Prayers for the victims of Orlando

[kamikazekeeg]

By not discussing the culprit's motives is mocking lives lost. I agree, most of Infowars exaggerates and panders although the sentiment expressed needed to be said.

'It's time for America to choose. You can have female emancipation and gay rights, or you can have Muslims. Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society. Islam is here to roll the clock back.' -Milo Yiannopoulos

Most of what Infowars does is lie.  There's very few people as dishonest as Alex Jones and there's a long, documented, history of this with him.  I could care less what they have to say because they are a blight on this country's journalism and even considering them as a news source is damaging to ones mind.  The discussions can be had after all the details are known and it can be handled with some actual respect.  A quick glance and Infowars is already running this shit into the ground with fearmongering.  Don't bring them up here again.  It's basically just spitting in the faces of all who died.

[stealthrush]

By not discussing the culprit's motives is mocking lives lost. I agree, most of Infowars exaggerates and panders although the sentiment expressed needed to be said.

'It's time for America to choose. You can have female emancipation and gay rights, or you can have Muslims. Western capitalist democracy gave women and gays equal footing in society. Islam is here to roll the clock back.' -Milo Yiannopoulos

Most of what Infowars does is lie.  There's very few people as dishonest as Alex Jones and there's a long, documented, history of this with him.  I could care less what they have to say because they are a blight on this country's journalism and even considering them as a news source is damaging to ones mind.  The discussions can be had after all the details are known and it can be handled with some actual respect.  A quick glance and Infowars is already running this shit into the ground with fearmongering.  Don't bring them up here again.  It's basically just spitting in the faces of all who died.

By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.

[kamikazekeeg]

By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.

There is no cover up.  The information about dedicating the attack to ISIS and his past interest with the FBI is being discussed, but this isn't solely a discussion about that since the shooter doesn't seem to be a member of ISIS.  He's an American citizen that was clearly brainwashed by extremist propaganda and we'll have to see where he got all his weaponry.  A discussion could be had about radical extremists, but lets keep Infowars out of it, that's all I'm saying.  It's like having a talk about racism and using Stormfront.

[telly]

By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.

Personally, if I had a loved one who died in an attack like this, I wouldn't really give a damn why or what the killers' motive was. They'd still be dead, and it wouldn't change anything or help me feel better about what happened; it might make me feel worse. I certainly wouldn't want to watch a video on infowars about the event.

It's important to figure out the why at some point, but I think setting attention on details like that at this point in time really trivializes the pain and suffering that the victim's loved ones are going through.

[dreama1]

By you covering up the culprit motive of the deaths is a great disrespect to the lives lost. I care about innocent homosexual fellow Americans who lost their lives, by not discussing the obvious elephant in the room is ignoring the main issue.

Personally, if I had a loved one who died in an attack like this, I wouldn't really give a damn why or what the killers' motive was. They'd still be dead, and it wouldn't change anything or help me feel better about what happened; it might make me feel worse. I certainly wouldn't want to watch a video on infowars about the event.

It's important to figure out the why at some point, but I think setting attention on details like that at this point in time really trivializes the pain and suffering that the victim's loved ones are going through.

So the victims would rather it happen again and with someone elses kids once acceptance of the situation happens? The only solace anyone can have is such a tragedy never happens again with someone elses loved ones., and why the hell it even happened in the first place? Why do you think some victims of columbine do a lot of public speaking? It's so something so tragic never happens again and lives are saved. I'll tell you what will do absolutely nothing crying, and sentimentals and forgetting it a few minutes later. Rather than discussion.

[telly]

Let me.be perfectly clear. I'm not saying and have never said  we should never talk about why this happened: it's very important that we do. I just don't think it should be at the forefront of discussion at this time when we don't know everything about the situation. It breeds misunderstanding and misinformation, and any changes that are made moving forward may take a while to implement and should be evidence-based, not from speculation.

And also remember that people deal with grief in different ways. The priority should be with what the families and loved ones want, at least in my opinion. I imagine the victims will want answers, and they deserve them. But trying to dissect this when it hasn't even been 24 hours yet isn't wise. We need support and assessment of the situation, not an analysis.

