VGCollect Forum
General and Gaming => General => Topic started by: marvelvscapcom2 on February 01, 2018, 02:51:29 pm
-
Hello everyone! :D. Today on facebook marketplace I stumbled onto an interesting debate many people were having with this seller. He was selling an Xbox One (standard version with dust) for 700 USD lol. Not so bad though because he said it came with 300 games. 300!!! Holy cow. I was estatic to see if I could negotiate and aquire such a set :). But than came to find the wool had been pulled over my eyes by yet another digital library guy. :(
I sat anxiously waiting for the pictures of the big beautiful green plastic stacks of current gen goodness but ending up getting cell phone shots of a TV screen with all those free games Xbox gives every month that he decided to download for 4 years and now he's trying to act like his Xbox comes with 300 "games". All completely digital games. Not an ounce of hard copy ;D. And part of my soul shattered :'(
I actually decided to argue with him a bit. I told him the digital games are not physical copies and that the Xbox's value isn't effected by digital media. He said he had spent over 3,000 dollars on the digital games. After a while of conversating with him he did the common "don't like it, don't buy it" so I left him alone and went on my way.
But it does bring up an interesting debate that sparked a huge 200+ comment argument on the marketplace. I started to think about it more and more and i'm starting to think maybe I was short sighted and the past of how gaming was corrupted how I thought of the here and now. I think maybe I was wrong. With games going in the direction of digital only so rapidly. Is someone selling their digital copies as an added bonus to their hardware really that far fetch'd? I wasn't the only one to give him a hard time about the digital games. So many people said they added no value. But how didn't they? Aren't they still games? :D.
What are your thoughts on selling digital games with your console in the future. Do they add value to your units for having them on the HDD? :D.
If so how much value do they add. How can we gauge it?
For example say you had a switch. With all the best games, 20+ amazing 1st party titles from Mario to Splatoon to Zelda and arms. All digital. But than you decided to sell the console. Would you post it for 250 or 2,500? All those amazing games are still on the SD. They still came out of your wallet and the buyer will still get to play them. Where do you stand on this debate? :D
-
Best that I know, Xbox games are tied to your account. If you delete the account off of your Xbox, poof, games are gone.
You don't really own digital games. There's no resale value if you ask me... which you did by starting a topic.
-
it will add value but not much just a mere fraction of what one would have spend on buying them games online in most cases even quite recently when the games are still expensive in wich case it will add more value if you picked the mainstream games that apply to many.
with your switch example you could get a couple hundred extra if you have the right buyer but only because it is fairly new. I'd say when something is new and you've got the good games that everyone wants 30 - 50% of the physical copy value. If you have crappy games it might add no value at all and ofcourse when things are not new anymore it will most likely barely add any value.
-
Soooooooo, I thought this was a topic about "Is the PS4 a good console because it has a large digital library" and I'm like "Duh, of course that affects the console's feasibility as a long term investment"... but that's not what you asked.
So... I'm gonna break this down... at least for myself.
Wii/Wii U, all downloads are tied to the system itself and not the user. So if you tried to sell me a Wii U and wanted over the going rate because it has Fatal Frame V, Smash Bros., and tons of VC and eshop games on the system, I might consider it, because that owner isn't going to be able to revoke those licenses. I bought a Wii from a lady for $5 and she left her netflix info on it. She can't do anything about that... it's how Netflix for Wii was designed... so she can't stop me from logging onto her account. I have my own Netflix account, and who uses a Wii for netflix... so it's not an issue.
360... Technically there are two licenses. One for the system and one for the owner's account. So in theory this could work, and the content could never be revoked if I never put the system on the network. But who does that? The seller could easily go to Xbox.com and do a content license transfer and I'd never see that content ever again. Close, but nope.
PS3... Licenses are granted to the activated systems. I'm not entirely certain that the seller would be able to deactivate that system after selling it to you. So that content is good on the system for any user on that system. 2 systems can be activated per account. So you and the seller could SHARE the content if they never tried to de-activate your system. Pretty sure you can deactivate the system remotely. So the seller could bone you.
X1... The content is granted to the user and the "home" console. All the user has to do is log onto another X1 system and set it as the "home" console and all your content is gone. REALLY easy process. Definitely easy for the seller to screw you.
