of project is all about the quality of the game unless it is either a famous face from video game development seeking funding, it's a game from a genre that is vastly under-represented or there are collectible goodies which encourage funders to put down their money. Those who work with these can succeed.

Know Your Audience:

Not only are you pitching a video game, you're pitching a particular type of game. In this case it's a retro-style point and click adventure game with an aesthetic that will mean little to anyone under 35 years of age. Ignition said something important:
Also, I didn't see the words "physical" in the post, so definitely not clicking it.
You've posted a retro-style game, on a collectors' site, and there's no physical option on your Kickstarter. A lot of the collectors here log Steam etc. games in their collections, but a lot of people here wouldn't touch download-only games, myself included. When the kind of game you're creating was released, there were no online downloads for games, physical was the standard.

Physical vs. Digital:

There's a battle between project creators and backers - backers want physical games, collectibles, soundtracks etc., project creators want to issue digital downloads only. Physical costs the project creator time and money - they need designing, producing, packaging and mailing. In response to this project creators routinely do not offer physical rewards, but this costs them backers, and in smaller projects those backers may be the difference between achieving funding or not.

What We Know About Rite of Passage:

It's a point and click adventure game.
It uses rotoscoping so resembles Out of This World.
The story concerns a man's self-discovery and dealing with the consequences of his actions.
It's episodic, with self-contained episodes which form part of a larger story arc.
We can see the animation and graphics from the video and images on the Kickstarter.

What We Don't Know:

How large or small the game world is, how long it would take to beat the game.
Anything about the plot beyond the vaguest one-liner.
Anything about the game world. High fantasy? Low Fantasy? Are there any NPCs? What organizations and schemes are going on behind the scenes? Or is it just an empty game world?
Has Stranded Sail ever completed a game before?
..anything much beyond the graphics. There's just so little actually there.

You're Asking 5k not $5:

It may sound snippy, but it really does bear stating. You're pitching for $5,000 and have made allowances for up to $40,000 of funding - this is not a modest sum. More than anything I'd suggest you stand back and ask yourself/selves if you've really written a Kickstarter pitch which would get that much interest and achieve that much funding. Countless other projects fall by the wayside, why is yours special? What are you offering? The first three tiers of backer rewards are the $1 attaboy and two levels of pre-order, they're safe bets and will probably net you the most support, but in order to really make them work for you you're going to have to treat the Kickstarter as if it's a request for between $5,000 and $40,000 and that you're asking strangers.

Money for Old Rope:

The next tier of backer rewards ($15) offers a PDF of concept art. That means you're asking $5 for a digitally-transmitted file of images that are generated as part of the development process, from a game that nobody knows anything about from a start-up hobbyist/part-time studio that nobody knows anything about. Why is that concept art any more interesting than the millions of free images that google spits out with a few keystrokes? The next tier ($20), adds the first level from an unfinished previous project. Again, why is Stranded Sail's unfinished work suddenly worth money? Anybody can go to Armor Games or Kongregate and get access to hundreds of completed games for free! I can see that this is an attempt to involve backers in Stranded Sail's work, but without any history and any guarantee that you guys are going to continue after the project, why is that interesting?

Vanity Has a Time and a Place:

Now it gets... painful. Vanity backer rewards are very patchy and to the larger part pointless. For $100, an extra $80, you'll list someone as executive producer in the credits. You're charging someone $80 for a few keystrokes, in effect. By the same token I should be billing you $5,000 for this post, at least. Now, back in the day, this kind of thing might have got some interest, but crowdfunding video games is old hat now. Again, why is someone going to be so driven by your project that they're going to give you $80 just to have their name on the credit roll? More likely, someone would blush if others knew that they'd blown that kind of money just on having their name appear tucked away in a small game project. Next up ($250), so another $150 on the table, backers get a T-shirt and a short message and their name attached to an in-game object. That's... not likely. To put it mildly.

Suggestions:

Step back and take a long, dispassionate look at your campaign. Are you treating it like an event to raise thousands of dollars, really?
Involve your backers - add options to let backers create dialogue/objects/characters/areas through you to be added to the game - this can help raise funds.
Price vanity accordingly - the two vanity options are at least 4 times as much as they should be, in my opinion.
Consider physical rewards - it may be that they will simply be more expensive or time consuming, but you lose backers by not offering a physical copy of the game.
By the same token, a limited Kickstarter-exclusive boxed game will attract backers.
Give backers more details. If it really is just an empty world with the character wandering around, then big-up other aspects of the game, it just looks empty right now.

Stretch Goals:

OK.. so why will it cost $5,000 to get the project out of the door with 2 episodes, yet each additional one will cost $10,000? Cross-platform support is good, but is mobile support more important to your backers than a more complete game?

I hope that's been of some help, the best of luck with your project and the campaign (and it is a campaign, don't just watch it like an Ebay auction for gawd's sake).

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #130 on: February 26, 2018, 08:25:15 pm »
That's a hell of a reply, thanks for your time and consideration.

I agree with a lot of what you said, for sure.  I think the vanity rewards are silly and we added them in there more for the sake of having high-tier rewards than for the expectation of receiving those kinds of pledges.  I went in assuming most people would be interested in just the game downloads.

Quote
Stretch Goals:

OK.. so why will it cost $5,000 to get the project out of the door with 2 episodes, yet each additional one will cost $10,000? Cross-platform support is good, but is mobile support more important to your backers than a more complete game?

It's because the first two episodes are already largely developed.  We'd be starting on the third one from scratch.  You are probably right about additional episodes being worth more to backers than a mobile port.

