General and Gaming => Classic Video Games => Topic started by: fauxshot on January 20, 2015, 03:14:20 am
Title: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: fauxshot on January 20, 2015, 03:14:20 am
Even though I hardly ever seem to buy new (old) consoles nowadays (as I'm trying to work on my game library instead of my console hoard xP ), I've been watching some of LGR's videos on YouTube. So, I'm just curious, what is the best PC machine (or whatever technical term should be used) to begin collecting for?
When I say best, I'm considering the following factors:
1. Price for the machine 2. Average game prices 3. Other initial investments/upgrades required (memory upgrade, etc.) 4. User-friendliness (learning how to operate the machine, ability to upgrade if/when necessary, etc.)
As always, I'm sure that this isn't something I'll immediately begin doing, but this information is always handy to have. xD I also understand that there are factors, such as game genres and such, that can determine what machines are best for an individual. However, I'm just looking for a general answer based on the above criteria.
Also, any suggested places of where to purchase (Ebay is the obvious one) would also be appreciated. Suggested games are also welcome, as are any suggestions in general, really. :D
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: koemo1 on January 20, 2015, 04:32:28 am
If you want to play commodore and ZX spectrum and you dont live in Europe I'm afraid you have to import many of the awesome titles. Don't forget you might have to import the PC itself which has lots of shipping costs. Collecting for the Amiga might be a little easier in the US. C64 does have a TON of games, well over ten thousand titles which makes it well worth it! Games like Contra, Castlevania, Pirates!, Wasteland, Turican II, Ultima series and Last Ninja are some of the amazing games they could pull of on that good old C64!
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: maikaal on January 20, 2015, 06:57:33 am
Intel i5-4570 Geforce 650ti 8 gig ram
basically my PC :P
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: bikingjahuty on January 20, 2015, 09:32:11 am
LOL I was just thinking last night that I'd like to start collecting old PC games. Not as old as you're talking about, but ones released between the late 80s to early 2000s. I have enough fond memories of PC during this time to justify starting this collecting. I just need to build a machine that can run these old games :p
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: koemo1 on January 20, 2015, 10:25:17 am
Oooh well my knowledge doesnt stretch that far xd
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: foxhack on January 20, 2015, 01:56:53 pm
Build your own machine from older parts and go from there.
I really wouldn't suggest going for any of the European PC systems... unless you're actually European. Voltage and TV signal converters, shipping costs, and the like add up VERY QUICKLY.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 20, 2015, 02:00:53 pm
If you can find one locally, Commodore 64. It was the Rolls-Royce of early-to-mid 80s gaming machines. Best graphics for the time and soooo many games released on it. It's also cheap as all hell to collect for because it was so incredibly easy to copy games/programs for the C64. Released mostly on floppy disks, but there were also cassette tape releases (I never had a cassette drive, and I never missed it, though.)
The biggest downside is if you can't find one locally. Because these machines and their power bricks are HEAVY. The shipping cost will kill you.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: bloodybaron on January 20, 2015, 02:34:14 pm
If you're looking for pc games from late 80's and up you don't need an older system for most of them. Between dos box and windows having an option to install with an older version when you load the game you can finagle I'd say at least 90% to work without much difficulty. I don't know much about the legit old stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised if within the next few years they come out with more stuff like dosbox to play commodore, apple, or whatever you want on newer computers
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: fauxshot on January 20, 2015, 03:55:51 pm
Thanks everyone!
I think I'd mostly be interested in older games (floppy disks and such), if I do ever go down that collecting road. I grew up with consoles/handhelds, so I haven't traditionally been interested in PCs, but with how cheap the games are, I thought it might be fun to try collecting.
It seems like the Commodore is pretty popular, so I will keep that in mind. Imports wouldn't be a problem. Though it does seem that obtaining a machine would be.
