VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => General => Topic started by: oldgamerz on August 10, 2018, 08:21:25 pm
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I used to use ROM's just like a lot of people, But I stopped a long time ago after I found out a few people were arrested for having them on their computers. now every time I think of ROMS I think of a song that has lyrics of "I broke the law, and the law won" But I am still tempted to get free ROMS but I don't and don't plan to ever again. back in 2013 I had a bunch of ROMS but I deleted all of them just a few years before I got a new PC and I never touched them ever since. But I did have a Free version of the sims 1 ultimate collection since that at that time nor steam or GOG games had the game for sale and amazon was all sold out
It's kinda weird but nowadays there is a lot of downloadable games for PC that you can download for free but most of them are illegal including MS/DOS full version games that are considered abandonware.
I personally don't want to put the law to work on me so I think ROMs are morally wrong and dangerous on your gaming equipment but that is my opinion
I now believe downloaded ROMs a version of stealing and the same with everdrive. But I do own one NES Multicart I bought off Etsy
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Emulation is not morally wrong anyone who tells you so is a shill. That being said I don't really emulate because I prefer playing on the original hardware when possible.
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Emulation is not morally wrong anyone who tells you so is a shill. That being said I don't really emulate because I prefer playing on the original hardware when possible.
I agree Emulation itself is not morally wrong in my opinion. I have many emulated games in the form of compilations for PlayStation 2, emulation is often sold completely legally by official companies. Internet ROM's though I am not as sure about them
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When I was in 9th grade and got my first laptop, I used emulators all of the time with a Logitech USB controller. It was fun for a while but as soon as I could afford the real thing I turned to using real hardware at all times instead.
I'm not morally outraged or anything by it. It's a good way to try games out and play them, especially if they aren't available easily.
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I prefer the original hardware. That said, my PC is loaded with them. They're good for when I want to just play something and don't want to go through the trouble of digging out a system, hookups and controllers.
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I prefer to play games on their original hardware. I don't use ROMs anymore, but what annoys me and makes me want to use ROMs is when I want to play a game that has long been out of circulation and the company that owns it doesn't make it available through Xbox Live, PSN, or whatever.
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I play ROMS on my laptop for convenience a lot of the time. 98% of most pre 5th gen consoles emulate near perfect and it doesn't bother me just to emulate versus loading the cartridge or CD into the actual console.
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I mean I used roms to do stuff like speedrunning Super Mario 64, but generally I try to own the game now that I can afford it versus emulating it.
That being said, I'll show up with a laptop with smash bros melee on my laptop to play w/ friends because i'm not taking a CRT + gamecube with me around.
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I try to own the game now that I can afford it versus emulating it.
That being said if its something like LSD Dream emulator for psx or any other really really expensive game I'll emulate it. I feel no shame in doing that for a game that costs me a kidney.
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I use to emulate a lot years ago. I think it's a totally fine thing to do, not a single issue with it. I've thought about getting everdrive's myself to play games on the old hardware, but I'll more likely just see about building myself a little raspberry pi emulator box to use wherever eventually.
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Emulation of older 16 bit consoles is near perfect to perfect these days, older cd consoles will follow
I don't see why people do not emulate for moral reasons seems pretty stupid if you ask me.
People are not making money on these things anymore not to mention that people who emulate on original consoles will not pay for some eshop copies on alternative consoles. There is no loss there. To be fair allot of people who emulate on PC would most likely still not want to spend a single dime on a cheap download so once again no loss there.
People get arrested for selling roms or maybe downloading some of the very recent movies games wich are still in the money make process wich is pretty tough to do anyways. especially in the early weeks now that's a real risk when doing so.
People are not going to get swatted for using sega genesis, snes, n64 roms ::)
I try to own the game now that I can afford it versus emulating it.
That being said if its something like LSD Dream emulator for psx or any other really really expensive game I'll emulate it. I feel no shame in doing that for a game that costs me a kidney.
That's a very cheap kidney I'd have to say ::)
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I've never used ROMs personally. I'm a bit of a purist in that I think using the original hardware is part & parcel of the experience- you're supposed to fiddle with an NES cart to get it to work, you're supposed to hear the Dreamcast's drive revving up and down, etc.
