Hey guys,
Rather than continue to butcher my first post I decided it's time for a new one.
If you want to read my first impressions you can find that post here:
http://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,4918.0.htmlIf you want to see the compatibility list maintained by me and several others you can find that here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tn3xCad0cVguOzw81367Tfg/htmlviewIf you want to listen to me ramble on about the Retron 5, stay put. They don't call me DashV for nothing!
So it's one month later and I believe the secretive billionaire industrialist S. R. Hadden said it best in the 1997 movie "Contact" when he said "why have one when you can have two for twice the price?"
Yes, I have 2 retron 5's. The grey one I've nicknamed Gandalf. The Black one I refer to as Batman. But why on earth do I have two? You ask. Is it that much awesome?
Well, yes and no. The real reason is I am a stubborn and impatient SOB.
Around April I heard from someone that was in direct contact with Hyperkin sales that mom and pop shops would get it first and Amazon would get it last. When I raised the question on the Hyperkin facebook page I was told by HK Marketing that this statement was false.
Coming from the same company that promised Dec 10th and "April" release dates I decided to see for myself.
Since I had already pre-ordered Batman from Amazon on September 12th, 2013 I kept my pre-order. I was locked in at a price of $82 AFTER SHIPPING AND TAXES. I'd be stupid to give that up.
As things turned out I was able to pick up Gandalf at a local mom and pop shop on Tuesday, May 27th for the "new" full retail price of $140 +tax.
Batman did not arrive from Amazon until Tuesday, June 24th. A FULL MONTH LATER.
So now I have two. Other than the color they appear to be absolutely identical hardware wise.
Originally I was going to sell one of them on ebay (for retail price, no scalping BS). But a better option has presented itself, more on that later.
My initial review was lukewarm. The Retron 5 had some embarrassing bugs and incompatibilities out of the gate and the hardware felt kinda iffy from a build quality perspective. But it had a lot of potential.
So what's it like 1 month and another Retron 5 later?
Well that question really needs to be answered 4 ways:
- Availability
- Hardware
- Support
- Software
AvailabilityAmazon has finally shipped out several Grey and Black units to folks who pre-ordered. So has New Egg and several other vendors. Many folks who ordered a black console got relief by switching their Black pre-order to Grey. Complaints on the facebook page about "where the hell is my console" have died down quite a bit and reports of "hey I saw some here" have increased. Europe is getting shafted the hardest with posts by HK Marketing indicating that folks there may not see consoles until September!
The short version: One month after launch supplies are still extremely limited which has lead to all kinds of shady sellers on Amazon and ebay. To be clear the system is worth the wait but NOT WORTH THE SCALPER PRICES.
HardwareI still hate the controller with the fire of a thousand suns. Tried playing Super Mario Kart with it today and it was a complete disaster. Folks either seem indifferent about the controller or hate it with a passion. I haven't seen a single mention of it being great or even "good". So my personal assessment of it stands. That said it's not a deal breaker since the original controller support is fantastic.
Don't expect actual lightgun's to be supported anytime soon. Retron Tech has told me directly it's not gonna happen for technical reasons.
For a small handful of folks the thumb-stick was broken out of the box similar to how mine broke when I accidentally dropped it. Fortunately the fix is as simple as pushing a piece of plastic until it snaps back in place.
Many folks on the facebook page (at least 5 according to my count). Have reported and posted pictures of bent and broken connector pins in their cartridge slots. According to some of these same individuals Hyperkin's stance has been that the pin damage must be due to abuse. Some returns have been declined while other customers have had success pleading their case to get an RMA.
One individual was even blocked from the facebook page after he mentioned being accused of deliberately breaking his. But we'll talk more about how support is handled later.
One of the contributors to the compatibility list recently had his GBA slot break under normal use rendering it useless for Game Boy games. I can't speak for the others but I know this person certainly did not abuse his console. Some others have reported the GBA slot not working out of the box.
In contrast my experience with Gandalf and Batman has been fine. I've used the NES, SNES, Genesis, and GBA slots well over 100 times each on Gandalf and the pins and GBA switches are still in perfect condition. The death grip the console first had on the carts is gone and most carts now pop in and out fairly easily.
Even better Batman had no death grip out of the box.