PS4... Content is licensed to the activated PS4 and the user. User can use the content on any system, Any user can use the content on THAT system. Similar to 360. You can deactivate once every 6 months I believe. So the seller could bone you.
In most of these cases, if you are never going to go online, it's not a problem.
-
Even in the case of the Wii, if you ever deleted said software or it got corrupted, you wouldn't be able to get it back with a different account. So that's a very hard question to answer.
With PlayStation and XBox, no, it doesn't. Because it's tied to your account.
-
Ignition really hit the nail right on the head. it doesn't matter how many games are on the system if the original owner decides to be a dick. you could have 10,000 games downloaded onto a system and so long as the original owner still maintains any sort of link whatsoever to the account that purchased them then you can be completely fucked when it comes to buying it.
instantly I can think of 1 very real example. on ps3 you can remotely remove access to an account from a different system so someone could download say 200 games at a value of $1000 sell you the system with that account, give you the password, let you change the password to whatever you want, then after 1 month (whatever the term for filing a claim on e-bay/amazon/etc is) put in their forgotten password security info and change the password on you/revoke that ps3's account privledges making you loose every one of those games. at that point you cant even do anything about it.
so for me there is absolutely zero value in digital collections from a buying/selling standpoint.
-
There's also the fact that practically every company considers the selling of accounts to be against the ToS and a bannable offense, so the mere action of trying to sell the account runs the risk of making everything go poof.
Really, the only digital libraries that have any retained value are the ones where users can freely trade the items on the account, such as inventories for games like PUBG, CS:GO, or TF2.
-
One thing I just wanted to add that was a key part of it as some of mentioned here was the guy was also selling his account information and was willing to allow anyone to change it with him because others had mentioned how the account is linked to the games. He was basically allowing the buyer to change password and email and take over the account. :). He seemed pretty legit about it and wasn't too scammy. Not sure if he could still pull a fast one though.
-
you never truly own digital games! i downloaded doom on my 360 after a year or so i tried to play once and noticed the digital game i bought was deleted. their was a licensing problem with the company who owned the rights to doom so it was deleted. no one cares that you already paid for it.
-
It would be something more attractive to pick up but it would not raise the price any
-
One thing I just wanted to add that was a key part of it as some of mentioned here was the guy was also selling his account information and was willing to allow anyone to change it with him because others had mentioned how the account is linked to the games. He was basically allowing the buyer to change password and email and take over the account. :). He seemed pretty legit about it and wasn't too scammy. Not sure if he could still pull a fast one though.
im not necessarily saying the guy has bad intentions selling it im just saying that it is possible to scam people using this method. with all things there is a certain amount of trust required, even more when buying things for large amounts of money. not everyone is out to scam you but when you let your guard down you open yourself up to the possibility. I honestly do not recall how the XBone account setup went but IF EVERY SINGLE SETTING linking the previous owner to the account isn't changed it is 100% possible to get scammed. passwords can actually get reset MULTIPLE ways.
1. knowing the password (if you do not change it)
2. Owning access to the E-mail account linked to it. (typical password recovery)
3. Owning the phone number associated with the account. (getting text a temp password)
4. Knowing any/all of the security questions. (another typical password recovery option)
5. Having access to a master account. (would require it to be set up before hand, sort of the thing you would do with your kids accounts)
6. Owning an accepted photo I.D.. I shit you not I have called a company before because I did not know any of the account information for something I set up a long while back other than the user name. I got them to send me a temp password after I sent them a pic of myself holding my photo I.D., which had my full name and birth date, with a sticky note that said my user name.
Im sure I have even overlooked a readily available way to get it reset.
-
One thing I just wanted to add that was a key part of it as some of mentioned here was the guy was also selling his account information and was willing to allow anyone to change it with him because others had mentioned how the account is linked to the games. He was basically allowing the buyer to change password and email and take over the account. :). He seemed pretty legit about it and wasn't too scammy. Not sure if he could still pull a fast one though.
Of course he can- as noted above, he can use 'forgot account info' links to reestablish control. In theory, he could even tell Xbox he was hacked & get control back that way.