Having said that, I have zero issues with people using ROMs in 99.9% of their applications. An example: I love The Guardian Legend on NES. I'd like other people to experience playing the game. How does one legally buy the game, so that the original developer gets their share of the money? Answer- they DON'T. There isn't a way to buy that game nowadays- it's not on a compilation, it's not in the NES mini, it's not on Virtual Console, nothing. So- pirate away! No one is losing money here, not even the Ebay resellers with original carts- they cater to a collector market, not a player one.
That's how most games are- they aren't available for purchase in the modern era, and they never will be. People claim that 'oh, but the value goes down on pirated games so they don't make money if they're re-released!' Bull. We buy re-releases all the time. I own 3 bloody versions of Shadow of the Colossus. If the games are good, the re-release will sell. If they aren't, then they're already worthless so who cares? All of this ignores possible fair use transformations, like hacks and translations, that are only possible via ROM.
Now, I do draw the line at one point- if the game IS readily available to be bought, then I don't think getting a ROM is appropriate. Anything in the 3DS virtual console, anything on Steam or GOG, even the games in the NES & SNES minis, should be purchased. "But I don't own or want a 3DS!" Too bad. Console exclusives have always been around. You want to play God of War? You get a PlayStation. You want to play Mighty Bomb Jack? You get a 3DS & download it.
With EmuParadise gone, I doubt it'll ever happen, but man I wish one of these sites would actually make Nintendo or whoever is after them go to court and explain why decades olds software they don't, won't and possibly can't sell, shouldn't be distributed via non-commerical means. I'd hope the court would tell them to put it out there themselves, or let it go.
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People are going to do what they want. And likely you'll never be caught. But personally I stopped after I realized what I was doing was not okay no matter how I tried to justify it. I still have Roms of games I actually own, though.
Downloading Roms is stealing, no matter how you want to spin it. I only feel its okay if you already own and paid for said games and you want a backup, or if its a brand new effort to be distributed by its creator in rom form.
You can say that these companies make millions and they won't miss the money, and that might be true, doesn't change the fact it's still stealing. You may never be caught, just because it's easy doesn't mean it's still not stealing. You may do it in the name of preservation, and that is a good idea, but unless you already own the games it's still taking stuff you didn't pay for. And the argument that they no longer make money off of them is complete B.S. If they didn't then what's Steam, GoG, PS Network, Virtual Console, Nintendo eShop, Xbox Live Arcade, NES/SNES Classic, Atari/Sega Flashback, HD Remasters, and game compilations?
While it is unlikely you'll get caught, it does happen. Guy I personally know got caught by the FCC. Got slapped with a high dollar fine, and his internet provider was ordered to choke his internet access to a trickle.
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I used to use VBA to run a lot of Game Boy games. Some that never came out in America like Pokemon GB2 and Mother 3. But I've also dabbled in a few other GBA games, namely Pokemon official games and ROM hacks like Zircon
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While it is unlikely you'll get caught, it does happen. Guy I personally know got caught by the FCC. Got slapped with a high dollar fine, and his internet provider was ordered to choke his internet access to a trickle.
What did the guy do to get caught?
Did he really get a fine for downloading old games or was it more in the new games or movie department?
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While it is unlikely you'll get caught, it does happen. Guy I personally know got caught by the FCC. Got slapped with a high dollar fine, and his internet provider was ordered to choke his internet access to a trickle.
What did the guy do to get caught?
Did he really get a fine for downloading old games or was it more in the new games or movie department?
He was downloading roms of old cartidge games and ISOs of PS1, Dreamcast, Xbox, etc. Using it for soft-modded original Xboxes.
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While it is unlikely you'll get caught, it does happen. Guy I personally know got caught by the FCC. Got slapped with a high dollar fine, and his internet provider was ordered to choke his internet access to a trickle.
What did the guy do to get caught?
Did he really get a fine for downloading old games or was it more in the new games or movie department?
He was downloading roms of old cartidge games and ISOs of PS1, Dreamcast, Xbox, etc. Using it for soft-modded original Xboxes.
I see but how did they know he did not own those games as originals, If i'm correct it is legal to use and download roms if you have an original physical copy. It's not like they will check it personally or am i wrong?
than again I guess they are way more strict with these kinds of things in th US than in europe. still though it is pretty hard to believe that the guy got caught with only such old roms. He didn't attempt to download anything newer? Hosting etc is also pretty risky.
