Don't make this political. It's not the time to drag that idiots name into this.
It's incredibly tragic this happened. I live in Florida, just a couple hour drive away from Orlando, though I wish I lived there to help with at least some blood donation as I've never done it before, but it's amazing to see the hundreds that are already lining up to give blood there right now.
Don't make this political. It's not the time to drag that idiots name into this.
It's incredibly tragic this happened. I live in Florida, just a couple hour drive away from Orlando, though I wish I lived there to help with at least some blood donation as I've never done it before, but it's amazing to see the hundreds that are already lining up to give blood there right now.
Isis is a political issue and the reason for the bloodshed, a resolution through meaningful discussion makes the likelihood of such tragedies less likely to recur than sentimentalism. Not that i'm against the tributes, and respects. But it's happened before this isn't the first time, just it was schools. Meaningful discussion is more important at this point, but your sentiments are understood.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: maximo310 on June 12, 2016, 03:27:02 pm
Don't make this political. It's not the time to drag that idiots name into this.
It's incredibly tragic this happened. I live in Florida, just a couple hour drive away from Orlando, though I wish I lived there to help with at least some blood donation as I've never done it before, but it's amazing to see the hundreds that are already lining up to give blood there right now.
Isis is a political issue and the reason for the bloodshed, a resolution through meaningful discussion makes the likelihood of such tragedies less likely to recur than sentimentalism. Not that i'm against the tributes, and respects. But it's happened before this isn't the first time, just it was schools. Meaningful discussion is more important at this point, but your sentiments are understood.
Dude, you completely missed his point. Inserting non-related people to this tragedy will not promote meaningful discussion.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: kamikazekeeg on June 12, 2016, 03:34:24 pm
Don't make this political. It's not the time to drag that idiots name into this.
It's incredibly tragic this happened. I live in Florida, just a couple hour drive away from Orlando, though I wish I lived there to help with at least some blood donation as I've never done it before, but it's amazing to see the hundreds that are already lining up to give blood there right now.
Isis is a political issue and the reason for the bloodshed, a resolution through meaningful discussion makes the likelihood of such tragedies less likely to recur than sentimentalism. Not that i'm against the tributes, and respects. But it's happened before this isn't the first time, just it was schools. Meaningful discussion is more important at this point, but your sentiments are understood.
I agree in meaningful discussion, but Trump is not the one brought in for that. This doesn't have much to do with actual ISIS, it's some random home grown extremist who decided to tie his attacks to them with a pledge, but he was an American citizen. If ISIS was gone, he'd attach himself to any other random muslim terrorist group to help justify his views.
Right now, we just need to let the details settle before going off on what needs to happen in the future.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 03:42:54 pm
Don't make this political. It's not the time to drag that idiots name into this.
It's incredibly tragic this happened. I live in Florida, just a couple hour drive away from Orlando, though I wish I lived there to help with at least some blood donation as I've never done it before, but it's amazing to see the hundreds that are already lining up to give blood there right now.
Isis is a political issue and the reason for the bloodshed, a resolution through meaningful discussion makes the likelihood of such tragedies less likely to recur than sentimentalism. Not that i'm against the tributes, and respects. But it's happened before this isn't the first time, just it was schools. Meaningful discussion is more important at this point, but your sentiments are understood.
Dude, you completely missed his point. Inserting non-related people to this tragedy will not promote meaningful discussion.
It is related. It'll come back to gun control, and Islamic terrorism sooner or later. But before that some solidarity movement which eventually dies down until the next shooting rather than resolving anything.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 03:43:12 pm
Don't make this political. It's not the time to drag that idiots name into this.
It's incredibly tragic this happened. I live in Florida, just a couple hour drive away from Orlando, though I wish I lived there to help with at least some blood donation as I've never done it before, but it's amazing to see the hundreds that are already lining up to give blood there right now.
Isis is a political issue and the reason for the bloodshed, a resolution through meaningful discussion makes the likelihood of such tragedies less likely to recur than sentimentalism. Not that i'm against the tributes, and respects. But it's happened before this isn't the first time, just it was schools. Meaningful discussion is more important at this point, but your sentiments are understood.
I agree in meaningful discussion, but Trump is not the one brought in for that. This doesn't have much to do with actual ISIS, it's some random home grown extremist who decided to tie his attacks to them with a pledge, but he was an American citizen. If ISIS was gone, he'd attach himself to any other random muslim terrorist group to help justify his views.
Right now, we just need to let the details settle before going off on what needs to happen in the future.