There is also the matter of:
1) If the buyer previously owned an Xbox One or 360, they may already have an established account and not want to use a second one for game access.
2) By taking on the account, you also take on liability for the previous owner's actions. You may just find yourself locked out of online play on one or more games becuase the guy broke TOS. Have fun trying to fix that one!
3) On the same note, you also assume the guy acquired the games legally. Find out later the games were hacked/cracked/bought on a stolen card? Too bad!
Basically, digital takes a huge amount of control away from the buyer- enough so to make attempting to buy 'used' digital content terribly risky. I sure as hell wouldn't pay a premium for digital content (although quite frankly, I won't buy a system used that's still available retail.)
-
you never truly own digital games! i downloaded doom on my 360 after a year or so i tried to play once and noticed the digital game i bought was deleted. their was a licensing problem with the company who owned the rights to doom so it was deleted. no one cares that you already paid for it.
That doesn't sound right. I've got plenty of games that've been delisted, but my account can still download them via the account's history.
-
He was selling an Xbox One (standard version with dust) for 700 USD lol. Not so bad though because he said it came with 300 games. 300!!! Holy cow. I was estatic to see if I could negotiate and aquire such a set :). But than came to find the wool had been pulled over my eyes by yet another digital library guy. :(
Wait...you thought this was a Xbox One with 300 Physical games for $700....and we were ready to negotiate? I thought gamestop was cheap.
-
I've seen people try and sell PS3 or Wii consoles for $600 on the justification that they were loaded with digital purchases. While I do think this does add some value to a console, it certainly does not equate to Mario Kart 64 digital = Mario Kart 64 physical price. In fact I'd argue that it might be worth 10% of what it's go for physically when calculating the value of digital items of a system. Technically digital games are worthless on the second hand market since no ownership has ever been transferred from the publisher to the buyer of the digital game in the first place.
-
If you would have a switch with mario odyssey or mario kart 8 deluxe on their I'm pretty sure it could add around 20 $ or a bit more each of value instead of a console with nothing. phsyical would hold more value and overtime downloadable content would add less and less value.
However during the beginning years with mainstream games it can still add a sizable chunk of value. 30 - to 60%
-
Well... I am a person that (almost) NEVER buy digital games because, as many people here have said, owning digital versions of games doesn't mean to really own them.
Having said that, I believe that having games downloaded to the console may add some value to it. For example, if the person has games such as Scott Pilgrim vs. The World or After Burner Climax, which are not available to purchase anymore and have never been (and will never be) available physically, I believe that it is fair asking for a little more when selling the console. Not so much though...
-
No, in my opinion. It's too risky and like others have already said it is too easy to rip someone off, and for example if you ever need to put a new harddrive or reset the console to factory shaped conditions unless you know
(for You to know)
1: Account Holders Current Password
2: Account Holders Current Username
3: Account holders Current Security Question or Date Of Birth
4: Account Holders Email and Email Password
(For the Seller to Know)
1: If You're The Seller who you sold it to someone and if you do provide the following. the one you sold it to could even have access to your credit card Information, your location, and even get your identity stolen by the person who knows these things. for the seller or the buyer this is not safe for either of you.
-
I'd say yes, but not much. Having a few games to play built in can make the purchase a little more worth it, but if you asked me whether buying something like this is generally a good idea i'd tell you no.
The chances you'll get all games you'd enjoy or wanted is incredibly miniscule; it could ultimately only be a small pile of games in there you're interested in playing. I think if you have a few hundred dollars to spare, you'd have a much better experience and get better value out of getting the system and a nice pile of games you've been eyeing, rather than blowing nearly a thousand dollars for a big grab bag of random stuff from the digital store.
And of course, if it has any you don't like..tough luck, you're screwed. Not getting any of that money back, like you could with physical games.
-
Question. In the scenario that you have laid out. The XB1 loaded with the free games that comes with gold. You have to be connected to XBL for those to function, correct? If it's an original XB1 those used are around what, $100 or so. It's a good way to get taken for an extra $600.
To answer your question though, No.
-
you never truly own digital games! i downloaded doom on my 360 after a year or so i tried to play once and noticed the digital game i bought was deleted. their was a licensing problem with the company who owned the rights to doom so it was deleted. no one cares that you already paid for it.
