"Limited Run Games" is Producing Physical Copies of Games in Limited Quantities

[rayne315]

Ugh, could I just put a rant in here for a quick sec? This has been bothering me for a while, but I just really don't like LRG or their business model. I get and respect that people here are collectors and gamers and want to actually own/play these games, but the scalper scene that this whole project is creating is driving me crazy.

I just watched a mini-documentary from My Life in Gaming, and the co-founder of LRG even said that people will send him emails to cancel their orders if the game doesn't sell out in 24 hours. Then, in 36 or 48 hours when the game eventually does sell out, people will email him a second time telling him to disregard the cancel request. Now, why on earth would people do that?

It's because scalpers and re-sellers aren't interesting in investing in something that won't sell, and LRG knows that this is happening. Then these games all get posted on ebay for 3x as much as they were originally because scalpers know fully that that's the ONLY way you can buy the game after it sells out online! They're preying off what we desire as collectors: physical copies.

And it's barely about "preserving" games in physical quantities, in my opinion. In 10, 20, 30 years from now, these physical copies could become just as inaccessible as if they were never even made in the first place, because of availability and pricing.

I mean seriously, does anyone like that a GameCube component cable is worth $200? Or that Panzer Dragoon Saga is worth $800+? And keep in mind, they made 20,000 copies of PDS! It frustrates me that I'm forced to spend the money now when I don't even have the funds or a PS4, because if I don't buy it now, that's it.

/end rant 

actually with  the silver case and especially skullgirls they seem to be testing the waters for a pre-order market, they also stated that although they give the developers a number they think will sell its ultimately up to the developer not LRG to select a quantity to produce.

also you need to seriously keep in mind that most/all of these games are indie games with very low fandoms and if they didn't sell them in a limited quantity like they do then there would be no guarantee that they would even sell as many copies of these games as they produce.

also since I wrote it all out, because of my ocd when it comes to numbers, you can clearly see they are increasing production with every release (with other variables in there like current popularity, wether its well known, how long its been out for, etc)

[telly]

actually with  the silver case and especially skullgirls they seem to be testing the waters for a pre-order market, they also stated that although they give the developers a number they think will sell its ultimately up to the developer not LRG to select a quantity to produce.

also you need to seriously keep in mind that most/all of these games are indie games with very low fandoms and if they didn't sell them in a limited quantity like they do then there would be no guarantee that they would even sell as many copies of these games as they produce.

A good point, but a huge reason why people want to buy these games isn't necessarily because they're fans of the games: people like physical copies of stuff, even though they don't have an interest in actually playing the game. And the allure of a rare and limited release also makes even more attractive for collectors, even if the game itself has a low following.

Firstly, LRG has specifically stated they will not print a second batch of any game they release, so they still purposefully limit availability of their titles, no matter how popular the are. Secondly, when talking to developers, LRG finances the entire project themselves, so they actually do have the ultimate say in how many copies they would like to make. But I think it's good that they're stepping up the production numbers and trying out a pre-order system.

Some examples to address to your second point:

Oddworld is not really a franchise with a low number of fans, it's a relatively popular and well known series.
They want to publish Phantasy Star Online 2, and have expressed interest in Fatal Frame V: games that also have followings and fanbases
and...
Breach & Clear was the number 1 strategy game in 40 different countries on it's original platform (iOs), and was the number 2 game in 2013 in the United States.

In addition, my issue still stands: If at any point in the future you want to own any of these game for any reason, it will be next to impossible and frustratingly expensive (as it stands right now).
What if you want to collect for the PS4? Or the Vita?
What if you hear about Octodad in a YouTube video and want to try the game out?
What if you played Shantae on the 3DS and want to check out some other games in the series?

You would completely miss out because you were late to the party Again, we don't like how other rare games are like that now, I'm not thrilled that LRG is making releases that play into that same situation, whether it makes sense from a business perspective or not.

[ignition365]

actually with  the silver case and especially skullgirls they seem to be testing the waters for a pre-order market, they also stated that although they give the developers a number they think will sell its ultimately up to the developer not LRG to select a quantity to produce.

also you need to seriously keep in mind that most/all of these games are indie games with very low fandoms and if they didn't sell them in a limited quantity like they do then there would be no guarantee that they would even sell as many copies of these games as they produce.

A good point, but a huge reason why people want to buy these games isn't necessarily because they're fans of the games: people like physical copies of stuff, even though they don't have an interest in actually playing the game. And the allure of a rare and limited release also makes even more attractive for collectors, even if the game itself has a low following.

Firstly, LRG has specifically stated they will not print a second batch of any game they release, so they still purposefully limit availability of their titles, no matter how popular the are. Secondly, when talking to developers, LRG finances the entire project themselves, so they actually do have the ultimate say in how many copies they would like to make. But I think it's good that they're stepping up the production numbers and trying out a pre-order system.

