Do You Collect to Play, or Do You Collect to Collect?

[turf]

Come on dude. You're really going to name call lol? Please do your research, Nintendo got took to court for the exclusive signing of 3rd party companies, it was currupt beyond belief. And it gave them control of the video game market share in NA 95% in the 80s that's why it was close to impossible for a new commer sega to break in they managed to take 5% of the market despite not being able to get any 3rd party support. This is pretty well documented. Read the book the rise and fall of sega it makes it pretty clear the very extent of how underhanded, and damn right criminal nintendo was. It's a fact not an opinion i'm afraid let's start being honest about it instead of revisioning how things played out back then because we are starting to see those pieces fall apart at nintendo today. So if your into this kind of thing it's important that the facts are clear. I'm not going to agree with you for the sake of agreeing. Konami was eventually forced to publish games on the snes again but the fall out in 1990 between konami and nintendo was pretty famous. One of the first games they were working on was burning force exclusive for genesis. Nintendo hasn't made an original game since the mid 90s why the Wii U is failure. You want to know why nintendo isn't on top anymore they gave there 3rd party support away on a silver plate after the snes.

I'm not name calling.  I was just letting you know.  I'm actually leaning toward this being your honest opinion.

I know Nintendo got sued a bunch in the late 80's.   How many of those cases did they lose?  Just because things are underhanded and morally wrong doesn't mean they are illegal.  Nintendo pretty much said, "If you make games for them, you can't make them for us".  Well, Nintendo had that huge install base.  Who would you have made games for?  These companies were in the same business as Nintendo: making money. 


I'm not a video game historian by any stretch of the imagination.  I haven't done my research. I don't know how the business side of late 80's video games went.   I've just been a fan of video games since I was a kid in the 80's.  I've had this same conversation on a playground about 1991.  "Nintendo is better."  "No, Sega is better."  I'm not trying to do that here.  I don't care who you think is better.  We're just going to have to agree to disagree. 

[90snostalga]

Come on dude. You're really going to name call lol? Please do your research, Nintendo got took to court for the exclusive signing of 3rd party companies, it was currupt beyond belief. And it gave them control of the video game market share in NA 95% in the 80s that's why it was close to impossible for a new commer sega to break in they managed to take 5% of the market despite not being able to get any 3rd party support. This is pretty well documented. Read the book the rise and fall of sega it makes it pretty clear the very extent of how underhanded, and damn right criminal nintendo was. It's a fact not an opinion i'm afraid let's start being honest about it instead of revisioning how things played out back then because we are starting to see those pieces fall apart at nintendo today. So if your into this kind of thing it's important that the facts are clear. I'm not going to agree with you for the sake of agreeing. Konami was eventually forced to publish games on the snes again but the fall out in 1990 between konami and nintendo was pretty famous. One of the first games they were working on was burning force exclusive for genesis. Nintendo hasn't made an original game since the mid 90s why the Wii U is failure. You want to know why nintendo isn't on top anymore they gave there 3rd party support away on a silver plate after the snes.

I've had this same conversation on a playground about 1991.  "Nintendo is better."  "No, Sega is better." 

So funny lol.  I remember those playground conversations.  You make me feel so old Turf  :'(

[Warmsignal]

The N64 is one of the worst post-video game crash consoles ever made. There isnt one legit RPG on the console (Dont get me started on paper mario as an RPG and tactical RPGs are as boring as the chess game they are modeled after) and its library of 296 games has about 50% of it consisting of sports and racing titles which is the gaming equivalent of landfill waste. The controller was made for a 3 armed alien and in the world of disks and games with massive space for massive content, it stuck with cartridges and limited the amount of content it could play on a single game. I will give the cartridge credit for its durability but thats as far as anything good that can be said about the N64.

That's a pretty hard knock at the racing genre. Racing games can be a lot of fun. I had a blast with San Fransisco Rush, Beetle Adventure Racing, Cruisin', and Mario Kart back in the day. Those are definitely not landfill waste. I guess if RPGS define gaming for you, then yeah, the N64 showed you no love. But, if you have a well rounded taste for other things, I don't see why you couldn't have a ton of fun with the N64. Action, Adventure, defining FPS titles, Platformers, Racing, Fighting (mostly in the form of Wrastlin') and stuff like that are covered well. No matter what label you give Paper Mario, I thought it was a great game (great series, in fact).