That doesn't sound right. I've got plenty of games that've been delisted, but my account can still download them via the account's history.
It isn't. I had bought Doom before that kerfluffle and deleted it without realizing that it had gone from the marketplace. I was able to just go back through my account purchase history and re-download it. Scott Pilgrim is still active on my 360 as is Turtles in Time Re-Shelled. Neither of which are on the marketplace anymore.
My son has deleted Scott Pilgrim and a number of other downloads from my console all of which I have just brought back via the purchase history. The only pain is figuring out which account, mine or the wife's that bought whichever game.
On a side note I haven't deleted Re-Shelled because I'm a contrarian. I bought the game on sale for $2 I think. It was $2 too much but since I parted with money, I refuse to delete it.
-
If servers are still up it doesn't matter. What happens when a company goes out of business? What about when an entire consoles online services are ended, like original Xbox Live, or the soon to be gone Wii Shop?
-
If servers are still up it doesn't matter. What happens when a company goes out of business? What about when an entire consoles online services are ended, like original Xbox Live, or the soon to be gone Wii Shop?
I do not get why people worry about this to much
You buy games online to play them right now, after some time has passed pretty much alle people including pretty much all the ones complaining here on the forums would probably not touch that particular online game again. People complaing that they would play a game after 10 years I highly doubt that would happen with the hundreds of online dowloaded games that some have.
There are far to many games and many people have a big back log anyways. off the games that have replay value in most cases the online ones are not one of them.
you pay for the experience at the time it has no resale value unless it is a mainstream game when the console is fairly new :o
As far as exclusive games go certain retro beat em ups you could probably at some point get a free rom of it and download it for play.
It's all in the mind since even the ones complaining would most likely not even play those games even if they were never gone when said company goes out of busniess or quits with there online services.
-
Yeah, I never got one people made such a fuss about that. I mean, I get it, it's an issue..but has it ever been such a problem that it's made digital games totally not a viable option? Have we heard horror stories about people companies shutting down and folks losing hundreds of dollars of games? Not really, because..usually such things happen long after everyone has moved on. Are most people just REALLY into wii shop right now and gonna be screwed over by it going down, even though it was honestly on way longer than it needed to be?
I get that digital games end much harder than physical games and that sucks, but chances are by the time you see that end you probably won't need them anymore. Everything ends eventually.
-
If servers are still up it doesn't matter. What happens when a company goes out of business? What about when an entire consoles online services are ended, like original Xbox Live, or the soon to be gone Wii Shop?
I do not get why people worry about this to much
You buy games online to play them right now, after some time has passed pretty much alle people including pretty much all the ones complaining here on the forums would probably not touch that particular online game again. People complaing that they would play a game after 10 years I highly doubt that would happen with the hundreds of online dowloaded games that some have.
There are far to many games and many people have a big back log anyways. off the games that have replay value in most cases the online ones are not one of them.
you pay for the experience at the time it has no resale value unless it is a mainstream game when the console is fairly new :o
As far as exclusive games go certain retro beat em ups you could probably at some point get a free rom of it and download it for play.
It's all in the mind since even the ones complaining would most likely not even play those games even if they were never gone when said company goes out of busniess or quits with there online services.
Oh yeah, nobody here, who collect and play old, retro games would ever revisit an old title...HA!
-
Oh yeah, nobody here, who collect and play old, retro games would ever revisit an old title...HA!
True but you would probably not buy it as a download in the first place as far as physical releases go. people who do so would probably give zero **** about it after the 5 to 10 years when it vanishes. you buy a download just for the experience to play it right now after many years pretty much no one and to be fair also the ones complaining would not replay them.
If your really that scared if a downloadable games vanished don't worry about it to much some guy probably placed a rom on the internet accesable to everyone for free somewhere in the future. Maybe there are some very great games on there that are worth it but than again like most retro games today they can just be played fully online or you could get a rom somewhere for the original console. Zero **** are given being said by a pretty above average collector.
