Style Discussion: Editions and the Hyphen

[dhaabi]

Presently, the style guide is firm yet brief in how to format Edition titles in that the edition name is followed by a hyphen (-).  Aside from this blurb regarding formatting, there is not much else said.

Found in the Item Name post of the Advanced Style Guide:

The Hyphen and the Edition
Edition or re-release series titles are a descriptor that is put after the hyphen but before the TLD in an Item Name.
The wording should match what is actually written on the packaging.

Examples:
Red Dead Redemption - Complete Edition
Dungeons & Dragons: Mystara Eiyuu Senki - Limited Edition
Alien: Isolation - Édition Nostromo

Do not use marketing names in the item title. Many items are sold online or advertised by publishers under an edition names such as "First Print Limited Edition" or "Launch Edition" and these can only be used in an item title if the text is present on the item itself.

Multiple Editions?! OK so this is the drawback of this format. Currently for multiple editions, we use multiple hyphens.
Tales of Vesperia - Definitive Edition - Premium Edition

While there are a lot of types of situations and specific kinds of items regarding how to potentially title Edition items, my examples will be focusing on a specific subset of items, although the discussion to come can certainly and hopefully will explore other aspects to the Edition/Hyphen dilemma. That being said, the Edition rules of the style guide do not consider multi-pack items. I've encountered four different multi-pack Edition items, and the lack of consistency across the database throughout all four kinds and even within one kind itself is extremely lacking. I'm introducing this discussion thread and possible subsequent poll as a means to secure some basis of formatting consistency.

Below are four varying examples of each type of multi-pack Edition item I've come across:

#1 Multi-pack with each game having its own edition
Baldur’s Gate and Baldur's Gate II - Enhanced Editions

#2 Multi-pack with only one game having its own edition
Child of Light - Ultimate Edition / Valiant Hearts: The Great War

#3 Multi-pack with games having their own edition in addition to the dual pack itself having a formal Edition name
Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 - Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition

#4 Multi-pack with games having their own edition in addition to the dual pack having a formal non-Edition name
Galak-Z: The Void / Skulls of the Shogun: Bone-A-Fide Edition - Platinum Pack

Right now, I've considered two possible solutions to how multi-pack edition items may be formatted. The discussion to come may introduce other solutions.

Option 1 - Each title is formatted with its own hyphen when needed
Implication of this option being selected with examples
Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition / Baldur's Gate II - Enhanced Edition
Child of Light - Ultimate Edition / Valiant Hearts: The Great War
Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 - Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
Galak-Z: The Void / Skulls of the Shogun - Bone-A-Fide Edition Platinum Pack

Option 2 - Hyphens for each bundled edition game are ignored. Hyphens are only present when the bundled item itself is an Edition item.
Implication of this option being selected with examples
Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition / Baldur's Gate II Enhanced Edition
Child of Light Ultimate Edition / Valiant Hearts: The Great War
Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
Galak-Z: The Void / Skulls of the Shogun Bone-A-Fide Edition Platinum Pack

While my examples focus on multi-pack Edition releases, there are many other scenarios which the current Edition style guide rules do not consider. For instance, another example to consider is for items that have "Edition" in their title but do not accurately depict the item itself to be an Edition variant, such as many Pokémon games like Pokémon Diamond Version compared to Pokémon - Edición Diamante.

[tripredacus]

So there is another direction to this issue of using hyphens on Editions. The original text from the Style Guide is still present:

Keeping in the spirit of accuracy: Collector's/ Limited Editions which are releases in a separate retail box should have the artwork depicting the retail packaging, rather than the DVD case's artwork. If the Special Edition is only a special DVD case and not in a different box, then the artwork will be of the DVD case. Also, any game that came included with a special controller, microphone, guitar, etc should have the full retail packaging as the box art.

Which has an implication but is not definitive, as in it does not relate to whether Edition formatting is specifically for game titles or physical releases. The wording does seem to indicate that the usage of hyphen is only supposed to be done for physical releases and not for game titles. Also note that there was not any mention stating that a hyphen should be what was used. This is actually from further down, despite it having been modified over time the original text using the term "dash" is present.

Games denoting Special/Limited Editions, Box Sets, re-release series and/or special packs: The dash "-" is meant to show special releases, such as limited or collector's editions, greatest hits/ player's choice and any other special release or compilation. Of course, if a game is a special release with variations it would look something like this. Chrono Cross - Greatest Hits or Chrono Cross - Greatest Hits (Silver Backed Disc).