Otherwise everyone with everdrives or emulators on pc with old games should have faced the consequences allot sooner than later or at least a warning. There is a nice amount of money to be made by the goverment since many people do so it's not that hard to find out especially in the US since the goverment can look at private stuff allot easier than in most other countries.
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I don't know the details, I'm not the one that got caught or did the catching. I assume since he soft-modded and loaded the consoles up for people, he caught more attention.
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I don't know the details, I'm not the one that got caught or did the catching. I assume since he soft-modded and loaded the consoles up for people, he caught more attention.
If I might have a guess he got paid for his services to mod consoles for others probably advertised somewhere online, that could give some attention and since he profits from roms it is allot worse than just using roms for personal usage. If he did it only for friends I highly doubt anyone would have bothered if they would have noticed it.
That's allot worse than just using some old roms if you would like to have my opinion if my assumption is correct that is.
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They're okay, but nothing can compare to playing the game in its proper form on the correct hardware. A rom feels so unsubstantial. There's no joy in having a pack of data on your PC as opposed to the actual game.
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I don't know the details, I'm not the one that got caught or did the catching. I assume since he soft-modded and loaded the consoles up for people, he caught more attention.
If I might have a guess he got paid for his services to mod consoles for others probably advertised somewhere online, that could give some attention and since he profits from roms it is allot worse than just using roms for personal usage. If he did it only for friends I highly doubt anyone would have bothered if they would have noticed it.
That's allot worse than just using some old roms if you would like to have my opinion if my assumption is correct that is.
What probably happened is he attracted their attention committing another crime and they searched his house and found out he was emulating and threw that on top of the other crime, and then maybe he took a plea deal.
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Pretty sure he wasn't a hardened criminal or anything. It was the modding and d/l for people that did it, I'm sure.
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If i'm correct it is legal to use and download roms if you have an original physical copy. It's not like they will check it personally or am i wrong?
In the eyes of the law, the ROMs would only be legal if you ripped them from your own physical copy yourself.
In any case, I used Roms of NES, SNES, and the various Game Boy generations heavily in my middle school and high school years, but stopped after I got a job and could actually buy what I wanted. As for other people using them, I don't really care one way or another, just as long as they are admitting that they're pirating the software and not hiding behind a flimsy justification/excuse. I also find myself detesting those people that interrupt conversations about the (S)NES classics with their beloved RetroPi.
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Pretty sure he wasn't a hardened criminal or anything. It was the modding and d/l for people money that did it, I'm sure.
Fixed it :P
Seriously though, there is a big difference between downloading a few games completely unavailable elsewhere, and selling them hundreds at a time. Profit makes a big difference for how much any law body cares about what you're doing.
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For sure. Was replying specifically to the idea that it was added on to a bigger crime, though.
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I to prefer the original game on original hardware hands down every time. I haven't used emulation in a long time but it is still relevant. Here's a a few points to consider.
Recently on my radar is SmartBall2 or as it would been been called Jerry Ball 2 for the SNES, would have been it it had ever been released. I kinda liked the far simpler prequel and I have memories of renting it from good old blockbuster video. Naturally, I'd like to play the vastly improved squeal (SNES DRUNK recently did a review of this title). The only way to play? The big "E".
Another point to consider is who gets the money. I bought Gradius 3 for SNES recently because I want to own in my physical library. I got it off eBay. Konami didn't get any sales from it. Neither did Nintendo. Just some guy in walla walla washington.
I used to be part of a P2P site that specialized in emulation for everything ten years or older. It was a fantastic community committed to preserving the old school. After a very long time they were taken down and Ive been sad every since. I mentioned SNES Drunk earlier because he always relays info on game availability, like if this $60 dollar used game is (was) available on the old Wii store. I like that, if the publisher in whatever form they still exists in says, "hey we still have a community out there for this," then take my money. If not, do I really have to pay more than original price for a game the publisher will collect nothing on?
At the end of the day I am straight up legal and don't mess around with any of the gray area anymore and its easy for me to be that way because I work all the time. In fact, that's how I got here, building my video game empire....
