SNES vs Genesis

[gf78]

Why didn't either system have an official light-gun? I've always wondered that. The stupid bazookas they put out were wieldly and not fun to play with.

We did get the Lethal Enforcers gun, but that was only for Konami games.

I mean, how cool would T2: The Arcade Game have been if we were actually able to use a gun?!

My guess is it had a lot to do with the timeframe of the consoles. Hand guns in kid's hands didn't sound like a good idea any more. And games in this time period were very much considered as toys more so than in the late 70's and early 80's.

The NES and Master System had light-guns before it. And arcades had guns during the SNES and Genesis era. I don't think people were wary about kids playing with guns quite yet, Columbine hadn't happened yet.

It was in 1989 that in the USA the government made it a law that all toy guns had to have orange tips. So kids having guns was very much on people's minds. It is even why the second iteration of the NES gun came in neon orange. The "16 bit" generation was also when Nintendo and Sega both had to appear before the US Senate to discuss video game violence. I think marketing a gun in this new generation wold have been bad form and both companies knew it.

I stand by my initial analysis, but I would love to hear if someone else has a different thought.

I forgot about that. I remember when I was a kid hearing about the story that sparked that. Some kid in a car waived his toy gun at a cop and the kid got shot (or something like that) because the gun looked so real.

Every toy gun since then has at least an orange end on the barrel.

[dashv]

Why didn't either system have an official light-gun? I've always wondered that. The stupid bazookas they put out were wieldly and not fun to play with.

We did get the Lethal Enforcers gun, but that was only for Konami games.

I mean, how cool would T2: The Arcade Game have been if we were actually able to use a gun?!

My guess is it had a lot to do with the timeframe of the consoles. Hand guns in kid's hands didn't sound like a good idea any more. And games in this time period were very much considered as toys more so than in the late 70's and early 80's.

The NES and Master System had light-guns before it. And arcades had guns during the SNES and Genesis era. I don't think people were wary about kids playing with guns quite yet, Columbine hadn't happened yet.

It was in 1989 that in the USA the government made it a law that all toy guns had to have orange tips. So kids having guns was very much on people's minds. It is even why the second iteration of the NES gun came in neon orange. The "16 bit" generation was also when Nintendo and Sega both had to appear before the US Senate to discuss video game violence. I think marketing a gun in this new generation wold have been bad form and both companies knew it.

I stand by my initial analysis, but I would love to hear if someone else has a different thought.

It is possible. It is hard, if not impossible, to find out when Nintendo and SEGA were aware of government interest in video game violence. From what I understand from many accounts, Nintendo and SEGA were both tipped off about the future hearings from a toy industry contact with a decent heads up before everything got started. I suspect this is 1993 (well into a year after the scopes were introduced)

Key Dates
Super Scope - February 92
SEGA Video Game Rating - June 93 (first sign that SEGA knew something. Would be implemented quickly.)
Congressional hearing - Dec 9 1993
Release of Doom - Dec 10 1993 (I love this date. One day after the hearing)

My suspicion is that the bazooka is just the next step from the light gun design and followed the current trend in the arcades the year before. It is the "super" version. You also had a move in the arcades to bigger guns such as the T2 arcade game in 91. In the early 90s bazookas and machine guns were cool in America. And light guns were marketed toward Americans. You also saw a return to traditional guns in consoles in the mid 90s when arcades mimicked those with point blank, virtue cop, etc.. I imagine it just followed the arcades.

Back since the thread seems to have cooled down.

1993 is when Howard Lincoln and the big wigs at SEGA were brought before congress. Here are the entire proceedings recorded from cspan:

http://youtu.be/AwIfnS1ewgQ

Here's another where they actually watch footage from Night Trap and blow it way out of proportion:
http://youtu.be/nD-Afpg4P2U

That ones dated 12/9/1993

Howard Lincoln of Nintendo threw SEGA so far under the bus I'm sure they could have read off the license plate if asked.

[dashv]

Around 12:30 in the second video they show the box art for Lethal Enforcers.

