Author Topic: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?  (Read 362 times)

PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« on: June 18, 2022, 11:45:01 am »
Im making this post because this has happened quite a few times recently and i dont understand why.

I recently updated 119529 with disc and back cover images and the disc was accepted and the back cover disallowed and then you changed entry to [FR].  There is only one entry of this game in the PS2 EU database, to my knowledge there are only 2 releases of it in total, the EU release and the US release.  So i have no idea why this has been changed to French release, there was literally never a French release of this game.

I do notice that the Barcode is wrong on the entry but i dont like to change them as you usually never accept barcode changes. 

dhaabi

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2022, 12:19:39 pm »
There literally was a French release of Off-Road Wide Open. And a German release. And a Spanish release.

Some of your edit submissions for 119529 were rejected because they are attempting to convert the entry into something it was not intended to represent. As you can tell by the entry history, the barcode information 3546430021040 is original to the entry as no changes have been made to that field since it had been submitted. This is the barcode found on the FR release. Even though front cover art is incorrect, many entries are submitted with incorrect box art, so that is not a clear indication as to what an entry is or is not. On the other hand, barcode information gives a clear indicator as to what an entry is intended to represent.

The same can be said of 60369 and 77300 that you made edit submissions for. As for why some edit submissions were approved such as disc art, that is because the disc for European PlayStation 2 games is often the same (although it is not all the time, such as with 60369.

Because entry conversions are not allowed, new entries instead should be submitted if one is wanting to submit that information. It is very common for entries in European categories to be incorrect in some capacity, as many users do not provide ideal information that helps discern one regional variant from another. In many cases, an item that is neither the UK or general Europe version will be titled as such without any clarifying TLD information. These kinds of errors have existed for years and years while many users presumably add these items to their accounts in error.

You've been updating PlayStation 2 entries over the last week or so, and I had made effort then in submitting new entries that represent the UK or general Europe release when edits were rejected, but I did not do so with the latest round of items.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 12:31:31 pm by dhaabi »

leonefamily

PRO Supporter

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2022, 01:29:57 pm »
That spanish release is so appealing to me. I don't have a PS2 [ES] release in my collection yet, that would be neat. But the seller doesn't ship to North America, oh well :'(
Freeze iou imperialist pig! Zat is ze propertay of ze Gouvernement Français. Hand eet over!

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2022, 05:43:54 pm »
You've been updating PlayStation 2 entries over the last week or so, and I had made effort then in submitting new entries that represent the UK or general Europe release when edits were rejected, but I did not do so with the latest round of items.[/font]

Maybe the issue is the fact that alot of the entries i am amending only have one entry for the game, and that one entry you have listed is the most obscure rarest one.

Basically why have only the French release entered into database when the EU release is the most popular?

The only thing that signifies its the French release is the barcode, and lets be honest, nobody checks that.

When a casual collector looks up their game in your database they search the title and see just one listed in the EU, the rarest release, French/Spanish/German.  When they almost certainly have the most common EU release.

I mean its pretty obvious when you have just one listing in your database and its the French release with no data except the barcode indicating its the French release.  Even the artwork is the EU common release and you have 13 people saying they have this game.  The point is that they all dont have the French release.   Theyve just chosen that release because its the only one in your database.  Nothing in the entry says its the French release.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 05:49:18 pm by endemonadia »

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2022, 05:54:12 pm »
For example, look at the entry i tried to amend as the common EU 119529 and you decided its the French edition so you amended the title to include [FR] and declined my changes.

The front cover image which was already there before i tried to amend is the common EU release.  The French release you have linked on Ebay has a different cover.

So, the barcode was French and the cover image was EU before i tried to amend.

Can you see now how easy it is to not see which release you guys want it to be?
« Last Edit: June 18, 2022, 05:59:13 pm by endemonadia »

dhaabi

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2022, 11:14:37 am »
You've been updating PlayStation 2 entries over the last week or so, and I had made effort then in submitting new entries that represent the UK or general Europe release when edits were rejected, but I did not do so with the latest round of items.[/font]

Maybe the issue is the fact that alot of the entries i am amending only have one entry for the game, and that one entry you have listed is the most obscure rarest one.

Basically why have only the French release entered into database when the EU release is the most popular?