Does a console need to deliver on every genre before it's any good? Not really. Not if the games it does have are good, and well, superior to the competition's line up of the same games. There's some types of games I really like that are very poorly represented on the Saturn, but I still think it's a good console for what it does deliver on. If you are looking for something that has it all, PS1 was your safe bet. That doesn't mean it had the best games in every genre, so you can't really call it the best console just because it did have them. It's complicated, but the N64 was great, at least I think so.

I don't see how having a console 90% racing games can be defined as balanced. Racing games are fun but come on how many  racing games could you possibly wish to play unless your a car fanatic, or something then maybe that's great. Take away the RARE made games on n64 and then n64 looks like an atari jaguar.

If you want balance playstation 1 is the way to go for balance.
 
Please do enlightenment what types of games that are very poorly represented on the Saturn?

Considering there are about 36 (I think, I took the liberty of counting) racing games on the N64 out of 296 games, that's about 12% racing games. A bit small really, but most of the racing games on the N64 were some of the best for their time. I didn't argue the console was balanced, I argued that unbalanced didn't mean the console was bad because it delivered quite strong in some areas. How can you say it would look like the Jaguar? Come on now. You had Nintendo first party, you had Midway really hitting their stride, solid support from Hudson, SunSoft, Crave, Ocean, THQ delivering the finest wraslin' games of the era, Konami support was solid, lots of Lucas Arts love, the list goes on. It's kind of like asking "what is the PS1 without Square or Enix?" Well, it's still a lot of things, and bad is not one of them.

I'm speaking for the western Saturn. It poorly represents the same areas that the N64 delivers strongly on. Not completely absent, but poorly represented. 3D games in general, Action Adventure, FPS, 3D platforming (not even a true followup to Sonic 3), 3D racing, wrestling games, and don't bite my head off, but even RPGs are a rare breed on the western Saturn, 13 as appose to N64s 5.

You make it sound like it's alot but it doesn't add up to more than 20 worthwhile games today on the n64. shovelware would be the term. Saturn didn't have many rpgs but the rpgs it did have were quality over quantity you know atleast it had them. If the saturn had lasted longer they would of also got policenaunts, the dragon quest games, breath of fire, shin megami, grandia, lunar, mystaria 2, and blue breaker just to name a few. However what we did get was panzer dragoon saga anyone who has been through that game will tell you it's as good as FF7 if not better, and the only game to ever even begin to touch into what the saturn could do. Shining force 3, dragon force, legend of eldean etc.. And lastly it's quite a common misconception that the saturn was weak in 3d it's simply not the whole story.

I would argue that the majority of the games put out on N64 by the publisher's I mentioned are by no means shovelware. Most of them were games you just could not get anywhere else, and some of them really couldn't have been done, or done as well on other consoles.

The pinnacle of 3D gaming for the western Saturn was Tomb Raider and Croc and that's about it. They didn't look bad, but they were nearly unplayable because you had to use a d-pad to navigate. These types of games were to the Saturn, what RPGs were to the N64. Even though that bothers me, I still don't think the Saturn is bad, because it has other strengths.

[dashv]

Soera,

Thanks for the list of SMS games. I'll have to check a bunch of those out! Local shops here have tons of SMS games. I've seen some of the ones you mentioned. I just a few minutes ago picked up Ducktales 2 for the NES so my wife has cut off my access to the card for a while.