I did notice that some of the people that reported pin problems had also indicated in other posts that they were using various home-brew cartridges. Requests to see the PCBs (boards and contacts) of those games have gone mostly unanswered leaving the question open on whether it's the Retron 5 pins themselves or off spec repro/unlicensed-carts that are to blame.
My guess is it's the pins being too weak coupled with some carts placing more stress on them than others. That said, the Retron 5
should be built to handle it.
Attempts to get more details that might point to the source of the problem have been met with extreme malice from some facebook users insistent that it's not the them or their stuff it's the console.
They maybe exactly right. It's unlikely dozens of people are deliberately abusing a $140 piece of equipment. So Hyperkin needs to take this seriously, but without more information than we currently have all we can do is guess and wonder each time we put in a cartridge "do I feel lucky?"
Some swear the original consoles could take the same beating with ease, but with the market for these being so good I question that logic:
http://www.amazon.com/NES-Connector-Bulk-Packaging-Nintendo-DS/dp/B000A3IA0YSome folks have tried to help by posting videos of how to add/remove games properly. I personally do nothing special (that I am aware of...). So far it seems like luck of the draw.
Early adopters should keep in mind hardware issues at launch are not a Hyperkin exclusive problem. The first batch of XBox 360s and Playstation 3s were plagued with issues many of which came to light only a few months after launch. The 360's hardware problems weren't adequately addressed until 3 years into the consoles lifetime.
The short version: The hardware feels cheap out of the box and the packaging it comes in seems inadequate for enduring the rigors of shipping halfway around the world.
Hardware wise it feels like a $100 console not a $140 console. My advice from the first post remains.
Ditch the pack in controller and lower the price.SupportSo we've talked about availability and we've talked about hardware. Now it's time to talk about what happens if you finally manage to get your hands on one and you end up having problems.
The facebook page is a mixed bag. Hyperkin mostly uses it for marketing. Things like software updates and compatibility lists get buried in comments while reviews, marketing materials, flip-flops, and other non-retron 5 stuff take center stage. This is to be expected. The Retron 5 after all is just one of their many products.
The community itself is also an interesting one. Kind of a tossed salad of praise, spite, support requests, and retro gaming love. Some folks post problems and questions, several good folks try to help them where they can while a small amount of trolls pester them for it with spiteful comments that help one and add no value to the discussion.
The people aren't the problem. The problem is Hyperkin desperately needs to add a "forums" tab to the Retron 5 website and appoint moderators to help organize the chaos. A stickied FAQ, Compatibility list, Software Updates, and yes even a Complaints section organized nice and neat with active moderators and clear TOU (Terms of Use) would do wonders for tying the community together.
So back to folks having problems. I've seen several horror stories from people on the facebook page and a handful of happy folks. I can't personally vouch for either of those. I don't know them and I'm not about to label them or question their integrity, honest, or anything else.
I can talk about one case in particular that's happened to one of our compatibility list contributors though.
Just inside the GBA slot there is a little plastic switch inside that helps it detect that a cartridge is inserted. You can see it if you shine a flashlight in there (hey now!?). Under normal use his broke.
It's taken 2 weeks a lot of back and forth and ping ponging from Facebook to email to phone. He's interacted with 3 separate individuals and here's the bottom line:
Customer pays to ship the broken unit back. Replacement is refurb or new unit (their choice). Replacement does not ship until they receive the broken unit. He's likely going to be without his console for 2-4 weeks.
I'll continue to follow his situation and update this post accordingly. But so far it's not looking good.
It's worth noting this quality of support is not an issue exclusive to Hyperkin. I own a RetroBit Retrogen Adapter whose pins got mangled day one and I never did figure out who/how to contact RetroBit for a replacement. I still have the busted adapter on my shelf. In fact I'm looking at it right now, annoyed.
For a $20 accessory (Retrogen Adapter) I'm not going to cry a river. But for a $140 console it's perfectly reasonable to expect better support.
The short version: The support certainly feels like $20 support not $140. They are obviously overwhelmed by demand and by support. In my opinion the best thing they could do is centralize the different bits of information they scatter across facebook posts into one area and then give the community the proper tools (a forum) to crowd source the simpler support issues.
Stuff like:
- Where do I get updates?
