VGCollect Forum
VGCollect Site Stuff => Site Feedback => Topic started by: scott on March 17, 2011, 12:14:38 am
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I've been making notes and I think, since we are looking to make the listings as accurate as possible. We should at least list a genre and sub-genre in each listing.
This would allow us to list games like:
Action/ Adventure
Sports/ Boxing
Sports/ Baseball
Racing/ Stock Car Racing
Racing/ Off Road
Shooter/ First-Person
Shooter/ Light Gun
Puzzle/ Falling Block
Puzzle/ Brain Teaser
Etc etc.
It could be a lot more work populating the lists. And agreeing on what goes where. But since we are shooting for accuracy, why not? Thoughts?
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I'd like to start putting some work into this. We need to define out all of the proper cats/sub-cats.
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Agreed. It'll add more depth to the database, and when you get the advanced search up and running, then people can search by sub-genre.
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Yes. Let's work on this when we meet up tonight.
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Here is a link to the current list of genres/sub-genres. Please read it over and offer up any suggestions. I'd love to have this in place by the weekend.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am9xDHaT_ggLdFVtVnVwSWhPcGVscVJpZE1VSG5LSGc&hl=en&authkey=CO294-EC
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I forgot to add boxing to the sports subs when I made that list... whoopsie.
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What about Arcade/Compilation or something similar for games such as Midway's Arcade Treasues and Atari Anniversary Edition. these types of games have different genres and sub-genres.
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Compilation and Arcade are both listed separately near the bottom.
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Prolly should add Pachinko to Arcade. I'm not sure what else we should list under the Arcade genre though.
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Would light gun games be considered a first person shooter, or should they get their own category?
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hmm I thought I had Light Gun listed? Prolly should go under the Shoot 'em Up genre as a sub genre. Or possibly under Shooter as a sub-genre. Thoughts?
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How about an art category for games like Mario Paint and those new Wii games for that tablet thingy?
I didn't even look in the Shoot em Up category, I figured it belonged in Shooters. That's where I would put it anyway.
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Action could use a Run 'n' Gun subcategory
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@Tpugmire added Art games to the Other category for the time being.
@informationator added Run 'n Gun to Action games... totally over looked it.
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I think we need a Strategy RPG/Tactical RPG category for quite a number of japanese games, or should it be a sub-category instead?
examples of such games will be the Disgaea series, Final Fantasy Tactics, Valkyria Chronicles etc..
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@escalein Added Strategy/ Tactics to the RPG sub-genres. Hopefully we can get this feature rolling soon.
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Looking forward to this feature! I've been having difficulties lately when adding titles like Chocobo Tales (card game/platformer/minigames/RPG) or Catherine (puzzle/survival horror/adventure).
Will we just be limited to one genre then a related sub-genre? Or will we be able to add more than one genre?
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We really need to get this going soon. We are pushing 18,000 games now. That's a lot of re-edits to get things set to the new system. I think the plan is to have a main genre and a sub-genre. Then again, I'm not sure we've hammered any of this out. :\
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i think @matt went MIA
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i think @matt went MIA
It still Summer, he tends to vanish on the weekends. ha
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peak-a-boo!
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peak-a-boo!
Ha, but it's not the weekend any more!
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Valid point! ha. I'll actually be gone all this weekend too. *sigh*
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I think a Genre and sub-genre may be enough. I mean I understand some games may fall into multiple categories, but I also understand that a database can get confusing to create with games nowadays falling under Fighting/Puzzle/RPG/Racing/Simulation. And you may be thinking o.O, but no, Japanese games are infamous for that at times, just as they do with their music genres. I mean that's just my opinion, to not keep it too simple, but never too complex.
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I agree. The system needs to be as idiot proof as possible.
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I also agree, some games are getting a little carried away with the genres. As long as we have a way of grouping things as close as we can, simply, that's the main thing. That way we'll have better results come Advance Search time.
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Looking over the list again, and have a couple questions/thoughts.
What is the difference between Shooters and Shoot em Up? Seems like overkill to have both. Maybe merge them into a new category called "Shooting" or something.
And speaking of shooting type games, how about a "Hunting" subcategory?
I think "Art" should be its own category, not a sub under "Other", unless more is added to "Other". Having only one subcategory seems silly.