I'll probably ask my Professor here at college to keep an ear out for anyone selling old tech. He's a computer guy, so it's possible He might know some people who are willing to sell old machines (or might even want to sell one of his old ones).
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: foxhack on January 20, 2015, 06:54:02 pm
I don't know much about the legit old stuff, but I wouldn't be surprised if within the next few years they come out with more stuff like dosbox to play commodore, apple, or whatever you want on newer computers
They already exist... sorta.
Commodore has Amiga Forever, which is a legal commercial emulator released by the Commodore / Amiga rightsholders that includes all the necessary files to run games. It also includes a LOT of games in the package.
Apple... well there's some system emulators that emulate the entire system but the programs are not very user friendly, and actually playing anything that isn't on CD is a complete pain. (Apple floppies aren't always compatible with standard floppy drives, and CDs use a different file system so they're not easily rippable on a Windows machine.) Plus the programs don't always work on modern operating systems because they're open source and the releases are old and have not been updated due to lack of time by the devs. What I played on my old machine was great, but it's just a pain for a newbie.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: argyle on January 20, 2015, 10:58:31 pm
You should also keep in mind that those old 5 1/4 floppies weren't the most reliable things even when new, and now after 30 years or so you'll be running the risk of game disks being corrupted (unreadable).
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: asmodean on January 24, 2015, 02:37:32 am
You should also keep in mind that those old 5 1/4 floppies weren't the most reliable things even when new, and now after 30 years or so you'll be running the risk of game disks being corrupted (unreadable).
I would actually have to disagree here. I have a couple of hundred 5 1/4 floppies. Some from the 80s, some newer. What is remarkable about them is that they actually seem to be better in terms of reliability when compared to later formats like the 3,5" floppy disks. I rarely encounter any disk read errors.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: Jakandsig on January 24, 2015, 11:37:05 am
What is a classic PC? Are we talking just PC before the 90's? Or do you mean computers in general and not just PC's? If the latter Atari 8-bit.
Looking at the rest of the thread, looks like people forgot PC was not what computers were called if not by IBM or using their components back in the day, actually, wasn't even that long ago. (of course, MAC is really the only non-pc left, along with Chrome Books.)
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 24, 2015, 12:37:13 pm
You should also keep in mind that those old 5 1/4 floppies weren't the most reliable things even when new, and now after 30 years or so you'll be running the risk of game disks being corrupted (unreadable).
I would actually have to disagree here. I have a couple of hundred 5 1/4 floppies. Some from the 80s, some newer. What is remarkable about them is that they actually seem to be better in terms of reliability when compared to later formats like the 3,5" floppy disks. I rarely encounter any disk read errors.
While I don't have as many floppies as you, I agree. None of mine ever had errors, either. Even ones I had re-written 20 times over.
You just have to keep them away from magnets.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 26, 2015, 08:05:20 am
What is a classic PC? Are we talking just PC before the 90's? Or do you mean computers in general and not just PC's? If the latter Atari 8-bit.
Looking at the rest of the thread, looks like people forgot PC was not what computers were called if not by IBM or using their components back in the day, actually, wasn't even that long ago. (of course, MAC is really the only non-pc left, along with Chrome Books.)
I'm confused as to the intention also. From the 1st post i assumed he meant 80's/90's Home Computers (C64, CPC, Amiga etc), but others are responding with descriptions of what used to be known as IBM/PC Compatible's.
Some clarification is due methinks.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 26, 2015, 10:58:00 am
What is a classic PC? Are we talking just PC before the 90's? Or do you mean computers in general and not just PC's? If the latter Atari 8-bit.
Looking at the rest of the thread, looks like people forgot PC was not what computers were called if not by IBM or using their components back in the day, actually, wasn't even that long ago. (of course, MAC is really the only non-pc left, along with Chrome Books.)
That clarification actually came later when IBM started being seen in the home market. Back in the day, when most home PCs were not IBM, because IBM was still targeting the business market only, computers like the TRS-80 and the Apple II were indeed marketed as PCs. Watch an old Apple II commercial on YouTube, they use the words "personal computer".
