Author Topic: Hardware naming  (Read 2812 times)

Hardware naming
« on: January 11, 2016, 01:26:46 am »
First of all, welcome everyone as it's my first post here :).

I just created an account here yesterday and I'm slowly starting to add items I own to my collection, starting with the consoles. I started with the PSX and PS2 and while I had no trouble finding the two models of the PSX/Psone I own, I couldn't find PS2 models I own.

Instead of instantly adding them, I started browsing what other PS2 models are listed on the site, deciding not to trust the search results so blindly and I found there's a lot issues with the naming of the PS2 models.
I did a bunch of edits, originally mistaking two model numbers of PS2 as one, but turned out the PS2 I got the box with came with a box and instructions from a different model (who would have thought :P) - the edit was initially accepted but luckily my correctional edit was accepted as fast as well :).
After that I browsed through all the different PS2 models listed in the page, trying to sort them out, contributing some mistakes/ommisions, like missing model numbers or missing/unprecise regions (there are more than 3 regions in the PS2 consoles that was used on the website; Wikipedia lists them well on PSP page and they seem to correspond to PS2 regions from what I saw).

However, some of my editions weren't so obvious with an objective to help clean up/standarize the naming, and Style Guide unfortunately doesn't help either. Let me break down the problem:
  • There were 3 designs of PS2. original "fat" one, Slim/Slimline and a Slim/Slimline with an embedded power supply on the latest model. Those were mostly referred in the current submissions as:
    • Sony PlayStation 2
    • Sony PlayStation 2 Slim *or* Slimline (inconsistency here, I assumed "Slim" would be the more common naming)
    • Sony PlayStation 2 Slim - 2nd version (although it was used only once; no idea if the differences are enough to differentiate models SCPH-9000x from the other slim units)
  • On top of that, there are quite a bunch of different models on top of the Fat/Slim versions, all with some internal differences
  • And to add to it, there are different regions. Three mail ones are Japan (NTSC-J), US (NTSC-U) and EU (PAL), but there are different model numbers for a wider array or regions (Australia, United Kingdom, Russia and more)
  • There are of course also different colors (with a basic unnamed(?) "Black" color for the fat units and named on the box "Charcoal Black" Slim color) and editions, too.
Now, the Style Guide only says that the (special?) colors and editions should be named following the "-", but says nothing about model numbers and regions.

So far I came up to the conclusion that the names like "Sony PlayStation 2 Slim - Charcoal Black (SCPH-79004) [EU]" are the most logical ones, and that's how I named my missing entries, though I'm not sure about whether the default "Black" and "Charcoal Black" colors should be named or not (though the "Charcoal Black" is the name written on my box, so kinda a part of a console name - but I can't say if it's written like that on all the boxes out there, and it seems not to be named on the original fat console boxes either), or whether or not the last number of the model is enough to warrant a "variant", as "The final digit is simply a region code and has no bearing on the hardware other than region lock-outs for games and DVDs, and language options within the system software."

Now I have the same problem adding my Xbox to the collection, as there are only two entries: Microsoft Xbox (with no region indication - generic? eu?) and Microsoft Xbox [NA].

Any clarification/elaboration and replies would be helpful in clearing the matter a bit for me :).

TL;DR: How to properly name consoles with different model numbers, regions and colors, with the Style Guide only mentioning the latter?

P.S. Sorry if I made some mistakes or made something unclear, as I wrote the post when it was way too late (or to early, depend how you look at it) to think clearly enough upon proofreading it)

tripredacus

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 11:04:12 am »
We notice the hardware sections are in rough shape. :)

In my opinion, I would put them in like so.
Sony PlayStation 2 - Black SCPH-39004 [EU]
Like this but without parenthesis.
http://vgcollect.com/item/77724

Each box has the model number on it somewhere.

However titles like this are in error:
http://vgcollect.com/item/16511
As the box does not say Slim on it. Such a thing could be mentioned in the description field, but use of the 3rd (cart) image having a picture of the actual console would handle the identification.

