Why does everything have conform to be PC/Inclusive/etc these days?

[Cartagia]

We get Solo with "Pando" Calrasian?  Did we need to retroactively make Lando different?  Why change a character retroactively to pander?  Couldn't another character have been pansexual?  I dont have a problem with people and their lifestyles, but as my friend Tasha (who is gay in a marriage with her wife who is now transitioning to a male) said when talking about Lando "That's just fucking stupid."

See, I don’t think this is pandering at all.  I see it as a natural extension of Lando as a character.  To me Lando always read as a pansexual - even before I really knew what sexuality was.  Lando for me has always been someone who would fuck anyone and anything at any time, which is why I love him.  Smooth as hell to everyone.

I must have missed the part in Empire Strikes Back where he hit on C3PO, made sexual advances towards R2D2, and asked Chewie on a date.


But in all seriousness, the fact that Lando's sexuality has become a focus in a Star Wars film is just ridiculous and makes no sense in the context of Star Wars or his character which was already developed/established in the original trilogy. He didn't need to be reestablished at all, and the fact they chose to do it in the way they did was total pandering.

He still didn't hit on everyone in site in Solo either, he sees something he likes, and he goes for it.  Being pan or bi doesn't mean you are attracted to everyone and hit on anything in site, and to suggest as much is reductive.  And, besides, he is older and more controlled in Empire.  I was definitely doing more flirting when I was 10+ years younger.

[gf78]

That's the pokemon I was talking about. I highly doubt that the Japanese inventor of Jynx intended to cause offense. Here is a decent read about it.

https://m.bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species:_Jynx

[Cartagia]

That's the pokemon I was talking about. I highly doubt that the Japanese inventor of Jynx intended to cause offense. Here is a decent read about it.

https://m.bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species:_Jynx

Just because you don’t mean for something to be offensive doesn’t mean it is not offensive.

[gf78]

What bikingjahuty said, the fact that they even felt the need to bring up a characters sexuality is an example of pandering. There was no need. Star Wars has never been about exploring sexuality. Its war. In the stars. 

[gf78]

That's the pokemon I was talking about. I highly doubt that the Japanese inventor of Jynx intended to cause offense. Here is a decent read about it.

https://m.bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/On_the_Origin_of_Species:_Jynx

Just because you don’t mean for something to be offensive doesn’t mean it is not offensive.

Read the article to understand. The Japanese are baffled that people take offense to things like this.

[gf78]

We get Solo with "Pando" Calrasian?  Did we need to retroactively make Lando different?  Why change a character retroactively to pander?  Couldn't another character have been pansexual?  I dont have a problem with people and their lifestyles, but as my friend Tasha (who is gay in a marriage with her wife who is now transitioning to a male) said when talking about Lando "That's just fucking stupid."

See, I don’t think this is pandering at all.  I see it as a natural extension of Lando as a character.  To me Lando always read as a pansexual - even before I really knew what sexuality was.  Lando for me has always been someone who would fuck anyone and anything at any time, which is why I love him.  Smooth as hell to everyone.

I must have missed the part in Empire Strikes Back where he hit on C3PO, made sexual advances towards R2D2, and asked Chewie on a date.


But in all seriousness, the fact that Lando's sexuality has become a focus in a Star Wars film is just ridiculous and makes no sense in the context of Star Wars or his character which was already developed/established in the original trilogy. He didn't need to be reestablished at all, and the fact they chose to do it in the way they did was total pandering.

He still didn't hit on everyone in site in Solo either, he sees something he likes, and he goes for it.  Being pan or bi doesn't mean you are attracted to everyone and hit on anything in site, and to suggest as much is reductive.  And, besides, he is older and more controlled in Empire.  I was definitely doing more flirting when I was 10+ years younger.

Again, something completely unnecessary in a Star Wars film, just as the sexuality of Soldier 76 in Overwatch in unnecessary. Whether gay, bi, pan or whatever - it has no bearing on the characters in the context of the films or games. I dont care if Soldier 76 is banging all the other Overwatch ladies OR the guys. It's irrelevant and only brought up (ie recently fabricated) to try to pander to gamers who may be spending less time playing and moving over to Fortnite.

