General and Gaming => Hardware and Tech => Topic started by: torvez on June 26, 2013, 05:14:06 pm
Title: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on June 26, 2013, 05:14:06 pm
Hey guys! I've been having a hell of a time trying to figure this one out. When I try to connect any cart based system via AV(NES, SNES, Genesis, you name it) to my HDTV, I get no picture or sound. In fact, it doesn't even pick up a signal at all! They all work through RF, but they look pretty bad. But when I try to connect a disc based system via AV, no problems at all. Ever. The TV has "all in one" component in's. The in's on the TV are: Y/Video Pb Pr L R
Yellow is in Y White is in L Red is in R The other 2 are left empty.
I even bought an AV splitter to try and solve the problem. Sega Saturn: Works PS2: Works NES: Nope SNES: NO N64: NOO Genesis: Are you kidding me?!?!
It's a 32" Dynex from Best Buy
I've been dealing with this for a year, finally can't take it anymore! I'd buy a new TV, but I'm not in any position to do that right now. Can anyone help me out? I'd really appreciate it! Thanks, guys!
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on June 26, 2013, 08:09:07 pm
I have a 37 inch dynex from Best Buy purchased at approximately the same time frame. Mine has 6 inputs. I looked up your model and don't have the faintest idea due to the differences....
but, have a suggestion. If you have a DVD player with component output lying around, plug the cart based system into the DVD player and have the DVD player output in component. I'm curious to see if that works. This is the setup I use to record footage so I don't have to move wires around.
Otherwise I do RGB Scart converted to component. It works well too. Produces a sharper image than S-video for the old consoles.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: thomascozine on June 26, 2013, 08:12:34 pm
I have 47" LG and I have no issues whatsoever. I only have to change it from 16:9 to 4:3 depending on what I'm playing. I have video in fact: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd14MuTzIdI
Best I can say is make absolutely sure you're plugging the connectors into the right spots. You may have put them in to the component inputs instead of the composite inputs.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: soera on June 26, 2013, 09:55:54 pm
Its hard for me to tell whats what without some sort of pic. Can you snap one and post it up? I can probably help you then.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on June 26, 2013, 10:27:34 pm
Thanks for the replies! Sin, could you link me to an SCART - RBG converter? I don't know anything about SCART. I have a VCR player that may do the trick though. Here is a pic, Soera: (http://i1220.photobucket.com/albums/dd450/Torvez_Gonyea/IMG_0176_zpsb2ab0461.jpg) (http://s1220.photobucket.com/user/Torvez_Gonyea/media/IMG_0176_zpsb2ab0461.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: soera on June 26, 2013, 10:47:31 pm
Which cables are you using exactly? After looking at that, the way you had it plugged in is correct. May want to try a different set of cables.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on June 26, 2013, 10:49:07 pm
Which cables are you using exactly? After looking at that, the way you had it plugged in is correct. May want to try a different set of cables.
I've tried various sets of cables on each system, none of them work.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: topspot123 on June 27, 2013, 01:37:08 pm
Just a suggestion, try to run the signals through a vcr first. NES via RCA into VHS, out of VHS into TV. I haven't a clue if it will help, but try it if you can.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: haloofthesun on June 27, 2013, 02:10:32 pm
For some HDTVs older consoles will not work, even when using component cables (Red White Yellow), even when there are hookups for it. This is fairly rare, though. Supposedly it's the TV not knowing what to do with the resolution. However, with most HDTVs it should work, albeit very stretched out and distorted, plus the fact that the TV will show you things you weren't necessarily meant to see. A CRTV didn't show you certain methods the developers used to create graphics and they would take advantage of the poor quality (often using it to blur two colors together).
Anyway, back on topic: My HDTV plays any console I have just fine with one exception: the N64. Plug it in: no signal. Use the same A/V cable with the SNES and it plays just fine, so it isn't the SNES. Hook the N64 up to a CRT: it works! It turns out this is a common issue and even Nintendo isn't sure why this problem occurs. It only happens with certain HDTVs, and even if you get your N64 to work, not every game will work with every HDTV.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: soera on June 27, 2013, 06:29:32 pm
Could very well be whats up.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on June 27, 2013, 08:09:39 pm
I'll post stuff on SCART, but wanted to say that the VCR probably won't work. It acts as a passthrough for the game AV to the TV. It's essentially an AV switcher, like he already has. Now, if you have something that converts it to Component, you might be in business.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on June 27, 2013, 08:28:53 pm
SCART to Component for Retro Game systems 101
Retro Game Girl (tragically undersubscribed channel. One of the most intelligent users) has a great intro video and goes over the equipment and setup.
For a nice video demonstration (skip to around 1:30):
Honestly, I can't tell a difference between SCART to component and Sonic Ultimate Genesis collection on 360 through HDMI. It's amazing. It changes the crappy 240 signal most systems outputted in composite to 480i (depending on if the console is capable). This might be important due to an earlier post talking about your TV possibly not accepting certain resolutions. I don't know if that is indeed the case though.
RGB and component also fixes a lot of colors and gets them much closer to what they are supposed to be like.