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Eventually I fear the day when all games physically go out of stock everywhere and the people holding on to collections only sell the crappy games they don't want for an extreme price. I know now this will be a day that will come, if someone don't do anything about not releasing psychical releases. ROM's may be the only affordable option for me in the future, And the police get paid to find criminals. Not only that, but
I knew a man that was arrested with a large fine and 30 days in the city or county jail for Jaywalking. DO NOT underestimate the police. Because some police only get paid to arrest criminals and they do just that. Some police will find the littlest excuse to drag you in too. Or, fine you a ticket that you must pay or you will put into county jail or state prison :-\
PS some police will show mercy but some cities really are cracked down hard most police, are nice but few can be mean, and strict, like in some of the cities around where I live.
you have to be warned with everything you download because the internet is a public place and some ROM may contain illegal attachments that could get you arrested
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Eventually I fear the day when all games physically go out of stock everywhere and the people holding on to collections only sell the crappy games they don't want for an extreme price. I know now this will be a day that will come, if someone don't do anything about not releasing psychical releases. ROM's may be the only affordable option for me in the future, And the police get paid to find criminals. Not only that, but
I knew a man that was arrested with a large fine and 30 days in the city or county jail for Jaywalking. DO NOT underestimate the police. Because some police only get paid to arrest criminals and they do just that. Some police will find the littlest excuse to drag you in too. Or, fine you a ticket that you must pay or you will put into county jail or state prison :-\
PS some police will show mercy but some cities really are cracked down hard most police, are nice but few can be mean, and strict, like in some of the cities around where I live.
you have to be warned with everything you download because the internet is a public place and some ROM may contain illegal attachments that could get you arrested
if your an idiot you could walk up to the police and say you copied a dvd, used r4 ds carts or say that you downloaded some roms. Formally yes than you will be arrested and or will get a large fine
Thing is the police does not check these kinds of things, many people do so even back in the day with far more illegal stuff when games or movies are actually in the money make period
DS with their R4 carts even in the early ds days, downloading dvd roms of new movies copying movies when you hired them once from a block buster. Pretty much everyone did so but it's just impossible to check, only if your an idiot and walk up to the police you will be caught. What about the heavy supply of copied ps1 discs It's crazy how many people used pirated ps1 games super illegal but the police can't invade your house without solid reason so the only people which are caught for using roms are the ones selling copies for a way cheaper price than the original games.
In the end unless your hosting rom sites, lending your services for payment and sell roms there is not much to worry about. The police will not bother since It's not really profitable but by law if they do see it, they will take action wich will not happen since they won't invade your house without reason. There is a reason why pretty much everyone still uses emulators these days, downloading music and movies is also pretty normal except for the new stuff wich can be tricky and risky. Haven's seen any everdrive users being send to jail lol for the simple reason that they won't find out since it is not profitable worth doing so,
if it truly was so dangerous using roms etc there would have been far less people using them, the many copies of dvd's and cd based games that one will find in game lots are proof of how little people gave a damm about the consequences, because there were none if you did so for personal usage. unless you had commited other crimes or made profits it is kinda impossible to check.
using roms of old games is far less harmfull than for example those r4 ds carts. Everyone had them back in the day you had acces to all the ds games you wanted from pretty much the very beginning. obviously selling sites were closed down at some point but as far as users go nobody gave a damm about it. r4 carts have most definitely reduced ds game sales that's for sure. pretty much all my friends had a cart allot of ds owners the selling sites were also pretty big for these things. If the police decides to ever invade everyone's home I'm pretty sure a very solid chunk of the population would be in jail whether it's for games, music or movies probably also many police members ::)
Besides as far as roms go, companies are not going to give us the original experience on the original consoles wich roms can provide thus being different. An eshop download is just a piece of crap in my opinion. if you want the original experience such things won't cut it and you even have to pay for it while you can't play it on the original console thus having a inferior experience compared to something that is free.
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I am not trying be a jerk and no I am not the law. But I used to download anything and everything that involved gaming on a PC. And sometimes I know for a fact even roms can have attachments that are undetectable virus or Trojan Horses. those are usually avoidable by deleting the files that come with the download that have no extension or a strange windows icon that you know from experience that has nothing to do with the free program, or game you just downloaded. and sometimes I pried viruses off windows XP off my PC by changing it's code or/and by renaming it and deleting the file afterward by forcing deleting the unmarked stuck file
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I really couldn't care less about "ethics" in grabbing ISO's and ROM's of games since it has introduced me to a ton of games I wouldn't have played ( and some purchased) due to the amount of cost thrown in ( since stuff like a full blown arcade cabinet could require a ton of money especially for part maintenance like the crt screen, capicators, etc. ).
