SD Game Consoles on HDTV Screens

[crabhammer]

I have been combing the net for information on scanliners, video signal conversions and upscaling. I currently have a Philips CRT TV manufactured around 1998 that has been used to play our myriad of retro consoles, but has started to show signs of a bad tube. I don't want to search out another CRT out of a need to conserve space and longevity concerns. I have ordered all the parts I could ever need to build a VGA scanliner for cheap and have ordered an S-Video/Composite to VGA converter. After I placed that order, however, I found an S-video/Composite to HDMI converter and upscaler for a reasonable price.

Link: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-S-Video-Composite-Converter-DA-PCSH/dp/B00EP9V9TS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1384727425&sr=8-3&keywords=s-video+converter

Would the upscaler be a better solution than the VGA converter as far as frame lag?
Is it worth it to hassle with tapping to the RGB signals and doing something with RGB to VGA conversion?
Should I scrap the whole thing and search for another CRT that I will eventually have to pay the recyclers to take?

Thanks in advance!

[thecrypticodor]

I really hate that those scanline generators only use VGA. I don't really understand the line of thinking behind that. Only the Dreamcast has the option to output VGA and it doesn't make sense for computer use either as most emulators have a scanline option. Or you could use an external program. Having to buy the generator and than a converter is the main reason I haven't bought one yet.

I have bought a HDMI scaler exactly the same as that except it was under a different brand name Portta. http://www.amazon.com/Portta-PETCSH-Composite-S-Video-Converter/dp/B0088HNNZ6 I haven't noticed any lag with any of the consoles that I have tried with it.  Also you should take note that  these scalers don't necessarily do any better upscaling than your TV itself may be capable of doing. Which was the case with one of my TVs.
The only reason I bought it is because finding new TV's with S-Video input is starting to become rather difficult. Also it has the additional benefit of converting pal video signals.

[crabhammer]

I have a Vizio TV that does support S-Video, but the scaling is complete garbage. I ordered some chips from Jameco to hand build a scanliner and went ahead and ordered both the HDMI upscaler and a VGA converter out of curiosity. It's a complete shame that scanliners support VGA only, although I have seen several HDMI converter/upscalers that have built-in scanlining but cost a bundle.

I'm going to use the schematic here: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/other/vga-scanlines.htm

The only other question I have about the whole thing is about whether or not I should go ahead and build a sync stripper to clean up the composite output of the consoles that are rather difficult to get S-Video out of. Does it really make a difference?

[sin2beta]

I have a Vizio TV that does support S-Video, but the scaling is complete garbage. I ordered some chips from Jameco to hand build a scanliner and went ahead and ordered both the HDMI upscaler and a VGA converter out of curiosity. It's a complete shame that scanliners support VGA only, although I have seen several HDMI converter/upscalers that have built-in scanlining but cost a bundle.

I'm going to use the schematic here: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/console/other/vga-scanlines.htm

The only other question I have about the whole thing is about whether or not I should go ahead and build a sync stripper to clean up the composite output of the consoles that are rather difficult to get S-Video out of. Does it really make a difference?

RGB is definitely worth it. Especially for any Sega consoles that already support it with no modification. Seriously the jump from composite to S-Video is negligible compared to the jump from S-Video to RGB. I always had to convince myself that S_Video was better. I don't have to with RGB. I use an RGB to HDMI converter. It's the one in this video. Pick it up! Worth every penny.

Also there are scanline generators for component as well as vga. http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/SLG-HD%3D-YUV-Edition::97.html

[crabhammer]

WOW. RGB whips S-Video like Devo. I need to track down some SCART cables and that upscaler. I wonder if I can introduce scanlines in at the SCART input. If that's possible, it would be absolutely perfect. Thanks for the VERY valuable info!

[sin2beta]

WOW. RGB whips S-Video like Devo. I need to track down some SCART cables and that upscaler. I wonder if I can introduce scanlines in at the SCART input. If that's possible, it would be absolutely perfect. Thanks for the VERY valuable info!

It really does. I just moved my master system to composite to capture some footage (as of now I'm capturing through a DVD recorder). And the picture was just sad looking. I hated it. Picking up an HDMI game capture device is next on my list.

I've yet to see a SCART scanline generator. I've searched though. If you do find something, be sure to post it.

[crabhammer]

I did find this http://arcadeforge.net/Scaler-and-Strike-Devices/SLG-SCART::43.html and thought it looked interesting. So far, it's the only one I've been able to find.

[crabhammer]

I have a burning question about the SCART to HDMI box you linked in your previous post. Does it mess with the 4:3 aspect ratio? I can't find any information on it as to whether it does or not.

[sin2beta]

I have a burning question about the SCART to HDMI box you linked in your previous post. Does it mess with the 4:3 aspect ratio? I can't find any information on it as to whether it does or not.

No it doesn't. But it can. It has a button that allows you to toggle. If memory serves me right it is something like 720p unaltered, 720p stretched, 1080p unaltered and 1080p stretched. But I'm sure I'm wrong on this in some way. I set it once and haven't changed it since.

So you can have your games normal or stretched, whichever you prefer.

[crabhammer]

That's good to know. I can't stand the stretched out look. I just returned the S-Video/Composite to HDMI upscaler for that reason. Well... that and the thing was hot within 5 minutes of normal operation. I just found out that the Playstation 2 won't display Playstation 1 games on the screen unless I'm using either composite or s-video. I only hope that it will with RGB. Also, I have yet to see a decent SCART switch. I hope I can find one with either enough inputs to cover all of our consoles or are reasonable enough in price that I can get several to daisy chain. I might go the SCART to Component route so I can use the automatic component switch I already own.

Swapping out this dying CRT is turning into a costly headache...

At the very least, I know I can get a SCART scanliner. Even if it isn't cheap.

[eliphas0]

I know I'm late to the subject. But...

I recently gave away my Trinitron because it was giving me a headache and mild nausea to use.

My NES and Genesis (Mega Drive) look great on my 46" Samsung I got lucky with the image processor...sorta. It lacks S-Video Input and signal from my SNES, N64 and PS2 look awful to the point of unplayable. 

So before they announced the Retron 5 (fingers crossed on that one) I started down the VGA conversion route and then the RGB SCART to VGA etc, found it was a lot of investment  and that I probably would not be satisfied.

So I came across this upscaler and took a chance on it. (Link Below and I made and AMZ Review on there). It works great, SNES and N64 look good with expected pixelation and my PS2 looks amazing, much better than with Component Video.
I have not ran my NES or Genesis through it but I have read that it works well for them as well.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009AQ6J5U/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[crabhammer]

Damn. I would have helped to relieve you of that Trinitron.

I looked into the SCART/Component conversion options and found that to be fairly reasonable in price, BUT with the amount of consoles I have it would have been a major investment in cables/input switches/etc.

I had a 720p LCD given to me and decided to pull it out and see what happened and was surprised to find out that the composite and s-video inputs actually look fairly decent with the exception of the NES. The NES composite looks like absolute garbage but the RF looks better (thanks, Nintendo).

As for my PS2, I tried out a component cable and didn't see much difference over s-video. It looks as good as can be expected on that 720p Vizio screen.

If I can find it again, Ben Heckendorn detailed the steps to make a custom A/V input switch. If I decide to go the RGB route, I may save myself some cash and build a switch panel big enough to handle all of my consoles. At this point... I spend more time messing with my hardware than I do actually playing it.