If you want to take it a step further, you can also create scanlines on HDTVs with an SLG 3000. This is the next big purchase for me and my dreamcast.
It's an insane amount of stuff. But not as much, as one initially thinks looking at this stuff. Getting stuff like this is also one reason I focused my collection down. I wanted to concentrate on sound and video quality along with accessories. But anyways, hopefully the above will give you all you need to know about video game output on retro game consoles. Definitely post if you have any questions.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on June 27, 2013, 08:36:10 pm
Links to equipment:
Scart to component http://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCART-Component-Converter-Genesis/dp/B004XSSDPO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1372379486&sr=8-1&keywords=genesis+rgb
These are by no means the cheapest options. But looking and waiting would be involved. You can also find SCART cables with the standard red/white audio cables attached if you wait and look for them. RetroGameGirl describes the equipment well. I would follow her advice since she walks through the setup. It's an automatic reference.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on June 27, 2013, 09:05:28 pm
Thanks alot, Sin! I can't afford the equipment right now unfortunately. But as soon as I can, I'm going upgrade to that setup. That picture difference is crazy! Lol, I guess I can't complain, after all I did get the TV for $150. But still... I just hope when I do get it, it will work and not have the same issues...
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on June 27, 2013, 09:25:57 pm
I wouldn't pick it up to fix the problem. I don't know exactly what is with you TV, so who know what will fix it.
But the setup is expensive. It is something I am slowly working on. But, definitely keep the money toward the business. Starting up is the rough part. I remember my parents starting a store when I was a kid. It's exciting, stressful, and hard. But being your own boss is priceless.
And remember, a lot of purchases can be tax write offs. Who knows, you may want a demo unit at your booth?
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on June 27, 2013, 09:36:08 pm
I wouldn't pick it up to fix the problem. I don't know exactly what is with you TV, so who know what will fix it.
But the setup is expensive. It is something I am slowly working on. But, definitely keep the money toward the business. Starting up is the rough part. I remember my parents starting a store when I was a kid. It's exciting, stressful, and hard. But being your own boss is priceless.
And remember, a lot of purchases can be tax write offs. Who knows, you may want a demo unit at your booth?
Yeah, the RGB cables are definitely something I want in the long run, but the business comes first!
I really appreciate your encouragement! I'm not really keen on how tax write offs work right now. I remember alot of resellers coming into meijer when I used to work there and they used to buy all of our systems we had and get a tax exemption. I most likely need some kind of license for that. It will be a thing I look into after our first weekend at the booth, which starts tomorrow at 6AM!
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: pceslayer on July 01, 2013, 04:42:36 pm
Test your systems composite out on a different TV to be sure it isn't your hardware that has the issue. Take it over a friends perhaps?
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on July 01, 2013, 05:03:23 pm
Test your systems composite out on a different TV to be sure it isn't your hardware that has the issue. Take it over a friends perhaps?
I can play it in the living room and anywhere else I take it. They always work well.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: pceslayer on July 03, 2013, 10:23:47 am
as others have said... try picking up a old vcr and using that as a passthrough.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on July 04, 2013, 12:10:15 am
No luck with the VCR pass through either... I guess I'll have to deal with RF until I can afford a new TV
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: darko on July 04, 2013, 07:40:21 pm
I wouldn't start investing in SCART to fix your current issue. If you want all of your devices to run SCART for quality's sake, then by all means. However, if you're just going to do it to fix the TV issue, I would suggest investing in a nicer TV. In all honesty that would likely cost less than converting everything into SCART.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on July 04, 2013, 08:28:08 pm
I wouldn't start investing in SCART to fix your current issue. If you want all of your devices to run SCART for quality's sake, then by all means. However, if you're just going to do it to fix the TV issue, I would suggest investing in a nicer TV. In all honesty that would likely cost less than converting everything into SCART.
I don't know where you're buying your TVs! The converter can be found for $40 with patience... $50 is you just want it now. Each cable is then around $10. You don't NEED the switcher. This is certainly cheaper than a TV.
Plus, the main problem with playing retro games on a modern tv is that they are too nice. The game systems (or in a lot of instances the connections) were made for crappy televisions. Rather than get a nicer TV (which could make the problem worse with higher resolutions), invest in the connections that are capable of more channels of information.
But I would definitely say do not invest in scart to fix the problem. Who knows what the problem is. You could spend $60 and have no solution.
What I would do.... drive through several apartment complexes to see if there are old CRT tv sets by dumpsters. Or go to a thrift store or craigslist. You should be able to get a 32 inch TV for about 20 bucks. Cheapest fix.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: pceslayer on July 05, 2013, 05:24:47 pm
What I would do.... drive through several apartment complexes to see if there are old CRT tv sets by dumpsters. Or go to a thrift store or craigslist. You should be able to get a 32 inch TV for about 20 bucks. Cheapest fix.
Do this! These consoles are designed to be played on a CRT and so CRT is the best way to experience them.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: scott on July 05, 2013, 05:33:28 pm
What I would do.... drive through several apartment complexes to see if there are old CRT tv sets by dumpsters. Or go to a thrift store or craigslist. You should be able to get a 32 inch TV for about 20 bucks. Cheapest fix.
