Classifications, Listing correctness. Base Sets and Variants, etc.

[psxlegacy]

For cataloguing purposes and to make it easier to tackle subsets and distinguish which titles are unique for inclusion into the base set or full set of unique titles, i feel it necessary to have classifications for entries, either as base set (unique title, first print), base set (updated title/additional contant), and variant (belonging to one of the base set titles, but not the first print).

I have had problems adding games to the site because the database has them listed incorrectly, or it will not allow me to enter the versions i mentioned because the titles are too similar. At this point, the database has so many listing errors as a result of not making these distinctions. The first 4 or 5 games in my collection that I tried to add because they are rare, could not be accurately captured, and the other games that were similar to them contained many errors, such as the wrong disc art, or wrong picture, not the matching greatest hits, longbox, or jewel case.

Such changes and classifications to entries would avoid these errors and align the correct pictures and serial numbers to match the correct title. At this point, the database is so deep, changing all of the titles to have information such as base set, base set updated, and variant, could be done by adding a "set/subset" classification to each game. What do ya'll think?

[Flashback2012]

What do ya'll think?

Periods. Paragraphs. Ixnay on the un-on sentence ray.

Needling aside, it's hard to determine what you're trying to say. Apparently, you're trying to add versions of games and the DB isn't letting you? Or is it that moderators are not approving edits? What's so special about the versions you have that aren't already listed in the DB? Don't interpret that as an attack; just trying to figure out what you're trying to accomplish.

[psxlegacy]

you have different types of collectors, people focus on certain aspects of a set, subsets, etc.

Now there is some debate as to which "master list" would help someone collecting acquire 1 of each unique game, especially if they were a full set collector, also if you are OCD and want to arrange or order your sets/subsets a certain way. The debate is warranted because if you are only going to choose one title of each unique game to be represented in your set, you want to know if the game in question falls into one of three categories, base set (1st print), base set (updated/additional content), or variant (of a game in the base set). It matters because many listings combine all three of these aspects into once listing and are rife with errors and spread misinformation. Knowing which manual or disc art and serial number match the edition illustrated on the cover is certainly relevant for collecting. Adding these categories would prevent these types of errors by classifying the types, and allowing multiple listings of games which have similar titles.

As far as my own personal reasons for caring. Metadata sites and EBAY that pull figures and listings often contain the same sorts of errors because they don't factor variations of similarly titled games as separate listings. A site like this "for collectors" which is supposed to help people accurately track their collections and perhaps distinguish their more rare items and provide a basis for more accurate pricing, may want to reflect that.

[hoshichiri]

I have absolutely no idea what you're asking here. If you have a variant, you just make a new listing. If the photos in an existing listing are wrong, take some pictures & correct them. I have to make a new listing for Burgertime Deluxe, becuase I have a Chinese copy. Not a bootleg- a proper, licensed, Chinese copy. I didn't even know that was a thing until this afternoon- but it is, and now I have pictures to take.

If for some reason you can't make listings correctly, give us a specific example. Tell us the game you have, & what the variant is that warrants a unique listing. You'll get an answer on how to get your game listed.

[tripredacus]

You can report listing errors here:
https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,9928.0/topicseen.html
Although a new thread may be made in a couple of days. :\

The reason why we have bad entries is because we let the users create entries. The vast majority of users are not detail oriented, so we end up with "franken-entries" that will contain information from the internet. Games with wrong barcodes or wrong art. Games that get entries created before they actually exist, when the thing is actually released it is only in an "edition" and not a plain release. This causes entries for physical items that technically do not exist as represented in the database. It is especially troublesome with EU releases, where there are multiple releases throughout that region with the same title. There are still certain regions in EU that are nearly impossible to find information about from the English internet, such as Scandinavian countries.

So it should be known that almost all EU categories on this site are not correct in one way or another. This includes SNES, any PlayStation game categories in the least. The only ones I can say for certain are correct and nearly complete (some details may be missing) is the Sega categories.

There is something to say about the design of the site and how the data is represented. I am fully aware of the issue you bring up and also know the way to resolve it. That is to create different ways to view the database based on what type of collector you are. However, that ball is in the court of the site developers to decide if they want to implement.

Also, if you have any question as to how you should add an item to the database, such as what category or what the name should be, feel free to ask. The Style Guide holds all the answers, but it can be a bit daunting to look at for a beginner. Perhaps this year we can re-arrange it to make it a bit more easier to look at.

[psxlegacy]

Thankyou for your comprehension on the matter.

Hence the reason for the categories and creating standards to adhere to to classify them, along with quality control checks before they get approved by the admins. Like I said, this late in the game, there are ways to at least organize the incorrect information into the right categories to distinguish them, and then the edits can be made, since the actual title/version you are looking for will have a relevant listing and should be easy to find.

[pzeke]

I see your point, psxlegacy, and I agree wholeheartedly. About two years ago I made the suggestion that entries would benefit from going through a review/approval process and that there should be some form of blacklist to prevent bad entries. I feel this website has potential that hasn't been fully exploited yet. I know and understand the limitations and the fact the site as a whole is essentially a "labor of love", but as I said once, I'll repeat it again: as much as like this website, it feels like it is in a perpetual beta stage. I've come to "accept" the site as it is at the moment, but I'm sure it will get better...hopefully sooner than never.