[dreama1]

Come on dude. You're really going to name call lol? Please do your research, Nintendo got took to court for the exclusive signing of 3rd party companies, it was currupt beyond belief. And it gave them control of the video game market share in NA 95% in the 80s that's why it was close to impossible for a new commer sega to break in they managed to take 5% of the market despite not being able to get any 3rd party support. This is pretty well documented. Read the book the rise and fall of sega it makes it pretty clear the very extent of how underhanded, and damn right criminal nintendo was. It's a fact not an opinion i'm afraid let's start being honest about it instead of revisioning how things played out back then because we are starting to see those pieces fall apart at nintendo today. So if your into this kind of thing it's important that the facts are clear. I'm not going to agree with you for the sake of agreeing. Konami was eventually forced to publish games on the snes again but the fall out in 1990 between konami and nintendo was pretty famous. One of the first games they were working on was burning force exclusive for genesis. Nintendo hasn't made an original game since the mid 90s why the Wii U is failure. You want to know why nintendo isn't on top anymore they gave there 3rd party support away on a silver plate after the snes.

I'm not name calling.  I was just letting you know.  I'm actually leaning toward this being your honest opinion.

I know Nintendo got sued a bunch in the late 80's.   How many of those cases did they lose?  Just because things are underhanded and morally wrong doesn't mean they are illegal.  Nintendo pretty much said, "If you make games for them, you can't make them for us".  Well, Nintendo had that huge install base.  Who would you have made games for?  These companies were in the same business as Nintendo: making money. 


I'm not a video game historian by any stretch of the imagination.  I haven't done my research. I don't know how the business side of late 80's video games went.   I've just been a fan of video games since I was a kid in the 80's.  I've had this same conversation on a playground about 1991.  "Nintendo is better."  "No, Sega is better."  I'm not trying to do that here.  I don't care who you think is better.  We're just going to have to agree to disagree.

So that's all you took away from what's been said lol? You liquidated it down as "he's just a sega fanboy" oh boy.. man it's like an atheist talking to someone about the bible. I actually prefer snes over genesis but up in arms if it's not utterly postive about nintendo. I was simply just pointing out the facts of how things played out calling me a troll because i'm not really fond of the notion of we must all praise nintendo like everything they touch turns to gold, and there perfect like they're above negative criticism. They saved video games bs but alright whatever suits you. I don't really agree to disagree and I think that's a complete cop-out. I think that somebody who rejects reason and evidence just saying, "well, let's just agree to disagree," as if I'm some crazy guy who doesn't take reason and evidence. I pointed out the facts... But alright 

[dreama1]

The N64 is one of the worst post-video game crash consoles ever made. There isnt one legit RPG on the console (Dont get me started on paper mario as an RPG and tactical RPGs are as boring as the chess game they are modeled after) and its library of 296 games has about 50% of it consisting of sports and racing titles which is the gaming equivalent of landfill waste. The controller was made for a 3 armed alien and in the world of disks and games with massive space for massive content, it stuck with cartridges and limited the amount of content it could play on a single game. I will give the cartridge credit for its durability but thats as far as anything good that can be said about the N64.

That's a pretty hard knock at the racing genre. Racing games can be a lot of fun. I had a blast with San Fransisco Rush, Beetle Adventure Racing, Cruisin', and Mario Kart back in the day. Those are definitely not landfill waste. I guess if RPGS define gaming for you, then yeah, the N64 showed you no love. But, if you have a well rounded taste for other things, I don't see why you couldn't have a ton of fun with the N64. Action, Adventure, defining FPS titles, Platformers, Racing, Fighting (mostly in the form of Wrastlin') and stuff like that are covered well. No matter what label you give Paper Mario, I thought it was a great game (great series, in fact).

Does a console need to deliver on every genre before it's any good? Not really. Not if the games it does have are good, and well, superior to the competition's line up of the same games. There's some types of games I really like that are very poorly represented on the Saturn, but I still think it's a good console for what it does deliver on. If you are looking for something that has it all, PS1 was your safe bet. That doesn't mean it had the best games in every genre, so you can't really call it the best console just because it did have them. It's complicated, but the N64 was great, at least I think so.

I don't see how having a console 90% racing games can be defined as balanced. Racing games are fun but come on how many  racing games could you possibly wish to play unless your a car fanatic, or something then maybe that's great. Take away the RARE made games on n64 and then n64 looks like an atari jaguar.

If you want balance playstation 1 is the way to go for balance.
 
Please do enlightenment what types of games that are very poorly represented on the Saturn?