[DreamsDied13101]

It is possible. It is hard, if not impossible, to find out when Nintendo and SEGA were aware of government interest in video game violence. From what I understand from many accounts, Nintendo and SEGA were both tipped off about the future hearings from a toy industry contact with a decent heads up before everything got started. I suspect this is 1993 (well into a year after the scopes were introduced)

Key Dates
Super Scope - February 92
SEGA Video Game Rating - June 93 (first sign that SEGA knew something. Would be implemented quickly.)
Congressional hearing - Dec 9 1993
Release of Doom - Dec 10 1993 (I love this date. One day after the hearing)

My suspicion is that the bazooka is just the next step from the light gun design and followed the current trend in the arcades the year before. It is the "super" version. You also had a move in the arcades to bigger guns such as the T2 arcade game in 91. In the early 90s bazookas and machine guns were cool in America. And light guns were marketed toward Americans. You also saw a return to traditional guns in consoles in the mid 90s when arcades mimicked those with point blank, virtue cop, etc.. I imagine it just followed the arcades.

I could buy into this analysis. By the way I love your Sega Ages videos on YouTube.

[DreamsDied13101]

Yeah....just another idea Microsoft stole from Sony.   

You definitely love Sony and not Sega. Do you boycott the longbox releases of games like Battle Arena Toshinden and Rayman that had Saturn cases? In the end it was good news for Sony that they ran out of cases and had to go buy them from Sega who had blown the American market when they launched the Saturn. Funny how amazing the Saturn did in Japan and bombed in USA. I don't think Sony caught up with Sega in Japan for about two years (when Final Fantasy VII came out). Poor Nintendo 64 never caught up in Japan.

[kamikazekeeg]

I personally think the SNES is far more impactful with its library.  Not that there aren't any good games on the Genesis, but with the likes of Final Fantasy, Super Mario World, Chrono Trigger, A Link To The Past, Mega Man X, and others, there's just a lot of heavy hitters compared to the Genesis.  Also I've noticed a lot more stuff I've seen on the Genesis nowadays doesn't hold up like I remember.  Even Sonic that I use to remember liking isn't very fun to play compared to something that still plays great and fun like Super Mario World.

[burningdoom]

I agree on the SNES being better...But Sonic isn't fun anymore...whhhaaa??

[gf78]

I agree on the SNES being better...But Sonic isn't fun anymore...whhhaaa??

I think Sonic is still fun in small doses.  I always liked Sonic and it was a high point for me with the Genesis when it came out.  I remember buying Sonic 2 and sending a coupon in to Sega, receiving a free complete in box copy of the original Sonic.  Man...those were the days.  By the time Sonic 3 came out, the series was wearing itself thin for me.  Sonic and Knuckles pretty much broke me.  Even with the lock-on gimmick that added stuff to the old games....it was done for me.

I tried to like Sonic Adventure and it had fun parts.  But much like Mario's transition to 3D with Mario 64, something was lost for me.  I had no problem running around as Spyro, Crash, Croc or any number of other characters in a 3D world.  But Sonic and Mario always seemed like they should have stayed in the 2D realm of gaming.  It just never clicked for me.  I guess that's why when stuff like Sonic Anniversary and New Super Mario Bros. came out with the classic 2D gameplay, I was all over them like stink on $hit. 

[Warmsignal]

It's funny that people always mention the SNES JRPGs, but back in the day I never even knew those games existed, because I never knew anyone who played them. I only first heard of many of them when I got back into classic games. Square Soft and Enix games as I've come to know them, don't make much of an impression on me, so that's probably why I see the SNES and Genesis at a more level playing field.

[gf78]

It's funny that people always mention the SNES JRPGs, but back in the day I never even knew those games existed, because I never knew anyone who played them. I only first heard of many of them when I got back into classic games. Square Soft and Enix games as I've come to know them, don't wow me a whole lot, so that's probably why I see the SNES and Genesis at a more level playing field.

Wow...I can see how that would definitely affect your perception of the SNES.  Chrono Trigger alone left a huge impression on me.  I still remember those old commercials where at the end, the Japanese guy said "CHRONO TRIGGER!"  ActRaiser was a game I bought day-n-date with my SNES purchase.  Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Secret of Mana, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy II & III (V and VI in Japan), Secret of Evermore, Super Mario RPG, ActRaiser 2, Soul Blazer, 7th Saga, Illusion of Gaia...oh Illusion of Gaia how I loved you....these games were fantastic and truly set the SNES apart from the Genesis. 

Now add in the Nintendo-made classics.  Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Earthbound, F-Zero, Kirby, Punch-Out, Tetris, Yoshi...all the various entries in these iconic franchises.