At first it was just a general term that referred to computers you could have in your home, "personal computers". This was due to the fact that when home computers were still new, much of the public thought of computers as these huge beasts of machines that only universities and the government had access to.
As for which the original poster meant, I don't know. But he seems to be happy with our responses, so I think we covered it pretty well.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: Jakandsig on January 26, 2015, 11:07:07 am
That's actually not true at all, IBM pc's were the only ones to use the abbreviation of PC back then. And while some did use personal computer as a tag, others did not, and one of the main separating factors was the lack of using IBM PC's on a TV if not mistaken.
PC as the two letter abbrev was IBM's calling card, not only that, but there were computers like Atari 8-bit which were clearly aiming for the consumer market, Computers weren't mainstream as they were in the 90's, but this belief that computers were only for businesses is actually inaccurate, even in the U.S.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 26, 2015, 11:18:34 am
Never said it wasn't available to the public, just said that a lot of people thought that way.
Here's an example right here, one of those Apple II commercials I mentioned. They CONSTANTLY marketed the Apple II, TRS-80, and C64 as a personal computer, it was a buzzword of the early 80s:
And here's even a promo video named "The Most Personal Computer" about the Apple II:
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 26, 2015, 12:45:59 pm
Regardless, the terminology "PC" has since only been used in conjunction with the previously-titled IBM Compatibles. It is a confusing definition indeed.
A parallel to draw (as an example) would be if Nintendo referred to the SNES as a "HGC" (Home Games Console). While all the other TV-consoles are HGC's, only one of them is actually an HGC (in the case of this theroetical example, the SNES), because Genesis and Atari games won't work in SNES's, even though effectively they're all HGC's anyway. If you can wrap your head around that, then you can see why despite ideas to the contrary, there is actually only 1 PC; the aforementioned IBM Compatible and its successors (Made by HP, Acer, Asus, Dell etc).
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 26, 2015, 12:50:42 pm
It was probably about the time that Windows became popular that PC started referring to IBM computers only. After that, PC tended to refer to Window-compatible systems.
Back in the days of the Apple II and C64, there was another term; "IBM Compatible", which referred to IBM only programs.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: fauxshot on January 26, 2015, 09:00:58 pm
What is a classic PC? Are we talking just PC before the 90's? Or do you mean computers in general and not just PC's? If the latter Atari 8-bit.
Looking at the rest of the thread, looks like people forgot PC was not what computers were called if not by IBM or using their components back in the day, actually, wasn't even that long ago. (of course, MAC is really the only non-pc left, along with Chrome Books.)
I'm confused as to the intention also. From the 1st post i assumed he meant 80's/90's Home Computers (C64, CPC, Amiga etc), but others are responding with descriptions of what used to be known as IBM/PC Compatible's.
Some clarification is due methinks.
To clarify, as you mentioned, the C64, Amiga, and other machines that are pre-CD-DVD format. Sorry, I didn't mean PCs as we know them today. Looking into things that have a little more dust and yellow to them. xD
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 27, 2015, 07:28:57 am
In which case you can't really go wrong with an Amiga, unless you're looking for something even older. I'm a little biased in that regard as i'm firmly in the CPC camp, however modern Java emulation is now spot-on and you can play all the games on a modern PC. It's worth keeping in mind that the Sinclair Spectrum is in the midst of a revival thanks to its recent Kickstarter campaign, which leaves the C64, Acorn/BBC Micro, and um... Were there any others??
You have to remember that the base versions of each system (Not incl. Amiga or Atari ST) used cassette tape games which could take anything between 10 and 40mins to load, so if you are going to go that way try to get one that includes a disk drive. -
Classic CPC 464/6128 games: Turbo Esprit, Rainbow Islands, Exolon, Supercars, Oh Mummy, Chuckie Egg, Laserwarp, Cauldron 2, Afterburner, Get Dexter, Chase HQ, Codename Mat, Tau Ceti, Tomahawk, Total Eclipse, Gauntlet, Lotus Esprit Turbo Challenge, Rick Dangerous 2....
