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| Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?... |
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| sin2beta:
--- Quote from: burningdoom on January 31, 2015, 02:12:57 pm ---I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore: Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one". --- End quote --- While this is true, you can also find ads that directly link the term "pc" to a specific type of computer. The "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" commercials illustrate this. Apple was not positioning it's Mac line to the umbrella term that all computers (even the mac) are under. They were comparing themselves to Windows. Now there are reasons for this terms history. The term "personal computer" dates back well before the era this thread relates to. Wikipedia lists the term as dating back to 1963. In this case, the term is really more a small computer for the home than a brand. Then as the personal computer became a reality, different names popped up. Commodore 64, Amiga, Apple ii,ZX Spectrum, TRS 80, Atari 800, etc. I tend to call these types of machines Microcomputers.But they were also certainly personal computers. People would say I have an Apple, C64, MSX, or a trash 80. In a few cases, people may even say that they had a wang. :P Despite the brand, people rarely said I had a personal computer or pc. That was too generic and non-descriptive. Now enter IBM, with all of its non-creativity. They named their computer the PC 5150, The PC XT, or the PCJr. Generally, you would not say I have an IBM (not descriptive enough) you also wouldn't say 5150. PC denoted enough. Then DOS became Windows, etc etc. and now PC means Windows. But it is directly due to IBM being a creativeless group in terms of marketing. Even Linux machines are not usually called PCs in popular vernacular. Usually Linux Box or something of the like is used. It's an interesting history. But PC did come to mean IBM (early/mid 80s) -> DOS/IBM compatible (late 80s) -> Windows (early 90s). |
| burningdoom:
--- Quote from: BarbaricAvatar on January 31, 2015, 07:02:24 pm --- --- Quote from: burningdoom on January 31, 2015, 02:12:57 pm ---I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore: Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one". --- End quote --- I covered that a few posts back with the definitions of IBM/Compatibles and Apples. You read that right? Oh. Of course. I accept you're the go-to guy for Nintendo games and consoles, but one would be better off talking to a muppet without a hand up it's bum for PC knowledge. You said so yourself you didn't have a PC and neither did anyone in your shantytown, so how could you possibly know what the differences between IBM/Compatibles/Apple amongst users were in the day? --- End quote --- 1. I never said I didn't have a PC. I said the average American didn't back then. I had a C64 until we got a Windows machine. 2. I never once specified "amongst users" nor did I specify any group. jakandsig said that no one called non-IBM computers PCs. I pointed out that sure they did back then all the time in ads and that it was a buzzword back then (hence showing the ads). 3. Yeah, I read your post, then I showed you ads where those very companies used the word PC or personal computer. Personally, I'm taking the actual ads as evidence over joe-schmoe on a message board telling me his word is somehow evidence otherwise. 4. Before you go getting all pissy and start getting mouthy with me, try to keep up with what's going on or at least try to have a discussion like an adult. |
| BarbaricAvatar:
--- Quote from: burningdoom on January 31, 2015, 08:03:25 pm --- --- Quote from: BarbaricAvatar on January 31, 2015, 07:02:24 pm --- --- Quote from: burningdoom on January 31, 2015, 02:12:57 pm ---I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore: Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one". --- End quote --- I covered that a few posts back with the definitions of IBM/Compatibles and Apples. You read that right? Oh. Of course. I accept you're the go-to guy for Nintendo games and consoles, but one would be better off talking to a muppet without a hand up it's bum for PC knowledge. You said so yourself you didn't have a PC and neither did anyone in your shantytown, so how could you possibly know what the differences between IBM/Compatibles/Apple amongst users were in the day? --- End quote --- 1. I never said I didn't have a PC. I said the average American didn't back then. I had a C64 until we got a Windows machine. 2. I never once specified "amongst users" nor did I specify any group. jakandsig said that no one called non-IBM computers PCs. I pointed out that sure they did back then all the time in ads and that it was a buzzword back then (hence showing the ads). 3. Yeah, I read your post, then I showed you ads where those very companies used the word PC or personal computer. Personally, I'm taking the actual ads as evidence over joe-schmoe on a message board telling me his word is somehow evidence otherwise. 4. Before you go getting all pissy and start getting mouthy with me, try to keep up with what's going on or at least try to have a discussion like an adult. --- End quote --- Who's getting pissy?! You're the one posting nonsense and refusing to back down even though more and more people are joining the joyful discussion to tell you how utterly clueless you are on this subject. ;) It doesn't matter what people said in adverts, there was only one PC and that was the IBM/Compatible. Simply because Apples were Apples (Or "Mac's" to people who had one), C64's were C64's (or Home Computers in other territories), CPC's were Home Computers, Spectrum's were Home Computers. Just because a computer/games system has a keyboard doesn't make it a PC, no matter what the marketer's say. Or are you really that gullible that you take everything said in adverts as unfiltered reality? If Nintendo made a qwerty keyboard for the WiiU, would that then be a PC if Satoru Iwata said it was in a TV campaign? |
| burningdoom:
Posting nonsense? I've posted evidence more than once now...where is yours other than you say so? A single piece of evidence to counter-act mine? And your argument seems to keep changing. The discussion originally was that no one called them PCs. Which I then countered with sure they do, they used it in marketing all the time. Then after I showed some ads proving that. The argument morphed into "users" don't say that and I'm not a user so how would I have a clue? (even though I had a C64 and a windows PC.) Now the argument is that I'm taking adverts as unfiltered reality and I'm gullible to believe it. I've never once backed down from my argument that they were indeed referred to as PCs for a time, and I still don't. I know that PCs are Windows-systems nowadays. But the fact still stands that non-IBMs were referred to as PCs for a time. Maybe not by you and your friends, but my evidence is irrefutable that it was referred to as such. And it's not just one commercial or even one company's commercial, but multiple ones. I don't know if you were referring to Sin2Beta's post when you mentioned others joining in, but he's pretty much saying what I was saying but you keep trying to twist into other things: --- Quote ---The term "personal computer" dates back well before the era this thread relates to. Wikipedia lists the term as dating back to 1963. In this case, the term is really more a small computer for the home than a brand. Then as the personal computer became a reality, different names popped up. Commodore 64, Amiga, Apple ii,ZX Spectrum, TRS 80, Atari 800, etc. I tend to call these types of machines Microcomputers. But they were also certainly personal computers. --- End quote --- But since you believe your own word over the likes of Commodore, Apple, and Radio Shack here's some more evidence that I'm sure you'll somehow refute as me talking out my ass or somehow just being too gullible to believe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer#Terminology According to Wikipedia, the term dates back before IBM ever put a PC in a home setting. But how could that be if PC always meant IBMs only...hmm. Here's an entry on the Commodore PET. The first commercially successful mass-market PC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_PET Or how about the Amstrad CPC? I don't even need to post a link for that one, do I? It's in the name for crying out loud! But you seem to be stuck on the fact that you and your group of computer friends didn't call them PCs, therefore none of the rest of it counts. And that marketing terms, somehow don't count (despite the fact that they're the ones that made the machines). PC gaming may not be my first forte, but I'm VERY interested in the history of gaming and have a shelf full of books on the subject. Or does Apple, Commodore, Radio Shack, Amstrad, and Wikipedia still count as "no one"? The term has evolved with home computers to mean what it means today. I mean come on man! How much evidence do you need to concede that others did call them PCs back then?! Now, please show me some evidence otherwise. |
| davifus:
Im not versed, known, approximately close, beside, within, anywhere near the knowledge on oldcomputers, but its getting a little out of hand here. Im just saying but there is a lot of hostility here. |
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