Streaming and new video games

[desocietas]

With the recent announcement/request from Atlus today regarding Persona 5 (I'm not going to link their tweets since people have been commenting with spoilers), just thought I'd see what you all thought.

Some folks have reacted very angrily, and others have said it's a dangerous precedent. What are folks' thoughts?

I personally hate spoilers, but also don't feel like people should be restricted from sharing their experience if they want. A big risk of streaming live is that someone can come in and spoil the game for you at any second, but it's a risk you take when you go live with any game. Folks searching for playthroughs online might want to watch because they are unable to play it themselves for whatever reason or are interested in alternative ways to play or make decisions in-game. They obviously wouldn't care about spoiling the game for themselves.

I can see this coming up again depending on how folks react. Hugely anticipated games like Fallout 4 and such risked a lot of spoilers for streamers, so much so that someone created a bot to delete any messages with key spoiler words.

*To clarify*
Atlus asked people to limit gameplay footage being recorded to only certain parts of the games and no footage beyond a certain in-game date. Content published that goes against these wishes is subject to a takedown/channel strike.

[azure]

I detest spoilers, but it still doesn't sit right with me. Streaming is something that some people really enjoy, it's almost part of the new game release joy for them. The way I see it, is if you are going to jump into a stream of a game that you would not like to be spoiled on, that would be on you. I like the idea of trying to limit spoilers, but if that also means taking away streaming for people who enjoy it at certain points I just don't know. I do not stream, but I do know how much some people enjoy it along with playing their game, not mention their fans as well I'm sure. Someone can just spoil it online other places, like in a forum, YouTube comment, or even the chat on stream. So I don't know how much this would really help, then again I don't really watch streams so I could be missing something. Is this time sensitive? I think I remember recently some games having a time sensitive stream release, but then again it could have just been a nice request, not an enforcement.

[desocietas]

I detest spoilers, but it still doesn't sit right with me. Streaming is something that some people really enjoy, it's almost part of the new game release joy for them. The way I see it, is if you are going to jump into a stream of a game that you would not like to be spoiled on, that would be on you. I like the idea of trying to limit spoilers, but if that also means taking away streaming for people who enjoy it at certain points I just don't know. I do not stream, but I do know how much some people enjoy it along with playing their game, not mention their fans as well I'm sure. Someone can just spoil it online other places, like in a forum, YouTube comment, or even the chat on stream. So I don't know how much this would really help, then again I don't really watch streams so I could be missing something. Is this time sensitive? I think I remember recently some games having a time sensitive stream release, but then again it could have just been a nice request, not an enforcement.

AFAIK, there is no time/date indicator. I'd feel better if they asked this for the first month or so after launch, but it's not mentioned at all.

[azure]

I detest spoilers, but it still doesn't sit right with me. Streaming is something that some people really enjoy, it's almost part of the new game release joy for them. The way I see it, is if you are going to jump into a stream of a game that you would not like to be spoiled on, that would be on you. I like the idea of trying to limit spoilers, but if that also means taking away streaming for people who enjoy it at certain points I just don't know. I do not stream, but I do know how much some people enjoy it along with playing their game, not mention their fans as well I'm sure. Someone can just spoil it online other places, like in a forum, YouTube comment, or even the chat on stream. So I don't know how much this would really help, then again I don't really watch streams so I could be missing something. Is this time sensitive? I think I remember recently some games having a time sensitive stream release, but then again it could have just been a nice request, not an enforcement.

AFAIK, there is no time/date indicator. I'd feel better if they asked this for the first month or so after launch, but it's not mentioned at all.

Yeah I feel that would be an OK compromise as well. Not giving any time frame just implies Atlus never wants it properly streamed, which is a problem.

[fauxshot]

To keep it short and simple, my initial reaction:

I'm totally fine with them encouraging people not to share spoilery-content.

I'm totally not fine with content ID claims as a result, which not only limits freedom of showing/streaming content, but may also negatively impact reviews and have potential consequences if other games follow suit ("I'd like to show you how buggy the second half of the game is, but content-ID makes that near impossible"). Not to mention gaining access to certain in-game content for re-watching purposes, limiting VIDEO LENGTH (really???), etc.