In addition, the recent Emu paradise debacle have only shown me that a sizable amount of game companies don't care too much about game preservation as a whole, but only care about getting people to rebuy their old popular games again and again ( especially at the expense of other titles that don't even fall under their jurisdiction). Along with the fact that some high-demand games don't have any chance of getting a remake due to lost source code, so i'd rather be able to play it in a emu vs spending $600-700 on the "real thing".
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I really couldn't care less about "ethics" in grabbing ISO's and ROM's of games since it has introduced me to a ton of games I wouldn't have played ( and some purchased) due to the amount of cost thrown in ( since stuff like a full blown arcade cabinet could require a ton of money especially for part maintenance like the crt screen, capicators, etc. ).
In addition, the recent Emu paradise debacle have only shown me that a sizable amount of game companies don't care too much about game preservation as a whole, but only care about getting people to rebuy their old popular games again and again ( especially at the expense of other titles that don't even fall under their jurisdiction). Along with the fact that some high-demand games don't have any chance of getting a remake due to lost source code, so i'd rather be able to play it in a emu vs spending $600-700 on the "real thing".
to be fair back in the ds r4 cart era emuparadise was the most easy source for ds roms for the r4 cart. It is kinda suprising that nintendo did not take any actions as far as that goes, Not to mention that the R4 carts themselves were legal to sell since it was just a piece of hardware. It wasn't up until the end of the ds era that Nintendo managed to bann the sales for those R4 carts eventhough they did not have roms inside them at least in europe that is.
Still quite a shame though that such sites are being taken down. i hope it will not become a trend that roms will be impossible to get. That being said I'm pretty sure a large group of people have the roms stored somewhere if one knows the right connections, will be quite a hassle though.
not to mention as far as other consequences go it might stop people to create perfect roms for cd based consoles wich is yet to be achieved :o
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There’s a ton of stuff you can’t get anywhere else but ROMs.
A few years ago, I got into MAME. It’s hard to have a round of Zoo Keeper without emulation.
I’ll keep playing these legally questionable games. They’re just too expensive to own.
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I'm in the camp that believes if the owner of the intellectually property isn't actively making their product available for purchase, they really shouldn't be too upset if people are downloading the roms. Retro gaming has become mainstream at this point and there is a huge market for old games. There are tons of options for companies that want to revive their old games, like the Nintendo classic consoles or even licensing their games out for legit reproduction carts (like Retro-Bit). If someone wants to make their game available to me and its game I want to play I'll buy it, end of story; but if there's a game I really want to play and its too expensive for me to buy on the secondary market, I'm still gonna play it.
Now modding current consoles to play ripped copies of games that are still on the shelf is clearly pirating and it's something I'm not down with at all.
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Yet current games are the ones that need preservation the most, especially in this era of digital only games that are locked to specific platforms.
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Yet current games are the ones that need preservation the most, especially in this era of digital only games that are locked to specific platforms.
While I agree with you, most current games are still both readily available for sale, and in fact need to be sold so their studios can turn a profit and make more games. We just have to hope that, by the time it's clear they're about ready to abandon them, we can swoop in & get them archived before they're gone. (or some far less scrupulous individual who ripped them day one sees they're in the clear now & brings them out for everyone to grab.)
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Do not confuse preservation with piracy.
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Do not confuse preservation with piracy.
as far as preservation goes are all games for certain 8 - 16 bit consoles preserved?
I can imagine roms of very crappy unknown games being hard to find or maybe not even preserved yet.
It will be impossible to preserve all those download only games since there is plenty of trash out there, who would bother to preserve those games not to mention that even for old game consoles there might be some crappy games out there that do not even have roms.
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Yes, the full 8-bit and 16-bit libraries were made into Rom's many years back. It's not in question.
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Yes, the full 8-bit and 16-bit libraries were made into Rom's many years back. It's not in question.
I think the only question is: As companies seek to take down ROM distributing websites, how many will survive into the future? We could find ourselves in a position where games once preserved are lost as the means to keep them distributed and archived goes away. We all know many of us have relatives who wouldn't know what to keep in the event of our passing. I seem to recall that's how we lost the masters for the black & white anime Amazing Three- the owner's wife threw them away cleaning out after he was gone.
