What games would you consider objectively some of the greatest ever made?

General and Gaming > Classic Video Games

<< < (6/8) > >>

Cartagia:
telly and Warmsignal are on point here. There’s no such thing as objective beauty. You can get an extremely large consensus, but never truly objective. Even something with a 100% on Metacritic or RT has got someone out there saying ‘Nah, it’s not that good,’ because it is all subject to someone’s personal tastes / opinions.

dreama1:

--- Quote from: Cartagia on February 17, 2020, 05:42:56 pm ---telly and Warmsignal are on point here. There’s no such thing as objective beauty. You can get an extremely large consensus, but never truly objective. Even something with a 100% on Metacritic or RT has got someone out there saying ‘Nah, it’s not that good,’ because it is all subject to someone’s personal tastes / opinions.

--- End quote ---
Well there's nothing wrong with disagreeing. There's universal markers so you're getting shades of it thats objective, but specific beauty is subjective and relative. I agreed that much, unless it's going to be a circle jerk here with no one dissenting as usual.

If it's relative or not to the subject. Even scientists have mapped out the ideal symmetries of a beautiful face. We are the same species who are attracted to similar qualities like any other animal. I would make the assumption it applies to other things as well.

Warmsignal:
I don’t understand why you don’t just ask us, “What are your greatest games of all time?”. That’s a valid question. You’d be asking everyone for their personal opinions. Instead you are framing it as though there is a definitive list of greatest games which is based purely in fact, and you want us to tell you which games those are.

I completely disagree with any notion that there is an ideal video game, or a most correct way to make one, and that only a well trained eye could observe that game and recognize it for what it actually is - a game superior to all others, objectively.

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Objective_vs_Subjective

telly:

--- Quote from: dreama1 on February 17, 2020, 05:20:13 pm ---Are you just going to strawman? Because you're making arguments I never made. I clearly said you can't hit it like a "bulls-eye" target and relay it empirically pinpointed and nailed, as much as looking through a keyhole at a room and not seeing the whole thing but only pixelated/not in focus (but still the objective shape of truth/beauty) It can be formulated closer to what the ideal is and more in focus the more experience someone has, but it's exact nature can't be understood at least not with language but through the abstracts you get something closer to objective truth or what it embodies. But If you wish to be relativistic and subjective about everything as is popular please do.

--- End quote ---

This whole metaphorical jargon sounds nice in theory but is total bullshit. The objective "best list of games ever" is not locked behind some hidden door or obscured away by language and we just need to look hard enough, that's ridiculous. The interrater reliability between all of us is completely wonked. We all have our own starting basis for what makes a good game that any attempt to determine this "bulls-eye" target is dead right from the starting gate.

As far as I'm concerned, you've undermined your whole argument. You've stretched out your position so far none of what you're saying can be remotely applied to any game that has ever been made. You're talking about a game that doesn't even exist anymore. If none of us can measure it (as you've admitted), and none of us can fully define or describe it (as you've admitted), and we don't even know what it would LOOK like:

a. How do you know such a thing exists?
b. What's the point or the use of trying to identify it in a thread like this?

--- Quote from: dreama1 on February 17, 2020, 05:20:13 pm ---These emotions "exist" as biochemical processes by humans. That's not to say they aren't important. They absolutely do have a neurocognitive foundation, but they are a product of the mechanisms going on in your own body. They don't "exist" in some cosmic ether nether-plane or whatever you think is going on."

I think many would disagree with you anyway, including Plato and the whole branch of metaphysics. But you can continue to be a relativist or whatever "you think" is going on. Yep whatever.

--- End quote ---

I know people would disagree with me, I'm talking to one right now (you). This isn't an argument.

--- Quote from: dreama1 on February 17, 2020, 05:23:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: telly on February 17, 2020, 04:00:52 pm ---LOL Dunning Kruger doesn't apply to whether people can have opinions of something or not you know xD

--- End quote ---
Yes. You're a prime example.

--- End quote ---

Nice jab dude. I mean I just stated that your example of Dunning Kruger was nonsense, and it sounds like you agree with me, so I dunno what to tell ya. ‾\_(ツ)_/‾

dreama1:
This whole metaphorical jargon sounds nice in theory but is total bullshit. The objective "best list of games ever" is not locked behind some hidden door or obscured away by language and we just need to look hard enough, that's ridiculous. The interrater reliability between all of us is completely wonked. We all have our own starting basis for what makes a good game that any attempt to determine this "bulls-eye" target is dead right from the starting gate."

You say that with such conviction that you have objective certainty that is isn't the case? And everything is subjective (which is objective) Ironic. And no you're incorrect. There is universal objective markers of good game design. Just as we remember great people or things that stood above the rest in either quality or beauty throughout time. We remember Mozart, and Beethoven 100 years later for a reason, and it will apply to some video games hopefully as well in a similar manner. If you can't accept or comprehend poor or mediocre game design vs quality design what else is there to say? If you seriously can't tell the difference between why Action 51 is objectively bad compared to say Contra, ninja gaiden, castlevania, or zelda or in a different league. Everyone is aware why it's poor in comparison even if they can't verbalise it exactly, the superior quality is understood objectively. If it's intuition or logic. It can be instinctively understood that it was crafted with love/passion and dedication and felt. Not metaphorical jargonise bullshit as you put it. Only humorists would say otherwise.

a. How do you know such a thing exists?
b. What's the point or the use of trying to identify it in a thread like this?"

Sorry for trying to make an engaging discussion about video games? This site is for cooking recipes only or brain dead topics? or worse at the mercy of marvelvscapcom2?

I know people would disagree with me, I'm talking to one right now (you). This isn't an argument."

Yes, and this isn't an argument either? Talking as if you figured out what people have been debating for millenniums in about 5 minutes? What am I suppose to tell you?

Oh I've heard about Anita Sarkeesian and all that, but I mostly don't give a shit about it. There are far worse things in this world to get all "offended" over."

Yes I'm well aware of that, but this is a video game based site. It might come a shock to you but we discuss things related to video games here, that includes video game journalism off handily if this comes as news?

Navigation

 Message Index

Go to full version