Not sure if the idea got scrapped or just forgotten, but "Pachinko" never got added to "Arcade".
Just want to get this in shape before it gets implemented.
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I didn't even notice that 1st and 3rd Person games were listed in the shoot 'em up list. We should prolly merge them into one listing.
When I listed Art as Other it was more of an "in case". Like, in case we thought of some other random genre that didn't really fit anywhere else.
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RE:@ tpugmire
Shooters should be both 1st and 3rd person shooting games [Gears of War, Call of Duty, Doom]. Also, Arcade style "Rail" shooters should be included in this genre [Time Crisis, Virtua Cop, Lethal Enforcers].
Shoot 'em ups, also known by shumps in gaming sites and forums, are formerly known as "side-scrolling shooters" and "top-down shooters" are the games that usually involve some kind of ship flying around and shooting at things on the screen. [Gradius, R-Type, Warning Forever, Super Stardust HD]. The debate is whether 3rd person flying games such as Star Fox be considered a Shoot Em' Up. It would most likely be the case as it is called a "Scrolling Shooter" in the US and Japan, and a "Rail Shooter" in Europe.
Unfortunately a lot of sites, and consoles no longer use the genre Shoot 'em up, and the classify those games under Arcade. Just one more reason why we should have that one sub-genre.
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I second jonathonstriker description the shoot 'em up genre, after finding Gears of War 3 [NA] described as such. Ikaruga it ain't. I only checked, because I thought I should be consistent whilst entering the PAL [EU] details for the copy of GOW3 I own.
In general, genre / sub-genre would help, or alternatively tagging games using multiple genres. Red Dead Redemption has elements of Open World, third person shooting with adventure elements (emphasis on story, traveling, backtracking, talking to people, completing quests etc.)
Keep up the good work.
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The more I think about it, the more I like keeping shooting games and shoot 'em ups separate. I just did some modifications to the Google Docs spreadsheet too.
- Moved On-Rails and Light Gun to Shooter Category
- Deleted 1st and 3rd Person from Shoot 'em Ups
- Changed 360 Degree to 360 Degree / Twin Stick
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Maybe we could keep a general 'scrolling' sub-genre. Axelay has both horizontal and vertical levels :P.
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how about
Compilation / Shovelware
Add-on/Expansion pack
Coin-Op Conversion
Anime / Manga
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Maybe we could keep a general 'scrolling' sub-genre. Axelay has both horizontal and vertical levels :P.
You know I never thought about that. Also, I'll have to add that game to my shmup collection soon!
how about
Compilation / Shovelware
Add-on/Expansion pack
Coin-Op Conversion
Anime / Manga
Shovelware wouldn't be considered a genre, it's more of a term used to describe generic budget titles, usually with poor production values. Those games still have their own genres, and should be listed as such. And if they are in a combo pack, then they should be listed as a compilation.
Add-Ons and Expansions aren't genres, they are a type of release, the expansion themselves have the same genre as the original game. For example, using our current list; Diablo II is an Action / Hack 'n Slash. So it's expansion pack, Diablo II: Lord of Destruction, would also be listed under Action / Hack 'n Slash.
Coin-Op Conversions should prolly have their own listing alongside dedicated cabinets, since some arcade games were only released as conversion kits, rather than in their own cab.
And I'm not sure what you mean by Anime / Manga. For example, games like Fullmetal Alchemist: Dual Sympathy, Naruto: Ninja Council, Jump Super Stars and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex are all based on anime and manga, but they are all completely different genres.
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... those four examples are lifted straight from MobyGames. I should know. I never understood what was up with that Anime / Manga category.
Anyway, Compilations, and Add-Ons or Expansions should be a subgenre of "Official Release" in Release Type. We have stuff like http://vgcollect.com/item/7902 already so it's already happening in consoles.
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how about
Hentai/Porn/Adult/Eroge
Roguelike
MUD (Multi-User Dungeon,Multi-User Dimension,Multi-User Domain)
Dating sim
Visual novel
FMV (Full motion video games)
Life simulation
Construction and management simulation (Business simulation,City building,Government simulation)
Christian video games
Art game
Advergame ( for games like Yo! Noid,Sneak King and M.C. Kids )
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I posted this before the wipe:
We need a new genre: Card games. Stuff like poker, collectible card games, etc. There are lots of games that fall under that, mostly gambling, but Magic The Gathering and the Yu-Gi-Oh games count.