I definitely remember a MJR pickup video where we went to get some old PC games he found on Craigslist, and discovered the owner also had a massive boxed NES collection. Keyword 'had', as she assumed the console stuff was worthless & had been using those games as kindling. In Nerd & Nintendo Central Seattle, someone was burning NES games believing that's all they were worth! What hope do a few hard drives of ROMs have against a clueless family member if proper boxed games can still be treated that way?
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It will just go back to how it used to be. Shady websites you couldn't find through search engines.
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Yes, the full 8-bit and 16-bit libraries were made into Rom's many years back. It's not in question.
I think the only question is: As companies seek to take down ROM distributing websites, how many will survive into the future? We could find ourselves in a position where games once preserved are lost as the means to keep them distributed and archived goes away. We all know many of us have relatives who wouldn't know what to keep in the event of our passing. I seem to recall that's how we lost the masters for the black & white anime Amazing Three- the owner's wife threw them away cleaning out after he was gone.
I definitely remember a MJR pickup video where we went to get some old PC games he found on Craigslist, and discovered the owner also had a massive boxed NES collection. Keyword 'had', as she assumed the console stuff was worthless & had been using those games as kindling. In Nerd & Nintendo Central Seattle, someone was burning NES games believing that's all they were worth! What hope do a few hard drives of ROMs have against a clueless family member if proper boxed games can still be treated that way?
I think it's safe to say that enough gamers have entire consoles worth of game libraries on hard drives, flash drives, phones, etc. in ROM form that we will never fully lose those games.
As was pointed out: I'd be more worried about all those games that are on servers that will be shut down eventually...what will happen to those? The best-selling games will probably be re-released in future generations, but what about those niche titles? Or the ones that weren't marketed well? Or the ones that just weren't very good, but for whatever reason you love anyways?
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Yes, the full 8-bit and 16-bit libraries were made into Rom's many years back. It's not in question.
I think the only question is: As companies seek to take down ROM distributing websites, how many will survive into the future? We could find ourselves in a position where games once preserved are lost as the means to keep them distributed and archived goes away. We all know many of us have relatives who wouldn't know what to keep in the event of our passing. I seem to recall that's how we lost the masters for the black & white anime Amazing Three- the owner's wife threw them away cleaning out after he was gone.
I definitely remember a MJR pickup video where we went to get some old PC games he found on Craigslist, and discovered the owner also had a massive boxed NES collection. Keyword 'had', as she assumed the console stuff was worthless & had been using those games as kindling. In Nerd & Nintendo Central Seattle, someone was burning NES games believing that's all they were worth! What hope do a few hard drives of ROMs have against a clueless family member if proper boxed games can still be treated that way?
I think it's safe to say that enough gamers have entire consoles worth of game libraries on hard drives, flash drives, phones, etc. in ROM form that we will never fully lose those games.
As was pointed out: I'd be more worried about all those games that are on servers that will be shut down eventually...what will happen to those? The best-selling games will probably be re-released in future generations, but what about those niche titles? Or the ones that weren't marketed well? Or the ones that just weren't very good, but for whatever reason you love anyways?
But only very few people will have the unknown games wich are trash even for those 8 and 16 bit libraries.
as far as modern games go certain download only titles will vanish It's plain and simple, old games were physically released so even the crappy games can be found and preserved thanks to full set collectors but as far as download only goes the crappy games might just vanish It's not something that can be found again when servers are gone since no one cares about some titles. in my opinion it might almost be guaranteed that allot of crappy titles will vanish.
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It's not something that can be found again when servers are gone since no one cares about some titles. in my opinion it might almost be guaranteed that allot of crappy titles will vanish.
Just because you do not like it, doesn't mean someone doesn't. Maybe some kid got to play some dumb game when they were a kid on a website, or as a download only game on a console and they loved it. Without any sort of preservation, that kid wouldn't be able to replay that game 10-20 years from now.
This also applies to series collectors and historians/archivers of series. I already know there are at least a dozen Transformers online games that are lost or will be lost. No matter how dumb or crappy the game was/is. It is a part of the history of the series that no one can play, watch, or even really know what it looks like. Same goes for a lot of phone games. There are some people who are active in attempts at asset retrieval, so far I have participated in and seen being done. So far, I am not aware of anyone being able to archive them completely, even in a state where they are playable or not-playable requiring modification.
