Author Topic: Brainstorming...  (Read 1223 times)

disgaeniac

PRO Supporter

Brainstorming...
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:09:43 am »
Yeah.

So I've recently been reading about (again) & seeing the subject/controversy of "Used Games" a lot, lately.

It seems like these 'discussions' *ALWAYS* follow the same pattern of people making all kinds of (appropriate & not appropriate, at all) analogies, then comes the arguing/refuting/de-bunking of these analogies, toss in a ton of speculation about what devs/pubs/stores want, think, or don't want, lightly sprinkle-on a bit of name-calling & insulting, and garnish w/ the same 3-5 ideas/"solutions" being re-hashed.

I've yet to see anything close to any kind of real & viable *solution* to the subject, though...

I've had a couple of ideas running through my head that I thought that I'd put out here from those of you here (read: all of you:) that are more tech-savvy & business-savvy than I am.

My 1st idea is simply this:

I buy/start a store that will beat Gamestop's prices on buy-backs, agree/arrange for 10% of whatever I re-sell these used games for (if technologically possible), to be immediately deposited to the relevant people (those who see NO $ when games are sold used); and -when all is said & done for- I'd be looking to double my investment.

Ex.

I buy a game for $10,
I price/sell it at $22,
I double my $ by getting $20 & the game-makers just got $2 instead of nothing...this would, I think, add up to enough to maybe change the pubs' stances of "hating" the used game market.

Now,
I realize that one little store doing this somewhere wouldn't make much impact...but...if I were to attain some backing from devs/pubs to create a chain instead of just one store...

My 2nd idea is even simpler -

When a new game is sold, it comes w/ a "return-to-sender" envelope.

When you're done w/ the game, you can simply place it in here & send it back to those who originally sold it (w/ their promise to give you, say, $3 - $5 more than "Gamestop-rate)"...and then they could re-sell their own used games on-line...again, giving them an incentive to not hate the used game market...while handily cutting-out GS.

Thoughts?
"Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope.
 The alternative is despair.
 And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us"




darko

Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 10:30:56 am »
(read: all of you:)

I refuse to read that :)


I'm going to tailor my responses assuming that you'll be running something small (at least to start out).

Idea #1:

You're going to have to limit the number of games you take in or you're going to end up losing money on a lot of sports titles, bad games, etc. Let's say you pay someone $20 for Madden 20XX (expecting to sell it for $40) and you don't sell it before the next one is released. That game is now worth roughly what you paid for it (maybe). You would most likely have to price below what you paid in order to push it out the door. Now you're dealing with a negative profit margin that you'll have to make up somewhere else. Not that you haven't thought of it, but old inventory sitting on the shelves doesn't make for a good profit taking. Something to seriously consider.

Idea #2:

Not a bad idea, but once again, you've got to think about getting a bunch of inventory built up that no one wants. You're also going to have to consider the condition that some of these games will be returned in. I would definitely put in some very strict policies concerning condition. For instance, I wouldn't take back any game that wasn't returned with the original artwork, case and book. You can deal with some disc scratches with a resurfacing machine, but what if the disc is scratched beyond repair? You'll have to send the game back (more shipping costs) with some type of rejection letter. It's a good idea, but I think you could run into some pretty big problems down the road unless you put in some really clear and strict policies.


soera

Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 10:58:16 am »
I think Darko hit on the point that would be the toughest for me to deal with : Way too many of the same unwanted titles. I believe that if you had a used game store, one of the main things to add to the computer system is a counter of the items you have. Limit the intake of all titles (other than the seriously contested items/names like Mario) to a max of 2 per actual title. With that being said, I firmly support a buy high/sell low option. Its a win for both parties. If you take a game to Vintage Stock/Gamestop/Whatever else and they offer you 2% of its value then you take it to my store and I offer you 20% of its value, we know which place is going to get it *win for me for acquiring the new item*. Then you are interested in buying a used game. Other stores selling game at 80% of its new value, Im selling it at 60% of new value, we know which place is going to get the sale *win for me for selling an item*. The absolute most important aspect of a used game store is turn over. If more people are buying games and in turn selling their old games, the more options for the next customer to do the same thing. The profit may not be as high per item as the chain stores but 40% profit with a sale beats 80% profit with no sales.