The only thing that signifies its the French release is the barcode, and lets be honest, nobody checks that.

When a casual collector looks up their game in your database they search the title and see just one listed in the EU, the rarest release, French/Spanish/German.  When they almost certainly have the most common EU release.

I mean its pretty obvious when you have just one listing in your database and its the French release with no data except the barcode indicating its the French release.  Even the artwork is the EU common release and you have 13 people saying they have this game.  The point is that they all dont have the French release.   Theyve just chosen that release because its the only one in your database.  Nothing in the entry says its the French release.

To clarify, that one version of an item is more widely owned than another version is irrelevant to us as database contributors. As a database, we must preserve the original identity and intent to an entry's creation. Actually, I've already explained this principle to you once before in this thread some time ago.

Taking 119529 again as an example, at any point in time after the entry was created, users have had every means to view its untouched entry information where the FR barcode is clearly provided. If users did notice it, then they made no efforts in either correcting the entry or submitting an entry for the item that they are meaning to interact with, which means that they found the entry fit for their needs. However, neither of those actions had been made over the course of five years until now, where the problem has been solved.

As something to note, the majority of our users do not care about adding the correct item to their accounts, meaning that they are not concerned with regional or variant releases. Instead, they are more concerned with simply adding game data to their account, so they overlook any finer details other than entry name and sometimes even images in art slots. So, just because there are users like yourself who do not pay attention to certain entry information fields such as Barcode, that does not mean that we should disregard any user's intent when they originally submitted an entry, because other users do care about these aspects.


The front cover image which was already there before i tried to amend is the common EU release.  The French release you have linked on Ebay has a different cover.

So, the barcode was French and the cover image was EU before i tried to amend.

I touched on this sentiment in my previous post. Entries are regularly submitted with incorrect artwork. Because of this, any discerning information in the Item Number and Barcode fields take precedence in determining an entry's identity.

I did not decide that 119529 is FR. It was originally submitted as being FR, regardless of their being a formal [FR] TLD being attached as part of the entry name or not.

dhaabi

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2022, 11:17:43 am »
That spanish release is so appealing to me. I don't have a PS2 [ES] release in my collection yet, that would be neat. But the seller doesn't ship to North America, oh well :'(

You may find this other listing from eBay UK interesting then. It seems as if they ship to Canada.  ;)

sworddude

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2022, 04:02:49 pm »
Im making this post because this has happened quite a few times recently and i dont understand why.

I recently updated 119529 with disc and back cover images and the disc was accepted and the back cover disallowed and then you changed entry to [FR].  There is only one entry of this game in the PS2 EU database, to my knowledge there are only 2 releases of it in total, the EU release and the US release.  So i have no idea why this has been changed to French release, there was literally never a French release of this game.

I do notice that the Barcode is wrong on the entry but i dont like to change them as you usually never accept barcode changes.

I do agree with that, from time to time entries get randomly changed to different region versions name tage wise.

especially german or french releases. and that is while almost every european collector on the site has that game in the collection because it was the only listing. with like say 100+ people which now have the wrong version in the collection while the change was made. previously it served more as a neutral variant.

It is very obvious because than, you see a new entry with the correct region wich is brand new with very few people within it. because they didn't realise yet that someone changed the region.

the change only benefitted a minority who had it listed within their collection.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 05:12:55 pm by sworddude »
Your Stylish Sword Master!



tripredacus

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2022, 09:58:47 am »
In the early years of the site, our edit approval admins did not always verify the edits were correct compared to existing information. This led to a large amount of frankenstein entries in many categories, and also region free EU games in NA categories (this is still an issue in the Atari cats). Another issue is that a lot of people had submitted items using GameFAQs art for EU items and GameFAQs has a large amount of mismatched front and back covers where back covers are France or Netherlaneds versions.

Quote
with like say 100+ people which now have the wrong version in the collection.

No, they have always had the wrong version in their collection.

fazerco

PRO Supporter

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2022, 01:01:54 pm »
Make sure you ad the barcode when enterring a game. Its the only save option because that shouldnt be changed anymore.

