Author Topic: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread  (Read 67820 times)

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #75 on: January 16, 2024, 10:23:27 am »
Thanks. I put media number as a higher priority than hidden numbers.

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #76 on: February 29, 2024, 10:02:17 am »
Updated Formatting section to Description post on ADV Guide to use the description template with examples that has been used internally for some time.

https://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php/topic,10837.msg178499.html#msg178499

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #77 on: July 30, 2024, 11:52:52 am »
Feedback re PS1 [EU] portion

Info for Spain
1. Some releases have a Llévate gratis un juego PlayStation Platinum ver interior label on front. This phrase does not have Google Search results.
https://www.ebay.es/itm/126502760206
https://www.ebay.es/itm/256347612146

2. Proein distributor label
https://www.ebay.es/itm/126520297565

3. Lamee distributor label (not unique to PlayStation)
- Crash Bandicoot 2 example is in the comments of this page near the bottom
https://foro.spinecard.com/t/juegos-y-sus-cajas/1959
- Siphon Filter
https://es.wallapop.com/item/syphon-filter-ps1-pal-esp-1000451203
- Wrecking Crew
https://www.ebay.es/itm/225843960130

dhaabi

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #78 on: July 31, 2024, 10:09:19 am »
Feedback re PS1 [EU] portion

Info for Spain

The PlayStation [EU] post has been updated. I had come across the Llévate gratis un juego PlayStation Platinum ver interior label before at some point, but the other two label types are new to me. I wasn't sure how important it is to feature all three different Lamee distribution labels, but I did so anyway. Beyond color differences, the darker blue label formats its text differently too.

dhaabi

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #79 on: November 20, 2024, 10:35:09 am »
The Item Number post of the Advanced Style Guide would benefit from added information to the Items with multiple item numbers on the spine section.

Knowing how to properly format the Item Number field when multiple Sony serials are present would be beneficial. Specifically, it is not clear when the multiple serials are positioned on multiple lines.

Sometimes, the two serials are full:
SLUS-00879
SLUS-00900


And other times, only the first serial is full and the second is shortened:
ULES
00645
00869
7063491


Across various entries, I've seen this type of information formatted in the Item Number field in one of two ways:
SLUS-00879, SLUS-00900 or SLUS-00879/SLUS-00900
ULES-00645, 00869 or ULES-00645/00869
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 12:17:47 pm by dhaabi »

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #80 on: November 20, 2024, 12:01:28 pm »
The item number field should only have 1 item number in it. If there are two, the the first one should be used, and additional ones go into description.

dhaabi

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #81 on: November 20, 2024, 12:24:13 pm »
The item number field should only have 1 item number in it. If there are two, the the first one should be used, and additional ones go into description.

Does this extend to single-line, multi-number Sony serials then? Or serials which are one full sequence but utilize dividers? Because they seem no different than at least one of the aforementioned examples. For each of these items besides the multi-pack, the Sony serial represents the entire item and only that item. For instance, there is no product with serial SLUS-01251. Instead, there is only SLUS-01251/01295-01297. SLUS-01251 itself represents Disc 1 and not Final Fantasy IX. Keep in mind I am only referring to the Sony serial and not secondary item numbers.

SLUS-01251/01295-01297 to SLUS-01251


SLPS-02000~3 to SLPS-02000


SLUS-00662/00668/90028 to SLUS-00662
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 12:35:23 pm by dhaabi »

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #82 on: November 22, 2024, 10:56:18 am »
SLPS-02000~3 is ok but the others should just be the first.

dhaabi

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #83 on: November 23, 2024, 10:28:54 am »
The issue here is that what "one" item number is isn't clearly defined while being arbitrarily ruled in this moment. SLPS 02000~3 as one item number is no different than the examples I've presented. Four of five are abbreviated, though the formatting means varies.

SLPS 02000~3 is shortened from SLPS 02000/SLPS 02001/SLPS 02002/SLPS 02003
SLUS-01251/01295-01297 is shortened from SLUS-1251/SLUS-01295/SLUS-01296/SLUS-01297
SLUS-00662/00668/90028 is shortened from SLUS-00662/SLUS-00668/SLUS-90028
ULES 00645 00865 is shortened from ULES 00645/ULES 00865

There is also an argument that
SLUS-00879
SLUS-00900
is one sequence despite being formatted on two separate lines. It appears no different than other items with multi-line formatting styles, as often seen within the Xbox family. In those instances, we treat a line break as a space.

