Author Topic: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021  (Read 80287 times)

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #180 on: July 14, 2020, 09:24:08 am »
If you put trade symbols into box text, you can see an "incorrect formatting" reject.
Also be aware that we can't see trade symbols (it shows a question mark) in the edit queue, so if we look at the text trying to be added and it looks like a trade symbol is present, we will do the reject.

The Namco Museum one I think I saw, had trade symbols after every name in the game list from the back cover.

telly

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #181 on: July 14, 2020, 10:00:44 am »
https://vgcollect.com/item/182496 - there are several games that were made with [LAT] in the name. Should it be changed to [MX]?
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Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #182 on: July 14, 2020, 10:29:56 am »
I see tripredacus has corrected my entries that said (LATAM) to (LAT), which reflects the latin america region. I will be putting LAT for future entries in brackets. LAT, is more accurate the MX for Mexico, as the LAT region entries included many other Spanish speaking countries besides just mexico, throughout central america.
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tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #183 on: July 14, 2020, 11:02:17 am »
[LAT] not (LAT)
make sure to use the brackets

Don't put [LAT] on games just to be lazy, if they are not actually general Latin America releases. In general, you should refrain from adding an entry if you do not know the correct information. There may well be a [MX] version and a [LAT] version, or that actual [LAT] versions do not exist but there is just one general "cover artwork" and each country had their own labelling. In that case, there should not be a [LAT] entry if it can be helped.

It seems not to be the case with Gran Turismo 6. It has the same release in both Mexico and Argentina... however I could not find a picture of a sealed copy.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 11:06:57 am by tripredacus »

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #184 on: July 14, 2020, 11:19:02 pm »
I have researched this area quite thoroughly and been looking at comparable titles between latin coutries. I can most reliably say when I have been placing [LAT] is it because multiple countries have had the same covers and I haven't seen different indicators on the cases, as variant examples of the same game. It is possible that other examples exist, but if that is the case, then stock for those items has been gone for many years. There is always some small element of uncertainty, because I was not looking at those other markets when the games originally released. However, with larger series such as Gran Turismo, we can reliably accept that large enough prints of certain games exist, and if one country still has a large amount left, then if another country were to have produced the game, some would likely also be left. There is some educated guessing involved as I can never say anything with absolute certainty. When making deductions like this, I continue to seek evidence to the contrary, and would update any listings if I found out otherwise.
PSX LEGACY

A Physical Chronicle of games for posterity.

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #185 on: July 15, 2020, 01:03:04 am »
If you put trade symbols into box text, you can see an "incorrect formatting" reject.
Also be aware that we can't see trade symbols (it shows a question mark) in the edit queue, so if we look at the text trying to be added and it looks like a trade symbol is present, we will do the reject.

The Namco Museum one I think I saw, had trade symbols after every name in the game list from the back cover.

To be clear, does this apply to the characters ®, ™, and ℠? I previously submitted some approved edits with some of those characters; should those entries be edited to remove the offending characters? Also, should those characters be omitted, or be transcribed in an ASCII-compatible manner (e.g. (R) (TM) (SM) )? Are there any other forbidden characters that I should avoid transcribing in the future?

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #186 on: July 15, 2020, 10:02:32 am »
Regarding [LAT] (and to be certain, psxlegacy posts [LAT] on the forum but still keeps putting (LAT) on items incorrectly), it should not be used as a guess. We do not want guesses in the database. It would be preferable to use actual country TLDs instead of a generic one. So with the Gran Turismo 6 option, [AR][MX] would be preferred over [LAT], or just [MX].

Trade symbols should not be put into box text unless there is a reason to do so. The only reason we currently have is to document variations, which is where the ℠ comes from, which is found in Sega Master System game variations.

Never use (R) in place of ® if you need to document this symbol in box text.

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #187 on: July 15, 2020, 10:12:17 am »
https://vgcollect.com/item/68823

Based on the Advanced style guide (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10837.msg177804.html#msg177804), pictures with the Obi + stickers take priority, so I submitted them, but they were rejected due to "Incorrect Box Art". Should they be resubmitted?

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #188 on: July 15, 2020, 10:16:30 am »
Regarding [LAT] (and to be certain, psxlegacy posts [LAT] on the forum but still keeps putting (LAT) on items incorrectly), it should not be used as a guess. We do not want guesses in the database. It would be preferable to use actual country TLDs instead of a generic one. So with the Gran Turismo 6 option, [AR][MX] would be preferred over [LAT], or just [MX].

Also, regarding this: We had this argument before, and all entries I submitted as [LAT] a few months ago were forced to be changed to [MX], assuming that all of Latin America was Mexico, even when the distribution text indicates all the countries where the product was available (see description on https://vgcollect.com/item/165225 and https://vgcollect.com/item/163233 for more details). Shouldn't we have a perfectly clear rule on the style guide itself?

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #189 on: July 15, 2020, 12:04:43 pm »
https://vgcollect.com/item/68823

Based on the Advanced style guide (https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10837.msg177804.html#msg177804), pictures with the Obi + stickers take priority, so I submitted them, but they were rejected due to "Incorrect Box Art". Should they be resubmitted?

