Do You Collect to Play, or Do You Collect to Collect?

[turf]

I'm going to respond to these one at a time.  So, bare with me.

Yeah but more doesn't mean better, and it never will. Neither does brand recognition. More people  probably know who snooki is than george washington today.. It really depends how you define progression 16 bit renditions of 8 bit games have been miserable failures sometimes the graphics couldn't even save them. But some however bloomed into playable games like super castlevania the jumping in the later stages was no longer broken like in the NES game, and it was more fun. But this is besides the point.

Better is really subjective.  Is it a hard fact that Super Mario Bros. is better than Alex Kidd?  I don't think so.  Would most people think Super Mario Bros is better than Alex Kidd? I would say so.
I'd like to know which games your talking about when you say, "16 bit renditions of 8 bit games have been miserable failures".  Any game I can think of that was on the SNES that was a sequel an NES game was more than just a graphic upgrade. 

You're in North America right? how many games came out for SMS in NA like 5 or something compared to europe, and brazil lol? I wouldn't even say NA even got a crumb of what the SMS could do. It was already dead in the water before it even landed there thanks to nintendo's illegal business practises on exclusive publishing rights on the NES. Sega took them to court on it but by then the SMS already dead. Konami is still pissed off about it today why they jumped ship to sega genesis as soon as they could.

The SMS was "dead in the water" because very few people bought it.  I don't there was anything illegal about Nintendo's businesses practices.  It may have been shitty, but it wasn't illegal. 
I don't think Konami is "still pissed off about it today".  They have made games for every Nintendo console (except maybe the WiiU, but I'm not sure about that).  In fact, they made more games for the SNES than they did the Genesis.

And those games half of them you mention are not even in house nintendo games. If fate played slightly different the SMS could of had mega man, castlevania, and a bunch more of the games you mention at the drop of a hat. And they would of been much better at that on SMS. Lastly I never did like that mario he was always to damn slow, and his jumping was terrible if it was any other game people would complain about the jumping but it's like oh it's ok it's mario. Super mario world fun a little, but well come on it's babies game it's designed for like 2 year old, some respect for mario 3 I guess.. Much rather play the superior Alex kid, or sonic at that.

I didn't say those games were in house Nintendo games.  I said some great series got their start on the NES.  The could have, would have, should have you're saying here doesn't really work.  Those games didn't come out on the SMS.  If they did, people might love (or remember) the SMS; but the fact is, they didn't. 
If you think Mario is too slow and the jumping is bad, don't play it.  Go enjoy your Blast Processing.  I'll stick with my baby games.

It's only become painfully apparant now how empty nintendo was, and is when it comes to games. They lived, and died by it's 3rd party support. Why the drought of games on N64, and gamecube onwards is still present to this day.

I don't really know how you can say Nintendo depended on 3rd party support.  They have the strongest 1st party properties of any company.  They are still around because people love Nintendo games. 

I can't really decide if you're a troll or you really mean all of this.  If you're sincere, everyone has a right to an opinion, even if it's different than mine.  If you're trolling, this bunch will run you off in a hurry.  If I haven't said it yet, welcome to the site.

[bikingjahuty]

All the N64 hate makes me sad . Despite having no RPGs on it really, it is still my favorite Nintendo console of all time.

[soera]

My Master System Converter and quest for a working Sega CDX are irrational desires since I really don't have any "must have" games in my wish list for those systems.

Ill take that converter off your hands then! Ive been looking for one for months but the prices are absurd.

Soera, mine is a Power Base Mini from Stone Age Gamer. It was on sale for $20 when I got it but now goes for $35. The downside is 3d glasses and card based games do not work with it. The upside is it's made from all brand new components so it should last a long time.

I own Double Dragon for the SMS just so I have something to test it with. But I am researching the SMS library to find other games I _should_ own now that I have it.