There are actually tons of great games on the system now that i think about it, but those load times; :o
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: fazerco on January 27, 2015, 10:19:50 am
And which Amiga do you suggest? 500, 500+, 600, 1000, etc. There are a few, and games weren't that competable.
I still have my Amiga 500 :D
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 27, 2015, 10:34:45 am
And which Amiga do you suggest? 500, 500+, 600, 1000, etc. There are a few, and games weren't that competable.
I still have my Amiga 500 :D
From the brief bit of research i just did, an Amiga 500+ is the one to have. There was mention of a crack that made the 500+ think it was a regular 500 in order to play older titles. But if the one you have plays Turrican 2, Supercars 2, Golden Axe, Sensible Soccer, Project X, Silkworm and The Spy Who Loved Me; then you've already got the best option. :D
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: fazerco on January 27, 2015, 12:55:45 pm
Aslong as you have the the extra 512 kb ??? to play all games on the 500, you are good.
But the Amiga was way ahead of its time back then.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?... DOS or early windows
Post by: htimreimer on January 28, 2015, 12:07:19 am
as a PC collector my self, i recommend going for DOS or early windows (3.1,95,98), it is highly documented making it easy to learn and software/OS issue relatively easy to fix, the parts are easy to fined and the games are for the most part cheap.
the problem with going for something like the C64,amiga or the apple computers is that there not as well documented as DOS or early windows, there's a high likelihood of compatibility issues especially with amiga and apple do to the amount of models available and it a lot harder to find part for them, overall i recommend starting with DOS or early windows and work your way up to systems like the amiga once you learn the ropes on how to deal with finicky nature of these things
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?... DOS or early windows
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 28, 2015, 12:59:32 pm
as a PC collector my self, i recommend going for DOS or early windows (3.1,95,98), it is highly documented making it easy to learn and software/OS issue relatively easy to fix, the parts are easy to fined and the games are for the most part cheap.
the problem with going for something like the C64,amiga or the apple computers is that there not as well documented as DOS or early windows, there's a high likelihood of compatibility issues especially with amiga and apple do to the amount of models available and it a lot harder to find part for them, overall i recommend starting with DOS or early windows and work your way up to systems like the amiga once you learn the ropes on how to deal with finicky nature of these things
That's like telling someone to learn to play the Tuba because it'll make it easier for them to learn Drums in the future. It doesn't matter what old Home Computer one goes for, if they're willing to learn the language to understand it then it won't help in the slightest to waste time with DOS first.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: Jakandsig on January 30, 2015, 11:45:06 am
It was probably about the time that Windows became popular that PC started referring to IBM computers only. After that, PC tended to refer to Window-compatible systems.
Back in the days of the Apple II and C64, there was another term; "IBM Compatible", which referred to IBM only programs.
Which is not true, the full name and the abrrev are too different things there are ads back then that say "Is Apple II better than PC" or "Will Atari kill PC" Or "Atari will try to make a PC clone to see how the market responds.)
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: Jakandsig on January 30, 2015, 11:45:50 am
Regardless, the terminology "PC" has since only been used in conjunction with the previously-titled IBM Compatibles. It is a confusing definition indeed.
A parallel to draw (as an example) would be if Nintendo referred to the SNES as a "HGC" (Home Games Console). While all the other TV-consoles are HGC's, only one of them is actually an HGC (in the case of this theroetical example, the SNES), because Genesis and Atari games won't work in SNES's, even though effectively they're all HGC's anyway. If you can wrap your head around that, then you can see why despite ideas to the contrary, there is actually only 1 PC; the aforementioned IBM Compatible and its successors (Made by HP, Acer, Asus, Dell etc).