As far as offering options to the people that made the games, they deserve nothing. They already made what they priced the item for to begin with. To actually think they should profit on the resale of the item is absurd. Used car dealers do not send money to the manufacturer of the car they just sold, why should a used game dealer?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 11:00:51 am by soera »

disgaeniac

PRO Supporter

Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 11:11:16 am »
Thanks for the thoughts, Darko!

Yeah - TBH - I probably wouldn't even take-in/deal w/ any sports games.

Totally agree w/ you that there would have to be a very specific T.o.S. regarding the "Send-Back/Buy-Back" idea, too.

Back to the 1st idea (starting a store/chain)...I was also 1/2-thinking about a "Sale & Re-sale" 'Window'...

...Something to the effect of entering into an agreement w/ the producers, (I guess) where it would eliminate the GS practice of displaying a used game, right next to the same new game; for, say, $1 - $5 less than the new one.

Maybe something like a 3 - 6 month 'window' before I'd start re-selling the newest games?

Regarding the 2nd idea - would it be legal/any conflict of interest for a company to be selling both new & used copies of their own games simultaneously?

Is the technology there to, say, by scanning a bar-code when selling a used game...for the agreed-upon amount to be automatically forwarded to the relevant party...or would that part still need an accounting/book-keeping person to deal with?

I've also considered 'older' used games where the makers of the game may no longer exist; however, *someone* still retains the rights to those properties & would be happy for (even very small) residual profits versus none; right?

Lastly...does anyone have any idea concerning who the right people/positions would be to approach (in any of the companies) concerning something like this?

Would the "idea" be something that I'd have to worry about presenting to any of these companies for fear of them just proceeding to take my idea(s), cut me out, and do the same thing w/o me...is there any way to (pre)-protect myself w/ things like this?

Thanks again (to any & all of you) for any answers, responses, and ideas!
"Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope.
 The alternative is despair.
 And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us"




darko

Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 11:48:47 am »
Back to the 1st idea (starting a store/chain)...I was also 1/2-thinking about a "Sale & Re-sale" 'Window'...

...Something to the effect of entering into an agreement w/ the producers, (I guess) where it would eliminate the GS practice of displaying a used game, right next to the same new game; for, say, $1 - $5 less than the new one.

Maybe something like a 3 - 6 month 'window' before I'd start re-selling the newest games?

A window might work. I wouldn't push it as far as 6-months, however. With the sheer volume of new titles released in this day and age you have to consider the actual time period of demand for different titles. Games like the newest CoD will likely only have a heavy demand cycle that lasts about 3 months. If you really want to play the newest CoD, you're more than likely going to pre-order it or pick it up in the first 2 months of release. I would say the same thing goes for RPGs. More times than not, people are either anticipating the release and are prepared to pick it up at launch, or they will find out about it within the first few months of the games release date. I honestly think that a 1-month window should be sufficient. It gives you time to sell your new titles to people in the know, and it gives those people the time they need to complete a game before returning it. I think that one of GS's biggest used game fiascoes is the fact that they'll take a used game in on the day it's released. That totally screws the publishers/developers and, if a game is garbage, keeps them from getting rid of their new inventory.

Regarding the 2nd idea - would it be legal/any conflict of interest for a company to be selling both new & used copies of their own games simultaneously?

I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt it. The biggest issue I'm imagining is that the publishers more than likely have an agreement with the developers of the game. If the publishers have contracts in place (like the developers get a percentage of new game sales, etc) then you could run into some issues getting the developers any profits from used games sales. Contract law is pretty crazy sometimes, something you are going to need to educate yourself on before getting into any of this (especially if you end up signing contracts with game companies).

Is the technology there to, say, by scanning a bar-code when selling a used game...for the agreed-upon amount to be automatically forwarded to the relevant party...or would that part still need an accounting/book-keeping person to deal with?