This activity is in the legal gray area, and falls under the umbrella of piracy for certain. But it is because of the understanding that companies are not interested in retaining this information or releasing it. The instances where even a physical client media was available and the publisher had released server netcode to allow the program to be used after official support has died is extremely low. If you want to make a console comparison, think about SegaNet, Satellaview, and Fujitsu's WorldsAway just to name a few.
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It's not something that can be found again when servers are gone since no one cares about some titles. in my opinion it might almost be guaranteed that allot of crappy titles will vanish.
This also applies to series collectors and historians/archivers of series. I already know there are at least a dozen Transformers online games that are lost or will be lost. No matter how dumb or crappy the game was/is. It is a part of the history of the series that no one can play, watch, or even really know what it looks like. Same goes for a lot of phone games. There are some people who are active in attempts at asset retrieval, so far I have participated in and seen being done. So far, I am not aware of anyone being able to archive them completely, even in a state where they are playable or not-playable requiring modification.
Your confirming my theory . It's impossible to preserve everything especially with download only , I'm pretty sure that allot of games in other online shops not to mention pc are already lost forever. Things that the general public find trash will have a way higher chance of being lost It's just the reality if a games does not have a solid fanbase people who care It's kinda hard to preserve there are very few people who care. With the download only games the chances that 100% of the library will be preserved is pretty much non existant if you would like to have my opinion.
The only reason why the entire snes nes etc libraries have been preserved is due to the simple fact that there are physical copies out there and that the consoles have a huge fanbase. Not that much of a hurry really not to mention plenty of people who are dedicated enough. BTW as far as entire 16 bit libraries go I'm pretty sure there are some games wich are lost wich were in the online servers of nintendo
as far as 16 bit preservation goes I seem to remember that certain download only titles from back in the day have not been retrieved yet.
Sega channel and nintendo channel in the 16 bit era download only, Heck even some kirby games are still lost as far as that goes. They just found a bunch of the kirby mini games last year if i am not mistaken but there are still multiple missing, let alone the crappy games wich are on there wich have yet to be preserved.
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Yes, the full 8-bit and 16-bit libraries were made into Rom's many years back. It's not in question.
I think the only question is: As companies seek to take down ROM distributing websites, how many will survive into the future? We could find ourselves in a position where games once preserved are lost as the means to keep them distributed and archived goes away. We all know many of us have relatives who wouldn't know what to keep in the event of our passing. I seem to recall that's how we lost the masters for the black & white anime Amazing Three- the owner's wife threw them away cleaning out after he was gone.
I definitely remember a MJR pickup video where we went to get some old PC games he found on Craigslist, and discovered the owner also had a massive boxed NES collection. Keyword 'had', as she assumed the console stuff was worthless & had been using those games as kindling. In Nerd & Nintendo Central Seattle, someone was burning NES games believing that's all they were worth! What hope do a few hard drives of ROMs have against a clueless family member if proper boxed games can still be treated that way?
I think it's safe to say that enough gamers have entire consoles worth of game libraries on hard drives, flash drives, phones, etc. in ROM form that we will never fully lose those games.
As was pointed out: I'd be more worried about all those games that are on servers that will be shut down eventually...what will happen to those? The best-selling games will probably be re-released in future generations, but what about those niche titles? Or the ones that weren't marketed well? Or the ones that just weren't very good, but for whatever reason you love anyways?
But only very few people will have the unknown games wich are trash even for those 8 and 16 bit libraries.
Some people that pick and choose will be like that, sure. But plenty of people just download the entire libraries. You can get library packs off of torrent sites and such.
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Yes, the full 8-bit and 16-bit libraries were made into Rom's many years back. It's not in question.
I think the only question is: As companies seek to take down ROM distributing websites, how many will survive into the future? We could find ourselves in a position where games once preserved are lost as the means to keep them distributed and archived goes away. We all know many of us have relatives who wouldn't know what to keep in the event of our passing. I seem to recall that's how we lost the masters for the black & white anime Amazing Three- the owner's wife threw them away cleaning out after he was gone.
I definitely remember a MJR pickup video where we went to get some old PC games he found on Craigslist, and discovered the owner also had a massive boxed NES collection. Keyword 'had', as she assumed the console stuff was worthless & had been using those games as kindling. In Nerd & Nintendo Central Seattle, someone was burning NES games believing that's all they were worth! What hope do a few hard drives of ROMs have against a clueless family member if proper boxed games can still be treated that way?