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2022, 03:03:57 pm »
I think some issues definitely come from older submissions where data is either missing or inaccurate to the original submission. Where barcodes are available, its normally fairly easy to give them a quick search and find the appropriate country for the item. There are other instances where the item can be misleading too, such as french text being on the box art alongside the red warning - but the item is only released in the Netherlands and Belgium. In other instances some nordic countries can have their own releases rather then them being grouped together (which is seemingly pretty standard) causing incorrect TLD's to be on items.

Personally when I navigate the database to add to my collection - I'll add a note if my items barcode differs to the one given, just so I know I need to add a new submission at a later point/ I have a different variant.


dhaabi

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2022, 06:59:16 pm »
As others above have now mentioned, many of these issues are a result of old entries lacking crucial information. However, many new entries are still submitted with very limited field information. With modern items that are submitted as new entries, I try my best to provide barcode information to them if the field is left blank so that this problem can become less common moving forward. However, since our database has over 200,00 live entries, it will simply take time to address many of the European entries that feature conflicting details.

Make sure you ad the barcode when enterring a game. Its the only save option because that shouldnt be changed anymore.

Adding barcode information is definitely a big help in determining what an item is. However, other information such as any item numbers is just as important since it isn't uncommon for European releases across varying regions to feature the same barcode. PlayStation items in particular across all five generations in addition to many modern Nintendo items provide plenty of item numbers on outer packaging that should ideally ensure that every variant entry is clear as to what they are, so providing that information in the Description field is encouraged too.

sworddude

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2022, 04:03:24 pm »
In the early years of the site, our edit approval admins did not always verify the edits were correct compared to existing information. This led to a large amount of frankenstein entries in many categories, and also region free EU games in NA categories (this is still an issue in the Atari cats). Another issue is that a lot of people had submitted items using GameFAQs art for EU items and GameFAQs has a large amount of mismatched front and back covers where back covers are France or Netherlaneds versions.

Quote
with like say 100+ people which now have the wrong version in the collection.

No, they have always had the wrong version in their collection.

not really, Like say older pokemon titles

english box art english title, for some random reason changed into a german or french entries. I could argue the same for quite some other titles in the past, they had english box art and got altered to something different

There is no mistaken why people have choosen that entry. There is only 1 version in europe with the english name and that's the english dutch version. in pretty much every other country it would have had an alternate name,

yet even though it had an english title and box everything got changed to a german or french entry with the altrnate name.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 04:09:55 pm by sworddude »
Your Stylish Sword Master!



dhaabi

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2022, 04:13:56 pm »
In the early years of the site, our edit approval admins did not always verify the edits were correct compared to existing information. This led to a large amount of frankenstein entries in many categories, and also region free EU games in NA categories (this is still an issue in the Atari cats). Another issue is that a lot of people had submitted items using GameFAQs art for EU items and GameFAQs has a large amount of mismatched front and back covers where back covers are France or Netherlaneds versions.

Quote
with like say 100+ people which now have the wrong version in the collection.

No, they have always had the wrong version in their collection.

not really, Like say older pokemon titles

english box art english title, for some random reason changed into a german or french entry

There is no mistaken why people have choosen that entry. There is only 1 version in europe with the english name and that's the english dutch version. in pretty much every other country it would have had an alternate name,

yet even though it had an english title and box everything got changed to a german or french entry with the altrnate name.

You would need to link to a specific example so that it would be easier to explain why the entry was "changed" to something else. However, since the History tab for entry pages currently doesn't list out the details that were originally submitted but instead only subsequent changes, we can't be certain as to why every time unless the admin who approved the changes themselves explains it. As previously mentioned, some edit approval admins many years ago didn't use to always verify all information—this is something that I believe has changed. Personally, I am very particular about what is and isn't approved and try to explain why an edit was rejected via PM when the reason isn't so obvious.

All that said, in addition to entries commonly being submitted with the wrong artwork, the same can be said for entry names too. It isn't uncommon for items with non-English names being submitted with English names, even if the localized name is being used on the packaging.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 04:15:49 pm by dhaabi »

leonefamily

PRO Supporter

Re: PS2 Why are some entries being changed to [FR]?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2022, 09:28:20 pm »
The only thing that signifies its the French release is the barcode, and lets be honest, nobody checks that.

Actually, I do. Because there are releases that sometimes look identical but in reality have different barcodes, so I always double-check.
Freeze iou imperialist pig! Zat is ze propertay of ze Gouvernement Français. Hand eet over!