Author Topic: Timeless games that still hold up today?  (Read 11163 times)

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #30 on: October 09, 2014, 11:45:29 am »
Lots of the 2600 library is still eminently playable today. Games don't have to be "modernish" to hold up well. A good game is a good game from any period. Someone mentioned chess. Sure not a video game but the thread title didn't specify video games so technically an excellent answer to the question. 

I said "modernness." 

To an eye looking back, some of these games can feel very modern in setting, style, and set-up.  For instance, one of the DnD games on the Intellivision is a first-person dungeon crawler with surprisingly modern elements, all from an era where 3-D movement didn't really exist. 

The most important part, I think, is control.  If the game controls in a way that a modern gamer will instantly recognize and be able to adapt to, it feels as though it could be a modern game--that's timeless, that "ages" well because, in a large part, it may get older, but it doesn't actually age.   

I mentioned Galaga because it still feels fresh and modern--shmups prior to Galaga feel dated and archaic.  Space Invaders is slow and clunky.  Galaxian is just slow.  But Galaga nailed the speed of attacks, the intensity of the gameplay, and the smooth, solid controls.

I don't think its the modern feel.  I just think fun is fun is fun.  If you have fun with a game, it's a good game.  If a game is amazing because of some technical advancement, the fun may not be there when the shiny new wears off.

That's just my 2 cents.  That's why Galaga, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bros. are all still fun. 

I say "modern" referring to how game design evolves.  Some things are no longer really acceptable--like random deaths, or trial-and-error gaming, or chunky controls.  "Modern" game design requires a certain level of smoothness and precision in general game controls, modern game design tends to educate the player without resorting to bad trial-and-error gameplay concepts, and the like. 

Granted, there are a lot of modern games that fail at this, and they tend to be viewed thusly. 

Galaga's gameplay largely still feels modern, or could work in a new, contemporary game. 

Galaga feels like any other modern, well-respected, easily playable shmup.  It's play, it's flow, it's control.  Essentially, Galaga was the first modern shmup, in my opinion.  That's why it still holds up today.  Control-wise, having gimmicks, and a weapon upgrade--these things add to it.  Granted, weapon upgrades in shmups have grown and changed and the like through the years, so the way Galaga does it's upgrade is archaic, but that it feels like an Easter Egg probably helps it.

I agree that a fun game is still fun, but I'm going into the why of that, because that is extremely interesting to me.  It's something I've thought about a lot, analyzed a lot.  Why is such-and-such game still so relevant, still so fresh and/or playable, while such-and-such from fifteen years later feels so old and dated? 

A great way to see examine this is to compare Galaga to Galaxian.  Galaxian has aged horribly, and feels like a bizarre stop-gap between Space Invaders and Galaga, which it is.  I could, for example (personally) go from Ikaruga to Galaga, and be able to transition well and find the experience still totally relevant.  Going from Ikaruga to Galaxian is not so smooth.  It's aged poorly.

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2014, 11:54:49 am »
Super Mario World 2 : Yoshi's Island, A Link to the Past, Daytona USA(arcade version), Street Fighter II, Final Fantasy 6 or 7, Chrono Trigger, and Castlevania :Symphony of the Night
The baby is annoying dude you put it above super mario world?
The baby noise is not too bad, I think it adds to the game. Beside the slightly minor flaw, everything else in that game is great, and it looks and plays wonderfully as well.  So far none of its sequels have even come close to this masterpiece.

I read an article online once about how Yoshi's Island (SMW2) is such a perfect game that it should be used in game design classes. 

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2014, 03:01:13 pm »
Big Rigs  8)

turf

PRO Supporter

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2014, 03:08:04 pm »

I agree that a fun game is still fun, but I'm going into the why of that, because that is extremely interesting to me.  It's something I've thought about a lot, analyzed a lot.  Why is such-and-such game still so relevant, still so fresh and/or playable, while such-and-such from fifteen years later feels so old and dated? 


That's a good question.  If you figure that out, you'll be a rich man. 

I don't really think there is a formula for fun.  It's a combination of all the pieces of the game meshing with the wants and expectations of the player.

Why do I think Super Mario Bros is fun?  I don't know.  I just like it. 


burningdoom

PRO Supporter

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2014, 04:09:10 pm »
Regarding playing Atari games today:

As a person who infinitely appreciates retro stuff, and as a long time gamer I can confidently say that Atari games DO NOT hold up well if you weren't there at the time. I wasn't there at the time. But I bought an Atari 2600 and a bunch of games because I am interested in the history of video games. But no matter how hard I try to like them, those utterly simplistic games just can't hold my attention for more than like 15-20 minutes at a time.