I think it's safe to say that enough gamers have entire consoles worth of game libraries on hard drives, flash drives, phones, etc. in ROM form that we will never fully lose those games.
As was pointed out: I'd be more worried about all those games that are on servers that will be shut down eventually...what will happen to those? The best-selling games will probably be re-released in future generations, but what about those niche titles? Or the ones that weren't marketed well? Or the ones that just weren't very good, but for whatever reason you love anyways?
But only very few people will have the unknown games wich are trash even for those 8 and 16 bit libraries.
Some people that pick and choose will be like that, sure. But plenty of people just download the entire libraries. You can get library packs off of torrent sites and such.
that doesn't chance the fact that of the online services of back in the day of both nintendo and sega certain titles are still missing of the 16 bit library.
So I guess there isn't a full 16 bit library wich has been preserved there are still missing games out there maybe even from some physical games of the 8 16 bit era ::)
Heck 1,5 years ago a few of those kirby mini games have been found on certain japanese exclusive storage carts for those downloads not to mention that there are still many missing games including quite a few of those kirby mini games.
Nintendo's mascot kirby has a massive fanbase and many dedicated people who want to preserve it yet it hasn't and it seems to be lost some games are still missing unplayable. not everything can be preserved and this was an example with many dedicated people. For download only games especially if the interest is low titles will get lost It's not something that can be prevented.
the snes satelliview and it's kirby games is a nice example of games being lost of a franchise with a huge fanbase and many 16 bit fans wich try their hardest to preserve them.
I find it really hard to believe that all crappy 16 bit games or even 8 bit games are preserved if you would like to have my opinion especially if you would consider that games of popular franchises such as kirby are not even preserved yet. Maybe Nintendo has them somewhere but on the otherhand the missing games might only be left in some of those carts. however considering that the snes settalaview wasn't that proffitable the games might have been trashed by Nintendo anyways since there is no reason for keeping them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qW37Zlh1nyg
It's not all about rainbows and sunshine It's not like everything is available at this very moment or ever will. 16 bit has a huge fanbase and even than things might still be lost forever. Things will vanish It's just how the cookie crumbles. Plenty of download only pc games wich are already lost forever.
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Even the online games are on there. I've played BS Zelda, Golden Axe III, and Mega Man: The Wily Wars. I've played the extra Mario levels. I've played the F-Zero game.
There is seriously no gap or any missing games in the 8-bit and 16-bit libraries. They are all well-preserved YEARS AGO. Even homebrew games and unofficial ROM hacks.
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Even the online games are on there. I've played BS Zelda, Golden Axe III, and Mega Man: The Wily Wars. I've played the extra Mario levels. I've played the F-Zero game.
There is seriously no gap or any missing games in the 8-bit and 16-bit libraries. They are all well-preserved YEARS AGO. Even homebrew games and unofficial ROM hacks.
and yet only 7 of the 10 kirby games of the satteliview are preserved I'm pretty sure some other games on the sattelview of less popular franchises are still missing.
not to mention that golden axe III and wily wars were also physical released in japan. also do you really think those were the only games ever released on those online services?
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Okay, you're right. Some random, online-only, Japanese-only Satellaview game was not preserved. There is a tiny fraction of the library that got found...I hadn't even heard of that.
But I guaran-damn-tee you that every single officially released cartridge on officially released cartridge consoles are preserved.
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Okay, you're right. Some random, online-only, Japanese-only Satellaview game was not preserved. There is a tiny fraction of the library that got found...I hadn't even heard of that.
But I guaran-damn-tee you that every single officially released cartridge on officially released cartridge consoles are preserved.
as far as 8 and 16 bit goes in physical form most likely but not a 100% guarantee.
If you would include systems such as the atari 2600 I don't think so.
Some games were made in sombody's garage in wich only few to 10 copies existed thus being crazy expensiv if they did survive and eventually pop up on the market. some birthday game gamma tank attack etc etc as some examples of games in wich there are only few copies of wich are known to exist.
I'm pretty sure some of those rarity games on the atari 2600 have been destroyed and never really had a chance to be played or preserved. Such games have not even been or can never be discovered anymore.
there is a reason why getting a complete atari 2600 set is pretty much impossible.