None of the five example items I've presented, by your definition, have "one" item number but are one single item number sequence.

Just like we have a rule that Sony serials must include a hyphen ( - ) when submitted as Item Number field data whether it's present or not, the same sort of guideline can just as easily be enforced with a forward slash ( / ) in these instances of long-chain, multi-part item number sequences specific to the Sony serial itself (therefore not secondary information such as 7063491 from the Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops / Silent Hill: Origins item) while maintaining the original formatting convention. Such a rule would instead allow these inputs:

SLPS-02000~3
SLUS-01251/01295-01297
SLUS-00662/00668/90028
ULES-00645/00865
SLUS-00879/SLUS-00900 or SLUS-00879 SLUS-00900

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #84 on: November 25, 2024, 11:20:03 am »
SLPS-02000~3
SLUS-01251/01295-01297
SLUS-00662/00668/90028
ULES-00645/00865
SLUS-00879/SLUS-00900 or SLUS-00879 SLUS-00900[/font]

I shall look at it again. All of the above examples except the one marked in red are valid as item numbers. We don't need to infer what the numbers are supposed to mean, we are only putting a number that is printed somewhere into a field. But the case of the red one, these are two numbers so only one should be used. This is another situation where we make a choice for a field due to a limitation. Ideally we would want the ability to attach multiple item numbers to an object instead of one.

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #85 on: January 07, 2025, 10:58:06 am »
Adv Guide updated

Item Name
Added link to online capitalization tool

ASCII Codes for non-Latin characters
updated select copypasta
mentioned charmap
added links to ASCII chart and Lexilogos

Research Assits
New post
Links to translators, image editors, image hosts, reverse image search
Added info relating to Google Dorks and Boolean operator usage

Other Online Databases
New post
Links to other reference sites

dhaabi

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #86 on: March 22, 2025, 10:29:52 am »
Feedback for Non-English language info post:

Here is a small list of common Japanese terms to add:
豪華版 - Goukaban
初回生産版 - Shokai Seisan-ban
初回限定生産版 - Shokai Gentei Seisan-ban
初回限定版 - Shokai Genteiban
特別版 - Tokubetsu-ban
取扱説明書 - Toriatsukai Setsumeisho (instruction booklet)
(It may make more sense to simply list the individual words (e.g. 初回, 特別, 限定) as they are formed together in various ways to create compound terms, but perhaps not.)

The プレス (Press) example can also be removed. It is not a common term found across Japanese releases, and I can readily find only one example of it being used in the database.

Also, how should entry names be formatted regarding their capitalization when their local language has its own rules? For instance, French. I have come across several different sources which vary in explaining the rule—some say to only capitalize the first letter of a title/subtitle, others say that it's dependent on the presence of a definitive article, and even more have more convoluted explanations. For instance, this entry's name is formatted as Baten Kaitos: Les ailes éternelles et l'océan perdu.

Additionally, French spacing has its own rules too. I can't find any entry examples at the moment (though I have encountered them numerous times before), but I have seen many French entry names follow this format: Title : Subtitle, including the extra space preceding the colon ( : ). Here is a simple reference chart I found detailing which grammar symbols require the additional space and which don't alongside a page going through various symbols with example usage.

So, for the above two French rules, should we continue to adopt English formatting like with this entry that's formatted as Prince of Persia: Les Sables du Temps? Or adopt local rules?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 11:19:32 am by dhaabi »

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #87 on: March 22, 2025, 11:46:32 am »

Also, how should entry names be formatted regarding their capitalization when their local language has its own rules? For instance, French. I have come across several different sources which vary in explaining the rule—some say to only capitalize the first letter of a title/subtitle, others say that it's dependent on the presence of a definitive article, and even more have more convoluted explanations. For instance, this entry's name is formatted as Baten Kaitos: Les ailes éternelles et l'océan perdu.