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KA-BUMP!
Lets knock this out. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am9xDHaT_ggLdFVtVnVwSWhPcGVscVJpZE1VSG5LSGc&authkey=CO294-EC&hl=en&authkey=CO294-EC#gid=0
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KA-BUMP!
Lets knock this out. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am9xDHaT_ggLdFVtVnVwSWhPcGVscVJpZE1VSG5LSGc&authkey=CO294-EC&hl=en&authkey=CO294-EC#gid=0 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am9xDHaT_ggLdFVtVnVwSWhPcGVscVJpZE1VSG5LSGc&authkey=CO294-EC&hl=en&authkey=CO294-EC#gid=0)
five more sub genres needs to added to the spreadsheet
mini game collection
interactive movie
science
religion
golf
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Thanks for the bump Scott!
Just my two cents: I think we should keep it as simple as possible (ex. "Shooter"), with the possibility of adding a sub-genre after a main genre entry. The only thing is, you don't want to over-complicate sub-genres... My vote is to keep "Racing" just that -- without sub-genres. Same with "Sports" and "Education". "Fighting" should only have maybe "2D" and "3D" as sub-genres. *shrug* I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should keep things as easy as possible, without any room for people to jack entries' genres up.
I do still think we need 3rd Person Shooter as a genre/sub-genre, though. :)
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I agree it should remain simple.
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I agree it should remain simple.
Same here!
A few questions/clarifications, though:
I'm not much of a Shooter player or fan, but I don't see "Bullet-Hell" mentioned in the sub-genres...is that because it falls under one of the other (already there) sub-genres?
AFAIK, there's not many other similar games, but, where would something like Koudelka (RPG + Survival-Horror fall)?
Another question for me would be what distinguishes your "Action RPG's" from your "Real-Time RPG's"?
Lastly, I very strongly believe that there will be a definite need for a BIG addition to the "Style-Guide", or, IMHO, even better would be an entirely separate & independant *STICKY* topic/thread; clearly stating what criteria is to be used when entering/categorizing games...
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I'd like it to be as simple as possible too. It seems like the biggest issue w/ genres is the fact that multiple genres over lap so much now. I'm almost thinking that we'll need to have multiple inputs for multiple genre listings on the game pages to help cover it.
Also, as you can see by that docs file, it's really a bunch of brainstorming and adding/merging. If we can come up with a good and simple system for designating genres that would be awesome.
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So is this finally happening? One other sub-genre I thought of was something like Track & Field under Sports.
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I think it is. I'd like to get all the genre stuff and the devs/pubs stuff figured out soon so we can finally iron out the personal stats pages. But like everyone else has said, it'd be nice if the genres/subs-genres were simple and easy.
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I personally think the only way to make it as simple as it should be is to not have the sub options at all. Cause once it starts, its going to be a flood gate of stuff basically making every game its own seperate sub-genre.
RPG
Sports
Shooter
Action
Adventure
Fighting
Platformer
Do we really need much more than this?
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Yes. You can't just leave out the following:
Puzzle (Tetris, Dr. Mario, Columns.)
Strategy (Command & Conquer, Sim City, X-Com)
Rhythm (Dance Dance Revolution, Guitar Hero, Rock Band)
They're already on the database... this isn't as simple as it seems.
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I personally think the only way to make it as simple as it should be is to not have the sub options at all. Cause once it starts, its going to be a flood gate of stuff basically making every game its own seperate sub-genre.
RPG
Sports
Shooter
Action
Adventure
Fighting
Platformer
Do we really need much more than this?
The more I think about it...the more that I'm starting to think that *ANY* sub-genres will quickly end up being more trouble (and , naturally, creating lots of arguments/debates about "what goes/doesn't go where...and why")...which will, in turn, take time, focus, & effort away from other things that are more worthy & important of the...time, effort, and focus/attention.
IDK the best "Answer/Solution" -but- I'm thinking maybe a site-wide consensus/discussion/vote on making sure that any & all
MAIN
genres are represented & accounted for (or, easy enough to add later, if originally over-looked)...may well be the best, least troublesome, and simplest & most stream-lined way to go.
You all owe me another 2 cents...again!