Speaking of Acer didn't they say they would soon move all on Chrome Book in retail outside of certain online vendors?
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 30, 2015, 12:28:48 pm
It was probably about the time that Windows became popular that PC started referring to IBM computers only. After that, PC tended to refer to Window-compatible systems.
Back in the days of the Apple II and C64, there was another term; "IBM Compatible", which referred to IBM only programs.
Which is not true, the full name and the abrrev are too different things there are ads back then that say "Is Apple II better than PC" or "Will Atari kill PC" Or "Atari will try to make a PC clone to see how the market responds.)
I already showed you proof from actual Apple II ads calling themselves PCs. And here's the TRS-80 one I was thinking of when I mentioned the TRS-80, starring Hulk himself in the ad:
It's like PS1 & PS2. When there was only a PS1, people didn't call it a PS1. That came later to help differentiate between the 2 systems. Same as people didn't differentiate IBM/Windows PCs as the only thing called PC until later. Back then, they were all called PCs. It was a buzzword they used to try and get wary people to accept computers in their homes. You've got to remember, back then computers weren't like they are now, not everyone had a computer in their home. Not even half of the nation had computers in their home.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 30, 2015, 04:53:32 pm
It was probably about the time that Windows became popular that PC started referring to IBM computers only. After that, PC tended to refer to Window-compatible systems.
Back in the days of the Apple II and C64, there was another term; "IBM Compatible", which referred to IBM only programs.
Which is not true, the full name and the abrrev are too different things there are ads back then that say "Is Apple II better than PC" or "Will Atari kill PC" Or "Atari will try to make a PC clone to see how the market responds.)
I already showed you proof from actual Apple II ads calling themselves PCs. And here's the TRS-80 one I was thinking of when I mentioned the TRS-80, starring Hulk himself in the ad:
Same as people didn't differentiate IBM/Windows PCs as the only thing called PC until later. Back then, they were all called PCs. It was a buzzword they used to try and get wary people to accept computers in their homes. You've got to remember, back then computers weren't like they are now, not everyone had a computer in their home. Not even half of the nation had computers in their home.
Yeah but, what the manufacturers call things and what the consumers call things are sometimes totally different. Say i grew my own Oranges and sold you a bag for $1 and told you they were Machetes. Would you offer your partner a Machete or an Orange?
PC's have always been the IBM Compatibles for those of us who had one. Apple's were Apple's and Atari's were Atari's. There was a transition from calling them IBM Compatibles to PC Compatibles to simply PC's. But Apple's did not come under the PC Compatible umbrella because they weren't. If Nintendo marketed the upgraded 3DS as an Air Hockey Table, would you be having a similar discussion in 30 years time telling people that the 3DS was a classic Air Hockey Table?
PS I don't know what planet you're from, but on mine IBM's/PC's were popular in homes in the late 80's.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 30, 2015, 04:59:33 pm
We're talking about Apple IIs, TRS-80s, and C64s. That wasn't the late 80s, that was the early 80s.
Even then, the average American still didn't have a PC in their home in the late 80s. It was more business people, people with a nice income, schools, and the PC gamers. It was definitely more popular than it was in the early 80s, but still not close to what it became when the internet became easily accessible.
You guys should check out a book called "The Illustrated History of Electronic Gaming". Fantastic book that goes into great detail about a lot of this stuff. I can't recommend it enough. Such an entertaining read and so chock full of information about this particular time in PC gaming (and a lot of other stuff).
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 31, 2015, 03:15:29 am
WTG in "offering solution" over admitting you're wrong.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 31, 2015, 02:12:57 pm
I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore:
Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one".
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on January 31, 2015, 07:02:24 pm
I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore:
Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one".
I covered that a few posts back with the definitions of IBM/Compatibles and Apples. You read that right? Oh. Of course.