http://www.stoneagegamer.com/powerbase-mini.html

Ill start you with my personal SMS list. Alex Kidd in miracle world (arguably the best game on the system period), Alien Syndrome (not as good as the actual arcade version but its acceptable), Astro warrior (pretty generic shmup but has a fun level in it), Basketball nightmare (coolest 8 bit B-ball game ever), Dragon crystal (an okay rpgish game), Fantasy zone (very weird shmup), Forgotten worlds (a decent arcade port although it really should have had 2 player option like the arcade), Golden axe warrior (not a Zelda clone but a Zelda superior), Golvellius (quirky little adventure title), Miracle warriors (a very disliked by most rpg but I found it endearing enough that its where my screen name comes from), Ninja Gaiden (superior version than the NES), Phantasy star (simply put the best 8 bit RPG without question), Power strike (another decent shooter but kind of costly to find), R-Type (my personal favorite shmup ... love the upgrade options), RC Grand prix (not as good as RC Pro-am but still entertaining), Rampage (an okay arcade port but gets boring), Rocky (a short but memorable boxing game), Sonic (no need to mention anything about this other than do not get caught up in the US UPC issue), Space harrier (no idea what genre this is called but its a pretty accurate port of the arcade game and can be kind of fun ... there is also a 3D version), Time soldiers (Ikari warriors wanna be but has better upgrades of weapons), Ultima IV (vastly superior version of Quest of the avatar), Wonder boy III (neat little adventure title), Ys the vanished omen (Book I of Ys ... not as visibly amazing as the Turbo Duo and definitely missing book II but its fun enough alone) and Zillion (sort of the Metroid of the SMS).

[soera]

All the N64 hate makes me sad . Despite having no RPGs on it really, it is still my favorite Nintendo console of all time.

I dont hate on anyone that loves the N64. Im sure there are plenty of people that dont like the crap I do but thats just personal taste. I simply compare N64 to PS1 (same generation) and its by far and away the biggest gap in consoles ever to me.

[90snostalga]

My Master System Converter and quest for a working Sega CDX are irrational desires since I really don't have any "must have" games in my wish list for those systems.

Ill take that converter off your hands then! Ive been looking for one for months but the prices are absurd.

Soera, mine is a Power Base Mini from Stone Age Gamer. It was on sale for $20 when I got it but now goes for $35. The downside is 3d glasses and card based games do not work with it. The upside is it's made from all brand new components so it should last a long time.

I own Double Dragon for the SMS just so I have something to test it with. But I am researching the SMS library to find other games I _should_ own now that I have it.

http://www.stoneagegamer.com/powerbase-mini.html

Ill start you with my personal SMS list. Alex Kidd in miracle world (arguably the best game on the system period),

Really?  Do you think Alex Kidd is better than Golvellious?

[dreama1]

I'm going to respond to these one at a time.  So, bare with me.

Yeah but more doesn't mean better, and it never will. Neither does brand recognition. More people  probably know who snooki is than george washington today.. It really depends how you define progression 16 bit renditions of 8 bit games have been miserable failures sometimes the graphics couldn't even save them. But some however bloomed into playable games like super castlevania the jumping in the later stages was no longer broken like in the NES game, and it was more fun. But this is besides the point.

Better is really subjective.  Is it a hard fact that Super Mario Bros. is better than Alex Kidd?  I don't think so.  Would most people think Super Mario Bros is better than Alex Kidd? I would say so.
I'd like to know which games your talking about when you say, "16 bit renditions of 8 bit games have been miserable failures".  Any game I can think of that was on the SNES that was a sequel an NES game was more than just a graphic upgrade. 

You're in North America right? how many games came out for SMS in NA like 5 or something compared to europe, and brazil lol? I wouldn't even say NA even got a crumb of what the SMS could do. It was already dead in the water before it even landed there thanks to nintendo's illegal business practises on exclusive publishing rights on the NES. Sega took them to court on it but by then the SMS already dead. Konami is still pissed off about it today why they jumped ship to sega genesis as soon as they could.

The SMS was "dead in the water" because very few people bought it.  I don't there was anything illegal about Nintendo's businesses practices.  It may have been shitty, but it wasn't illegal. 
I don't think Konami is "still pissed off about it today".  They have made games for every Nintendo console (except maybe the WiiU, but I'm not sure about that).  In fact, they made more games for the SNES than they did the Genesis.

And those games half of them you mention are not even in house nintendo games. If fate played slightly different the SMS could of had mega man, castlevania, and a bunch more of the games you mention at the drop of a hat. And they would of been much better at that on SMS. Lastly I never did like that mario he was always to damn slow, and his jumping was terrible if it was any other game people would complain about the jumping but it's like oh it's ok it's mario. Super mario world fun a little, but well come on it's babies game it's designed for like 2 year old, some respect for mario 3 I guess.. Much rather play the superior Alex kid, or sonic at that.

I didn't say those games were in house Nintendo games.  I said some great series got their start on the NES.  The could have, would have, should have you're saying here doesn't really work.  Those games didn't come out on the SMS.  If they did, people might love (or remember) the SMS; but the fact is, they didn't. 
If you think Mario is too slow and the jumping is bad, don't play it.  Go enjoy your Blast Processing.  I'll stick with my baby games.