So you bought doom on ps4 online big deal when that vanishes from your system after 10 years, just buy it physical for the 5$ - 10$ it goes for or probably some remaster on a newer console.
also as a personal note. I do replay games but usually the ones that are very solid or the ones with nostalgia, those download exclusives are not really notable ones if you would take physical library to be fair. Time is valuable and unless someone plays games as their full time job I highly doubt anyone would even realise that they would be missing something. It seems that people find it a waste of money when It's gone since they did spend money on it yet in reality even when it would always be there would probably not even bother to touch it after 5 years or more. it's just the mind that plays tricks on some in my opinion since eitherway the game would not be touched after such a time gap.
Than again I can understand that some find it annoying collectors wise I mean so many people list their downloadable games here on vg collect. I could imagine allot of people having a hard time to delist some downloadable items from their collection degrading their total collection item numbers ::)
What's next DLC listed as individual pieces of the collection ;D
edit: Some DLC pieces are already on vg collect I'm kinda shocked :o
Yeah, I never got one people made such a fuss about that. I mean, I get it, it's an issue..but has it ever been such a problem that it's made digital games totally not a viable option? Have we heard horror stories about people companies shutting down and folks losing hundreds of dollars of games? Not really, because..usually such things happen long after everyone has moved on. Are most people just REALLY into wii shop right now and gonna be screwed over by it going down, even though it was honestly on way longer than it needed to be?
I get that digital games end much harder than physical games and that sucks, but chances are by the time you see that end you probably won't need them anymore. Everything ends eventually.
My point Exactly
-
Yeah, I never got one people made such a fuss about that. I mean, I get it, it's an issue..but has it ever been such a problem that it's made digital games totally not a viable option? Have we heard horror stories about people companies shutting down and folks losing hundreds of dollars of games? Not really, because..usually such things happen long after everyone has moved on. Are most people just REALLY into wii shop right now and gonna be screwed over by it going down, even though it was honestly on way longer than it needed to be?
I get that digital games end much harder than physical games and that sucks, but chances are by the time you see that end you probably won't need them anymore. Everything ends eventually.
Things I have experienced over the years:
-Gamestop employees letting me buy NES games out of the employee hold drawer becuase they were discontinuing NES sales and hey, let's sell them to this girl becuase no one cares about these old games. Accquired Kid Icarus, Donkey Kong Classics, & Bubble Bobble, plus assorted others I've forgotten. Maybe $50?
-Was gifted a SNES & games from a friend who's mom was getting on her case for owning too many systems. And hey, let's given them to my weird friend who plays these old games no one cares about. Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Link to the Past, Mario RPG, EVO Search for Eden, Starfox, several others.
-Was gifted a massive pile of Dreamcast games from a co-worker who found them cleaning out old boxes & knew I played retro- and hey, I can give them to someone who'll actually use them, becuase no one cares about old games that I know except her. Shenmue 2, euro version, with boot disc.
-Had a Gamestop manager actually come out of the back to look at me when I went to buy my brother a used Gamecube for Christmas and requested a black one. When the clerk asked him to check, he didn't actually believe someone was there to buy one- becuase hey, no one cares about those old games.
My point is, saying no one should be upset over server shutdowns becuase no one cares about those old games has forgotten the lessons of the rise of the retro bubble. The lack of value I subscribe to digital content is due to the difficulty of keeping/recovering the content long term, not becuase the games themselves aren't worth having. Also- the reason no one's mad about losing hundreds of dollars in digital content is becuase we haven't had a major content provider go offline until now. Wii probably won't be the best case study for people's reaction to lost digital content, since wiiware wasn't heavily promoted. When the 360's shop goes away, that'll be the one to watch how people react when the nostaglia kicks in.
-
Yeah, I never got one people made such a fuss about that. I mean, I get it, it's an issue..but has it ever been such a problem that it's made digital games totally not a viable option? Have we heard horror stories about people companies shutting down and folks losing hundreds of dollars of games? Not really, because..usually such things happen long after everyone has moved on. Are most people just REALLY into wii shop right now and gonna be screwed over by it going down, even though it was honestly on way longer than it needed to be?
I get that digital games end much harder than physical games and that sucks, but chances are by the time you see that end you probably won't need them anymore. Everything ends eventually.