So I present a futher option, option 3 which would be like so:
3. Releases with Editions, box/packs, or re-release series use the hyphen in Item title but Releases that have "n Edition" in their title do not.
Implication of this option being selected with examples:
Child of Light Ultimate Edition / Valiant Hearts: The Great War
Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter EX Edition - Taikenban (SLPM-80382)
Street Fighter II Special Champion Edition

The main difference here is third option, where Street Fighter EX Edition is the game title and is not a seperate edition (as in a special release) than Street Fighter (obv there is no Street Fighter release). Method 3 would also remove the need for the "multiple editions, multiple hyphens" situation outlined in the Adv Guide.

[dhaabi]

So I present a futher option, option 3 which would be like so:
3. Releases with Editions, box/packs, or re-release series use the hyphen in Item title but Releases that have "n Edition" in their title do not.

This is a better wording for how I originally envisioned Option 2.

I've come across an example for how, if we abide by the current Edition rules, the entry name becomes an issue to address. "Rocksmith 2014 Edition" is the base game. With the current rules, it becomes "Rocksmith - 2014 Edition," which is fairly straightforward. However, the 2014 Edition title was given a remastered version, with GameFAQs offering its title name as "Rocksmith 2014 Edition: Remastered." Using our current style guide guidelines, the existing entries within the database would have the title of "Rocksmith - 2014 Edition: Remastered." While I've never come across a colon in the edition name before, the idea of such an item being given a proper Edition version that would result in something like "Rocksmith - 2014 Edition: Remastered - Limited Edition" becomes problematic.

[tripredacus]

Ok, I had put that as a separate option because the original idea you had dealt specifically with multi-packs.

I think we both agree that 2/3 is better than existing but we still need more interaction in this thread before a poll can be made. If no one posts their thoughts about this, then we could consider that this is a topic no one really cares about and/or that existing rules are fine even if not optimal. But we'll see if anyone chimes in.

[ignition365]

Because I don't recall, but is it possible some of this could fall into the colon category?  I can't recall how we handle games with multiple subtitles like Sniper: Ghost Warrior: Contracts.  It seems to me that the game title edition would fall as a possible subtitle/expansion text whereas the physical release edition would fall under the special pack category.

Sniper: Ghost Warrior: Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3: Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
Child of Light: Ultimate Edition / Valiant Hearts: The Great War
Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter: EX Edition - Taikenban (SLPM-80382)
Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition / Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
Galak-Z: The Void / Skulls of the Shogun: Bone-A-Fide Edition - Platinum Pack

If so, I propose this as option 3.  Treat game title editions as expansion/subtitle text, and physical release text as special pack text.

[tripredacus]

I can't recall how we handle games with multiple subtitles like Sniper: Ghost Warrior: Contracts.

That multiple subtitle/colon issue was resolved by using GameFaqs names as common name.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps4/245806-sniper-ghost-warrior-contracts

It is clunky because sometimes they are not all using the same format over there, but at least we don't have to figure it out ourselves. You can see this formatting difference by searching for the series name.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/search?game=sniper+ghost+warrior

[tripredacus]

Bump on this if further discussion is needed or if it is poll time.

[ignition365]

Yeah, to follow up, afaik we are naming all of these games wrong as it is.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/663934-baldurs-gate-ii-enhanced-edition
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/switch/254640-child-of-light-ultimate-edition-valiant-hearts-the-great-war
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/switch/266181-skulls-of-the-shogun-bone-a-fide-edition

They all use colon to separate like I'm suggesting, in which case we use the hyphen to separate physical product packaging editioning like exists.

I think I'm suggesting that a vote isn't even necessary as we already account for this.  The game itself is named including the "edition" a la gamefaqs, but the physical packaging has its own edition which we already differentiate with a hyphen.

[tripredacus]

Yeah, to follow up, afaik we are naming all of these games wrong as it is.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/663934-baldurs-gate-ii-enhanced-edition
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/switch/254640-child-of-light-ultimate-edition-valiant-hearts-the-great-war
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/switch/266181-skulls-of-the-shogun-bone-a-fide-edition

They all use colon to separate like I'm suggesting, in which case we use the hyphen to separate physical product packaging editioning like exists.