Native French here, I feel compelled to answer. I don’t think there is a strict grammar rule here, as the game cited here examplifies you can go without capitalization in titles, but you can also go with, although usually not as much as english does: you only want to capitalize the most meaningful / important words (afaik you won’t get anything stricter than that), usually that means mostly nouns, adjectives and verbs (except maybe the auxilliary verbs être and avoir), but articles, conjuctions, etc. are usually excluded, except if the first word of the title.


Additionally, French spacing has its own rules too. I can't find any entry examples at the moment (though I have encountered them numerous times before), but I have seen many French entry names follow this format: Title : Subtitle, including the extra space preceding the colon ( : ). Here is a simple reference chart I found detailing which grammar symbols require the additional space and which don't alongside a page going through various symbols with example usage.

So, for the above two French rules, should we continue to adopt English formatting like with this entry that's formatted as Prince of Persia: Les Sables du Temps? Or adopt local rules?[/font]


This is a little more subtle than that. First the general rule regards all double typographical signs, namely « » : ; ? !. All of those must be followed by a space and preceded by a non-breakable space (except for the opening french quotation mark « where you swap the space and non-breakable space. But, this rule only applies strictly in France, and maybe in Belgium and Luxembourg for french only. As for other countries, I know that in Switzerland it is not uncommon to read french text written with german typography (and vice versa), I might be wrong but I think Quebec follows the same typography as Canadian english (which I assume is the same as US english?), and I have little idea for other french-speaking countries around the world.

So, whatever new rule that would differ from english, I have the feeling NA games with french in the title (assuming any exists) should still follow english typography (except if I am wrong and a québécois can correct me).

Note that it is usually acceptable to use spaces everywhere, given non-breakable spaces are the same length and usually hard to input anyway.

As for bilingual texts, typographical rules always loosen a bit, with the possibility to pick one language’s ruleset or the other depending of what seems best. But let’s take a few examples:
  • https://vgcollect.com/item/93115: this one I would keep english rule, i.e. Prince of Persia: Les Sable du Temps; the reason being the colon follows directly a proposition in english, it makes more sense to me to not put a space there.
  • https://vgcollect.com/item/118459: this one I would apply french rule, i.e. Baten Kaitos : Les ailes éternelles et l’océan perdu; the reason being Baten Kaitos is an old latinization of the modern Batn Qaytus, the arabic name for the Zeta Ceti constellation. Here Baten Kaitos is not more english than french, since it’s two arabic proper names written in latin characters, so I have the feeling the whole sentence can be read as french, with two proper names for the series title.
  • https://vgcollect.com/item/178382: this one I would again apply french rule, i.e. Crash Bandicoot : La Vengeance de Cortex; the reason being Crash Bandicoot is the name of the main character, even in the french translation (and bandicoot, the animal, is written the exact same in english and french).

Hope that helped.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 11:54:46 am by bobi »

tripredacus

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2025, 09:44:44 am »
We already apply Chicago style to capitalization of words in titles, so we do not need to make up new rules for French because they already are under existing rules.

Prince of Persia example is correct.

Baten Kaitos : Les ailes éternelles et l’océan perdu -> Baten Kaitos: Les Ailes Êternelles et l’océan Perdu

with no space before the colon. This space before colon is not limited to French, other languages in EU do it but we will not. However, there is a question to be answered here. If "l’océan perdu" is "the lost ocean" then both of those words should be capitalized, but which is correct for the first one?

l'Océan
L'océan
L'Océan

Crash Bandicoot example should be self evident.

dhaabi

Re: Advanced Style Guide update and feedback thread
« Reply #89 on: March 24, 2025, 10:03:03 am »
We already apply Chicago style to capitalization of words in titles, so we do not need to make up new rules for French because they already are under existing rules.

There are no widespread umbrella rules under the Chicago style across languages with other, Non-English languages having their own standards, which is why I questioned the matter. To my understanding, French titles follow sentence-case formatting according to Chicago. The Chicago manual has updated to its Eighteenth Edition (but requires a paid subscription to access it online), so here is an excerpt from the Seventeenth Edition, though I imagine this section has not changed much, if at all. On page 16, sections 11.27 and 11.28 are worth reading. It seems that the preceding space before a colon ( : ) is optional.