Mix in some of the best in their respective series titles and the definitive editions of games like Super R-Type, Super Castlevania IV, Contra III, Super Ghouls & Ghosts, Earthworm Jim and three Super Star Wars titles. 

All that and you have the best system of the 16-bit era.

[kashell]

It's funny that people always mention the SNES JRPGs, but back in the day I never even knew those games existed, because I never knew anyone who played them. I only first heard of many of them when I got back into classic games. Square Soft and Enix games as I've come to know them, don't wow me a whole lot, so that's probably why I see the SNES and Genesis at a more level playing field.

Wow...I can see how that would definitely affect your perception of the SNES.  Chrono Trigger alone left a huge impression on me.  I still remember those old commercials where at the end, the Japanese guy said "CHRONO TRIGGER!"  ActRaiser was a game I bought day-n-date with my SNES purchase.  Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, Secret of Mana, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy II & III (V and VI in Japan), Secret of Evermore, Super Mario RPG, ActRaiser 2, Soul Blazer, 7th Saga, Illusion of Gaia...oh Illusion of Gaia how I loved you....these games were fantastic and truly set the SNES apart from the Genesis. 

Now add in the Nintendo-made classics.  Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong Country, Killer Instinct, Earthbound, F-Zero, Kirby, Punch-Out, Tetris, Yoshi...all the various entries in these iconic franchises.

Mix in some of the best in their respective series titles and the definitive editions of games like Super R-Type, Super Castlevania IV, Contra III, Super Ghouls & Ghosts, Earthworm Jim and three Super Star Wars titles. 

All that and you have the best system of the 16-bit era.

You actually enjoyed The 7th Saga? I never thought I would see the day that someone found something fun with that game.

[gf78]

You actually enjoyed The 7th Saga? I never thought I would see the day that someone found something fun with that game.

I can be a bit of a masochist sometimes. 

[kamikazekeeg]

I agree on the SNES being better...But Sonic isn't fun anymore...whhhaaa??

Not really.  I remember liking it alot before, but going back, it's such trial and error and the speed doesn't really let you see what is going on, so you get lots of cheap hits, and as a platformer, it's just alright.  I still like Sonic, but it became something I can't really go back to play much of.  There are other Genesis games like that too, like I played Vectorman at a game store and man is that basically not fun Mega Man lol.  Very much prefer playing something like Sonic Generations since it improves on the old style and the best of the 3D style.

Few SNES games make me feel the same.  Can't really think of any that I can't go back to play and enjoy anymore.

[gf78]

Wow. You're a class act, aren't you?

I think he blew a gasket and quit posting.  I really wasn't angry whatsoever.  I was sitting here at work, bored and typing replies.  Some people just take these things too seriously.   

[gf78]

Few SNES games make me feel the same.  Can't really think of any that I can't go back to play and enjoy anymore.

This pretty much sums it up for me.  Whenever I pop in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection, not a single game holds my interest for more than a few minutes any longer.  In that respect, sworddude was right.  Genesis games have a distinctively more "arcade-feel" than most SNES games.  They are meant to play in short bursts and thus, are far more forgettable. 

On the other hand, putting a SNES game in and starting it up, you feel like you are ready and in for the long haul.  I never turned on Super Metroid or Zelda or Donkey Kong Country with the expectation that I would be playing it for a few minutes.  Even in the SNES's time with limited system abilities and stories, the games drew me in.  And I wanted to stay in that fantastic world. 

If I think really hard, I can recall some of the music or moments from a handful of Genesis games.  Green Hill Zone from Sonic is the most memorable to me.  Or "Wise fwom yo gwave!" in the intro to Altered Beast.  On the other hand, the music of Zelda, Mario, Metroid and Final Fantasy among others is ingrained into my mind.  The music from Brinstar in Super Metroid still gives me goosebumps.  The Zelda theme is one of the most iconic pieces of music.  Who hasn't heard the Super Mario Bros. music?  The beautiful opening music for Final Fantasy.  The victory tune in Final Fantasy. 

The SNES controller.  What a fantastic controller.  One of the very first that I felt comfortable playing for hours on end.  Unlike Genesis shoehorning all the buttons on the front or worse-starting off with a three button clunker that you had to hit the start button to switch between kicks & punches in fighting games, the SNES pad introduced shoulder buttons.  Six face buttons work well for fighters, but suck for just about everything else.