Are save states in retro games cheating?

[oldgamerz]

"Cheating" is only something that matters in competition.  Are you doing something to get an advantage over another actual person or if participating in an event? Then that's cheating.  Playing a singleplayer game how you want to play is just about having the experience you want.  I think the difficulty in a lot of those old games are very frustrating and a lot of the time created with a very artificial difficulty.

As a kid, I never beat a lot of retro games.  They were ridiculously hard, on purpose, to prolong the games length, so I use save states all the time in retro games now if I can.  It takes a lot of the tedium out of the game of having to constantly replay through sections, especially if the boss fights are frustrating.

All of this post.kamikazekeeg

Save states on PC games was the standard, even on games made in 1991 Duke Nukem 1 the platformer. tells you to use save states after each level if you wanted to keep a high score. however if you used the health or guns cheat during the level or game at anytime your score would reset to 0. If you in a competition with someone else and you used special combos or cheats to beat them them thats not right. But games like Mortal Kombat encourage cheating though.

I used save states to beat hard sections of games like Doom and Duke Nukem 3D, that was when I was not using the invincibility cheat. Not cheating is really only used for personal preference or bragging rights when playing on singleplayer

Most early console gaming however didn't include the ability to save naturally probally because of how difficult it was to program? or the cost of adding a battery in the cartridge? I don't really know. But most older/retro PC games actually let you save at will

Some console games required a password feature but it's only cheating if you never played the games before and looked up the password on the Internet. Cheating is a faster way to get through a game. and some cheats add to certain video games.

But with Duke Nukem 3D the manual has 3 cheats inside of it just for anyone's knowledge

[wartoy]

Well as someone who beat alot of these retro games on their original platforms. No it's not cheating to play them with save states but my sense of accomplishment is definitely not the same. It's just fact that it does make it alot easier to beat these games with save states but honestly if im going to play Blaster Master,Batman,Mega Man,Castlevaina and the rest of their kind ever again it will be with the use of save states.

[oldgamerz]

Sometimes a game is so difficult especially a long game with limited lives or limited continues. Save states can sometimes not work to our advantage. Like when we save a game on the last life or last continue. Save States can become a pain in the ass, with loading them each and every time we die in some video games.

Save States can't really help us in games with limited continues or limited lives

[sworddude]

Sometimes a game is so difficult especially a long game with limited lives or limited continues. Save states can sometimes not work to our advantage. Like when we save a game on the last life or last continue. Save States can become a pain in the ass, with loading them each and every time we die in some video games.

Save States can't really help us in games with limited continues or limited lives

Ehm with save states you have unlimited lives. There is not a single disadvantage of having save states.

The only penalty is that your losing some time when speedrunning if you die during a run wich is far less cruel than restarting the game from the very beginning.

[oldgamerz]

Sometimes a game is so difficult especially a long game with limited lives or limited continues. Save states can sometimes not work to our advantage. Like when we save a game on the last life or last continue. Save States can become a pain in the ass, with loading them each and every time we die in some video games.

Save States can't really help us in games with limited continues or limited lives

Ehm with save states you have unlimited lives. There is not a single disadvantage of having save states.

The only penalty is that your losing some time when speedrunning if you die during a run wich is far less cruel than restarting the game from the very beginning.

I was talking about dying on the last life or continue or saving at the wrong time. lets say you are going up against a  boss with little health and you saved on the last life or continue, with little health, in that case scenario you are stuck without using cheats with a one or few hit death against a full powered boss, and your save state was saved stuck with low health, and no more lives or continues are left in your only save state,

yes you can keep repeating the boss fight over and over again but you won't be having a fun time dying over and over and waiting for the game to load over and over again, I am not much of a fan of fighting a boss with one hit point left to fight with myself. In a way you're correct but well that is my point.

sure you can cheat that is if the game has cheat codes to begin with. But, some games you need a code breaker in order to cheat on some games

WWF No Mercy for the Nintendo 64 is just one example of a video game that has no cheats without use of a game genie or emulator on the PC

[turf]

It’s a video game. If save states make it more enjoyable for you, save on.  It’s about having fun.