Some examples to address to your second point:

Oddworld is not really a franchise with a low number of fans, it's a relatively popular and well known series.
They want to publish Phantasy Star Online 2, and have expressed interest in Fatal Frame V: games that also have followings and fanbases
and...
Breach & Clear was the number 1 strategy game in 40 different countries on it's original platform (iOs), and was the number 2 game in 2013 in the United States.

In addition, my issue still stands: If at any point in the future you want to own any of these game for any reason, it will be next to impossible and frustratingly expensive (as it stands right now).
What if you want to collect for the PS4? Or the Vita?
What if you hear about Octodad in a YouTube video and want to try the game out?
What if you played Shantae on the 3DS and want to check out some other games in the series?

You would completely miss out because you were late to the party Again, we don't like how other rare games are like that now, I'm not thrilled that LRG is making releases that play into that same situation, whether it makes sense from a business perspective or not.

A lot of your points are moot given that they are readily available digitally at a cheaper price point, plus digital sales are very frequent.

If you are going to whine that you refuse to buy digital then I don't know what to tell you other than to get over it.  You can pay 50 cents or some shit when it hits humble bundle or gets a redonk sale, or eat the shit and buy it on ebay for a million yen.

No LRG does not have the final say on how many are produced, the developers have the final say, LRG only gets to suggest the print numbers.  LRG finances the whole thing, but the money from sales first go 100% to pay the costs of printing and such, then the profit gets doled out 70/30 in the developers favor.  If the developer chooses a low number, the developer may not stand to make much money.

And FINALLY, LRG did say they will not print second runs of any of the games, but guess what, the developers do not sign some publisher agreement that prevents the developer from finding another publisher to reprint the game.  So, for example, down the line, if Wayforward decided it wanted to produce more copies of Pirate's curse or Risky's revenge, 1/2 genie hero style, they absolutely could.

[telly]

No I totally agree man; if these games were made with additional releases by WayForward or whoever, my concerns would be no big deal. And just to clarify, I too have nothing against digital. I have digital games in my collection that I bought/ downloaded. I refer to an imaginary person with "you" in the bottom of my previous post; I'm not talking about myself here.

If a developer wanted to make 30,000 or 40,000 copies of their game, and went to LRG about it, I daresay LRG would limit that number because they want to make a "limited run" of their products. At some point there would be a limit to how many they will make, which is the "final say" I'm referring to.

I think what I'm trying to say here is in a purely hypothetical sense, which is why my posts have a lot of "what ifs" and "coulds" and I reference other rare/expensive items that have fallen into the same fate. So my issue is if the servers for a game go down lets say, and no other releases for the game are ever made, then I feel like that's the issue I'm talking about. Maybe that's a lot of stipulations, but because part of the reason why digital is so hated is because it's "fleeting and impermanent", I don't think I'm that too far off.

Limited Run's message is to "bring physicality back to games, to break that impermancence" which is great, but physical media has the disadvantage that there may not be enough copies to go around, while digital can be downloaded over and over again. I think that's a little bit of a contradiction in LRG's message; their idea of physical seems just as fleeting to me because if you miss it, you miss it.

It's just a thought I had for you all to consider, I don't mean to offend anyone What I'm really annoyed about is the scalper scene, though.

[desocietas]

It's just a thought I had for you all to consider, I don't mean to offend anyone What I'm really annoyed about is the scalper scene, though.

Totally understandable. That's so disconcerting to hear that report from LRG about scalpers wanting to cancel orders when they fear that they might not be able to flip the item for a good profit immediately. Also, it's a good conversation to have, honestly. What really is the best sales model? You want to give collectors a chance to get stuff, but time is money as well. I'm sure Gaijinworks has seen that initial push in the beginning of a campaign for a preorder-only run and then see the interest drop off with the longer the campaign is. With too much time, people wait on ordering and might forget to place the order or change their mind altogether. With too little time, people miss out but it creates a sense of urgency and pushes sales in that way.

[kashell]

It's just a thought I had for you all to consider, I don't mean to offend anyone What I'm really annoyed about is the scalper scene, though.

I know that you didn't mean any offense with your thoughts.

No business model is perfect, and LRG is no exception. I picture LRG in two ways. The first is a group of fellow gamers like the folks on this website that want to provide physical media for others. Their resources are "limited" but they're doing their best. Then, I picture the folks at LRG acting like Snidely Whiplash; twirling their mustaches and rubbing their paws together as they give the shaft to people that forgot to set their alarm clocks or just missed the deadline.