[bikingjahuty]

We get Solo with "Pando" Calrasian?  Did we need to retroactively make Lando different?  Why change a character retroactively to pander?  Couldn't another character have been pansexual?  I dont have a problem with people and their lifestyles, but as my friend Tasha (who is gay in a marriage with her wife who is now transitioning to a male) said when talking about Lando "That's just fucking stupid."

See, I don’t think this is pandering at all.  I see it as a natural extension of Lando as a character.  To me Lando always read as a pansexual - even before I really knew what sexuality was.  Lando for me has always been someone who would fuck anyone and anything at any time, which is why I love him.  Smooth as hell to everyone.

I must have missed the part in Empire Strikes Back where he hit on C3PO, made sexual advances towards R2D2, and asked Chewie on a date.


But in all seriousness, the fact that Lando's sexuality has become a focus in a Star Wars film is just ridiculous and makes no sense in the context of Star Wars or his character which was already developed/established in the original trilogy. He didn't need to be reestablished at all, and the fact they chose to do it in the way they did was total pandering.

He still didn't hit on everyone in site in Solo either, he sees something he likes, and he goes for it.  Being pan or bi doesn't mean you are attracted to everyone and hit on anything in site, and to suggest as much is reductive.  And, besides, he is older and more controlled in Empire.  I was definitely doing more flirting when I was 10+ years younger.

It was a joke, lighten up.


But he seemed exclusively interested in Leia from what I remember. I don't see how in anyway his character could be seen as anything but heterosexual from the original trilogy. I would have nothing against him if he wasn't, but I don't see any evidence at all for him being pan or bi in ESB or RotJ. And just because someone is ambitious and "goes for it" does not equate to them being pan or bi. Those are mutually exclusive traits.


One more thing is I'm not against non-hetero characters in fiction or even Star Wars. I thought there was a possibility that Poe might be gay and that might be developed in TLJ, but it turned out that there was zero character development at all in that movie from any character. I typically take the high ground (Star Wars pun) when explaining why I hate TLJ, and don't get into the social and political aspects of it, even though I feel like there are several valid points to be made about those thing in that god awful movie.

[gf78]

The Last Jedi ruined Star Wars for me. Seriously. My oldest daughter and I went to see it opening weekend. By the time they got to Krait, I was ready to leave the theater. When we left, my daughter looked at me after a long silence and said "That..wasnt very good."  And the more I played over in my mind what I had watched, I actually became angry. And when I went online to see if others felt the same way as me and saw people calling them mysoginists and accusing them of hating the empowerment of women and that all of us "cavemen" needed to get used to it, I became confused and even angrier because the empowerment of women wasn't even a complaint.

Leia flying like Superman?  Friggin dumb.
Luke drinking blue milk out of a boobie?  Friggin dumb.
Space chase till you run out of gas?  Friggin dumb.
Literally moments after Force Awakens ended (Ray still holding Luke's lightsaber out to him) and the First Order has suddenly conquered the galaxy in the time it took to finish the screen crawl?  Friggin dumb!

That whole movie is friggin dumb!   

[redblaze57]

The Last Jedi ruined Star Wars for me. Seriously. My oldest daughter and I went to see it opening weekend. By the time they got to Krait, I was ready to leave the theater. When we left, my daughter looked at me after a long silence and said "That..wasnt very good."  And the more I played over in my mind what I had watched, I actually became angry. And when I went online to see if others felt the same way as me and saw people calling them mysoginists and accusing them of hating the empowerment of women and that all of us "cavemen" needed to get used to it, I became confused and even angrier because the empowerment of women wasn't even a complaint.

Leia flying like Mary Poppins?  Friggin dumb.
Luke drinking blue milk out of a boobie?  Friggin dumb.
Space chase till you run out of gas?  Friggin dumb.
Literally moments after Force Awakens ended (Ray still holding Luke's lightsaber out to him) and the First Order has suddenly conquered the galaxy in the time it took to finish the screen crawl?  Friggin dumb!

That whole movie is friggin dumb!   

*fixed
F*ck it I'm rolling with this
Canto Bite- terrible. must we have a scene about how terrible it is for enslaved animals, but F*** the children

Contractors make weapons for both sides- what was the point of that? No seriously other than trying to outdo that scene in Iron Man

General Holdo-  (personal gripe)why was she dressed like she was going to formal dinner and not battle? Also if she was a Male and made the dumb decisions of not informing people of her plan you know everyone would hate  the character. The whole heroic sacrifice at the end felt unearned

Choosing to not kill off Leia but instead Luke to "subvert expectaions" was terrible for the sheer fact that Carrie Fisher is no longer with us

Killing off Admiral Ackbar- fuck you Roundhead

Force long distance calls- huh what?