Right, so I think i went through this one specifically. The reason it was rejected was not because it had obi strip, but it is the wrong version. From what I recall, the release with the blue labels are the regular edition and not the LE
https://vgcollect.com/search/advanced/54/%22phantasy%20star%22/no-filter/ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL/no-filter/no-filter/no-filter

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #190 on: July 15, 2020, 12:18:08 pm »
It comes down to us having had put [LAT] in the old TLD thread list at some point, so it is valid for us to use. But that being said, we shouldn't be using [LAT] if we don't have to. We should be using TLDs of confirmed countries where that specific version was sold, like we do for EU releases. What we don't want is a "guess" that the specific product is available in all Latin American countries without being able to confirm it. Because if any one of those countries actually has a release that uses an import label, then using [LAT] would become incorrect.

And just because a game case says that a game is able to be sold in a bunch of countries doesn't mean it actually is. As examples in the new guide where EU games with USK ratings aren't always sold in Germany or EU games with red Attention text isn't always sold in France. It is just that it is possible for them to be sold, at least as far as the official distribution or publisher is concerned. Or the example where NA releases with Frence/English/Spanish are sold in Latin America/Mexico but not in Canada. So basically we can't actually trust the box art completely.

Typically you can get confirmation of release countries by looking on those country's specific online classified sites, such as mercadolivre. You look for volume of a specific version vs others, as obviously we have a worldwide economy, versions from other regions can be bought and sold anywhere. But if a specific version appears more often than others, and that version is actually apparent to be released there, it is likely that it was sold there at retail. So using the GT6 example, we can make a safe bet that version was sold in Mexico and Argentina, but I did not go about and try to verify if it was sold in every country that the text on the case said it could be sold in.

So it comes down to how much work you want to put in. If you really want to dig through hours or research to confirm the info to verify all the appropriate TLDs or if [LAT] is appropriate, you can do it. But you aren't required. If you want to just confirm one or two, that's fine. Use [MX] or [AR][MX] or if you don't want to confirm any of it, maybe the item number is different on those versions and you can put that in as a descriptor instead. And then someone else can go about and do that research if they are so inclined.

In any case, we can use the description to note what the text says.

Regarding [LAT] (and to be certain, psxlegacy posts [LAT] on the forum but still keeps putting (LAT) on items incorrectly), it should not be used as a guess. We do not want guesses in the database. It would be preferable to use actual country TLDs instead of a generic one. So with the Gran Turismo 6 option, [AR][MX] would be preferred over [LAT], or just [MX].

Also, regarding this: We had this argument before, and all entries I submitted as [LAT] a few months ago were forced to be changed to [MX], assuming that all of Latin America was Mexico, even when the distribution text indicates all the countries where the product was available (see description on https://vgcollect.com/item/165225 and https://vgcollect.com/item/163233 for more details). Shouldn't we have a perfectly clear rule on the style guide itself?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 12:20:11 pm by tripredacus »

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #191 on: July 15, 2020, 12:23:24 pm »
Or how about this. How many games are we talking about that have this issue? How many platforms are there?
Is it just PS3 and PS4?
Is it more than 25 games per platform that have these [LAT] releases?

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #192 on: July 15, 2020, 12:28:02 pm »
Right, so I think i went through this one specifically. The reason it was rejected was not because it had obi strip, but it is the wrong version. From what I recall, the release with the blue labels are the regular edition and not the LE
https://vgcollect.com/search/advanced/54/%22phantasy%20star%22/no-filter/ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL/no-filter/no-filter/no-filter

The "Limited edition" was cancelled before release (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/phantasy-star-online-limited-edition-cancelled/1100-2646152/). The blue label says "PSO Network Usage Fee - 30 Days Free (See back for details)" and "Early Bonus - Sonic Adventure 2 Trial Version included".

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #193 on: July 15, 2020, 12:37:56 pm »
Or how about this. How many games are we talking about that have this issue? How many platforms are there?
Is it just PS3 and PS4?
Is it more than 25 games per platform that have these [LAT] releases?

Right now, from what I have here, is basically PS3 and PS4, all of them with box text in Spanish, ESRB ratings, a "latam" URI in the web address box (this can vary depending of publisher), and most important, a legal text indicating that is distributed in "Mexico, Central and South America", "The Americas", or a laundry list of Latin American countries (some newer games exclude Venezuela due to the US embargo). These are different from Brazilian releases (ESRB and/or ClassInd rating, text in Portuguese)

Nintendo games for Latin America (I have only one, but I've seen it for localised releases for Pokemon back in the day) end up with a -LTN (Also come with packaging in Spanish and ESRB rating).

tripredacus

Re: Error Listings and rejected edits 2021
« Reply #194 on: July 15, 2020, 12:46:34 pm »
Ok I have merged the two entries as a dupe. Remaining this:
https://vgcollect.com/item/68823
I changed the title.
You can upload the art to this entry.

I was unable to confirm that HDR-0142 existed. If we find out it exists later, it can be recreated.

Right, so I think i went through this one specifically. The reason it was rejected was not because it had obi strip, but it is the wrong version. From what I recall, the release with the blue labels are the regular edition and not the LE
https://vgcollect.com/search/advanced/54/%22phantasy%20star%22/no-filter/ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL/ALL/no-filter/no-filter/no-filter

The "Limited edition" was cancelled before release (https://www.gamespot.com/articles/phantasy-star-online-limited-edition-cancelled/1100-2646152/). The blue label says "PSO Network Usage Fee - 30 Days Free (See back for details)" and "Early Bonus - Sonic Adventure 2 Trial Version included".