[kamikazekeeg]

So the victims would rather it happen again and with someone elses kids once acceptance of the situation happens? The only solace anyone can have is such a tragedy never happens again with someone elses loved ones., and why the hell it even happened in the first place? Why do you think some victims of columbine do a lot of public speaking? It's so something so tragic never happens again and lives are saved. I'll tell you what will do absolutely nothing crying, and sentimentals and forgetting it a few minutes later. Rather than discussion.

Blind emotional rage when all the details aren't out there doesn't help anyone either.  We can't do this the day of the event happening as it mostly just comes down to a lot of group blaming with not a lot of concrete information.  This will be discussed for weeks and months to see about what what can be done to deal with this kind of stuff in the future, though it'll never go away.

[dreama1]

So the victims would rather it happen again and with someone elses kids once acceptance of the situation happens? The only solace anyone can have is such a tragedy never happens again with someone elses loved ones., and why the hell it even happened in the first place? Why do you think some victims of columbine do a lot of public speaking? It's so something so tragic never happens again and lives are saved. I'll tell you what will do absolutely nothing crying, and sentimentals and forgetting it a few minutes later. Rather than discussion.

Blind emotional rage when all the details aren't out there doesn't help anyone either.  We can't do this the day of the event happening as it mostly just comes down to a lot of group blaming with not a lot of concrete information.  This will be discussed for weeks and months to see about what what can be done to deal with this kind of stuff in the future, though it'll never go away.

As I said you're right, and I agree with you. We wait until the facts are clear.

[maximo310]

^ If you're really gonna stick to that, then don't make baseless assumptions.

[dreama1]

Let me.be perfectly clear. I'm not saying and have never said  we should never talk about why this happened: it's very important that we do. I just don't think it should be at the forefront of discussion at this time when we don't know everything about the situation. It breeds misunderstanding and misinformation, and any changes that are made moving forward may take a while to implement and should be evidence-based, not from speculation.

And also remember that people deal with grief in different ways. The priority should be with what the families and loved ones want, at least in my opinion. I imagine the victims will want answers, and they deserve them. But trying to dissect this when it hasn't even been 24 hours yet isn't wise. We need support and assessment of the situation, not an analysis.

Fine. But can't help but feel deja vu about this whole thing.

[dreama1]

^ If you're really gonna stick to that, then don't make baseless assumptions.

  Oh god. Don't look so surprised another shooting happened.  Assumptions, sure.. maybe, baseless assumptions I don't think so.

[marvelvscapcom2]

We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters.  Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is.  Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed.  The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything.  Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens. 

My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.

[dreama1]

We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters.  Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is.  Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed.  The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything.  Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens. 

My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.

Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.

[marvelvscapcom2]

We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters.  Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is.  Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed.  The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything.  Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens. 

My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.

Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.

Care to elaborate?   

Nihilism-  the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. (specify which part of my comment that was represented)

How did my statement even remotely connect to slavery or "speaking German" which I assume you mean WWII.  You do realize that a liberal was our president during the time of WWII correct? And slavery was ended by Abraham Lincoln, yet another liberal.  How can you speak against liberalism yet name 2 instances in American history where a liberal literally changed our nation for the better. It is hypocritical.  In fact if it weren't for liberalism (Political philosophy founded on liberty and equality and openness to change traditional values and idealogy)  their would still be slaves. Conservative ideology is the reason slavery lasted as long as it did.   Your rebuttal was all over the place and lacked elaboration to further the argumentation.

Conservative ideology is the cause for most wars. In fact conservative defined as followed (Holding onto traditional values often fearing or opposing change in regards to religion or politics) is ideology that consists of homophobia among others. Homophobia being One of the possible causes of THIS tragedy. So maybe you should save the B.S fear mongering, insensitive, conservative, info wars B.S for somewhere else. 