It's only become painfully apparant now how empty nintendo was, and is when it comes to games. They lived, and died by it's 3rd party support. Why the drought of games on N64, and gamecube onwards is still present to this day.

I don't really know how you can say Nintendo depended on 3rd party support.  They have the strongest 1st party properties of any company.  They are still around because people love Nintendo games. 

I can't really decide if you're a troll or you really mean all of this.  If you're sincere, everyone has a right to an opinion, even if it's different than mine.  If you're trolling, this bunch will run you off in a hurry.  If I haven't said it yet, welcome to the site.

Come on dude. You're really going to name call lol? Please do your research, Nintendo got took to court for the exclusive signing of 3rd party companies, it was currupt beyond belief. And it gave them control of the video game market share in NA 95% in the 80s that's why it was close to impossible for a new commer sega to break in they managed to take 5% of the market despite not being able to get any 3rd party support. This is pretty well documented. Read the book the rise and fall of sega it makes it pretty clear the very extent of how underhanded, and damn right criminal nintendo was. It's a fact not an opinion i'm afraid let's start being honest about it instead of revisioning how things played out back then because we are starting to see those pieces fall apart at nintendo today. So if your into this kind of thing it's important that the facts are clear. I'm not going to agree with you for the sake of agreeing. Konami was eventually forced to publish games on the snes again but the fall out in 1990 between konami and nintendo was pretty famous. One of the first games they were working on was burning force exclusive for genesis. Nintendo hasn't made an original game since the mid 90s why the Wii U is failure. You want to know why nintendo isn't on top anymore they gave there 3rd party support away on a silver plate after the snes.

[burningdoom]

I think the N64 was the weakest console that generation between N64, PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast; too. (Obviously it was better than 3DO or Jaguar, though)

For me, it was the controller that really killed it for me. It's just awkward to use between the "M" shape of it, and the super-sensitive thumbstick. And I felt PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast all had better game-libraries for my personal taste.

I still own an N64 and play it, though. I don't think it's a bad console, just not as good as the other ones. I didn't own one when it was current, though.

[dreama1]

I think the N64 was the weakest console that generation between N64, PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast; too. (Obviously it was better than 3DO or Jaguar, though)

For me, it was the controller that really killed it for me. It's just awkward to use between the "M" shape of it, and the super-sensitive thumbstick. And I felt PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast all had better game-libraries for my personal taste.

I still own an N64 and play it, though. I don't think it's a bad console, just not as good as the other ones. I didn't own one when it was current, though.

But dreamcast wasn't from that generation..

[burningdoom]

I've been over the whole console wars thing for a long-time. I play games I like, regardless of console. Some consoles have more games I like than others, but there are very few consoles I've played that I can't find a few games I like on, at least.

I think GameSpot's Legacy Board really killed any left-over SNES vs. Genesis feelings I might have had still. Some guys on there were rabid Sega fans or rabid Nintendo fans.

[burningdoom]

I think the N64 was the weakest console that generation between N64, PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast; too. (Obviously it was better than 3DO or Jaguar, though)

For me, it was the controller that really killed it for me. It's just awkward to use between the "M" shape of it, and the super-sensitive thumbstick. And I felt PS1, Saturn, and Dreamcast all had better game-libraries for my personal taste.

I still own an N64 and play it, though. I don't think it's a bad console, just not as good as the other ones. I didn't own one when it was current, though.

But dreamcast wasn't from that generation..

Technically, no. But it was kind of an in-betweener console. It shared a whole lot more games with PS1 & N64 than it did PS2 or Xbox.

[dreama1]

My Master System Converter and quest for a working Sega CDX are irrational desires since I really don't have any "must have" games in my wish list for those systems.

Ill take that converter off your hands then! Ive been looking for one for months but the prices are absurd.

Soera, mine is a Power Base Mini from Stone Age Gamer. It was on sale for $20 when I got it but now goes for $35. The downside is 3d glasses and card based games do not work with it. The upside is it's made from all brand new components so it should last a long time.

