Style Discussion: Multi-platform physical release category

[burningdoom]

So then we won't have any Xbox Series X games in the database? Aren't they all made to be played across Xbox One, Series S, and Series X consoles?

[dhaabi]

So then we won't have any Xbox Series X games in the database? Aren't they all made to be played across Xbox One, Series S, and Series X consoles?

No. Xbox Series X categories will still remain regardless of whatever action is taken.

Here are six examples currently in the database with non-stock imagery that showcases a game that is detailed to be exclusively for Xbox Series X: Devil May Cry - Special Edition, Madden NFL 21 - Nxt Lvl Edition, NBA 2K21, Overcooked! All You Can Eat, Warhammer: Chaosbane - Slayer Edition, Werewolf: The Apocalypse: Earthblood

The packaging labels these items fully as Xbox Series X titles. On the packaging's backside among the small text, and usually as the very first line, the sentence "[f]or use only with Xbox Series X consoles" can be read. Example.

[ignition365]

To me, the Xbox One/Xbox Series X titles are wholly promoting the items' sense of forward-compatibility. At their core, the items in question are detailed on their respective back packaging that these are Xbox One titles which are also able to be played on newer systems.

Are they? Why aren't they Xbox Series X titles at their core that happen to be backwards compatible? How can you tell it's one or the other? Is a Zebra black with white stripes, or is it white with black stripes?

Can games themselves be backwards-compatible? Backwards-compatibility relates to systems that are designed to play, in addition to games of its own platform, games of its previous generation(s).

Just as some Xbox and Xbox 360 titles can be played on a Xbox One X and may have specific patches and upgrades when played on the Xbox One X, the items in question within this thread seem to repeat this trend. The Xbox One / Xbox Series X, Xbox Series X / Xbox One games are, at their core, games designed for the Xbox One that may or may not be given small updates when they are played on newer hardware. This is stated by labels indicating that both consoles are able to play a game in pair with the compatibility information found on the packaging's backside.

In brief, I'm of the opinion that, if a game item can be played across multiple generations, the item should be categorized within the "older" category of the two. And especially so when the item's packaging reinforces such idea.

So I posit these examples and request your opinions.

Sneak king (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/11185) [Xbox 360]
Fallout New Vegas (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/129108) [Xbox One]

Personally, I'd want to put Sneak King with my 360 games because it's that case and cover template... and Fallout New Vegas with Xbox One, because it's the Xbox One case and template. (Just my opinion of where I'd want it on my shelf)

[dhaabi]

So I posit these examples and request your opinions.

Sneak king (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/11185) [Xbox 360]
Fallout New Vegas (https://www.vgcollect.com/item/129108) [Xbox One]

Personally, I'd want to put Sneak King with my 360 games because it's that case and cover template... and Fallout New Vegas with Xbox One, because it's the Xbox One case and template. (Just my opinion of where I'd want it on my shelf)

These items are no different from the Xbox One / Xbox Series X examples. They're games for a specific platform that also include access to slightly updated content for its follow-up platform while also adopting the newer generation's packaging design. If it were up to me, I would classify Sneak King as Xbox and Fallout: New Vegas - Ultimate Edition - Greatest Hits as Xbox 360.

Sneak King
For use only with Original Xbox and Xbox 360 entertainment systems with "NTSC" designation.

Fallout: New Vegas - Ultimate Edition - Greatest Hits
Xbox 360 game will be downloaded to Xbox One console. Performance same as Xbox 360 experience.
For use with Xbox 360 entertainment systems with "NTSC" designation.

Sounds a lot like the Xbox One / Xbox Series X items.

I commend Microsoft for taking a steadfast initiative in preserving their library's games and making sure that previous generations don't become obsolete. However, these games haven't transformed into something else. No matter how they're presented to consumers, they are still very much able to be played on their intended original hardware and are not exclusive to their follow-up hardware. If that were the case, we may not even be having this discussion.

[tripredacus]

A reminder, the items in physical categories are for physical items, not games. It doesn't matter what a console does when you put in the Fallout New Vegas disc. This type of information in relation to the item we are tracking, is trivia. So when trying to determine how to sort these physical items, we can only use information that is present on the item itself.

Personally, I'd want to put Sneak King with my 360 games because it's that case and cover template... and Fallout New Vegas with Xbox One, because it's the Xbox One case and template. (Just my opinion of where I'd want it on my shelf)

The database has nothing to do with how you personally like to organise items that you own. I do not arrange things by how they are on the site either by category or by some rule we have with the name, and we should not make any attempt to bend the formatting or structure of the website to align with our preferences in managing our personal collections in the real world.

[ignition365]

The database has nothing to do with how you personally like to organise items that you own.

I'm aware of this, I was just throwing an irrelevant opinion in there.

That said, I do tend to follow whatever the site shows because when I try to reinventory it's a pain to remember "Where is this game, oh that's right Mortal Kombat II is after Mortal Kombat 3" So I just have them on the shelf as MK1, MK3, MKII.  Again irrelevant statements, just discussion.  I can "want" what I "want", but push comes to shove, I'm gonna follow whatever makes things easier for me overall, and that's generally following whatever the site does.

[tripredacus]

Aside from the ongoing discussion and debate, are we seeing any other options besides the 3 listed in first post?

1. Co-branded games go in the category of the newest console
2. Co-branded games that have compatibility info go into the category represented by that text, if compatibility text is not present then it goes into the category of the newer console
3. Create co-branded game categories ala Sega CD 32X [NA]*

Whereas the items of debate, so far, seem to fall into the #2 spot: mainly being Xbox type games that say they are for n console but while other elements of the packaging suggest being marketed or sold using the branding of a different console release.

[burningdoom]

I vote option #2.

A poll would be great for this. We don't have those here?

[dhaabi]

Is there a reason why both options 1 and 2 default to the items being categorized by the platform representing the newer console? I know how that has been the unwritten rule for VGC since the site began, but do updated rules regarding the situation need to continue this proposed solution? Why not the category of the older console?

[tripredacus]

It was because of the generally accepted idea that a company is selling a game for a newer console as an upsell. We can certainly add that as an option, as it does sort of fit when considering 7800 games and the McDonalds games.

I vote option #2.

A poll would be great for this. We don't have those here?

This is the discussion portion. The discussion has to take place before a poll is created so that better options do not present themselves after votes have been cast. Once the discussion is done, then the poll will be put up and people will vote.

EDIT: the "older console" option has been added to the draft. Are there any situations where a ruling for older console would cause a major problem? Such as something released in the modern third-party limited variety?

Also I am realising that this upcoming vote has the possibility of voiding the shared category that exists in (new) option 4.

[ignition365]

Also I am realising that this upcoming vote has the possibility of voiding the shared category that exists in (new) option 4.

I don't think so.  IIRC all SEGA CD 32X games requires both CD and 32X so it doesn't reasonably fall under either category.

[ignition365]

So something I forgot to mention when I used GhostRunner as an example.  The PS4 item has the PS5 upgrade text, but the PS5 upgrade won't be available until Fall 2021 at the earliest even though the game is out already on PS4 (and of course things happen, the PS5 upgrade could get cancelled, right)

[tripredacus]

It doesn't make a difference in regards to the item. That bit is more trivia in relation to it and certainly that info should be put into description for the item.