Do this! These consoles are designed to be played on a CRT and so CRT is the best way to experience them.
Agreed. I had my old consoles hooked up to my HDTV and didn't like it at all. Now I've got my old stuff hooked into a CRT and it's like night and day.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: torvez on July 06, 2013, 03:17:45 pm
I have a few CRT's in my garage, the problem is space. I don't have anywhere to put them, so that isn't an option. And I wouldn't buy a SCART setup just to fix a problem, just for better quality.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: maverickbna on July 19, 2013, 12:37:41 pm
Thanks alot, Sin! I can't afford the equipment right now unfortunately. But as soon as I can, I'm going upgrade to that setup. That picture difference is crazy! Lol, I guess I can't complain, after all I did get the TV for $150. But still... I just hope when I do get it, it will work and not have the same issues...
It might be worth checking local thrift stores and Goodwill locations to buy a good CRT TV for your retro systems. You'd get a better experience on one of them than trying your HDTV, especially with the inputs disappearing. I've seen big TVs at my local Goodwill for $15 or $20. I even bought a 30" Sony WEGA CRT HDTV for $20 there a couple months ago! You could also get a great Sony Trinitron TV at the same price.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: maverickbna on July 19, 2013, 12:38:14 pm
I have a few CRT's in my garage, the problem is space. I don't have anywhere to put them, so that isn't an option. And I wouldn't buy a SCART setup just to fix a problem, just for better quality.
Oops, missed that post when I replied.
Sorry!
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: scott on July 20, 2013, 09:00:22 am
This is an interesting read. But I got lost in a lot of the technical stuff.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on July 20, 2013, 03:36:31 pm
Yeah, the guy in one of the videos I purchased got a Sony BVM recently. I totally want one. But I am really stuck in the struggle of picture size vs quality. They are in complete opposition. A 20 inch CRT is pretty damn small.
But, that article is really good. I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing, but it appears very informative. I am going to read it this evening I think.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: theflea on July 23, 2013, 06:12:17 am
I mostly use 2 HDTVs for most all my games, a Samsung 48" 1080 and a JVC 32" 720. I've only found a few consoles that have issues on the HDTVs (not counting the pal consoles, those I have a Pal tube TV)
1. Intellivision - For some reason the 1080 screen shakes real bad. But it works fine on the 720. 2. APF MP1000 - This obscure console will not work on any HDTV, I have to use a tube for it to work at all. 3. Pong Consoles - These are hit and miss, some work fine on the 1080 others only work on the 720 while others need a tube. 4. RCA Studio II - I can't even get a picture on the 1080, but it works fine on the 720.
I find it funny that these few consoles will not work on a 1080 HDTV while the 1st console ever made the Odyssey 1 works great on any TV I have. lol
I even have no issues with Japanese RF consoles where I have to turn the channel to Cable 96 to play it.
So if anyone is looking for a HDTV that works with classic consoles, I recommend a Samsung 1080 because if it's anything like mine, it will play all your consoles but the few I mentioned. But if your into lightgun games, you'll still need to drag out an old tube. Just look at the back and make sure it has an RF, AV, RBG, and HDMI hook ups. (An S-Video input would be nice to, but not many consoles use this)
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on July 23, 2013, 10:47:26 pm
I'm waiting for the HDTV with the two-prong VHF connectors (I think that is what they are called. It's before my time mostly)....
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on August 09, 2013, 11:34:26 pm
SOme of you may know of my love of Adam Koralik videos. He just recently reviewed a new item that does scart to hdmi. I just put in my order for the product. He provides some good video information and comparisons. But most of all he provides some solid hints as to why the old systems aren't working and this being a very probable fix. The only downside I see is that I don't know of an SLG scanline generator for hdmi. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00988GMLG/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
But he does back up my claim that video can look just fine on modern tvs. As he says, the only reason people use big TVs is because on those you don't notice how bad composite is. Composite is still just as bad. But those TVs are bad and hide the fact that it is the connection. :)
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on August 19, 2013, 11:03:17 pm
OK, so I just got everything in for the SCART to HDMI. Holy SHIT! The upgrade in quality is insane. The benefits of RGM SCART far outweighs any benefits of a CRT for composite.
I tested it out with Phantasy Star for the Master System. I always played this on the Ultimate Genesis collection on 360, because it looked so much better. I remember being shocked at how bad it looked on the Master System after playing the 360. But Damn, does the SMS look good on SCART to HDMI. It rivals the emulation through 360. I can't recommend that converter enough. I honestly, never thought the Master System could look so good.
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: mkarasch on August 19, 2013, 11:19:19 pm
Pics? Or will it not do justice?
Title: Re: Cart based systems vs. my HDTV! FIGHT!
Post by: sin2beta on August 21, 2013, 12:37:41 am
I wouldn't be able to do better than what Adam did in the video a few posts up. Look at the Sonic 2 comparison. Make sure you turn the video to HD in the options at the bottom though. And the difference is way more apparent in person.