[marvelvscapcom2]

Imo it does what retro technology was at times too simplistic to do on every game, which is give proper save points. Modern games you get a good checkpoint every 1/8th of a level or so.  So saving right before the boss to do it over and over again isn't cheating but rather fixing the game imo lol. 


It makes it a lot easier of course, but easier in a good way.  Like others have said, it only matters in competitive sense.  Games are made to be fun.  It's still going to be just as hard to beat the enemies.  Just less backtracking and beating what you already beat.

[sworddude]

Imo it does what retro technology was at times too simplistic to do on every game, which is give proper save points. Modern games you get a good checkpoint every 1/8th of a level or so.  So saving right before the boss to do it over and over again isn't cheating but rather fixing the game imo lol. 


It makes it a lot easier of course, but easier in a good way.  Like others have said, it only matters in competitive sense.  Games are made to be fun.  It's still going to be just as hard to beat the enemies.  Just less backtracking and beating what you already beat.

they could have easily done save points in older games

The thing is the content is short. How to increase gameplay time you ask?

Make a game difficult limited lifes restarts from the very beginning of the lvl or from the very start of the game.

Games that take 30 minutes with save states could take days to complete since you won't get enough practice in for later fights.

The reason why modern games have nice save points is because people can put allot more content on discs these days. Super high difficulties and cheap resets not needed anymore

[oldgamerz]

Just to clear my name I never said save states were cheating. I do it all the time when possible. but save states cannot save you on some of the games with limited continues or limited lives

Example If I start with 3 lives and lose 1 without cheats I only have 2 left. I could save midway through the game, I can load it as many times as I want. But I still only have 2 left. I still need to play the rest of the game, and if I lose another life midway through I could save again but only have 1 life left to play the rest of the game.

Therefore saving midway through a game with limited continues or lives don't help much so saving still won't help you much faster through a game if you suck at it.

save states do help on games like most Doom or Duke Nukem 3D where you have unlimited lives and can save as much as your want and when you want without having to start the game over from the beginning

[sworddude]

Just to clear my name I never said save states were cheating. I do it all the time when possible. but save states cannot save you on some of the games with limited continues or limited lives

Example If I start with 3 lives and lose 1 without cheats I only have 2 left. I could save midway through the game, I can load it as many times as I want. But I still only have 2 left. I still need to play the rest of the game, and if I lose another life midway through I could save again but only have 1 life left to play the rest of the game.

Therefore saving midway through a game with limited continues or lives don't help much so saving still won't help you much faster through a game if you suck at it.

save states do help on games like most Doom or Duke Nukem 3D where you have unlimited lives and can save as much as your want and when you want without having to start the game over from the beginning

I disagree

example

say you play castlevania and there are 10 lvl's and each having a boss

Say you die at the 5th boss withouth save states. this means you have to start from the very beginning lvl 1. with save states you can get practice in so you can learn patterns and progress through the game

withouth save states you barely get any practice in for the 5th boss and you will die multiple times starting the games many times over before you get past that lvl

huge time difference

also what about a game over screen at the final boss. you have to start from the very beginning withouth save states not to mention almost no practice at the final boss

for speed runners save states are essential to practice certain hard parts in a game. it would be way to time consuming to start from scratch otherwise. practice makes perfect and save states happen to drop you off at every spot in a game you so desire.

[oldgamerz]

yes I see your point now

[doafan]

Since I don't have any free time for me right now this is the best option, in the past save states didn't existed, don't gonna deny that I used passwords (at Metal Storm) but there are not the same as save states that allow you to continue from some specific point/part of the game without having to start from the beginning of the level, anyway there were some abusive passwords that gave you some benefits like starting with all the weapons at the start of the game (Mega Man X) never used them and at this moment won't believe that the latest games gave you this option anymore.