"Tech fer dummiez": Q&A for the less tech-savvy of us

[disgaeniac]

Topic:

Instead of starting a new & separate topic every time there's a tech-related question - having a single forum for it will be more efficient & will probably be seen/read; helpful to more of us when it's all together.

I'll start -

Can someone please explain what the 'practical' / end-user difference & experience is between the "DDDwhateverthefuck" Sony used in their PS4 and the different "DDDwhateverthefuck" MS used in their XBoned consoles?

thanks 

[insektmute]

I'm assuming by DDD you're referring to memory. So it's like this:

The PS4 uses 8GB of GDDR5 which is clocked at 2.75GHz with memory bandwidth of 176GB/s.
The Xbone utilizes 8GB of DDR3, but the actual clock speed is 853MHz, which corresponds to their quoted 68.3GB/s memory bandwidth (68.3 divided by .

Both systems also included a seperate, smaller cache of RAM for small miscellaneous tasks. I didn't see what the PS4's is quoted as being, but the Xbone's is 32MB, which runs faster than the shared DDR3 used for the CPU and GPU functions, but is such a small amount that it doesn't really matter.

It's not clear what the CAS timings are for either console, but it's also largely irrelevant, as both utilize an integrated memory controller, which largely negates those values in the real world.

The GDDR5 used by the PS4 is basically a variant of DDR3 designed for high-bandwidth graphical applications, whereas the DDR3 used by the Xbone is ordinarily only used for system memory, but they're using it for games as well; in a traditional gaming PC, the video card is separate and has its own onboard GDDR that kicks in during games or in apps that can utilize hardware acceleration.

The Xbone also reserves a set amount of its memory pool for the operating system and other non-gaming purposes, making only around 5GB available to developers instead of the full 8GB offered by the PS4. Long story short, it uses dramatically slower memory and allows developers access to only a fraction of what's available.

To put that in perspective, the Wii U uses 2GB of DDR3, and operating systems like Windows 7 x64 require at least 4GB of memory to run properly, which makes the Xbone just a hair above the recommended requirements to run 64-bit apps (and you have to if you want to utilize more than 3GB of RAM) in Windows.

[disgaeniac]

Thanks Erik, where ya been hiding, brother?

Yep, I meant memory.

But, what does the difference (between PS4 vs XBO) boil down to for me when I play a game; better res/more fps, etc?

[dashv]

Thanks Erik, where ya been hiding, brother?

Yep, I meant memory.

But, what does the difference (between PS4 vs XBO) boil down to for me when I play a game; better res/more fps, etc?

My read of the specs of both systems so far is once again SONY has superior hardware. But it's up to developers to make the most of it. For the first couple of years there won't be a huge difference between xbone and ps4 games. Once devs get to know each system the PS4 will begin getting noticeably better versions of cross platform games.

The same thing happened last generation with the 360 and ps 3.

[maximo310]

Thanks Erik, where ya been hiding, brother?

Yep, I meant memory.

But, what does the difference (between PS4 vs XBO) boil down to for me when I play a game; better res/more fps, etc?

It pretty much means that due to the PS4's graphical and ram advantages, it makes it easier for developers to have their games get a higher resolutions and better fps in some cases compared to the Xbox One and can be compared to multiplatform games, which are usually 1080p and 60fps for PS4, and XBO have usually been 900p with the same frame rate, or if they decide to go to 1080p, then the console will suffer from frame rate drops during lots of actions on screen. Then again, its still early for both consoles, so maybe optimization of the XBO will change in the future if developers learn how to program better on it.

[disgaeniac]

Would you visually be able to tell one from the other (notice a difference by eye) w/o side by side images?

[maximo310]

So far many of the images comparing the two don't show too much of a difference besides certain minor effects such as clouds overhead, or weather effects; the PS4 looks a bit clearer and has better draw distance in many comparison shots.  It's somewhat noticeable in screenshots if you looked and compared them visually.

[insektmute]

This is actually one of the first console gens where it really isn't a question of what the developers can get out of the hardware. The architecture used by both is virtually identical, and so with multiplatform games, developers would have to deliberately cripple some aspect or another of the PS4 version for them to reach parity.