For what my two cents is all worth, the two games I've played from them so far (Dragon Fantasy and One Way Heroics) have been crappy. I haven't tried Shadow Complex yet.

But, yeah, the scalpers and the buffoons that buy from them are the worst offenders.

[ignition365]

If a developer wanted to make 30,000 or 40,000 copies of their game, and went to LRG about it, I daresay LRG would limit that number because they want to make a "limited run" of their products. At some point there would be a limit to how many they will make, which is the "final say" I'm referring to.

If the Developer wants 30k print run, LRG would probably do it, but LRG's "contract" states that all money goes towards paying for the print run and then once it is paid for, the PROFIT is split 70/30.  If they only sell 10k, but that manages to pay for the print run, the other 20k will just sit there, but LRG made their money back and nobody profited or lost money... kind of.

I probably didn't word that right.  I'm sure, yes, LRG would try to convince the dev that that is too high a number and that they wouldn't make a profit, which of course the dev would consider.  Everybody is out to make money with this, both LRG and the developers, so they have to pick a number that will maintain profitability.

I personally believe that the Gaijinworks model is pretty good, because it isn't "limited", they are just printing to demand.  And while I can agree about the concerns about digital media's lifespan, most companies want to make money.  Even if PSN for PS4 goes down one day, I assure you that if someone owns the rights to a game, they will try to republish it over and over and over.  I will say, now that I'm collecting OG Xbox games, I'm noticing that some Xbox games had DLC, and it is not possible to get that stuff, which is a total bummer.  So the point is totally valid.

[bikingjahuty]

As I mentioned in my post above, I belonged to a group up until this week where several of the members were celebrating the fact that they obtained multiple copies using multiple accounts for the sake of flipping them for a pretty big profit. While I would loosely call these people collectors since they do plan on keeping at least one copy of each (at least from what they were saying), it seriously pisses me off that many people missed out on getting Shantae because of assholes like this that deliberately had several accounts to circumvent the 2-per customer max on their games.

I feel like what LRG should do in order to reduce this type of behavior while maximizing sales is to do second print runs, even if they are half the original release amount. That still gives others a chance to obtain the game physically and also takes at least some wind out of the sails of the scalpers.

Whether it is LRG, the latest game console, Amiibos, or anything like that, I have a special place in my heart for how much a hate scalpers. Greedy assholes taking something away from people who actually want it and charging them an increased premium for it is just a total dick move imo. i know it is there right to do so if they obtained an item fair and square, but still it pisses me off to no end.

[dashv]

Ironically I aquired multiple copies to "hook a brutha or a sista up" that missed their window.

Seems like everyone that wanted one got one.

So now what do I do with my extra copy of each!?



Maybe I open one and keep the others sealed.

Maybe I trade for a previous LRG I missed.

I dunno.

[davifus]

Do you have Söldner-X 2 Soundtrack Bundle? Thats the only thing I missed... maybe I'm sure of it.

[Warmsignal]

I tend not to think that LRG's intention is keeping physical media relevant, but rather to capitalize on game collecting hysteria. When you announce something is super limited in video games nowadays, that's like a guaranteed sale. Collector's want it because it's a one chance deal. I've questioned several times how many LRG titles would be flying off of the shelves if they were mass produced? I just don't see how every release is a must-have.

On the other hand, you have companies like Rising Star, and Soedesco publishing all sorts of indie titles in mass. Not nearly as much fanfare over their products, yet they've put out some really cool looking games in the past year. Unless these companies are just recklessly unprofitable, then I don't see what they're doing that LRG couldn't also do. Outside of the hardcore collecting niches, I doubt many people ever hear about any of LRGs endeavors, which isn't actually doing much to promote these games.

[desocietas]

Volume is up right now for folks interested in it.

[Flashback2012]

Volume is up right now for folks interested in it.

ARGH I crashed and burned last night. I forgot to set my alarm for this morning and overslept. Is there a second round for this or did anyone snag a spare they're willing to part with? 

Edit: Just saw the e-mail announcement and as usual there's another round at 6PM. Bleh...it would have been far easier to plan my day around the 10AM release but luckily I have the day off. 

[desocietas]

Volume is up right now for folks interested in it.

ARGH I crashed and burned last night. I forgot to set my alarm for this morning and overslept. Is there a second round for this or did anyone snag a spare they're willing to part with? 

Edit: Just saw the e-mail announcement and as usual there's another round at 6PM. Bleh...it would have been far easier to plan my day around the 10AM release but luckily I have the day off. 

I know how that goes... Best of luck later today!

[Flashback2012]

I know how that goes... Best of luck later today!

I was out running errands right before 6PM yesterday so I got back to the house with 5 minutes to spare. Ordered my copy no problem and then went on to see that there was still product available around midnight EST.