Right. Agreed.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: stealthrush on June 12, 2016, 04:04:09 pm
I'll just leave this here..
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: kamikazekeeg on June 12, 2016, 04:08:25 pm
It is the elephant in the room whether you like it or not.
Mocking the lives lost by thinking Infowars has anything legitimate to say about this. They are a bunch of opportunistic scumbags.
By not discussing the culprit's motives is mocking lives lost. I agree, most of Infowars exaggerates and panders although the sentiment expressed needed to be said.
'It's time for America to choose. You can have female emancipation and gay rights, or you can have Muslims. Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society. Islam is here to roll the clock back.' -Milo Yiannopoulos (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/742057474052620288)
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: kamikazekeeg on June 12, 2016, 05:17:11 pm
By not discussing the culprit's motives is mocking lives lost. I agree, most of Infowars exaggerates and panders although the sentiment expressed needed to be said.
'It's time for America to choose. You can have female emancipation and gay rights, or you can have Muslims. Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society. Islam is here to roll the clock back.' -Milo Yiannopoulos (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/742057474052620288)
Most of what Infowars does is lie. There's very few people as dishonest as Alex Jones and there's a long, documented, history of this with him. I could care less what they have to say because they are a blight on this country's journalism and even considering them as a news source is damaging to ones mind. The discussions can be had after all the details are known and it can be handled with some actual respect. A quick glance and Infowars is already running this shit into the ground with fearmongering. Don't bring them up here again. It's basically just spitting in the faces of all who died.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: stealthrush on June 12, 2016, 05:37:23 pm
By not discussing the culprit's motives is mocking lives lost. I agree, most of Infowars exaggerates and panders although the sentiment expressed needed to be said.
'It's time for America to choose. You can have female emancipation and gay rights, or you can have Muslims. Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society. Islam is here to roll the clock back.' -Milo Yiannopoulos (https://twitter.com/Nero/status/742057474052620288)
Most of what Infowars does is lie. There's very few people as dishonest as Alex Jones and there's a long, documented, history of this with him. I could care less what they have to say because they are a blight on this country's journalism and even considering them as a news source is damaging to ones mind. The discussions can be had after all the details are known and it can be handled with some actual respect. A quick glance and Infowars is already running this shit into the ground with fearmongering. Don't bring them up here again. It's basically just spitting in the faces of all who died.
By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.
(https://i.sli.mg/ysOmp6.jpg)
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: kamikazekeeg on June 12, 2016, 05:53:40 pm
By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.
There is no cover up. The information about dedicating the attack to ISIS and his past interest with the FBI is being discussed, but this isn't solely a discussion about that since the shooter doesn't seem to be a member of ISIS. He's an American citizen that was clearly brainwashed by extremist propaganda and we'll have to see where he got all his weaponry. A discussion could be had about radical extremists, but lets keep Infowars out of it, that's all I'm saying. It's like having a talk about racism and using Stormfront.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: telly on June 12, 2016, 07:48:57 pm
By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.
Personally, if I had a loved one who died in an attack like this, I wouldn't really give a damn why or what the killers' motive was. They'd still be dead, and it wouldn't change anything or help me feel better about what happened; it might make me feel worse. I certainly wouldn't want to watch a video on infowars about the event.
It's important to figure out the why at some point, but I think setting attention on details like that at this point in time really trivializes the pain and suffering that the victim's loved ones are going through.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 08:27:52 pm
By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.
Personally, if I had a loved one who died in an attack like this, I wouldn't really give a damn why or what the killers' motive was. They'd still be dead, and it wouldn't change anything or help me feel better about what happened; it might make me feel worse. I certainly wouldn't want to watch a video on infowars about the event.
It's important to figure out the why at some point, but I think setting attention on details like that at this point in time really trivializes the pain and suffering that the victim's loved ones are going through.
So the victims would rather it happen again and with someone elses kids once acceptance of the situation happens? The only solace anyone can have is such a tragedy never happens again with someone elses loved ones., and why the hell it even happened in the first place? Why do you think some victims of columbine do a lot of public speaking? It's so something so tragic never happens again and lives are saved. I'll tell you what will do absolutely nothing crying, and sentimentals and forgetting it a few minutes later. Rather than discussion.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: telly on June 12, 2016, 08:37:45 pm
Let me.be perfectly clear. I'm not saying and have never said we should never talk about why this happened: it's very important that we do. I just don't think it should be at the forefront of discussion at this time when we don't know everything about the situation. It breeds misunderstanding and misinformation, and any changes that are made moving forward may take a while to implement and should be evidence-based, not from speculation.
