Collection Specific Badges

[forte]

So in addition to being a member here, I am also a member at NintendoAge. They have a different system for their badges that I think we should consider adding in addition to our "games in collection" method - collection specific badges.

I've noticed a lot of people on this site do more than collect console types, we collect specific series: Mega Man, Final Fantasy, Zelda, Mario, Pac Man, Harvest Moon, etc. I think it would be cool if we could get badges for having complete collections for our series. Granted, this would have to be moderator approved with photographic evidence, but it would be nice if we could show off our loyalty.

This would require a set of guidelines as to what counts as a "complete collection". NA, for example, allows greatest hits and certain re-releases to replace original titles, but doesn't allow compilations. For example, I could not use Mega Man Anniversary Collection to replace Mega Man 1-8 in my collection list (honestly, I would count this as a game in the collection on its own. NA doesn't recognize them at all). I could, though, count a greatest hits release of Mega Man X4 in place of a black label, or a Mega Man 8 PS1 instead of a Mega Man 8 Sega Saturn. It should probably be limited to NTSC/UC releases. NA doesn't count "obscure" items, for example Mega Man 2 for Tiger LCD or Zelda for CD-i. I think there's something to be said for collecting the obscure titles, and would like to see that as part of our criteria, but that's up for discussion.

Any thoughts, suggestions, comments are appreciated.

[madmax]

I agree with Forte. I really like the idea. It kind of gives you that little something more to aim towards.

A set of guidelines could be set in place, a list or something of the likes? I think the difficulty for me is releases. Things like Final Fantasy have been rereleased so many times that it's really easy to get them all.

Also does a complete collection only include complete items (CIB) or can you just have a bunch of carts/CDs sitting in a box...

[scott]

I like that idea too. I'm glad someone is offering up suggestions on new badges, since the only ones I've come up with currently are all for site related stats. One of the badges I have in my notebook is related to genres. But it's also directly linked to the user stats pages (which is completely broken and unfinished). But the general idea was that if your collection stat's have top genre listed as "RPG" then you'd get an RPG badge, if it's Platformer, then you'd get a Platformer badge and so on. The problem is, we still haven't implemented the new genre list yet and the finishing the stats page is low on the totem pole that is matt's to-do list. So that's out for now.

A set of guidelines could be set in place, a list or something of the likes? I think the difficulty for me is releases. Things like Final Fantasy have been rereleased so many times that it's really easy to get them all.

Re-relreases is kinda a hard decision, which I'm not sure how to handle at the moment. The collector in me thinks that since it's a badge for a complete series collection, we'd prolly have to limit it to original and GH releases. Compilations and possibly special re-releases wouldn't count. Meaning things like Final Fantasy IV and Dragon Quest IV on DS wouldn't count as Final Fantasy IV on SNES and Dragon Warrior IV on NES. The other side of the coin is, that my copy of Dragon Quest IV now seems illegitimate from a collection standpoint. Naturally this reasoning would also exclude downloaded versions from XBLA, PSN and Wii's VC from complete collections. Of course, this could be a bad thing for folks like foxhack who have tons of games on Steam, unless we count digital versions of newly released games as part of the collection too as an exemption. Now if we are going for a full [NA] release list, then the compilations would just be another slot to fill in the list. Making the Final Fantasy series that much harder to attain, since you'd have to own all those versions of Final Fantasy 1 NES - PSP...

How would variants be handled? Would you need to own every single variation of the game, just to say you've completed the series? I think that's possibly getting a little too hardcore. Sort of like the CIB/Loose discussion (see below)

We'd also need to take into consideration spin off games. How would we handle these, as far as what is/isn't included in the complete collection? I get the Tiger LCD handheld games and the like possibly wouldn't count toward the list, I'd prolly count the Zelda CD-i games as part of a Zelda collection. Where would games like Dragon Quest Heroes: Rocket Slime, Final Fantasy Tactics? Chocobo Dungeon? Dissidia? Obviously Forte considers the spin off titles part of his Mega Man collection. Just like Castlevania: Judgment isn't part of the main series, yet it was imperative that I add that pile of poo to my collection. haha

One thing about compilations counting toward badges. Certain series have compilations of games which were never released in the States prior to that point, a good example is Gradius IV, it never recieved a release in the States until the Gradius III & IV set came out for PS2. Or Gradius Gaiden and Gradius II which never saw release until the Gradius Collection was released for PSP. These would need to be exemptions to the rule, since you can't get them separate.