I accept you're the go-to guy for Nintendo games and consoles, but one would be better off talking to a muppet without a hand up it's bum for PC knowledge. You said so yourself you didn't have a PC and neither did anyone in your shantytown, so how could you possibly know what the differences between IBM/Compatibles/Apple amongst users were in the day?
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: sin2beta on January 31, 2015, 07:04:24 pm
I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore:
Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one".
While this is true, you can also find ads that directly link the term "pc" to a specific type of computer. The "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" commercials illustrate this. Apple was not positioning it's Mac line to the umbrella term that all computers (even the mac) are under. They were comparing themselves to Windows. Now there are reasons for this terms history.
The term "personal computer" dates back well before the era this thread relates to. Wikipedia lists the term as dating back to 1963. In this case, the term is really more a small computer for the home than a brand. Then as the personal computer became a reality, different names popped up. Commodore 64, Amiga, Apple ii,ZX Spectrum, TRS 80, Atari 800, etc. I tend to call these types of machines Microcomputers.But they were also certainly personal computers.
People would say I have an Apple, C64, MSX, or a trash 80. In a few cases, people may even say that they had a wang. :P Despite the brand, people rarely said I had a personal computer or pc. That was too generic and non-descriptive.
Now enter IBM, with all of its non-creativity. They named their computer the PC 5150, The PC XT, or the PCJr. Generally, you would not say I have an IBM (not descriptive enough) you also wouldn't say 5150. PC denoted enough.
Then DOS became Windows, etc etc. and now PC means Windows. But it is directly due to IBM being a creativeless group in terms of marketing. Even Linux machines are not usually called PCs in popular vernacular. Usually Linux Box or something of the like is used. It's an interesting history. But PC did come to mean IBM (early/mid 80s) -> DOS/IBM compatible (late 80s) -> Windows (early 90s).
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on January 31, 2015, 08:03:25 pm
I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore:
Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one".
I covered that a few posts back with the definitions of IBM/Compatibles and Apples. You read that right? Oh. Of course.
I accept you're the go-to guy for Nintendo games and consoles, but one would be better off talking to a muppet without a hand up it's bum for PC knowledge. You said so yourself you didn't have a PC and neither did anyone in your shantytown, so how could you possibly know what the differences between IBM/Compatibles/Apple amongst users were in the day?
1. I never said I didn't have a PC. I said the average American didn't back then. I had a C64 until we got a Windows machine.
2. I never once specified "amongst users" nor did I specify any group. jakandsig said that no one called non-IBM computers PCs. I pointed out that sure they did back then all the time in ads and that it was a buzzword back then (hence showing the ads).
3. Yeah, I read your post, then I showed you ads where those very companies used the word PC or personal computer. Personally, I'm taking the actual ads as evidence over joe-schmoe on a message board telling me his word is somehow evidence otherwise.
4. Before you go getting all pissy and start getting mouthy with me, try to keep up with what's going on or at least try to have a discussion like an adult.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on February 01, 2015, 10:20:59 am
I've shown video evidence from more than one company. Now watch this ad from Commodore:
Yet "no one" called anything other than IBM PCs back then, huh? I guess Apple, Commodore, and Radio Shack are "no one".
I covered that a few posts back with the definitions of IBM/Compatibles and Apples. You read that right? Oh. Of course.
I accept you're the go-to guy for Nintendo games and consoles, but one would be better off talking to a muppet without a hand up it's bum for PC knowledge. You said so yourself you didn't have a PC and neither did anyone in your shantytown, so how could you possibly know what the differences between IBM/Compatibles/Apple amongst users were in the day?
1. I never said I didn't have a PC. I said the average American didn't back then. I had a C64 until we got a Windows machine.
2. I never once specified "amongst users" nor did I specify any group. jakandsig said that no one called non-IBM computers PCs. I pointed out that sure they did back then all the time in ads and that it was a buzzword back then (hence showing the ads).