Quote
Physical vs. Digital:

There's a battle between project creators and backers - backers want physical games, collectibles, soundtracks etc., project creators want to issue digital downloads only. Physical costs the project creator time and money - they need designing, producing, packaging and mailing. In response to this project creators routinely do not offer physical rewards, but this costs them backers, and in smaller projects those backers may be the difference between achieving funding or not.

This honestly is not something we had even thought about, but now that I am considering it, I can see your point.  It does make sense that an early backer should have the possibility for some kind of "real" reward, rather than just downloading the game like everyone else could do after release.


So yea, from an objective standpoint, it looks as if we're probably not going to reach our five thousand dollar goal in this campaign.  You seem to have a strong grasp on this crowdfunding stuff, what would you recommend in terms of a relaunch?  Would you let the campaign ride out and eventually post a message about a relaunch on xyz date?  Or otherwise?

shfan

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #131 on: February 27, 2018, 10:15:36 am »
It's my pleasure, I really like the look of what you've produced and wish you well!

I think the vanity rewards are silly and we added them in there more for the sake of having high-tier rewards than for the expectation of receiving those kinds of pledges. 

This is the kind of problem a lot of people in creative industries experience - crafting things is a pleasure and a consuming passion, but marketing and making money from them are different skills altogether! You have three things that you can use to fill those higher reward tiers - creative talent, game creation ability and the willingness to listen. If you offer tiers where you work with backers to put their ideas in the game (with clauses! - you retain control of the tone etc.) then they truly become part of the project and would have something which would justify a higher price tag. There are any number of 'things' which you could market as up for grabs - puzzles, objects, characters, in-game areas etc. etc. If you can adapt your vision/development to include these then not only do you suddenly have a lot of pigs to bring to market, it's a skill in itself which you can take forward to another crowdfunding campaign for your next game.

It's because the first two episodes are already largely developed.  We'd be starting on the third one from scratch.  You are probably right about additional episodes being worth more to backers than a mobile port.

That's fair enough, just be aware that potential backers may be thinking something along the lines of "well you've got this far on your own, why does anyone need to fund the rest of development?" I'm not suggesting that's something you need to 'justify', least of all to me, but that's something which potential backers may be thinking. Regarding porting - that's just my personal take, your backers could give you more advice.

This honestly is not something we had even thought about, but now that I am considering it, I can see your point.  It does make sense that an early backer should have the possibility for some kind of "real" reward, rather than just downloading the game like everyone else could do after release.

That, in a nutshell, is exactly what gamers and game collectors were excited about in the first place, along with possibility of resurrecting dead franchises (Shenmue III) or replacing them (Mighty No. 9 and Bloodstained). Whereas the big-name titles tend to include Kickstarter exclusive physical loot and physical releases, smaller studios and start-ups have moved farther and farther away, instead offering Kickstarter exclusive download items and no physical game option. So instead of feeling 'part of something', crowdfunders now do little more than pre-order, the party's over. It doesn't have to be, but a lot of pitches run shy of offering physical rewards.

So yea, from an objective standpoint, it looks as if we're probably not going to reach our five thousand dollar goal in this campaign.  You seem to have a strong grasp on this crowdfunding stuff, what would you recommend in terms of a relaunch?  Would you let the campaign ride out and eventually post a message about a relaunch on xyz date?  Or otherwise?

I'm just a guy who's been locked-out of numerous crowdfunded games because no physical game was offered or it was offered at a ridiculous price, had years to chew it over. I certainly wouldn't advise you to cancel your campaign - you already have some backers (hurrah!), my main 'point' is to encourage you to see the campaign as a separate entity as opposed to just a way of getting funding and to look at it from a potential backer's point of view. You certainly can point to another campaign from this one's page down the line, it's a way of keeping backers informed. The other thing is false positives - if you don't achieve your goal this time, without looking at this as a marketing exercise and negotiation with potential funders, then you may all think "well, that isn't going to happen", whereas it could be that giving more information, different backer opportunities etc. would get you over that finish line. Being discouraged is the biggest threat to you, not the success or failure of a single crowdfunding campaign.

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2018, 03:27:44 am »
Didn't get to the rewards yet (and some of them are locked out because they've already been pledged) but I revamped the page and the trailer.  Would love to hear feedback if possible:  https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2088193727/rite-of-passage

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #133 on: March 06, 2018, 12:27:11 pm »
Chicken Wiggle Workshop - by Atooi
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2029149553/chicken-wiggle-workshop-for-nintendo-switch

Mutant Mudds folks... You just KNOW they are going to do a physical with LRG.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 02:28:05 pm by ignition365 »


shfan

Re: Kickstarters and you
« Reply #134 on: March 08, 2018, 10:02:04 am »
Didn't get to the rewards yet (and some of them are locked out because they've already been pledged) but I revamped the page and the trailer.  Would love to hear feedback if possible.

It's a definite improvement (in terms of pricing and appearance), it's great to see those animations on the page, I'm also pleased to see one person bid on your higher tier too. One thing I meant to say (positive!) is that it's refreshing to see a video focusing on the game rather than a badly-filmed segment of one of the team members drivelling on about how "passionate" they are about the project (so many pitchers fall into this trap).

It looks like it's not going to happen this time. I strongly suggest you look into ways of incorporating backers into the design process and physical rewards/physical copies of the game. One other thing - you mentioned that consoles weren't a good fit - there have been several adventure games released on physical for consoles that are available in retail stores right now, if you can make that leap then you've potentially got a much more interesting proposition for backers. I would also strongly suggesting that you (or another member of the team) becomes the 'designated driver' for future campaigns and has responsibility for negotiating with the team what they're willing to put into the project in return for funding, as well as researching crowdfunding in general in order to be able to put together a really good pitch. All the best!