Also does a complete collection only include complete items (CIB) or can you just have a bunch of carts/CDs sitting in a box...

For example, let's look at my Castlevania collection, as far as I am aware I own every Castlevania game that was released in North America (not counting variants). All but 2 of the Game Boy games, 1 SNES game and the 2nd N64 game are boxed. If we allowed for boxed and loose concurrently, then I would be granted the "Castlevania Collector" badge. Now, if we include all spin off games, I own Castlevania: Judgment but I am missing Kid Dracula on Game Boy, so I would need to track that down to reattain the badge. Now, if we were to say "CIB only or gtfo", this game is retardedly hard to find complete. I've always said that all that matters to me is finding a nice loose copy, just to round out the collection. If we required CIB games only, this would rob me from my "Collector" badge, even though I feel as if I've completed the set just by owning the cart.

I think for the sake of ease and in fairness for everyone, we would prolly just allow either CIB or loose and not worry about needing each variation. Some folks don't care about boxes, books, label color/ art, # of screws, etc and it only matters to them if they own an original copy of each game loose. This would allow the kids that aren't the hardest of the hardcore to get access to the "Collector" badge for their series. I know I have certain series I want to finish off and don't want to go CIB for the older games, a few examples are the Metal Gear and Dragon Quest series. As long as I snag the NES games loose I'm fine with it.

Make sense?

(holy crap that took almost 2 hrs to write!)

[scott]

I'm trying to brainstorm a list of franchises that I've noticed folks on here collecting. I'll post what I have later on and we can build off of it.

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. Of course, @matt will hate us all for it.

[madmax]

OK. I think spinoffs should be included (FF tactics) and they hold the final fantasy title. Things like kingdom hearts are not really final fantasy games.
Compilations should be included.
We don't differentiate between GH and black label.
Either CIB or loose is fine.
What about regions? Although we have a majority of [NA] in here we do have some [EU].

also complete console collections should be a thing.

As for proof. Ask for a picture. If the complete collection has a really rare game (NES), maybe ask for photoproof of that specific game too.

[scott]

CIB or Loose versions are fine and Variants/GH versions count towards their slot. Without the need to own each one making it more casual collector friendly. I agree that spin offs count as long as they are titled with the series moniker. Spin offs also would only count if they were console/pc releases. Making it so things like a Tiger LCD of Mega Man III, unneeded for completion.

Should compilations be included as another slot to fill?

I think we would have to separate regions though. So we would have something like Complete [NA], Complete [JP] etc. If we glommed all of the regions together That would make badges unattainable for a lot of folks.

I think we could automate the whole thing, the user would just need to add the games to their collection. IF someone wanted to "cheat" for a badge, then they'd still have to add games they don't own to their collection, so the only person they are really hurting is themselves, because their collection on site would no longer be accurate.

[tpugmire]

How about a badge when you have a certain percentage of the games in a series, rather than having to own every single title? Something like 75%

[scott]

How about a badge when you have a certain percentage of the games in a series, rather than having to own every single title? Something like 75%

You read my mind, I thought about this same thing last night... but forgot about it. It makes much more sense than filling out the whole list. Maybe have 2 badges. One for "in progress" and one for "complete"

[matt]

@matt will hate us all for it.

Already do. ha.

Actually it's a great idea and I'll let you all hammer out the details for now. My immediate task is to fix the existing badge bugs.

[scott]

Already do. ha.

/evilgrin

If we go for the 75% threshold, that'll make things a bit simpler. We could list everything in the series, compliations and re-releases included. Possibly still count variants and collector's editions as one.

[tpugmire]

I don't think that having 2 badges is necessary.   I figure that if someone has 75% of the Castlevania games, they get a badge that says "Castlevania fan" or something along those lines.  Also, if it makes things easier, we could have these collection badges manually added by the staff, rather than have to code it to automatically pop up.

[scott]

True.

[foxhack]

... I'm sorry, but I don't like this idea.

scott already mentioned my main issue with this. There are LOTS of variants, too many platforms to track. It would just be a headache. Sure, it's easier over at NintendoAge since they keep tabs on a single company. They stick to the Nintendo stuff.

So, vote against. If you do implement it then eh. It doesn't affect me.

I'd prefer to use a manually added "Fan" badge like tpugmire mentioned above. For example, I'd get an SNK fan badge for liking SNK.