And it's not a graphics thing, it's a gameplay thing. The gameplay is so simplistic and repetitive, that it gets boring very quickly for me. The sound doesn't help things much, either. Sound isn't a make a break thing on a console, but dang there are some unholy sounds that come out of that machine.

dreama1

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2014, 04:43:10 pm »

I agree that a fun game is still fun, but I'm going into the why of that, because that is extremely interesting to me.  It's something I've thought about a lot, analyzed a lot.  Why is such-and-such game still so relevant, still so fresh and/or playable, while such-and-such from fifteen years later feels so old and dated? 


That's a good question.  If you figure that out, you'll be a rich man. 

I don't really think there is a formula for fun.  It's a combination of all the pieces of the game meshing with the wants and expectations of the player.

Why do I think Super Mario Bros is fun?  I don't know.  I just like it.
That's like saying I don't know GOD DID IT! But seriously I'm sure I can take a few guesses to why you likrf it; the bright colours, the superb level design, the music, the controls, the personality etc..
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 04:46:57 pm by dreama1 »


Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2014, 04:57:50 pm »

I agree that a fun game is still fun, but I'm going into the why of that, because that is extremely interesting to me.  It's something I've thought about a lot, analyzed a lot.  Why is such-and-such game still so relevant, still so fresh and/or playable, while such-and-such from fifteen years later feels so old and dated? 


That's a good question.  If you figure that out, you'll be a rich man. 

I don't really think there is a formula for fun.  It's a combination of all the pieces of the game meshing with the wants and expectations of the player.

Why do I think Super Mario Bros is fun?  I don't know.  I just like it. 

Ha, for now, I'll be fine with recognized for quality game development.  We just need to get this first one to lotcheck and we'll have our solid start.  Hopefully.

I shall maintain my stern studying of the "why" and "how" of quality game design versus terrible or lackluster game design.  We're at a point in development that our game is solid and we have a ton of variety based around a simple concept, but we've played and tested it so much, I wondered if we can still tell if it's fun.  Another guy assured me that the game is indeed fun, we've just stared at it for too long, and hopefully didn't make it too challenging.

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2014, 05:04:56 pm »
Perhaps you're letting your nostalgia cloud your judgement because when people talk retro it's either NES or beyond because atari has aged terribly. I don't often hear anyone who wasn't there during the atari games say "i'm going to crack out the old atari" when they talk retro. Half the reason why atari games are worthless for the most part besides a few exceptions.

There's an entire website full of people who would disagree with you - www.atariage.com

If it was nostalgia only I wouldn't still be playing these games. I've said numerous times that nostalgia gets you there but gameplay keeps you there. Arcade games especially from the 70's and 80's are my passion and the 2600 has some excellent ports from that period and the homebrew scene on the system continues to astonish me. In fact the homebrew scene is very large and thriving. Not bad for a console you consider "worthless"



 

turf

PRO Supporter

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #38 on: October 09, 2014, 05:09:00 pm »

I agree that a fun game is still fun, but I'm going into the why of that, because that is extremely interesting to me.  It's something I've thought about a lot, analyzed a lot.  Why is such-and-such game still so relevant, still so fresh and/or playable, while such-and-such from fifteen years later feels so old and dated? 


That's a good question.  If you figure that out, you'll be a rich man. 

I don't really think there is a formula for fun.  It's a combination of all the pieces of the game meshing with the wants and expectations of the player.

Why do I think Super Mario Bros is fun?  I don't know.  I just like it. 

Ha, for now, I'll be fine with recognized for quality game development.  We just need to get this first one to lotcheck and we'll have our solid start.  Hopefully.

I shall maintain my stern studying of the "why" and "how" of quality game design versus terrible or lackluster game design.  We're at a point in development that our game is solid and we have a ton of variety based around a simple concept, but we've played and tested it so much, I wondered if we can still tell if it's fun.  Another guy assured me that the game is indeed fun, we've just stared at it for too long, and hopefully didn't make it too challenging.

Good luck to you and your team.  What platform is your game going to be on?  If you want, tell us about it.  Give me the salesman pitch.  ;)  I'm honestly curious.


Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2014, 05:57:07 pm »
Yoshi's Island hands-down best game ever.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 06:51:44 pm by badATchaos »

davifus

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2014, 06:05:09 pm »
Superman 64

The Guy Game
"Hard work betrays none, but dreams betray many." ( Hachiman Hikigaya)
"People say nothing's impossible, but I do nothing everyday." (Winnie The Pooh)


dreama1

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #41 on: October 09, 2014, 07:21:57 pm »
Perhaps you're letting your nostalgia cloud your judgement because when people talk retro it's either NES or beyond because atari has aged terribly. I don't often hear anyone who wasn't there during the atari games say "i'm going to crack out the old atari" when they talk retro. Half the reason why atari games are worthless for the most part besides a few exceptions.

There's an entire website full of people who would disagree with you - www.atariage.com

If it was nostalgia only I wouldn't still be playing these games. I've said numerous times that nostalgia gets you there but gameplay keeps you there. Arcade games especially from the 70's and 80's are my passion and the 2600 has some excellent ports from that period and the homebrew scene on the system continues to astonish me. In fact the homebrew scene is very large and thriving. Not bad for a console you consider "worthless"

Most of them in there 30s, and 40s demographic most likely who grew up in those short atari years. How many of them actually sit down and play the atari rather than just let it collect dust is questionable. Yes you're right the homebrew scene is reasonablly big but I would hardly say the homebrew scene is for timeless playability rather than a collectors show piece for bragging rights.  Seriously how long is someone going to sit down and play halo atari for presuming that don't have epilepsy yet. I'm guessing to make an educated guess not very long, or any atari game outside activisions quality standard, and some of the atari in house games. Why exactly do you think atari crashed and burned? Because the games were terribly repetitive even then and had no lasting appeal as a whole even worse so than the NES relying on nothing but pac man, space invader clones, and brand name to sell. Christ even the atari top CEO at the time a little time towards there demise said quote We could put shit inside a cartridge and it would sell a million copies" If you want my opinion the intellivision held up far better than atari ever had, in just about every way possible except for controls, and they were just getting started.

The argument was which games are timeless and still hold up today not if they have a fan site, or if it had good ports for about 3 months maybe, or had historic significance, or if they had a homebrew scene. Why does it even need a homebrew scene every few months, or even matter if the games were timeless? People wouldn't need to try and remember. It's irrelevant, if it was timeless it wouldn't need life support to try and stay relevant today. It's nothing but a show piece, and people showing there programing skills for a high price. When people will ask for a game to be brought back today on there console I assure you even the wildest answers it won't be an atari game mentioned they killed every last ounce of dignity they had with the atari jaguar, or anything in between for that matter. If they proved anything it's nostalgia doesn't make a good game, and it never will.


Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #42 on: October 09, 2014, 08:04:54 pm »
That was quite a wild ramble but it's meaningless because it's clear you hate the system and games from that era. You see only the bad in the system but none of what made Atari one of the greatest home gaming systems ever.
You are correct that the topic is games that are timeless and by your own statement earlier in the thread, when you weren't getting the answers you wanted, when people were giving valid answers like Galaga, Tetris and Breakout, you dismissed those answers and you felt you needed to clarify with the mangled expression of "modernish". It's obvious that you personally don't find those early games timeless or valid today. Again, many people do. Your personal opinion on what is timeless when it comes to video games is irrelevant. You don't speak for everyone, and I doubt you even speak for a majority. Many lists of top games of all times are going to include games from that era whether you like it or agree with it.

The thread was about games that are timeless, not games that are timeless for YOU so please stop acting like a petulant child when you don't get the answers to a thread you created that was ambiguous and completely open to interpretation to being with.

pacpix

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2014, 08:58:50 pm »
At the end of the day what makes a game timeless is whether the game is fun or not.  I was born a year after the N64 came out, but I still enjoy playing Atari 2600, Odyssey 2, etc.  It's unfair to dismiss an entire generation of gaming just because you personally do not enjoy that era.  I also found the homebrew comment to be puzzling as the homebrew community is a great example of how strong the Atari fanbase still is today.
Currently Playing: Dark Souls: Remastered (Switch)


burningdoom

PRO Supporter

Re: Timeless games that still hold up today?
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2014, 09:14:45 pm »
Just to be clear, I was writing my personal feelings on the 2600, I wasn't saying there's anything wrong with you if you like it.