Screw you Ruin Roundhead Johnson

[bikingjahuty]

The Last Jedi ruined Star Wars for me. Seriously. My oldest daughter and I went to see it opening weekend. By the time they got to Krait, I was ready to leave the theater. When we left, my daughter looked at me after a long silence and said "That..wasnt very good."  And the more I played over in my mind what I had watched, I actually became angry. And when I went online to see if others felt the same way as me and saw people calling them mysoginists and accusing them of hating the empowerment of women and that all of us "cavemen" needed to get used to it, I became confused and even angrier because the empowerment of women wasn't even a complaint.

Leia flying like Superman?  Friggin dumb.
Luke drinking blue milk out of a boobie?  Friggin dumb.
Space chase till you run out of gas?  Friggin dumb.
Literally moments after Force Awakens ended (Ray still holding Luke's lightsaber out to him) and the First Order has suddenly conquered the galaxy in the time it took to finish the screen crawl?  Friggin dumb!

That whole movie is friggin dumb!   

Your experience pretty much mirrors mine exactly. In fact, the process I went through is well documented in one of the threads in off topic, can't remember which one. But yeah, I felt very conflicted leaving the theater and the more i thought about that movie and processed what I had just seen, the angrier I became. Seeing that at least half the Star Wars fanbase felt the same way was refreshing since it didn't mean I was the crazy one. I still find it hilarious that the only defense this movie has are "the visuals" which are cheap when you break them down, and also the character assassination of people who don't like this movie.


To be frank, The Last Jedi was a huge pile of shit and it single handedly put Star Wars where it is right now. Unlike the leadup to TLJ, Episode 9 has nearly no enthusiasm or hype, and Star Wars as a brand is for the first tie ever failing as indicated by Solo flopping, toy and merch sales being down significantly, Battlefront II being a disaster, and Disney itself attacking fans who didn't like the movie or the direction Star Wars is going. I don't wish failure upon things often, but I hope Episode 9 is a colossal bomb so maybe the current idiot regime at Lucasfilm gets shitcanned and the chance for real talent to step in can take place. Currently though, Disney's Star Wars (ie. The Force Awakens and all subsequent films and EU material based off their re-canon) is dead to me. I've still been enjoying the original 6 movies and all the EU material that Disney has now classified as "Legends" or non-canon, despite it being infinitely better than the pile of crap Disney is currently shitting out.

[ferraroso]

The Japanese are baffled that people take offense to things like this.

I live in Japan. And the degree of racism and prejudice I see (and face) daily in Japanese society is far from being acceptable to any country that deems itself to be modern and civilized.

If the Japanese are baffled that Westerners take offense to things like this, I doubt that the offended people should be the ones to be blamed...

But as I've said before, I consider myself to be a PCSJW anyway...

In time: I also hate The Last Jedi.

[gf78]

To be frank, The Last Jedi was a huge pile of shit and it single handedly put Star Wars where it is right now. Unlike the leadup to TLJ, Episode 9 has nearly no enthusiasm or hype, and Star Wars as a brand is for the first tie ever failing as indicated by Solo flopping, toy and merch sales being down significantly, Battlefront II being a disaster, and Disney itself attacking fans who didn't like the movie or the direction Star Wars is going.

Following Solo which is a spinoff, this is the first numbered Star Wars film that I'm not hyped to go see and in fact, will not be going to see at the theater. IF Episode IX ends up correcting course and IF the real Star Wars fans come away saying it was great, I may give it a chance. But those are very big ifs.

And I would also like to take a moment to say that my problems with Ray have nothing to do with her being a strong lead. My problem(s) is that an interesting character with inborn abilities and an affinity for the Force that in fact, the spirits of dead Jedi lead to Luke's lightsaber and help is tossed away like trash. Instead of being a prodigy, an offspring of a Jedi, a reincarnation of Anakin or any other number of cool possibilities, she's the child of drunks on a backwater shithole planet who traded her in for booze money. Come the fuck on!

[Cartagia]

IF the real Star Wars fans come away saying it was great, I may give it a chance.

But who are you to determine who is a “real” Star Wars fan?  I was planning on staying out of the conversation until this statement, but that is some real gatekeeper bullshit.