I own Double Dragon for the SMS just so I have something to test it with. But I am researching the SMS library to find other games I _should_ own now that I have it.

http://www.stoneagegamer.com/powerbase-mini.html

Ill start you with my personal SMS list. Alex Kidd in miracle world (arguably the best game on the system period), Alien Syndrome (not as good as the actual arcade version but its acceptable), Astro warrior (pretty generic shmup but has a fun level in it), Basketball nightmare (coolest 8 bit B-ball game ever), Dragon crystal (an okay rpgish game), Fantasy zone (very weird shmup), Forgotten worlds (a decent arcade port although it really should have had 2 player option like the arcade), Golden axe warrior (not a Zelda clone but a Zelda superior), Golvellius (quirky little adventure title), Miracle warriors (a very disliked by most rpg but I found it endearing enough that its where my screen name comes from), Ninja Gaiden (superior version than the NES), Phantasy star (simply put the best 8 bit RPG without question), Power strike (another decent shooter but kind of costly to find), R-Type (my personal favorite shmup ... love the upgrade options), RC Grand prix (not as good as RC Pro-am but still entertaining), Rampage (an okay arcade port but gets boring), Rocky (a short but memorable boxing game), Sonic (no need to mention anything about this other than do not get caught up in the US UPC issue), Space harrier (no idea what genre this is called but its a pretty accurate port of the arcade game and can be kind of fun ... there is also a 3D version), Time soldiers (Ikari warriors wanna be but has better upgrades of weapons), Ultima IV (vastly superior version of Quest of the avatar), Wonder boy III (neat little adventure title), Ys the vanished omen (Book I of Ys ... not as visibly amazing as the Turbo Duo and definitely missing book II but its fun enough alone) and Zillion (sort of the Metroid of the SMS).

Import from europe. It's like comparing pc engine to turbografx. No games in NA. Check my list

[Warmsignal]

The N64 is one of the worst post-video game crash consoles ever made. There isnt one legit RPG on the console (Dont get me started on paper mario as an RPG and tactical RPGs are as boring as the chess game they are modeled after) and its library of 296 games has about 50% of it consisting of sports and racing titles which is the gaming equivalent of landfill waste. The controller was made for a 3 armed alien and in the world of disks and games with massive space for massive content, it stuck with cartridges and limited the amount of content it could play on a single game. I will give the cartridge credit for its durability but thats as far as anything good that can be said about the N64.

That's a pretty hard knock at the racing genre. Racing games can be a lot of fun. I had a blast with San Fransisco Rush, Beetle Adventure Racing, Cruisin', and Mario Kart back in the day. Those are definitely not landfill waste. I guess if RPGS define gaming for you, then yeah, the N64 showed you no love. But, if you have a well rounded taste for other things, I don't see why you couldn't have a ton of fun with the N64. Action, Adventure, defining FPS titles, Platformers, Racing, Fighting (mostly in the form of Wrastlin') and stuff like that are covered well. No matter what label you give Paper Mario, I thought it was a great game (great series, in fact).

Does a console need to deliver on every genre before it's any good? Not really. Not if the games it does have are good, and well, superior to the competition's line up of the same games. There's some types of games I really like that are very poorly represented on the Saturn, but I still think it's a good console for what it does deliver on. If you are looking for something that has it all, PS1 was your safe bet. That doesn't mean it had the best games in every genre, so you can't really call it the best console just because it did have them. It's complicated, but the N64 was great, at least I think so.

I don't see how having a console 90% racing games can be defined as balanced. Racing games are fun but come on how many  racing games could you possibly wish to play unless your a car fanatic, or something then maybe that's great. Take away the RARE made games on n64 and then n64 looks like an atari jaguar.

If you want balance playstation 1 is the way to go for balance.
 
Please do enlightenment what types of games that are very poorly represented on the Saturn?

Considering there are about 36 (I think, I took the liberty of counting) racing games on the N64 out of 296 games, that's about 12% racing games. A bit small really, but most of the racing games on the N64 were some of the best for their time. I didn't argue the console was balanced, I argued that unbalanced didn't mean the console was bad because it delivered quite strong in some areas. How can you say it would look like the Jaguar? Come on now. You had Nintendo first party, you had Midway really hitting their stride, solid support from Hudson, SunSoft, Crave, Ocean, THQ delivering the finest wraslin' games of the era, Konami support was solid, lots of Lucas Arts love, the list goes on. It's kind of like asking "what is the PS1 without Square or Enix?" Well, it's still a lot of things, and bad is not one of them.

I'm speaking for the western Saturn. It poorly represents the same areas that the N64 delivers strongly on. Not completely absent, but poorly represented. 3D games in general, Action Adventure, FPS, 3D platforming (not even a true followup to Sonic 3), 3D racing, wrestling games, and don't bite my head off, but even RPGs are a rare breed on the western Saturn, 13 as appose to N64s 5.

[Bwigdahl]

All the N64 hate makes me sad . Despite having no RPGs on it really, it is still my favorite Nintendo console of all time.