So, you have to approach console hardware by the boxed releases and not by the consoles themselves. The consoles were not available on their own with exception to demo/kiosk or dev/debug units.

We are lucky that Sony puts the model on the box. For other consoles such as Sega Genesis, this information is not readily available. In such cases (or until the database is able to support further info) you would use the Note field when you add an item to your collection to write what is different with your release. As an example, I use the note field to put whether my Sega games have hangtabs or not.

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 11:43:08 am »
This is one disadvantage to letting anyone submit new items to the database. Generally the admin and VGC regulars are fairly vigilant on most other categories but hardware are a weak point I think. I would have to admit that the hardware categories are quite neglected when it comes to monitoring. Maybe because there's generally less total items in any given hardware section (when compared to the systems software) so people don't tend to long into them.

Some of us have actually started a cleanup process recently. Feel free to join in! If there's any obvious duplicates submit them to the duplicate thread so an admin can remove them.

Welcome to VGCollect by the way.

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 01:52:42 pm »
Thank you for all the replies so far :).

Some of us have actually started a cleanup process recently. Feel free to join in! If there's any obvious duplicates submit them to the duplicate thread so an admin can remove them.
I thought about sending some consoles as a duplicate entries, though I saw some of the entries are already removed - gonna pick up and post the rest then. And about joining the project, sure, why not - as long as I'll be adding the consoles I have, I'll be doing the research anyway :).

By the way, how is it handled if the item is in some people's collection is removed? Do they lose it and have to re-add it, or are they always merged with an another item? Either way, there is some confusion with the items that have the region listed wrong anyway, for example SCPH-39000 is listed as an [EU] console, with the original submitter probably having 39000 series (or 3900x) in mind, but in fact the SCPH-39000 is the model number of the Japanese console.

Also it seems that my edits with the [UK] and [AU] title changes were rejected - my assuption being only the [JP], [NA] and [EU] are accepted (though it feel odd to consider an Australian console as EU(rope) - something along the lines of PAL would be more appropriate) - I suspect that means that the Sony PlayStation 2 Slim - Black (SCPH-75008) [RU] should be changed to [EU] as well?

If so, I'll add the appropriate info int the description box, and maybe the alt-name field?

tripredacus

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 01:56:08 pm »
I was under the impression that dupes are merged. Only listing errors get deleted.

fazerco

PRO Supporter

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 03:21:47 pm »
I was under the impression that dupes are merged. Only listing errors get deleted.

They do merge, otherwise your collection could be wrong. But if no one is hanging to the item they can remove it  ;)

karyann

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 06:10:18 pm »
Hardware is definitely a weak point in the database. Your help in cleaning this up is much appreciated! Personally I like the "Sony PlayStation 2 Slim - Charcoal Black (SCPH-79004) [EU]" format.

I'd also include the color name in the title since it removes all possibility of confusion, and keeps things consistent.

aliensstudios

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 11:05:30 pm »
I'm so OCD that I don't even add hardware in my collection simply because of the issue OP mentioned.
"I collect vidya games and vidya game accessories, I tell you what."

tripredacus

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2016, 10:30:49 am »
Hardware is definitely a weak point in the database. Your help in cleaning this up is much appreciated! Personally I like the "Sony PlayStation 2 Slim - Charcoal Black (SCPH-79004) [EU]" format.

Is this to be an official example, at least where PlayStation is concerned? This could be put into that "common sense" discussion from elsewhere. Aren't Slim and Fat fan-terms? Wouldn't that be more appropriate either in Alt-Name or Item Description?

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2016, 07:37:45 pm »
Aren't Slim and Fat fan-terms? Wouldn't that be more appropriate either in Alt-Name or Item Description?
I was under impression that at least the "Slim" part was an official marketting term, just like PSP was marketted as "Slim & Lite", but I couldn't find anything at the box I have (It's the latest model box though), nor anything via quick googling or a web archive page (though EU part wasn't indexed properly unfortunately :(). Anyone have any more insight on this matter?