I think I'm suggesting that a vote isn't even necessary as we already account for this.  The game itself is named including the "edition" a la gamefaqs, but the physical packaging has its own edition which we already differentiate with a hyphen.

This is about semantics. Our rules are all "editions" get hyphens, but we do not have anything about when "edition" is part of a game's name, rather than being a special release like the original examples in the Style Guide.

EDIT: also we also only use "game titles" when referencing GameFAQs and not edition names, as often the Edition names on their entries are wrong. Their use of edition names are in parenthesis.

[dhaabi]

They all use colon to separate like I'm suggesting, in which case we use the hyphen to separate physical product packaging editioning like exists.

GameFAQs is incredibly inconsistent with their entry titles. Here is an Edition title that has the edition name separated by a hyphen—not a colon. Not only is their information user-generated much like VGC (meaning a lot of submitted information is incorrect), but, at times, titles will be approved and maintained differently from what the packaging actually states. I've had several experiences in trying to update GameFAQs entry names where my submission was rejected due to the current entry name being "how the publisher" wants it to be, among various other reasons.

[ignition365]

As a response to both of you.  Our rules state to copy game name from gamefaqs.  Edition name in most of these instances are part of the game name itself, thus copy gamefaqs because that is what our rule states to do for game names.  Then hyphen physical release name that is separate of the game name.

How do you know whats game name and physical release name?  Compare with gamefaqs... that's our measuring stick.

[tripredacus]

To summarise and to get this going a little more. This is to determine how pervasive the use of a hyphen is. Whether to limit the use of a hyphen to any "Edition name" or to items that have specific editions and/or re-release series as laid out in the Style Guide. I will leave out the second option regarding how multi-packs are handled because I think that solving this hyphen issue will automatically answer that question. I will add an additional option based on re-releases only so that it can potentially be decided also.

The options are as follows (examples in red of method 1/3 are the cause for the discussion, examples in green of alternative options showing how changes would look and do not necessarily mean they are "better" options)

Method 1: Continue to use the currently adopted way of using a hyphen on all edition names. This ignores common name rules for game that have "Edition" in their game titles.
• Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition
• Fallout: New Vegas - Collector's Edition
• Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 - Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
• Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter - EX Edition - Taikenban (SLPM-80382)
• Street Fighter II - Special Champion Edition
• Grand Theft Auto III - Greatest Hits
• Super Smash Bros. Melee - Player's Choice
• Daikatana - Sold Out Software
• Ghostbusters II - The Hit Squad

Method 2: Use the original Style Guide as it exactly is written under Games denoting Special/Limited Editions, Box Sets, re-release series and/or special packs. This takes into account common name rules for games that have "Edition" names in their titles.
• Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition
• Fallout: New Vegas - Collector's Edition
• Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3: Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
• Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter EX Edition - Taikenban (SLPM-80382)
• Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
• Grand Theft Auto III - Greatest Hits
• Super Smash Bros. Melee - Player's Choice
• Daikatana - Sold Out Software
• Ghostbusters II - The Hit Squad

Method 3: Change the original Style Guide to use hyphen for all Edition names and budget re-release versions use a descriptor instead. (This uses combination of Method 1 for edition naming)
• Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition
• Fallout: New Vegas - Collector's Edition
• Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3 - Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
• Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter - EX Edition - Taikenban (SLPM-80382)
• Street Fighter II - Special Champion Edition
• Grand Theft Auto III (Greatest Hits)
• Super Smash Bros. Melee (Player's Choice)
• Daikatana (Sold Out Software)
• Ghostbusters II (The Hit Squad)

Method 4: Change the original Style Guide to use hyphen for extra Edition releases only and budget re-release versions use a descriptor instead. (This uses combination of Method 2 for edition naming)
• Dragon Age: Origins - Ultimate Edition
• Fallout: New Vegas - Collector's Edition
• Sniper: Ghost Warrior Contracts / Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3: Season Pass Edition - Unlimited Edition
• Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter EX Edition - Taikenban (SLPM-80382)
• Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition
• Grand Theft Auto III (Greatest Hits)
• Super Smash Bros. Melee (Player's Choice)
• Daikatana (Sold Out Software)
• Ghostbusters II (The Hit Squad)

Pack names for hardware and accessories will remain unchanged.
Method 3/4 just to give another option. Have been thinking about tabling this for awhile but I would understand if people didn't like changing things like Greatest Hits into a descriptor.

[tripredacus]

Last bump before poll creation.