[dreama1]

We can't put people in a bubble like the way info wars wants us to. These times should always be of healing and coming closer rather than segregation. we cant start profiling the way Trump wants us to. Blaming all of islam for multiple isolated terrorist attacks. Is like blaming ALL white people for school shootings. Columbine, Sandy Hook, ect.. all white shooters.  Nothing productive comes from finger pointing or singling out an entire religion/race. At the end of the day. These things are unavoidable. And when they happen we just have to mourn and show respect for the families of the victims. As for preventing them from happening again, that is impossible unfortunately. It simply is.  Murders and genocide have happened since the beginning of man. Their will always be a psycho with a gun that wants to kill. All you can do is cherish your loved ones and never take life for granted. Because tommarow is never guaranteed.  The back and fourth debates will never accomplish anything.  Terrorism is impossible to stop. Especially considering it was an America citizen and most terrorist attacks in America are done by legal America citizens. 

My personal 2 cents is that if people were required to open carry a weapon. Everyone at these places would be armed and the terrorists would be killed before they could do as much killing as they do. But that Is neither here nor there and saying that doesn't bring back the victims nor does it make terrorists go away. So it is pointless.

Save the liberalistic bullshit, and nihilism for somewhere else please. If people took the same attitude you had we'd still have slave owners, and be speaking german at this point.

Care to elaborate?   

Nihilism-  the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless. (specify which part of my comment that was represented)

How did my statement even remotely connect to slavery or "speaking German" which I assume you mean WWII.  You do realize that a liberal was our president during the time of WWII correct? And slavery was ended by Abraham Lincoln, yet another liberal.  How can you speak against liberalism yet name 2 instances in American history where a liberal literally changed our nation for the better. It is hypocritical.  In fact if it weren't for liberalism (Political philosophy founded on liberty and equality and openness to change traditional values and idealogy)  their would still be slaves. Conservative ideology is the reason slavery lasted as long as it did.   Your rebuttal was all over the place and lacked elaboration to further the argumentation.

Conservative ideology is the cause for most wars. In fact conservative defined as followed (Holding onto traditional values often fearing or opposing change in regards to religion or politics) is ideology that consists of homophobia among others. Homophobia being One of the possible causes of THIS tragedy. So maybe you should save the B.S fear mongering, insensitive, conservative, info wars B.S for somewhere else.

Ad hominems, and quite a mouth full there. But lets see.

Classical liberalism. Not progressive liberalism. Anyway not really the best example someone who gave the go to make atomic bombs, and drop atomic bombs on Japan is it? , if it was wrong or not? Or someone who organised the bloodiest war in history to be fought on American soil by invading the south because of legal constitutional succession, that could of been resolved by other means? You're not giving the best examples exactly but okay. The slavery metaphor used before you drag it out any longer is because if no one acknowledged it was a major problem and to speak out against it, it would never have been resolved. That slave owners were a "problem" "Because it's offensive to slave owners to say such things" The Ideology we are facing today that hates our values in the west must also be acknowledged, and resolved and considered "problematic ". (They're not liberals!)

Oh.. why a proud nation that came close to greatness at one point became the laughing stock of the planet right now you manage to sum up in just one response incredibly. The liberalism you practice right now im afraid is fascism really with manners and rooted in marxism. Do as you please but maybe it's shock to you but islam is not a "LIBERAL" ideology. So please. The things we fought hard for in the past like fair treatment of woman, and fair treatment of homosexuals, the right to a fair trial, criticism of religion, religious freedom, and freedom of speech of course in the west. They do not tolerate any of the above. It's undisputed.  I'm not trying to offend you but ill speak bluntly about it it disgusts me that you surrender such hard fought values. The liberal muslim is "almost" none existent and less each day (and by the definition of the quran, not even a real muslim.)

"ideology that consists of homophobia among others" By the way that's very hateful of you to label conservatives as such its such typical liberal logic I don't even know how to respond to that, saying you're the one who wants to invite a religion/culture in "solidarity" that sees no problem having the death penalty for homosexuals you must be proud to have "solidarity" with such a none anti-liberal religion/culture, It didn't exactly spread by the word you know? Good job pissing on the gravestones, hope it was satisfactory.