Unlike the PS3 vs 360 days, where there were drastic differences in architecture, there is no learning to program better one one console vs. another at play here. This is straight up x86-based PC hardware derived from the same AMD foundation, and subject to the same rules - no amount of optimization is going to make slower hardware perform on the level of faster hardware.

As for real world impact, it depends on the game, but generally, the biggest differences will be related to resolution, framerate at a given resolution, particle FX, lighting quality, and shadows. Whether there's a visible distinction in screenshots or not is going to vary, but this gen, there's no reason to bother comparing.

[insektmute]

Put another, simpler way:

Imagine that you have two PCs sitting in front of you running Windows 7 x64. You start up Dead Rising 3 or (insert game here) on each system.
- System 1 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 5GB of DDR3 memory running at 853MHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.
- System 2 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 8GB of DDR3 memory running at 2.75GHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.

System 1 will never, ever win. There is nothing that can be done to make it win unless the developers do something to cripple System 2.

[davifus]

Put another, simpler way:

Imagine that you have two PCs sitting in front of you running Windows 7 x64. You start up Dead Rising 3 or (insert game here) on each system.
- System 1 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 5GB of DDR3 memory running at 853MHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.
- System 2 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 8GB of DDR3 memory running at 2.75GHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.

System 1 will never, ever win. There is nothing that can be done to make it win unless the developers do something to cripple System 2.

Simple for people who understands computers & tech.

[disgaeniac]

Put another, simpler way:

Imagine that you have two PCs sitting in front of you running Windows 7 x64. You start up Dead Rising 3 or (insert game here) on each system.
- System 1 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 5GB of DDR3 memory running at 853MHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.
- System 2 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 8GB of DDR3 memory running at 2.75GHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.

System 1 will never, ever win. There is nothing that can be done to make it win unless the developers do something to cripple System 2.

Simple for people who understands computers & tech.

Indeed!

Stop speaking "Tech" in a tech fer dummiez thread; most of us here won't understand that language 

[fazerco]

Put another, simpler way:

Imagine that you have two PCs sitting in front of you running Windows 7 x64. You start up Dead Rising 3 or (insert game here) on each system.
- System 1 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 5GB of DDR3 memory running at 853MHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.
- System 2 has an Intel Core i7 3770K CPU with 8GB of DDR3 memory running at 2.75GHz per DIMM and an Nvidia 660 Ti video card.

System 1 will never, ever win. There is nothing that can be done to make it win unless the developers do something to cripple System 2.

Simple for people who understands computers & tech.

Indeed!

Stop speaking "Tech" in a tech fer dummiez thread; most of us here won't understand that language 

Let me put a bom under this, by saying let me play system two, and a pro a that game on system one. I havent played the game, so i will lose 

[insektmute]

Stop speaking "Tech" in a tech fer dummiez thread; most of us here won't understand that language 

Hey, I try! Just be glad I'm not a teacher

[dashv]

This Tomb Raider review by IGN includes some great videos where the developers talk about the jump to next gen and how the consoles handle the TR reboot.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/01/25/tomb-raider-definitive-edition-review

It's very non-technical and sums up nicely what's been said here.

Short-short version?

The XBone version does not have the realistic skin lighting of the PS3 version, runs at slightly lower resolution (not true 1080p), and half the frame rate (30fps vs 60fps) of the PS4 version.

The PS4 is truly the definitive edition of the game.

I personally thing TR 2 is going to be a timed exclusive on the Xbone because MS knows without exclusivity the PS4 version would outsell the xbone version by several orders of magnitude.

The PS3 version of TR (which is graphically superior to the 360 version) accounts for 68% of the games sales across PS3 and Xbox 360 consoles.

[insektmute]

This Tomb Raider review by IGN includes some great videos where the developers talk about the jump to next gen and how the consoles handle the TR reboot.

The TR reboot is a good example of a real "next-gen" game, and the divide is only going to get worse between the two consoles. Higher resolutions and framerates are one thing, but newer games are increasingly pushing heavier and heavier particle effects and physics. Rain, dust, fire, wind, specular reflections, shadow opacity, all that good stuff.

I mean, Tomb Raider even has a dedicated hair physics engine, and it's actually really impressive in-game. Imagine that kind of tech applied to something like Bayonetta? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXRJZ1z3Fsg#t=31

The more complex and intensive that kind of stuff gets, the harder it's going to be for the Xbone to maintain even a 30fps rate.