Still, using Slim in the title allows to easily recognize those consoles - if we want to opt for the original titles only, why not use a parenthesis? It'll be a 2nd one unfortunately (another one specifying the model), but still gramatically correct: ex. Sony PlayStation (Slim) - Charcoal Black (SCPH-70004) [EU].

Another question is, how do we name the 2nd slim refresh? Is it regular "Slim" or  "Super Slim"? Currently one of them is called "Slim - 2nd version while the other one is just a regular "Slim

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2016, 09:09:20 am »
Aren't Slim and Fat fan-terms? Wouldn't that be more appropriate either in Alt-Name or Item Description?
I was under impression that at least the "Slim" part was an official marketting term, just like PSP was marketted as "Slim & Lite", but I couldn't find anything at the box I have (It's the latest model box though), nor anything via quick googling or a web archive page (though EU part wasn't indexed properly unfortunately :(). Anyone have any more insight on this matter?

Still, using Slim in the title allows to easily recognize those consoles - if we want to opt for the original titles only, why not use a parenthesis? It'll be a 2nd one unfortunately (another one specifying the model), but still gramatically correct: ex. Sony PlayStation (Slim) - Charcoal Black (SCPH-70004) [EU].

Another question is, how do we name the 2nd slim refresh? Is it regular "Slim" or  "Super Slim"? Currently one of them is called "Slim - 2nd version while the other one is just a regular "Slim
I thought the official name for the 2nd slim was "Super Slim"


Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2016, 10:58:05 am »
I thought the official name for the 2nd slim was "Super Slim"
Dunno if it's official, but for sure it was referred as such: ex. 1, ex. 2.

I'd still prefer using that name instead of "Slim - 2nd version", as it's more concise and to the point (and also sometimes used, even if rarely)

tripredacus

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2016, 11:14:30 am »
What I'm getting at is that shape designations are redundant in a title entry where the model number already exists. There would be no time ever that a single model number could be any of the different shapes the console itself may have.

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2016, 11:30:56 am »
What I'm getting at is that shape designations are redundant in a title entry where the model number already exists. There would be no time ever that a single model number could be any of the different shapes the console itself may have.
That's actually a valid point too; since we have the exact numbers, just make sure that the alt title fields are properly filled so the people looking for the "Slim" or "Super Slim" versions will find it.

Speaking of the Alt-Name though, that's another question - how to fill it properly? Alt names include PS2 (common name), PSTwo (codename for slim model), and maybe SCPH-3000x or SCPH-30000 for the regional models - technically incorrect, but some people tend to confuse it (though the very exact model number with a proper region number should be always written on sticker on the console and box, as well as in the version number in PS2 menu).

The number is more relevant for PSP though, as the PSP-1000, PSP-2000 and PSP-3000 are marketted as such in some regions it seems, while the regional numbers are x000 for JP only (x001 for US, x004 for EU etc, just like PS2). PSP-2000 IS (I don't think it's a japanese packaging, found it looking for 2003 box), PSP-2004 CW.

karyann

Re: Hardware naming
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2016, 09:31:34 pm »
What I'm getting at is that shape designations are redundant in a title entry where the model number already exists. There would be no time ever that a single model number could be any of the different shapes the console itself may have.

Whoa sorry, that somehow went completely over my head the first time I read the format. Indeed, it's kind of redundant. I personally think it would be better without, but I won't shut the door completely if other admins want to weigh in.


Speaking of the Alt-Name though, that's another question - how to fill it properly? Alt names include PS2 (common name), PSTwo (codename for slim model), and maybe SCPH-3000x or SCPH-30000 for the regional models - technically incorrect, but some people tend to confuse it (though the very exact model number with a proper region number should be always written on sticker on the console and box, as well as in the version number in PS2 menu).

Usually, alt names would be used to mention codenames or fan names that are used often. I had never heard the term "super slim" for PS2, and googling it only returns PS3 results, so I tend to think this is a fan name. Are there official sources that use "super slim" for PS2? I do know though that "fat" in a fan name, and that "slim" is an official one. Fat should be avoided in titles, while Slim is good.