3. Yeah, I read your post, then I showed you ads where those very companies used the word PC or personal computer. Personally, I'm taking the actual ads as evidence over joe-schmoe on a message board telling me his word is somehow evidence otherwise.
4. Before you go getting all pissy and start getting mouthy with me, try to keep up with what's going on or at least try to have a discussion like an adult.
Who's getting pissy?! You're the one posting nonsense and refusing to back down even though more and more people are joining the joyful discussion to tell you how utterly clueless you are on this subject. ;)
It doesn't matter what people said in adverts, there was only one PC and that was the IBM/Compatible. Simply because Apples were Apples (Or "Mac's" to people who had one), C64's were C64's (or Home Computers in other territories), CPC's were Home Computers, Spectrum's were Home Computers.
Just because a computer/games system has a keyboard doesn't make it a PC, no matter what the marketer's say. Or are you really that gullible that you take everything said in adverts as unfiltered reality?
If Nintendo made a qwerty keyboard for the WiiU, would that then be a PC if Satoru Iwata said it was in a TV campaign?
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on February 01, 2015, 03:10:31 pm
Posting nonsense? I've posted evidence more than once now...where is yours other than you say so? A single piece of evidence to counter-act mine?
And your argument seems to keep changing. The discussion originally was that no one called them PCs. Which I then countered with sure they do, they used it in marketing all the time. Then after I showed some ads proving that. The argument morphed into "users" don't say that and I'm not a user so how would I have a clue? (even though I had a C64 and a windows PC.) Now the argument is that I'm taking adverts as unfiltered reality and I'm gullible to believe it.
I've never once backed down from my argument that they were indeed referred to as PCs for a time, and I still don't. I know that PCs are Windows-systems nowadays. But the fact still stands that non-IBMs were referred to as PCs for a time. Maybe not by you and your friends, but my evidence is irrefutable that it was referred to as such. And it's not just one commercial or even one company's commercial, but multiple ones.
I don't know if you were referring to Sin2Beta's post when you mentioned others joining in, but he's pretty much saying what I was saying but you keep trying to twist into other things:
Quote
The term "personal computer" dates back well before the era this thread relates to. Wikipedia lists the term as dating back to 1963. In this case, the term is really more a small computer for the home than a brand. Then as the personal computer became a reality, different names popped up. Commodore 64, Amiga, Apple ii,ZX Spectrum, TRS 80, Atari 800, etc. I tend to call these types of machines Microcomputers. But they were also certainly personal computers.
But since you believe your own word over the likes of Commodore, Apple, and Radio Shack here's some more evidence that I'm sure you'll somehow refute as me talking out my ass or somehow just being too gullible to believe:
Or how about the Amstrad CPC? I don't even need to post a link for that one, do I? It's in the name for crying out loud!
But you seem to be stuck on the fact that you and your group of computer friends didn't call them PCs, therefore none of the rest of it counts. And that marketing terms, somehow don't count (despite the fact that they're the ones that made the machines).
PC gaming may not be my first forte, but I'm VERY interested in the history of gaming and have a shelf full of books on the subject.
Or does Apple, Commodore, Radio Shack, Amstrad, and Wikipedia still count as "no one"? The term has evolved with home computers to mean what it means today. I mean come on man! How much evidence do you need to concede that others did call them PCs back then?! Now, please show me some evidence otherwise.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: davifus on February 01, 2015, 05:24:09 pm
Im not versed, known, approximately close, beside, within, anywhere near the knowledge on oldcomputers, but its getting a little out of hand here. Im just saying but there is a lot of hostility here. (http://m.quickmeme.com/img/4f/4f79d3dc287842c686b7cb21c74eb24bb22afb19528664ca8213163ae7b179ed.jpg)
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on February 02, 2015, 07:27:02 am
Im not versed, known, approximately close, beside, within, anywhere near the knowledge on oldcomputers, but its getting a little out of hand here. Im just saying but there is a lot of hostility here. (http://m.quickmeme.com/img/4f/4f79d3dc287842c686b7cb21c74eb24bb22afb19528664ca8213163ae7b179ed.jpg)
Not at all. ;D It's always fun watching people make utter fools of themselves. Haven't laughed this much since that Will Ferrell + cheerleader vid.