And also remember that people deal with grief in different ways. The priority should be with what the families and loved ones want, at least in my opinion. I imagine the victims will want answers, and they deserve them. But trying to dissect this when it hasn't even been 24 hours yet isn't wise. We need support and assessment of the situation, not an analysis.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: kamikazekeeg on June 12, 2016, 08:40:25 pm
So the victims would rather it happen again and with someone elses kids once acceptance of the situation happens? The only solace anyone can have is such a tragedy never happens again with someone elses loved ones., and why the hell it even happened in the first place? Why do you think some victims of columbine do a lot of public speaking? It's so something so tragic never happens again and lives are saved. I'll tell you what will do absolutely nothing crying, and sentimentals and forgetting it a few minutes later. Rather than discussion.
Blind emotional rage when all the details aren't out there doesn't help anyone either. We can't do this the day of the event happening as it mostly just comes down to a lot of group blaming with not a lot of concrete information. This will be discussed for weeks and months to see about what what can be done to deal with this kind of stuff in the future, though it'll never go away.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 08:42:20 pm
So the victims would rather it happen again and with someone elses kids once acceptance of the situation happens? The only solace anyone can have is such a tragedy never happens again with someone elses loved ones., and why the hell it even happened in the first place? Why do you think some victims of columbine do a lot of public speaking? It's so something so tragic never happens again and lives are saved. I'll tell you what will do absolutely nothing crying, and sentimentals and forgetting it a few minutes later. Rather than discussion.
Blind emotional rage when all the details aren't out there doesn't help anyone either. We can't do this the day of the event happening as it mostly just comes down to a lot of group blaming with not a lot of concrete information. This will be discussed for weeks and months to see about what what can be done to deal with this kind of stuff in the future, though it'll never go away.
As I said you're right, and I agree with you. We wait until the facts are clear.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: maximo310 on June 12, 2016, 08:45:00 pm
^ If you're really gonna stick to that, then don't make baseless assumptions.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 08:45:32 pm
Let me.be perfectly clear. I'm not saying and have never said we should never talk about why this happened: it's very important that we do. I just don't think it should be at the forefront of discussion at this time when we don't know everything about the situation. It breeds misunderstanding and misinformation, and any changes that are made moving forward may take a while to implement and should be evidence-based, not from speculation.
And also remember that people deal with grief in different ways. The priority should be with what the families and loved ones want, at least in my opinion. I imagine the victims will want answers, and they deserve them. But trying to dissect this when it hasn't even been 24 hours yet isn't wise. We need support and assessment of the situation, not an analysis.
Fine. But can't help but feel deja vu about this whole thing.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 08:50:21 pm
^ If you're really gonna stick to that, then don't make baseless assumptions.
Oh god. Don't look so surprised another shooting happened. Assumptions, sure.. maybe, baseless assumptions I don't think so.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: marvelvscapcom2 on June 12, 2016, 09:04:54 pm
We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters. Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is. Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed. The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything. Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens.
My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 12, 2016, 09:26:05 pm
We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters. Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is. Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed. The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything. Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens.
My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.
Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: marvelvscapcom2 on June 13, 2016, 12:47:53 am
We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters. Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is. Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed. The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything. Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens.
My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.
Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.
Care to elaborate?
Nihilism- the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. (specify which part of my comment that was represented)
How did my statement even remotely connect to slavery or "speaking German" which I assume you mean WWII. You do realize that a liberal was our president during the time of WWII correct? And slavery was ended by Abraham Lincoln, yet another liberal. How can you speak against liberalism yet name 2 instances in American history where a liberal literally changed our nation for the better. It is hypocritical. In fact if it weren't for liberalism (Political philosophy founded on liberty and equality and openness to change traditional values and idealogy) their would still be slaves. Conservative ideology is the reason slavery lasted as long as it did. Your rebuttal was all over the place and lacked elaboration to further the argumentation.
Conservative ideology is the cause for most wars. In fact conservative defined as followed (Holding onto traditional values often fearing or opposing change in regards to religion or politics) is ideology that consists of homophobia among others. Homophobia being One of the possible causes of THIS tragedy. So maybe you should save the B.S fear mongering, insensitive, conservative, info wars B.S for somewhere else.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: dreama1 on June 13, 2016, 03:42:36 am
We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters. Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is. Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed. The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything. Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens.