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I personally think the only way to make it as simple as it should be is to not have the sub options at all. Cause once it starts, its going to be a flood gate of stuff basically making every game its own seperate sub-genre.
RPG
Sports
Shooter
Action
Adventure
Fighting
Platformer
Do we really need much more than this?
The more I think about it...the more that I'm starting to think that *ANY* sub-genres will quickly end up being more trouble (and , naturally, creating lots of arguments/debates about "what goes/doesn't go where...and why")...which will, in turn, take time, focus, & effort away from other things that are more worthy & important of the...time, effort, and focus/attention.
IDK the best "Answer/Solution" -but- I'm thinking maybe a site-wide consensus/discussion/vote on making sure that any & all
MAIN
genres are represented & accounted for (or, easy enough to add later, if originally over-looked)...may well be the best, least troublesome, and simplest & most stream-lined way to go.
You all owe me another 2 cents...again!
I agree with Soera and Disgaeniac.
There are really only two solutions: 1. Stick with broad and simple genres (no sub-genres needed) or 2. List every imaginable sub-genre. I think the best way to be thorough and cover all bases is to have a complete list of basic genres. That way it's less of a headache for everyone involved. :)
EDIT: Also, Foxhack is right: puzzle, strategy and rhythm (or music) should be included. Along with simulation and racing (and possibly survival horror and education?). That would round out an all-inclusive list of genres, I think.
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Just went to Ebay and did a quick copy/paste of their genres of games and this is what was there:
Action/Adventure(233,229)
Arcade(4,069)
Battle(3,010)
Board Games(3,218)
Casino & Cards(4,661)
Educational/Trivia(9,810)
Fighting(23,078)
Flight(5,273)
Music(18,380)
Pinball(1,663)
Platformer(23,145)
Puzzle(22,166)
Racing(39,367)
Role Playing(42,237)
Shooter(57,925)
Simulation(28,596)
Sports(94,958)
Strategy(24,298)
Virtual Pet(2,638)
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Just went to Ebay and did a quick copy/paste of their genres of games and this is what was there:
Action/Adventure(233,229)
Arcade(4,069)
Battle(3,010)
Board Games(3,218)
Casino & Cards(4,661)
Educational/Trivia(9,810)
Fighting(23,078)
Flight(5,273)
Music(18,380)
Pinball(1,663)
Platformer(23,145)
Puzzle(22,166)
Racing(39,367)
Role Playing(42,237)
Shooter(57,925)
Simulation(28,596)
Sports(94,958)
Strategy(24,298)
Virtual Pet(2,638)
This looks fine, but, I question the "Action/Adventure" being combined as one genre...shouldn't it be "Action" *AND* "Adventure" as the 2 'Main' genre categories?
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It does make for a really large category ... but at the same time, some of the other categories can be moved into other stuff. Virtual pet, for example, could be classified as "garbage" and as such, you could also place alot of other genres in there (music, pinball, flight, education, casino, battle, racing, shooter, simulation, sports, strategy).
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It does make for a really large category ... but at the same time, some of the other categories can be moved into other stuff. Virtual pet, for example, could be classified as "garbage" and as such, you could also place alot of other genres in there (music, pinball, flight, education, casino, battle, racing, shooter, simulation, sports, strategy).
True...
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It does make for a really large category ... but at the same time, some of the other categories can be moved into other stuff. Virtual pet, for example, could be classified as "garbage" and as such, you could also place alot of other genres in there (music, pinball, flight, education, casino, battle, racing, shooter, simulation, sports, strategy).
LOL!
I think
Action
Adventure
RPG
Shooter
Survival Horror
Sports
Strategy
Simulation
Fighting
Racing
Puzzle
Platformer
Arcade
Music
Educational
(and maybe Board/Card and Trivia?)
should just about cover it. Thoughts? ???
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Depositing my two cents--clink, clink!
The categories of games I have the most difficulty adding to the database are:
- Digital storybooks (e.g., Chop Suey for PC, Wanwan Aijou Monogatari for Casio Loopy)
- "Productivity"/"Utility" games (e.g., Sparkle Snapshots 3D for 3DS, perhaps art games like Mario Paint)
If it's possible to add a category or two to cover these OR to suggest an existing category that is a good fit, that would be great.