[forte]

I'm not sure about having a "% of completion" badge, because a badge should be awarded for an actual achievement, not progress towards an achievement. Having a "(insert title here) Fan" badge might be ok though, depending on consensus.

I'll lay out how I think collections should be counted, based on my experience with the Mega Man series:

Separating NTSC/UC, NTSC/J, and PAL is a must. Each region gets different releases, with NTSC/J usually getting the most. Realistically, I think it would be easier if we just handled NTSC/UC, but I'm not sure how many collectors we have here that aren't North American. Certainly don't want to slight anyone.

Compilations should count separately as a single game. For example, I have Mega Man 1-8 on their respective consoles. I also have the Mega Man Anniversary Collection for PS2, GCN, and XBOX. For purposes of my collection, I would say I have NINE games in this instance, 1-8 and counting the compilation as a separate game.

One thing about compilations counting toward badges. Certain series have compilations of games which were never released in the States prior to that point, a good example is Gradius IV, it never recieved a release in the States until the Gradius III & IV set came out for PS2. Or Gradius Gaiden and Gradius II which never saw release until the Gradius Collection was released for PSP. These would need to be exemptions to the rule, since you can't get them separate.

This I agree with. Mega Man Battle and Chase was not released in North America. It was put on the Mega Man X Collection disc, so I consider that as having it. To make myself feel better, I also bought Mega Man Battle and Chase PAL and Rockman Battle and Chase NTSC/J but that's because I'm an obsessed perfectionist.  But for purposes of collecting, I would allow the compilation to count separately only for those games that didn't get a specific release (so the compilation would cover Mega Man Battle and Chase and Mega Man X Collection slots on the checklist, but not Mega Man X1-6). Another example, Mega Man 6 was never released in PAL territories. I'd allow something like that to count a compilation or another region's release towards that (as I'm sure has to be done for Final Fantasy in the US).

Remakes are tricky. For example, there exists Mega Man: The Wily Wars, which is a remake of Mega Man 1, 2, and 3 for Mega Drive in Japan and Europe. I obtained the PAL release and a NTSC "pirate" conversion for the purposes of completion. I wouldn't count the "pirate" towards my NTSC/UC collection, but the PAL one should count. Again, I would count this as a single game, and not allow it to take the place of Mega Man 1, 2, and/or 3. Same goes for Mega Man Powered Up; I would count it as it's own game, not a replacement for Mega Man 1.

Obscure games go both ways. I wouldn't count Mega Man 2 and 3 for Tiger LCD to make a complete collection. I would, however, count Mega Man and Mega Man 3 for PC. A game like The Misadventures of Tron Bonne is difficult to place...it's part of the Mega Man Legends series, and not it's own game, but it doesn't have Mega Man in it. I guess a similar question is would you consider Luigi's Mansion a Mario game? I really don't have an answer for this.

Greatest hits replacing a black label should be fine. Having everything CIB could be a different designation. Like with Mega Man (and most game series), getting some of the old NES/SNES/GB boxes is insanely expensive, so CIB is an almost unobtainable goal. But if you did get it, instead of your badge saying "Complete Mega Man Collection", it could say "Complete Mega Man Collection+", with the + identifying CIB. Or, we could set a threshhold, like if you had 9X% CIB, you could count it CIB+ (from experience, the boxes for Mega Man IV, V, and MM (GG) run about 400 dollars a piece, so it's like trying to get a copy of NWC). Again, up for debate. It might just be easier (and fairer) to have just the "Complete XXX Collection" badge without discerning if CIB or not.

And I think this should be a manually issued award. Users should have to prove they actually have these games to make the awards legit. NA has you submit photos of your collection to prove you meat the criteria. I think we should as well. Not saying people are dishonest, it's just cool to get to see what people have.

[madmax]

I agree with what Jeff is saying. A badge is an achievement, we should have to make people work for them, not just hand them out cause they are fans and such. There are tons of badges to obtain, making a few hard to get ones makes it more interesting and keeps badges unique from person to person. (I don't have a complete Final fantasy collection so I wouldn't even get one).

I really like the + collection tag. people who put a little more work for cib get a +. Sealed collections (crazy) could get a ++.

Since these badges would be somewhat exclusive, I think it wouldn't be too much work for mods to assign badges. That way its less coding work, @matt (or staffer) just adds the badge to their profile once proof is shown.