My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.
Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.
Care to elaborate?
Nihilism- the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. (specify which part of my comment that was represented)
How did my statement even remotely connect to slavery or "speaking German" which I assume you mean WWII. You do realize that a liberal was our president during the time of WWII correct? And slavery was ended by Abraham Lincoln, yet another liberal. How can you speak against liberalism yet name 2 instances in American history where a liberal literally changed our nation for the better. It is hypocritical. In fact if it weren't for liberalism (Political philosophy founded on liberty and equality and openness to change traditional values and idealogy) their would still be slaves. Conservative ideology is the reason slavery lasted as long as it did. Your rebuttal was all over the place and lacked elaboration to further the argumentation.
Conservative ideology is the cause for most wars. In fact conservative defined as followed (Holding onto traditional values often fearing or opposing change in regards to religion or politics) is ideology that consists of homophobia among others. Homophobia being One of the possible causes of THIS tragedy. So maybe you should save the B.S fear mongering, insensitive, conservative, info wars B.S for somewhere else.
Ad hominems, and quite a mouth full there. But lets see.
Classical liberalism. Not progressive liberalism. Anyway not really the best example someone who gave the go to make atomic bombs, and drop atomic bombs on Japan is it? , if it was wrong or not? Or someone who organised the bloodiest war in history to be fought on American soil by invading the south because of legal constitutional succession, that could of been resolved by other means? You're not giving the best examples exactly but okay. The slavery metaphor used before you drag it out any longer is because if no one acknowledged it was a major problem and to speak out against it, it would never have been resolved. That slave owners were a "problem" "Because it's offensive to slave owners to say such things" The Ideology we are facing today that hates our values in the west must also be acknowledged, and resolved and considered "problematic ". (They're not liberals!)
Oh.. why a proud nation that came close to greatness at one point became the laughing stock of the planet right now you manage to sum up in just one response incredibly. The liberalism you practice right now im afraid is fascism really with manners and rooted in marxism. Do as you please but maybe it's shock to you but islam is not a "LIBERAL" ideology. So please. The things we fought hard for in the past like fair treatment of woman, and fair treatment of homosexuals, the right to a fair trial, criticism of religion, religious freedom, and freedom of speech of course in the west. They do not tolerate any of the above. It's undisputed. I'm not trying to offend you but ill speak bluntly about it it disgusts me that you surrender such hard fought values. The liberal muslim is "almost" none existent and less each day (and by the definition of the quran, not even a real muslim.)
"ideology that consists of homophobia among others" By the way that's very hateful of you to label conservatives as such its such typical liberal logic I don't even know how to respond to that, saying you're the one who wants to invite a religion/culture in "solidarity" that sees no problem having the death penalty for homosexuals you must be proud to have "solidarity" with such a none anti-liberal religion/culture, It didn't exactly spread by the word you know? Good job pissing on the gravestones, hope it was satisfactory. :)
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: marvelvscapcom2 on June 13, 2016, 08:35:47 am
We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters. Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is. Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed. The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything. Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens.
My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.
Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.
Care to elaborate?
Nihilism- the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. (specify which part of my comment that was represented)
How did my statement even remotely connect to slavery or "speaking German" which I assume you mean WWII. You do realize that a liberal was our president during the time of WWII correct? And slavery was ended by Abraham Lincoln, yet another liberal. How can you speak against liberalism yet name 2 instances in American history where a liberal literally changed our nation for the better. It is hypocritical. In fact if it weren't for liberalism (Political philosophy founded on liberty and equality and openness to change traditional values and idealogy) their would still be slaves. Conservative ideology is the reason slavery lasted as long as it did. Your rebuttal was all over the place and lacked elaboration to further the argumentation.
Conservative ideology is the cause for most wars. In fact conservative defined as followed (Holding onto traditional values often fearing or opposing change in regards to religion or politics) is ideology that consists of homophobia among others. Homophobia being One of the possible causes of THIS tragedy. So maybe you should save the B.S fear mongering, insensitive, conservative, info wars B.S for somewhere else.
Ad hominems, and quite a mouth full there. But lets see.
Classical liberalism. Not progressive liberalism. Anyway not really the best example someone who gave the go to make atomic bombs, and drop atomic bombs on Japan is it? , if it was wrong or not? Or someone who organised the bloodiest war in history to be fought on American soil by invading the south because of legal constitutional succession, that could of been resolved by other means? You're not giving the best examples exactly but okay. The slavery metaphor used before you drag it out any longer is because if no one acknowledged it was a major problem and to speak out against it, it would never have been resolved. That slave owners were a "problem" "Because it's offensive to slave owners to say such things" The Ideology we are facing today that hates our values in the west must also be acknowledged, and resolved and considered "problematic ". (They're not liberals!)