I personally like TLJ a lot.  It certainly has flaws and I have some issues - some of which are mentioned in this thread, but it is easily my favorite of the Disney SW films.  And I’ve been a Star Wars fan for over two decades.  I have a Rebel Alliance tattoo.  I devoured the novels.  I played the card games.  I defended parts of the prequels far longer than I should have.  Am I not a “real” fan? 

I like it mainly because while it does have issues the things it does well it does so well that it offsets those problems.

Take your suggestions for Rey: I hate them.  Every single one of them.  I still have some niggling issues with her as a character, but making her some unknown Jedi off spring or clone?  Or whatever the hell?  All that does is serve to narrow the scope of a story that should span the galaxy.  Her having a dirt poor, shitty unknown past?  I’m down with that.

TLJ, for whatever issues it may have, showed me a galaxy where anything could happen, and I was on the edge of my seat (mostly) wondering what the hell was going to happen next.

[pizzasafari]

[gf78]

By real fans, let me clarify the people who actually saw the film and started their opinions about it versus the critics who adored it. There is a huge disparity there with the overwhelming majority of moviegoers who did not enjoy the film. So you can save the indignity as I was not trying to insult your tastes or say you aren't a fan or be a gatekeeper for a product I don't own or have control over.

Im glad you have been a fan for over two decades. With that being said, a bit of background for you. I saw the 1st movie in the theater with my dad back in '77. So, I've been a fan for over Forty fucking years. I've seen every single one pre-Solo in the theater, most multiple times including the 1997 re-releases. I own and have owned more Star Wars swag than I should have, enough money's worth to buy a small house or a nice new car.

And I didnt state my opinions as fact. I made it clear I personally think Last Jedi is shit. I started my reasons for it. Tell me please, what you think this film did so well?  Turning all the Male characters into arrogant assholes (Poe), whipping boys (Hux), stuttering sleazeballs (Del Toro's character), cannon fodder (all other Rebel men), etc?  Making all the female Rebels the heroic sacrifices?  Shaming Chewbacca for being a carnivore?

How about the nonsensical space chase, waiting for the Rebels to run out of fucking gas?  Why not have another ship do a hyperspace jump ahead of them and just wait for them to show up? 

How did we go from a Rebel victory despite their capital planet being blown up by the relatively small (compared to the Empire) First Order to them dominating the galaxy and crushing the republic... ALL IN THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES REY TO HAND LUKE A LIGHTSABER?!  And while we are on the subject of Luke, regardless of being disenfranchised with the Jedi and acting like a complete out-of-character prick, would he really just toss his pops lightsaber over his shoulder & down a cliff?  I dont think so. With his and his fathers own tumultuous relationship with the force, would he just try to off his own nephew because he sensed some darkness?  Come the fuck on.

There are many other obnoxious things in this film. Maz the bartender is suddenly negotiating trade disputes?  Kylo is a whiny emo bitch who pouts because Snoke insulted his helmet?  Force-Facetime across the galaxy?  Absolutely zero character building or development.  Who is Snoke?  Who cares, off him!  Who is Phasma, who cares, throw her in a burning pit!

On board the ship when Admiral Purple -Hair lady (Yes, I know her name is Holdo) jumps through the First Order flagship at the exact moment Finn is getting ready to be executed, all the Stormtroopers are killed and Phasma gets warped to safety all the way on the other side of the hangar. And Finn & company are miraculously unharmed!  WTF is going on right here?!

Sorry, in my opinion and the majority of other moviegoers,  Last Jedi was and is a steaming pile of shit that crapped upon everything that made Star Wars so enjoyable to people like me for over forty years.

And if you dont like my opinion, fine. Even Luke Skywalker himself, Mark Hamill hated the script and said he fundamentally disagrees with everything they did to Luke's character.

Rian Johnson set out to make a movie full of his own political and social agendas and Star Wars has suffered for it. Han Solo was a box office bomb compared to every previous film in the series and resulted in plans for other standalone films being put on the back burner or scrapped altogether.

So if you dont believe that the vast majority of fans are unhappy with the direction they are going or that is some real gatekeeper bullshit right there, you are delusional. The financial impact to Disney & Lucasfilm is in print for all to see. Obviously, it's not a small group of misogynist trolls to have so affected a huge franchise.