I would image that you'll need something beyond a typical PoS system to pull this off. Also, imagine how many times a year you would have to update the system to accommodate new releases/new games that come into your store that were not on the initial inventory list? It sounds like a nightmare to me. Now, does that mean that you have to pay someone $80k/year to do all of your finances? No. If you implement a system that requires the input of the developer/publisher from day 1, it shouldn't be too difficult to keep track of everything. Hell, you could probably do a little Excel programming/pivot tables and get everything in some type of orderly fashion. You could set it all up to output a weekly/monthly run of all of your transactions separated out by whatever criteria you wished and go from there. You would need all of the data (price you paid/sold, the percentage you were wanting to pay the developer/publisher, etc etc etc). Not difficult at all, but will require constant easy maintenance as you add new titles, developers/publishers etc).

I've also considered 'older' used games where the makers of the game may no longer exist; however, *someone* still retains the rights to those properties & would be happy for (even very small) residual profits versus none; right?

Meh, you can probably figure out who owns the rights to the older games, but I don't know that it would be worth the effort to pay anyone for anything that's not current gen. Honestly, if the company has moved on, who cares?

Lastly...does anyone have any idea concerning who the right people/positions would be to approach (in any of the companies) concerning something like this?

Would the "idea" be something that I'd have to worry about presenting to any of these companies for fear of them just proceeding to take my idea(s), cut me out, and do the same thing w/o me...is there any way to (pre)-protect myself w/ things like this?

Unfortunately you're more than likely going to have to sit in front of a board of directors or something similar with the big guys. I would focus more on the smaller companies from the get-go. You'll need to prove that you can pull this all off before you're even going to raise an eyebrow of an executive from a company like EA. You might have some luck with a company like Ignition or Atlus? I don't know. You'll have to put in some serious research either way.

As far as someone stealing your idea, you'll need to have an attorney write up a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) and make whoever you speak to sign the agreement before talking about it with them. That way, if someone does try to steal the idea, you'll be in the clear. Once you get everything up and running you can protect yourself with a patent or something similar (trademark the name of your proprietary inventory system, obtain a patent license for your idea, etc).
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 11:52:02 am by darko »

disgaeniac

PRO Supporter

Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 01:18:14 pm »
As far as offering options to the people that made the games, they deserve nothing. They already made what they priced the item for to begin with. To actually think they should profit on the resale of the item is absurd. Used car dealers do not send money to the manufacturer of the car they just sold, why should a used game dealer?

Eh, I wouldn't be cutting them in on a % of the sale because I feel that they've done anything special to deserve it -but- moreso in an effort to help gamers (and the gaming market/industry) in general.

What I mean by this is, that the way things are right now regarding publisher's feelings & attitudes towards the 2nd-hand game market...is doing nothing but (IMHO), bringing-down gaming as a whole while devaluing, insulting, & alienating their customer-bases.

I could afford to buy/rent a store-front, start-up merchandise, etc...and...I could even afford for it to fail.

As you can see from my pricing/buying/re-selling idea - I certainly wouldn't be quickly getting richer by doing this (also - why my 2nd idea didn't even include me or stand to make me any money, at all).

I just think that -and- I think that it'd be important enough that I'd even put some of my own time, $, and effort into making it happen- ALL OF US (as gamers, collectors, and consumers); could only stand to benefit through any idea(s) and/or solution(s) that would slowly inch the game makers into 'liking' a 2nd-hand market (since they'd be losing less than they were before)...the hope, of course, being that we'd be able to expect less on-disc dlc, one-time on-line/multiplayer passes/codes, drm, etc...

Darko -

Thanks again :)

The things that you're bringing-up (NDA's, etc) are exactly the kind of things that I wouldn't have known about/thought to research w/o you having pointed them out to me  8)
"Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope.
 The alternative is despair.
 And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us"




Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 01:49:41 pm »
If you're ever after staff for your store let me know... just don't expect me to turn up!  ;D

disgaeniac

PRO Supporter

Re: Brainstorming...
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 02:23:26 pm »
If you're ever after staff for your store let me know... just don't expect me to turn up!  ;D

Ha!

When I'm ready to "cross the pond" and open-up some UK branches...you'll be the 1st to know :P
"Attempts must be made, even when there can be no hope.
 The alternative is despair.
 And betimes some wonder is wrought to redeem us"