Things I have experienced over the years:
-Gamestop employees letting me buy NES games out of the employee hold drawer becuase they were discontinuing NES sales and hey, let's sell them to this girl becuase no one cares about these old games. Accquired Kid Icarus, Donkey Kong Classics, & Bubble Bobble, plus assorted others I've forgotten. Maybe $50?
-Was gifted a SNES & games from a friend who's mom was getting on her case for owning too many systems. And hey, let's given them to my weird friend who plays these old games no one cares about. Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Link to the Past, Mario RPG, EVO Search for Eden, Starfox, several others.
-Was gifted a massive pile of Dreamcast games from a co-worker who found them cleaning out old boxes & knew I played retro- and hey, I can give them to someone who'll actually use them, becuase no one cares about old games that I know except her. Shenmue 2, euro version, with boot disc.
-Had a Gamestop manager actually come out of the back to look at me when I went to buy my brother a used Gamecube for Christmas and requested a black one. When the clerk asked him to check, he didn't actually believe someone was there to buy one- becuase hey, no one cares about those old games.
My point is, saying no one should be upset over server shutdowns becuase no one cares about those old games has forgotten the lessons of the rise of the retro bubble. The lack of value I subscribe to digital content is due to the difficulty of keeping/recovering the content long term, not becuase the games themselves aren't worth having. Also- the reason no one's mad about losing hundreds of dollars in digital content is becuase we haven't had a major content provider go offline until now. Wii probably won't be the best case study for people's reaction to lost digital content, since wiiware wasn't heavily promoted. When the 360's shop goes away, that'll be the one to watch how people react when the nostaglia kicks in.
the digital library is pretty different especially the exclusive games on there.
These aren't big titles like fallout or witcher and as far as indi games go rehashes of older games there are plenty physical releases for new retro stuff on ps4 and eventually the other consoles there is way to much to choose from these days those few missing games are pretty pointless due to the massive amount of releases and limited time available.
Not to mention that with some hard work you could maybe even find scott vs the pilgrims online for pc illegaly but still with such
simple games roms are not a hard thing to extract on pc it will only get more easy as the time passes just like with pretty much all retro games today for those everdrive flash carts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FN8CmHq4RPo
Also as far as old console games go when people wanted to get rid of them, I have had some cheap dreamcast lots also years ago
but even the more recent ones with the better games in pretty much all cases when I met with such people they had nostalgia stories from the dreamcast and that it was such a different system and such different times when playing. They didn't use it to much anymore so they wanted to give it a good home with especially dreamcast I have not seen many other people with other consoles who did care still though selling it for cheap is pretty strange considering such facts than again even with the best deals it is not uncommon since most stuff in the 2nd hand market is pretty worthless.
-
Best that I know, Xbox games are tied to your account. If you delete the account off of your Xbox, poof, games are gone.
You don't really own digital games. There's no resale value if you ask me... which you did by starting a topic.
^ this.
I got burned by a guy on AtariAge by the handle JohnnyBlaze.
I paid $500 for a Zelda Edition WiiU CIB with a bunch of games about 3-4 years ago.
Only 3-4 of them were physical. All the rest were virtual console titles and digital purchases tied to his account.
When I bought it he first claimed they were tied to the console.
Stupid me, I didn’t look it up. I assumed it worked like the Wii.
When I got it and discovered it was tied to his account he said I was wrong.
Then finally he said I could have the account.
So I reset the password and everything was fine until one day I couldn’t sign in anymore.
Come to find out he changed his mind, then, reset the password again and I lost about 20 games instantly. All the castlevanias, Metroid games, mario, and more. Insta-gone.
I reached out to him on Atari Age he cursed up a storm about how I stole his account. I told him I wanted him to make up some of the lost games to me some how. He then completely disappeared from AA.
Digital purchases should never be assumed to transfer.
-
I was wondering about this very thing while buying Wii Points and doing last minute shopping on the Wii Shop Channel. At least with the Wii games are tied to the console and not an account.
I bought about 176 games, total spent was about $1,200. I have 1400 Wii Points left.
I was thinking that the console would be worth over $1,200 but only to me. To anyone else it would probably just be worth fair market value.
As an afterthought, I would be devastated if my Wii were to stop working or get stolen.