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It does make for a really large category ... but at the same time, some of the other categories can be moved into other stuff. Virtual pet, for example, could be classified as "garbage" and as such, you could also place alot of other genres in there (music, pinball, flight, education, casino, battle, racing, shooter, simulation, sports, strategy).
LOL!
I think
Action
Adventure
RPG
Shooter
Survival Horror
Sports
Strategy
Simulation
Fighting
Racing
Puzzle
Platformer
Arcade
Music
Educational
(and maybe Board/Card and Trivia?)
should just about cover it. Thoughts? ???
I like.
I was thinking a possible "Multi"/"other" (or a better word if someone has one) for games that are commonly argued about & disputed over where they belong (something like games w/ equal amounts of elements from 3 or 4 (or more:) different "Main" genres...
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... I was thinking a possible "Multi"/"other" (or a better word if someone has one) for games that are commonly argued about & disputed over where they belong (something like games w/ equal amounts of elements from 3 or 4 (or more:) different "Main" genres...
Agreed. Having "Other" available as a "genre" may just cover all the... well, other stuff. :P
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... I was thinking a possible "Multi"/"other" (or a better word if someone has one) for games that are commonly argued about & disputed over where they belong (something like games w/ equal amounts of elements from 3 or 4 (or more:) different "Main" genres...
Agreed. Having "Other" available as a "genre" may just cover all the... well, other stuff. :P
Exactly!
(In the hopes of simplifying things:)
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When I was originally thinking of the site having genre/sub-genre, I was thinking more along the lines of being able to assign more than one genre to a title. We can keep it simple with the broader genre names but allow users to add at least one other genre on if they wanted to.
Puzzle Quest -> puzzle + rpg
Rhythm Thief -> rhythm + adventure
Walking Dead -> adventure + survival horror
I worry that being too specific with the subgenres will just 'cause a lot of work and confusion and take the cataloging away from its more simpler roots. If we get too specific with these, then why not include other details about the game like number of players, system requirements, screenshots, etc.
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Ya I think the reason the genre listings have taken so long is because it's really confusing.
I do like the idea of being able to just add multiple genres to the game listings, such as puzzle+platformer, rather than having a set genre of Puzzle Platformer.
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Now see, that would be a much better idea. Games would be listed in both without being totally classified by one.
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Now see, that would be a much better idea. Games would be listed in both without being totally classified by one.
I'm with ya'...so far...
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We are hoping to have work nights starting up again this week. Matt's been sick w/ that Flu bug that's going around and there is no way I am going anywhere near the fallout zone of that thing.
Anyway, I'm going to bring it up while we are working and see if we can get started on something with just listing each genre separately.
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why is there 1st person shooters but not 3rd?
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I tend to classify those as "action".
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Yeah, I think that's what most people call them when they're not RPGs.
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For me I love the sub-genre rather than just being able to list genre's multiple times. Here are some thoughts as to why :)
1. I would like to be able to track what genres and sub-genres I have. Just how many Hockey, Action RPG or First Person Platformers do I have?
2. If you can only list it by the general genres then a modern wrestling game could show up as: action, RPG and sports. Skyrim could be a FPS, RPG, Action, Adventure.
3. If I could sort through my collection by sub-genres then if I felt like playing a twin stick shooter I would be able to see the list of all the ones that I have and pick one that way.
Lastly I don't see what the harm is of having more choices. To me it is the difference of having Sega listed or having separate entries for Master System, Genesis, Saturn...
Just my thoughts on it though.
Also if we do have a sub-genre list I would add and adjust:
Sports: - Extreme
- Alternative
Change multi-sports to Compilation
I would change Racing to Driving and include Action(for Twisted Metal type games or Crazy Taxi)
I would move Mixed Martial Arts to Sports
Action: - Platformer(to me Contra would fall into this category)
Adventure: - Open World(for Minecraft type games)
Puzzle: What is a tradition puzzle game?
- Word
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If we do end up with subgenres, here's a list of the ones on Wikipedia for some reference. I don't always agree with what they assign for a particular game, but at least this has some descriptions for what comprises a certain subgenre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_genres
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I'm curious about what Matt thinks on the subject
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I'm curious about what Matt thinks on the subject
Ha ya. Since he's the one that has to code the whole mess.
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I'm curious about what Matt thinks on the subject
Ha ya. Since he's the one that has to code the whole mess.
Yeah it's very easy for me to make suggestions from my couch :D