Oh.. why a proud nation that came close to greatness at one point became the laughing stock of the planet right now you manage to sum up in just one response incredibly. The liberalism you practice right now im afraid is fascism really with manners and rooted in marxism. Do as you please but maybe it's shock to you but islam is not a "LIBERAL" ideology. So please. The things we fought hard for in the past like fair treatment of woman, and fair treatment of homosexuals, the right to a fair trial, criticism of religion, religious freedom, and freedom of speech of course in the west. They do not tolerate any of the above. It's undisputed. I'm not trying to offend you but ill speak bluntly about it it disgusts me that you surrender such hard fought values. The liberal muslim is "almost" none existent and less each day (and by the definition of the quran, not even a real muslim.)
"ideology that consists of homophobia among others" By the way that's very hateful of you to label conservatives as such its such typical liberal logic I don't even know how to respond to that, saying you're the one who wants to invite a religion/culture in "solidarity" that sees no problem having the death penalty for homosexuals you must be proud to have "solidarity" with such a none anti-liberal religion/culture, It didn't exactly spread by the word you know? Good job pissing on the gravestones, hope it was satisfactory. :)
Wow, where do I begin.
Firstly, I was just pointing out your obvious hypocrisies. Saying slavery and WWII would have had different outcomes if everyone had liberal ideology made no sense considering Slavery and WWII were fought and ended by liberals. But I don't necessarily consider myself a full liberal. And you say it is hateful to label conservatives as homophobes, yet you proceed to label an entire religion as homophobes and radical extremists. A religion that consists of people like Shaquille O'Neil and Dr.Oz. So I guess Shaq is a homophobic possible radical extremist by your logic right? I guess all gamers are energy drink drinking virgins that swear at their moms by your logic right? Quit putting people in bubbles and grouping people. It is getting played. Typical trump logic. We cant build and grow from this. A conservative is what got us in this cultural mess in the first place. (Bush Jr.) Conservatives also caused World War II, Vietnam War, 9/11 and Most terrorist attacks. But that is neither here nor there. all Islamic people arent to blame. Sometimes I question if you realize their are 1.6 billion Islamic people. 95 percent of which innocent folks with unique beliefs from ours but still deserving of freedom and life.
Islam is conservative but so is Christianity. Conservative doesnt mean radical extremists or terrorists. Battling fire with fire will start nothing but more wars (ww3) which this country can ill afford. So please elaborate as to what you recommend we do? Strip them of their liberties when 90 percent of them are innocent people like you and me? Invade them, harm them. Disrespect them? How would that make us any different? Nothing can be done. Point blank. We cant stop islam and we cant stop our citizens from converting or swearing allegiance to ISIS. What wont solve anything is labeling millions or disrespecting religious values of others. In fact it will make things worst (ww3)
Conservatives revel in homophobia and have opposed gay marriage for the longest yet are the first to point the homophobia finger at islam in crucial times. You, Alex Jones, and Trump are all deluded.
You have yet to further argumentation and have only proceeded to make vague claims and brutally offensive insensitive statements like "good job pissing on the gravestones". Honestly, you can share different view points all you want. But can't you word things like an adult? Because debating politics is one thing but taking it to a personal level is another. I expected more from you.
But either way bud, I think we should agree to disagree. Because I don't see this argument going anywhere productive. I don't agree with your views at all nor do you agree with mine. So let's leave it at that. I am honestly saddened by all this nonsense and I don't feel like fighting with you. I haven't even slept. I just want to get along and everyone to model their lives in peace and acceptance rather than hate..
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: kashell on June 13, 2016, 08:49:21 am
I know that gf78's heart was in the right place when he made this topic.
But, this is probably not what he expected. This certainly isn't what I expected, but I'm starting to understand that sometimes VG Collect is another website where people can make insensitive remarks without giving it a second thought.
Title: Re: Prayers for the victims of Orlando
Post by: karyann on June 13, 2016, 08:54:28 am
Aaaaaaaaand I'm locking this thread up.
We want to keep a friendly and pleasant athmosphere around and this topic is derailing in a way completely opposite to that.
I understand what gf78's intentions were and I'm sorry that I have to lock your thread.