In the event you come across with an entry that's for a reprint or a variant of a certain game, for example, edit it with the proper information, and add a new entry if it isn't already in the database. I've done this in the past; in fact, quite recently I added an entry for the jewel case longbox for Total Eclipse Turbo for PS1 given at the time the database only had an entry for the cardboard longbox. I also did the same for Jumping Flash!.

[hoshichiri]

I'm gonna be the odd one out & say I'd be pretty disappointed if this site instituted a blanket approval system for all new entries. Part of what I liked about here was, if I had something unique, I could get it on the site & in my collection immediately. I tried a few sites before coming here with an approval queue. I put in for one or two of my oddities, then waited... and waited... and waited... and gave up. These aren't big sites, usually with only a couple people maintaining them on the back end. It's not hard for one to become backlogged or neglected. I'm not willing to wait weeks on end for my entries to become available.

I realize it's counterproductive to avoiding extra entries when anyone can pop over, make an account, and start adding things- but it seems like as long as active members curate the site alongside their own collections, it works out OK. I know when I add to my own collection, I put in photos & report duplicates as I find them. I feel like if everyone who used this site did the same, it would work just fine.

[pzeke]

I get what you mean completely, but as I mentioned in my suggestion from two years ago, submissions would still go live, just like they've been since day one. By a "queue" I meant a mod or admin will simply make sure to review that entry has sufficient info and is game-related, not just a literal blank entry or one for a Toy Story or TMNT toy that has absolutely nothing to do with video games (unless it of course is one related to a particular video game); and by "sufficient info" I mean an entry has at least the required info fields filled, like developer/publisher, release date, genre, barcode, item number, just to name a few examples, where in the event said fields aren't filled, then the mod or admin that's looking over the submission could, at the very least, fill some of the fields. I personally disfavor users who submit a new entry with no information whatsoever; I used to go through some of these entries filling all the required fields, but I simply got tired after the umpteenth time and gave up. To complete my point, any good submission upon review will remain live, but bad submissions will obviously get rejected and deleted. This, I honestly think, could help reduce double entries, as well as it could mitigate users that have a tendency of submitting unrelated entries, dupes, and/or bad/erroneous info. Personally I think blacklisting these type of users would also help. I reckon, as you said, we have the ability to report bad and duplicate entries, but I feel, even though this is a user-driven website, as most of these type of websites tend to be, it shouldn't necessarily be the user the one that "does the work", if you know what I mean. I'm not saying that this system will supplant us as users reporting dupes or bad entries, it should still be there, because at the end of the day dupes and/or bad entries will inevitably creep their way in, but having a system set up that alleviates this from the get go I feel would be beneficial to the website. I'm not implying that by implementing a system like this we'll have a structurally sound website, but, again, helps appease disorder.

VGMdb has a system akin to this, and it works. Entries for soundtracks go live as soon as they get submitted, but get reviewed for approval and either accepted or denied, with the possibility of the user getting a message to provide more information if possible in the event none or little info was provided. And even with that system set in place, they still encourage their users to report any bad/erroneous info or duplicate entries, just the same as we do here. They have nearly the same amount of mods and admins that we have here, but they're devoted to their website, I feel. I certainly mean no disrespect by saying that to the mods and admins of this website, I don't want to sound like an ingrate, even though I probably do so to some, but that's been my impression since joining here.

[hoshichiri]

That doesn't sound bad at all, actually- although I think there'd need to be a discussion on what information is truly needed to be filled in for an entry to count. For example, that Chinese copy of Burgertime Deluxe I mentioned before is cart-only, so I can't get the barcode information. I also sometimes have trouble figuring out if a company is a publisher, or a developer. Some stuff is pretty straightforward, though- any game released after the rating systems went into place should have that field filled, for example. That's all on the guys in charge, though- they'd have the most work to do.

I still stand by the idea of 'curate your own collection'. If everyone took the time to make sure the listings for the games they owned are as good as they can make them, I think a lot of stuff would get filled in.

[pzeke]

That doesn't sound bad at all, actually- although I think there'd need to be a discussion on what information is truly needed to be filled in for an entry to count. For example, that Chinese copy of Burgertime Deluxe I mentioned before is cart-only, so I can't get the barcode information. I also sometimes have trouble figuring out if a company is a publisher, or a developer. Some stuff is pretty straightforward, though- any game released after the rating systems went into place should have that field filled, for example. That's all on the guys in charge, though- they'd have the most work to do.

I think release date, developer and publisher, as well as release type, genre, and rating (if applicable) should be a given; I think that's essential information. I also believe that both the developer and publisher fields should be filled by the user, not have a dropdown list for them, which feels shoddy, in all honesty. It would be faster for the user to type a name rather than look for one in a list of hundreds, maybe thousands, even when typing the first few letters of whatever name their looking, especially when a developer and/or publisher isn't in said list. And yes, I know we have that topic where we request to add any developer/publisher, but still, my point stands – the idea of a website like this is to keep things simple and reduce as much stress as possible to the user for the sake of keeping the database as clean and well-maintained as possible. My way of thinking, of course.

I still stand by the idea of 'curate your own collection'. If everyone took the time to make sure the listings for the games they owned are as good as they can make them, I think a lot of stuff would get filled in.

Yeah, I agree. I try to do so whenever possible; I like seeing the entries for the stuff I own as tidy as possible. I've been meaning to get back and go through and fix some entries where needed for that exact reason. This is possibly the best video game database I've seen since it aims to be complete in terms of everything that is gaming-related content, so I would definitely love to see this website flourish. As I've said countless times before, this place has the potential.