PC gaming may not be my first forte, but I'm VERY interested in the history of gaming and have a shelf full of books on the subject.
You weren't actually active during this period of gaming then, so this "qualified opinion" of yours is just based on hearsay. The rest of us know that you can read-up on anything through thousands of books, but you don't get to call yourself an expert if you haven't used any of the items in question during the period. It's like being a Mac-addict and reading through the "Junior Guide to Microsoft" and then applying for work in Windows Tech-help. Clueless doesn't even begin to cover it.
And your argument seems to keep changing. The discussion originally was that no one called them PCs. Which I then countered with sure they do, they used it in marketing all the time.
I've never once backed down from my argument that they were indeed referred to as PCs for a time, and I still don't. I know that PCs are Windows-systems nowadays. But the fact still stands that non-IBMs were referred to as PCs for a time.
Except they weren't. There was always the IBM/PC Compatibles, and the others known by name. IBM had a range of PC-entitled computers and surprise, surprise that's where the expression "PC Compatibles" comes from. Even if guest Commodore activist Turnip McTurgeltoo said the C64 was a "Personal Computer", good for him. It was not a PC, or PC Compatible and even Commodore customer care would never say it was (Though in this particular instance, i can only surmise as i don't have direct experience of Commodore Customer Care - See what i did there? I admitted i had no actual hands-on experience of something. You should try it sometime). I'm sure if i looked hard enough i could find some official Commodore documents to reflect this, or some advert on youtube that shows a big-haired brunette with bright red lipstick using a headset the size of a satellite; but i don't have as much free time as most.
But since you believe your own word over the likes of Commodore, Apple, and Radio Shack here's some more evidence... Or how about the Amstrad CPC? I don't even need to post a link for that one, do I? It's in the name for crying out loud!
Except no one called it a PC - Which is the whole point of this discussion. Funnily enough the CPC was known as a Micro Computer (again i have ACTUAL EXPERIENCE of this). Here, as you like adverts so much:
There is actually huge diversity in the world and just because something is popular in your tiny bubble doesn't actually mean it's the norm. You have great difficulty grasping this concept. Prior to using the internet i'd never heard of Radio Shack and neither had anyone outside of your country. I know this sounds strange to you but there are actually a whole range of electrical stores, systems, names and identifications outside of whatever zit of existence you reside in.
This appears to have turned into a Q3 vs UT style discussion. Though the difference here would be that you haven't actually played either game but reckon Q3 is better just because Stephen Hawking said it was once on NBS Kids.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: sin2beta on February 02, 2015, 10:15:38 am
Q3 is better just because Stephen Hawking said it was once on NBS Kids.
I SO wish this actually did happen. Stephen Hawking is the f&#*ing quake master.
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: burningdoom on February 02, 2015, 11:48:11 am
So the only evidence you post to counter-act mine is in French...okay then, because we all obviously speak French here.
I give up. Despite the overwhelming evidence I've posted to show otherwise between videos and Wikipedia, your best argument is that I have no clue what I'm talking about because I wasn't there...except I was. I already told you I had a C64. I don't know what to say anymore if actual video and documented Wikipedia evidence shows you that they were pushed as PCs in the early days. You're right, and I'm wrong. None one ever called them PCs, despite the commercials saying them right there for us to see (of course the English language would consider the people in those commercials and the people that wrote the Wikipedia articles as "someone" rather than "no one"). ::)
Title: Re: Best 'classic' PC to begin collecting for?...
Post by: BarbaricAvatar on February 02, 2015, 04:17:55 pm