- How do I get cheats working?
- Is game x compatible?
- How/Why should I clean my games?
- What is the RMA process?
Should be easy questions to answer by pointing to stickied forum posts.
After that Hyperkin would have much more free time to fix any internal issues they may have surrounding product support and returns.
SoftwareI've already said the Hardware feels like $100 and the support feels like $20. I stand by those claims. That said, the software... damn man, the software feels like $200 to me. Seriously.
Retron OS is shaping up to be one hell of a Retro Gaming platform. The latest v1.4 release of the software brings much needed improvements.
Honestly, this is the version that should have shipped with the console.
Some highlights:
- Overall compatibility is now nearly 98% for the over 400 games myself and others have tested.
- NES Homebrew compatibility has been significantly increased.
- Sonic and Knuckles "Lock-on" now works with Sonic 1, 2, and 3
- Games like Doom, Super Metroid, and Super Street Fighter II now work. (SSFII for Genny is wacky and still refuses to work for some folks.)
- Save Copying now works across the board. No more butchered saves
- Game Genie Codes now work for all platforms except GBA. (although nes game genie support still has some limitations.)
- You can now use Sega Master System controllers! (The 3 of you who wanted this can rejoice!
)
Now I beat Hyperkin up pretty bad in the hardware and support section (and I won't apologize for it). But I have to be fair and give a shout out to their software guys.
The software guys are doing a great job and they are the ones saving this console from being a complete disaster.Retron Tech in particular has been immensely helpful and engaged. He (she?) has reviewed our compatibility list from time to time and engaged with me and others on the list directly to tackle problem games.
In some cases Retron Tech has even asked us to preview builds before release. In doing so we've hepled point out and resolve some issues before public release.
Is your copy of The Lost Vikings now detecting properly? Is your master System Controller Working now? Is your Sonic and Knuckles working correctly with Sonic 2? You're welcome. You pointed it out. We documented it. They implemented it and we helped them verify. When's the last time you got to collaborate like that with the other video game companies?
Which brings me to the usefulness of 2 consoles.
I use Gandalf to try out new official and private firmwares. While I deliberately keep Batman one official firmware release behind so I can see if bugs, etc. are new or carried over from the old firmware.
To be clear I'm not paid for this. I don't get any special discounts or free swag or anything from Hyperkin (although they do know how to contact me...
).
So why the hell do I do this?
Honestly, I just love retro gaming. I got into software development because I wanted to make video games. As luck would have it my life has taken me on a different route. One in which I spend my day in medical data centers keeping mission critical apps running. It's the exact opposite of the fun and excitement to be had making and testing video games.
When I come home from a long draining day of data center stuff I like to unplug and come home to what reminds me of simpler times. Unfortunately my original consoles are showing their age more with each passing day. Requiring more TLC to keep up and going. I've had to study electronics and buy tons of electrical repair stuff just to keep it all going and lets face it. That's just buying me time.
The short version:I firmly believe that the future of retro gaming is in clone systems. (Damn that sounds profound doesn't it?
None of the clone systems I've tried so far are up to par (yet). The Retron 5 is the closest. Second in my mind goes to the Retrobit Retro Duo Portable v2.0 (with a Retrogen Adapter and a Super GameBoy). SNES Star Fox is amazing as a portable game btw.
The Retron 5 maintains the edge because it's half software. The updates released over the last month have proven to me that the Retron 5 will ultimately be the most compatible clone system released so far (if it's not already).
The short-short version:The Retron 5 is a case of awesome software coupled with questionable hardware. But nothing a 2.0 revision of the hardware couldn't fix.
Hyperkin needs to take a long hard look at the community it's pulled together and focus on addressing their needs and concerns because it's this same community that will make or destroy the Retron 5.
As it stands now the Retron 5 talks the talk but stumbles a few times while walking the walk.
With the latest software being so amazing and both Gandalf and Batman not (yet) experiencing any hardware related problems I can't bring myself to say don't buy one.
I will say if you are going to buy one proceed with caution. Know it's bleeding edge. Know you could have issues, and know the process for returning it is probably going to be a pain in the ass.
Also know that if they turn things around and show the same commitment in other the other 3 areas that they have in the software area this is going to be a hard system to beat.