Considering there are about 36 (I think, I took the liberty of counting) racing games on the N64 out of 296 games, that's about 12% racing games. A bit small really, but most of the racing games on the N64 were some of the best for their time. I didn't argue the console was balanced, I argued that unbalanced didn't mean the console was bad because it delivered quite strong in some areas. How can you say it would look like the Jaguar? Come on now. You had Nintendo first party, you had Midway really hitting their stride, solid support from Hudson, SunSoft, Crave, Ocean, THQ delivering the finest wraslin' games of the era, Konami support was solid, lots of Lucas Arts love, the list goes on. It's kind of like asking "what is the PS1 without Square or Enix?" Well, it's still a lot of things, and bad is not one of them.

I'm speaking for the western Saturn. It poorly represents the same areas that the N64 delivers strongly on. Not completely absent, but poorly represented. 3D games in general, Action Adventure, FPS, 3D platforming (not even a true followup to Sonic 3), 3D racing, wrestling games, and don't bite my head off, but even RPGs are a rare breed on the western Saturn, 13 as appose to N64s 5.

You make it sound like it's alot but it doesn't add up to more than 20 worthwhile games today on the n64. shovelware would be the term. Saturn didn't have many rpgs but the rpgs it did have were quality over quantity you know atleast it had them. If the saturn had lasted longer they would of also got policenaunts, the dragon quest games, breath of fire, shin megami, grandia, lunar, mystaria 2, and blue breaker just to name a few. However what we did get was panzer dragoon saga anyone who has been through that game will tell you it's as good as FF7 if not better, and the only game to ever even begin to touch into what the saturn could do. Shining force 3, dragon force, legend of eldean etc.. And lastly it's quite a common misconception that the saturn was weak in 3d it's simply not the whole story.

I would argue that the majority of the games put out on N64 by the publisher's I mentioned are by no means shovelware. Most of them were games you just could not get anywhere else, and some of them really couldn't have been done, or done as well on other consoles.

The pinnacle of 3D gaming for the western Saturn was Tomb Raider and Croc and that's about it. They didn't look bad, but they were nearly unplayable because you had to use a d-pad to navigate. These types of games were to the Saturn, what RPGs were to the N64. Even though that bothers me, I still don't think the Saturn is bad, because it has other strengths.

What about burning rangers, resident evil, deep fear, alien trilogy, exhumed, quake, hexen, doom, nights into dreams, VF2, FV, duke nukem 3d, virtua on, die hard arcade, die hard trilogy, decathlete/athlete Kings, winter heat, sonic racing, etc. man I could go on all day listing the 3d games and these are just the ones to make it west. It's like you picked up your saturn at a bargain bin with couple crappy games, and never looked at it again. There's plenty of good 3d games if you look.

[dashv]

I have an N64 that was given to me by a guy from church who married someone that made him give up video games.

To date I've barely played it. I was given to me with 007, Star Fox 64, Perfect Dark, Star Wars Episode 1 Racers, and I picked up a copy of Lego Racers for $5.

My son loves lego racers. I tried perfect dark but didn't really see what all the hype was about. At some point I'll play Star Fox and maybe pick up Super Mario 64.

I think the obsession with "3D" really hurt the games of the time. They certainly don't age well on modern day HD TVs. N64 and Playstation 1 look pretty terrible. NES, SNES, and Genesis hold up much better.

[kamikazekeeg]

I have an N64 that was given to me by a guy from church who married someone that made him give up video games.

To date I've barely played it. I was given to me with 007, Star Fox 64, Perfect Dark, Star Wars Episode 1 Racers, and I picked up a copy of Lego Racers for $5.

My son loves lego racers. I tried perfect dark but didn't really see what all the hype was about. At some point I'll play Star Fox and maybe pick up Super Mario 64.

I think the obsession with "3D" really hurt the games of the time. They certainly don't age well on modern day HD TVs. N64 and Playstation 1 look pretty terrible. NES, SNES, and Genesis hold up much better.

Super Mario 64, Diddy Kong Racing, Mario Kart, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, those are some of the top games to check out.  Some of my absolutely favorite games.  There's other good ones too on the system.