There's only really one person in here hating on the N64, and apparently everything else Nintendo has ever done... I have so many good memories with the 64, it's just that my love for the SNES and that the Gamecube had a bit more variety in its games make the 64 my least favorite from nintendo, but still fun. I personally think the N64 could've been so much better had they not focused solely on the 3D aspect. I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I wish there were more games on 64 that had the SNES feel but with better graphics/sound etc... A few 2D games mixed in there would've done a lot for the console imo.

[90snostalga]

I have some kind of love for all those systems.  SMS, NES, SNES, Saturn, Genesis, Dreamcast, N64, PS1...There is good and bad to all those consoles when it comes to games.  At least for me it is.  There is at least 5 days on all those systems I would love to play and at least 5 that I personally think are horrible.  I do think a system is horrible if it does not have 100 good games to play.  I dont think there is a system that has 50 games or more I want to play.  But everyone likes each system for their own personal reasons. 

This thread seems to have gotten way out of hand.  Lets respect each others opinions and realize everyone has different taste and thats fine.  Now back to why we collect...

[dreama1]

The N64 is one of the worst post-video game crash consoles ever made. There isnt one legit RPG on the console (Dont get me started on paper mario as an RPG and tactical RPGs are as boring as the chess game they are modeled after) and its library of 296 games has about 50% of it consisting of sports and racing titles which is the gaming equivalent of landfill waste. The controller was made for a 3 armed alien and in the world of disks and games with massive space for massive content, it stuck with cartridges and limited the amount of content it could play on a single game. I will give the cartridge credit for its durability but thats as far as anything good that can be said about the N64.

That's a pretty hard knock at the racing genre. Racing games can be a lot of fun. I had a blast with San Fransisco Rush, Beetle Adventure Racing, Cruisin', and Mario Kart back in the day. Those are definitely not landfill waste. I guess if RPGS define gaming for you, then yeah, the N64 showed you no love. But, if you have a well rounded taste for other things, I don't see why you couldn't have a ton of fun with the N64. Action, Adventure, defining FPS titles, Platformers, Racing, Fighting (mostly in the form of Wrastlin') and stuff like that are covered well. No matter what label you give Paper Mario, I thought it was a great game (great series, in fact).

Does a console need to deliver on every genre before it's any good? Not really. Not if the games it does have are good, and well, superior to the competition's line up of the same games. There's some types of games I really like that are very poorly represented on the Saturn, but I still think it's a good console for what it does deliver on. If you are looking for something that has it all, PS1 was your safe bet. That doesn't mean it had the best games in every genre, so you can't really call it the best console just because it did have them. It's complicated, but the N64 was great, at least I think so.

I don't see how having a console 90% racing games can be defined as balanced. Racing games are fun but come on how many  racing games could you possibly wish to play unless your a car fanatic, or something then maybe that's great. Take away the RARE made games on n64 and then n64 looks like an atari jaguar.

If you want balance playstation 1 is the way to go for balance.
 
Please do enlightenment what types of games that are very poorly represented on the Saturn?

Considering there are about 36 (I think, I took the liberty of counting) racing games on the N64 out of 296 games, that's about 12% racing games. A bit small really, but most of the racing games on the N64 were some of the best for their time. I didn't argue the console was balanced, I argued that unbalanced didn't mean the console was bad because it delivered quite strong in some areas. How can you say it would look like the Jaguar? Come on now. You had Nintendo first party, you had Midway really hitting their stride, solid support from Hudson, SunSoft, Crave, Ocean, THQ delivering the finest wraslin' games of the era, Konami support was solid, lots of Lucas Arts love, the list goes on. It's kind of like asking "what is the PS1 without Square or Enix?" Well, it's still a lot of things, and bad is not one of them.

I'm speaking for the western Saturn. It poorly represents the same areas that the N64 delivers strongly on. Not completely absent, but poorly represented. 3D games in general, Action Adventure, FPS, 3D platforming (not even a true followup to Sonic 3), 3D racing, wrestling games, and don't bite my head off, but even RPGs are a rare breed on the western Saturn, 13 as appose to N64s 5.

You make it sound like it's alot but it doesn't add up to more than 20 worthwhile games today on the n64. shovelware would be the term. Saturn didn't have many rpgs but the rpgs it did have were quality over quantity you know atleast it had them. If the saturn had lasted longer they would of also got policenaunts, the dragon quest games, breath of fire, shin megami, grandia, lunar, mystaria 2, and blue breaker just to name a few. However what we did get was panzer dragoon saga anyone who has been through that game will tell you it's as good as FF7 if not better, and the only game to ever even begin to touch into what the saturn could do. Shining force 3, dragon force, legend of eldean etc.. And lastly it's quite a common misconception that the saturn was weak in 3d it's simply not the whole story.