I don't blame Atlus USA, though, they seemed to have stated that it wasn't their choice; as with Nintendo, it kinda sounds like it's the Japanese side of the business that's dictating these shitty-ass policies. YouTube obviously isn't helping, as usual.

[kamikazekeeg]

I think it's a terrible move on their part.  I understand the concept, there are people who do reviews and lets play and spoil everything to people in their feeds.  It sucks, but I'd just say to avoid watching those people.  Most lets plays I watch and suscribe to, they don't put spoilers in the title or thumbnail and its totally fine.  The idea that they don't want their game spoiled makes sense and I totally get where fans that can't play right away are coming from, but to go as far as saying they'll work to shut down someones account over it is harsh and unnecessary and should be considered a big negative from everyone.  It's backwards Japanese management once again.

[ignition365]

On the one hand, video games are like movies in that this content is owned by the respective IP-holders, so they can do what they want.  On the other hand, I see how it is annoying because people want to share their fun and such or look for videos showing how to get past a part of the game.

I can also see how a jealous developer could get cranky with the fact that say a big name Youtuber might make more money on a single video about your game than you would make from sales of the game, I know that shit baffles me and ticks me off.

Sakurai over at Nintendo didn't like that people shared clips on Youtube showing the cut scenes from Subspace Emissary in Smash Brawl, so much so that they completely scrapped having a story mode in Smash for Wii U/3DS.  I would much rather Nintendo throw content ID and channel strikes at people and get a story mode than let people post spoilers and make money off their hard work and not have a story mode.

So if this turned into Atlus saying Persona 6 will have no cut scenes or fun stuff because people couldn't be bothered to respect our wishes, I would much rather Atlus shut down Youtube channels than gimping the game because people have to be assholes.

I may be a little biased given that I'm a software developer and I don't stream or watch people stream.  But I will say, I've always been interested in streaming playing games.

[tripredacus]

They are basically saying that if you stream or make videos of the game, outside of their wishes, then you won't get ad revenue. This would imply that if you made a video that did fit within their guidelines, then you would not receive a Content-ID claim on Youtube. Unfortunately, that is not how Content-ID works.

I think that Atlus has no case to do a video takedown because their stipulations need to be agreed to upon grant of license. But they are not using this method, so it cannot be enforced. Someone will likely take them to court for this behaviour.

[desocietas]

Not sure if I'd put the story portions of Puyo Puyo Tetris up there with the likes of Persona 5's story, but apparently neither are allowed to be spoiled:

http://www.polygon.com/2017/4/6/15206878/puyo-puyo-tetris-video-streaming-restrictions-guidelines-sega

Very strange to me... I understand that story modes are a one-playthrough sort of thing sometimes, but sometimes people want to know what the story is without going through the actual gameplay...

[ignition365]

sometimes people want to know what the story is without going through the actual gameplay...

This kind of thing points to publishers fears that streaming takes away from sales... because why buy the game and play it when I can just watch someone else play it.

[kamikazekeeg]

sometimes people want to know what the story is without going through the actual gameplay...

This kind of thing points to publishers fears that streaming takes away from sales... because why buy the game and play it when I can just watch someone else play it.

Which I think has been shown to not really be very true.  Games like Persona have a pretty serious built in audience already that will guarantee sales.  The kind of people who might just watch a stream or lets play are people who have either never heard of the series or aren't interested enough to buy it.  I know streams and LP's are beneficial to a game also and people get turned onto them like this.  Once or twice I've stopped watching a stream because I didn't want to be spoiled any longer and decided I'd grab the game.

[turf]

Is this just on youtube or does it cover Twitch too?

[kamikazekeeg]

Is this just on youtube or does it cover Twitch too?

I assume both as they don't specify either.

[turf]

I didn't know how Twitch handled copyright strikes and such. 

[desocietas]

I didn't know how Twitch handled copyright strikes and such.

It hasn't really come up as far as I know, but Twitch did tweet out Atlus's warning about Persona 5 and asked that streamers be aware that they could come under fire from Atlus. I assume Atlus could go to Twitch and ask that a channel be shut down for violating terms of service / DMCA guidelines: https://www.twitch.tv/p/dmca-guidelines