[dashv]

I have Ocarina of time for Game Cube. I got it when I preordered Zelda Wind Waker.

[kamikazekeeg]

I have Ocarina of time for Game Cube. I got it when I preordered Zelda Wind Waker.

I have it on N64 in the box, that version which comes with the Master Quest addition, and I'll eventually own it on 3DS lol

[dashv]

I have Ocarina of time for Game Cube. I got it when I preordered Zelda Wind Waker.

I have it on N64 in the box, that version which comes with the Master Quest addition, and I'll eventually own it on 3DS lol

Nice! The Game Cube disk I have has either master quest or Majora's Mask. I don't remember.

[90snostalga]

Soera,

Thanks for the list of SMS games. I'll have to check a bunch of those out! Local shops here have tons of SMS games. I've seen some of the ones you mentioned. I just a few minutes ago picked up Ducktales 2 for the NES so my wife has cut off my access to the card for a while.

If your new to playing SMS games Dashy, I would personally highly recommend Golvellious.  For me personally, when I first got the game like a year or 2 ago maybe, I played it and at the very first part I was like , "yea this game sucks" but I gave it just little time to get to the first boss and I slowly started enjoying the crap out of the game!     By the time I got to the end and beat it, I was very very amazed and happy.  To me, one of the best games I've played from the 8 and 16 bit era.  Most may not agree, but I think it's under rated.  Also, if you are a fan of Rampage, I think the SMS version is the best port available.  But those are just my 2 cents on some SMS games

[dashv]

Soera,

Thanks for the list of SMS games. I'll have to check a bunch of those out! Local shops here have tons of SMS games. I've seen some of the ones you mentioned. I just a few minutes ago picked up Ducktales 2 for the NES so my wife has cut off my access to the card for a while.

If your new to playing SMS games Dashy, I would personally highly recommend Golvellious.  For me personally, when I first got the game like a year or 2 ago maybe, I played it and at the very first part I was like , "yea this game sucks" but I gave it just little time to get to the first boss and I slowly started enjoying the crap out of the game!     By the time I got to the end and beat it, I was very very amazed and happy.  To me, one of the best games I've played from the 8 and 16 bit era.  Most may not agree, but I think it's under rated.  Also, if you are a fan of Rampage, I think the SMS version is the best port available.  But those are just my 2 cents on some SMS games

I'll have to check out Golvellious. I used to be a fan of Rampage until I overplayed it on the NES. Decided I was going to beat it one day ended up falling asleep of boredom from the repetition about 3 hours in. killed it for me. my son would probably get a kick out of it though.

[argyle]

*sees interesting topic on collecting games, wants to reply but gets slammed at work for 2 days*

*returns 2 days later, thread is now about Sega vs Nintendo*

  

Aaaaanyway...    I primarily collect with the intention of playing.  How's that?    I don't go for complete system collections, but I DO go for complete genre collections on certain systems - RPGs, to be exact.  And I really would like to play the majority of them.  Guess that's the problem with your favorite genre of games also being typically the longest games.  But I chip away so I don't feel TOO bad. 

And like someone else said, people collect many other things without "using" them, so I don't see the problem with buying the occasional game that I have no intention of ever playing.  It's foolish to judge what someone else chooses to do with their money anyway. 

And I have no "dog in the fight" with Nintendo vs Sega.  I grew up on Nintendo systems so I am much more familiar with them and there's a ton of nostalgia for me with those old systems.  That said, I think of myself as a gamer anomaly.  Many people seem to collect for the NES, and many of them weren't alive when it was a thing.  My first console was an Atari 2600 (well... a pong machine if you want to be technical) and I very clearly remember the NES era.  But I have no interest in going back & playing those old games beyond the occasional "hey, I remember this" 5-minute play.  I don't collect for cartridge-based systems period really, outside of portables.  I got my PSX after college, so obviously my PS2 was several years after that and it's the console I enjoy collecting for the most.  For me, it has not only the single best library of my favorite genre, RPGs, but it also has a ton of variety and quirky games that I love.  And the majority of them hold up very well today. 

[burningdoom]

I think we got our first big fanboy on VGCollect, guys.